A Ball Too Far? USGA Releases Its 2017 Distance Report
Golf Balls

A Ball Too Far? USGA Releases Its 2017 Distance Report

A Ball Too Far? USGA Releases Its 2017 Distance Report

Seven feet.

The USGA and the R&A released its 2017 Distance Report today, and amidst all the latest hullaballoo about rolling back the ball we find that it’s all about 7 feet, or the length of one NBA pivot man.

There’s a ton of info in the full report, but the gist of it says there was a unusual spike across the Professional board in driving distance in 2017 compared to previous years – an average of 3 yards across the seven worldwide tours, and just over 2.5 yards – or approximately 7 feet – on the PGA Tour.

The report says that while distances have been creeping up slowly since 2003, this across the board spike “requires closer inspection and monitoring to fully understand the causes and effects.”

“As the review of this issue progresses, the USGA and the R&A remain committed to the spirit of the 2002 Joint Statement of Principles, which recognizes that distance impacts many aspects of golf and that any further significant increases in hitting distances at the highest level are undesirable.” – USGA 2017 Distance Report

While we may think this only applies to the Pro’s, another passage in the report may wind up impacting the rest of us:

“Increases in distance can contribute to demands for longer, tougher and more resource-intensive golf courses at all levels of the game. These trends can impact the costs to operate golf courses and put additional pressures on golf courses in their local environmental landscape.”

That seems to say distance may not only be a problem for the pros, golf’s governing bodies seem to be worried that you may be hitting it too far for your 6,000 yard muni.

We’ve written about this issue before, but there’s an awful lot to digest in this report, particularly since nowhere in it does the USGA specifically mention the ball.

as-2017distance

The Numbers Game

The 3-yard distance jump in just one year certainly looks like a statistical outlier, given that previously the 7-tour average distance increased around 0.2 yards per year. The 2017 increases were significant in five of the seven tours (the Japan Tour and Web.com Tour in particular), but it’s important to note the Champions Tour saw a relatively insignificant increase, while the LGPA actually saw a decrease.

While the broad numbers certainly feed the narrative that golfers are hitting it too far, sources tell MyGolfSpy there are several other factors that need to be considered.

On the PGA Tour, data was taken from 41 events in 2017, but only 33 of those events were played on the same courses as 2016. Sources tell MGS that driving distance on those same venues showed only a half a yard increase. What’s more, when you look at stats from the specific players who played those venues in both ’16 and ’17, driving distance actually went down by one full yard.

In addition, when you look at the Majors, driving distance at the Masters was actually down 0.4 yards, but there were huge increases in the other three. Driving distance was up 8.1 yards at the Open Championship at Royal Birkdale and 7 yards at the PGA at Quail Hollow.

The biggest delta, however, was at the US Open.

Jun 15, 2017; Erin, WI, USA; Grandstands at the 18th hole during the first round of the U.S. Open golf tournament at Erin Hills. Mandatory Credit: Rob Schumacher-USA TODAY Sports

Sources tell us the average drive was 20.4 yards longer at Erin Hills compared to Oakmont the year before, primarily due to the fact Oakmont was soaked with rain. All together, these three tournaments made up 42% of the distance gains realized in 2017 on the PGA Tour.

Another factor is Nike exiting the equipment and ball markets. An analysis shows former Nike players picking up an average of 7.1 yards after switching over to new clubs and balls. One player picked up over 15 yards for the year simply by changing gear.

The USGA doesn’t drill down this deeply, but it does look at driving distance from the PGA, PGA Champions, Web.com, European, Japan, LGPA and Ladies European tours. The data measures distance on two holes per tournament where players are virtually certain to use driver. The USGA pays particular attention to the PGA and European Tour stats, since that’s where the true bombers reside, but the 2017 data is based on nearly 300,000 drives across all seven Tours.

Distance Report - 2

The holes used to create the data are oriented in opposite directions to take wind into account, and they like to use flat holes to minimize downhill or uphill slopes. And of course, they select holes where golfers are almost certainly going to use driver.

What all this tells us is that while yes, the USGA numbers show an unusual spike in distance, the deeper you dive into the numbers, the more a case can be made for course setup and weather conditions having more of a say in distance than equipment, at least for Pro’s.

But what about the rest of us?

typical golfer guy

Pros Vs. Joes

Sources at various ball OEMs confirm what we already know – lots of factors go into distance beyond just the ball.

“It’s not the ball at all,” says Dean Snell, who cites equipment improvements, player fitness and course conditions as equal factors.

“Balls run in fairways forever,” he says. “Try softer courses and tighter fairways and a little thicker rough for the one week the tour plays, and see what happens to driver distance. When that tournament is over, cut the rough and let the rest of us play and enjoy the game.”

The USGA and R&A both state they are “steadfastly committed to ensuring a sustainable and enjoyable future for golf.” One could argue that shorter courses for recreational golfers may be suffering due to increased distance, but it would be a pretty weak argument.

“These numbers don’t indicate there’s any effect on the average golfer,” says Frank Simonutti, Wilson’s Director of Golf Ball Innovation. “To make any decision on golf ball performance based upon test results of ONLY top players would be a step to make the game more difficult for the average player.”

As cited above, the USGA is concerned that distance increases may lead to “longer, tougher and more resource-intensive golf courses at all levels of the game,” and may impact the costs those courses may have to incur, and – left unsaid – pass on to the golfer. One source suggests there’s simply no evidence to support that conclusion, nor is there any evidence to support it’s actually harming the game on a recreational level, especially since the USGA’s own statistics indicate very little change in driving distance for amateurs studied in the UK dating back to 1996.

Add to that the joint USGA/PGA TEE IT FOWARD campaign, which in essence asks golfers to swallow their egos and move up a tee box. That simply doesn’t jibe with distance increases leading to “longer, tougher and more resource-intensive golf courses at all levels of the game.”

tee it forward

Deep Data Dive

Data can be funny stuff. If you strictly adhere to the Scientific Method, you make no conclusions  ahead of time and go where the data tells you to go. That methodology, however, pretty much requires you to have no skin in the game and no agenda. The increased rumbling over the past few months about distance and ball rollbacks, combined with today’s report, makes you wonder about timing and just who might benefit from a roll back.

Of course, it could be the USGA pulling a Dean Wormer and declaring no more fun of any kind in the name of protecting the integrity of the game.

But still, we’re talking about 2-and-a-half yards – or seven feet – on average for the very best golfers in the world. Justin, Dustin and Lexi are freakish athletes, and they’re not alone. “They’re just really good at what they do,” says Dean Snell. “They’re younger and understand stretching and fitness better. They also understand launch angles and spin rates on every club, and have access to technology to improve just by changing loft or shaft,”

But if this rolling back the ball idea continues to steamroll, and if a rolled back ball is Tour-only, whom would it benefit? Consider last month’s AT&T Pro-Am at Pebble Beach; Dustin Johnson averaged 313 yards off the tee, while Ted Potter, Jr averaged 283. Despite a 30-yard disadvantage off the tee, Potter won by three strokes because he hit fairways and greens on a course that’s not all that long but does have the smallest greens on Tour.

ted potter

It’s a small sample, but it leads to one conclusion and one question: First is even if you do roll back the ball, Dustin Johnson is going to hit it a hell of a lot farther than Ted Potter, Jr. And second, with a rolled back ball, does Potter still win that tournament if he’s hitting even longer shots into the green than DJ, Phil, Jason Day or Chez Reavie? It sure would seem a shorter ball rewards the longer hitter.

Perhaps the USGA and R&A are worried classic venues, such at Pebble or St. Andrews, might become obsolete for pro events. But Pebble Beach showed a short knocker could beat a field of bombers, and if you compare last year’s US Open at the 7,800 yard Erin Hills to the 2013 US Open at Merion at 6,900 yards, you could easily conclude the longer you make the course, the more you actually do favor the bombers. Justin Rose won at Merion with a score of 1-over, while Brooks Koepka won at Erin Hills with a record-tying 16-under.

A quote from today’s distance report perhaps gives some direction – maybe not the direction the USGA wants, but direction nonetheless:

“History has proven that it is impossible to foresee the developments in golf equipment which advancing technology will deliver. While generally welcoming this progress…the R&A and USGA (are) committed to remaining vigilant when considering equipment Rules to protect golf’s best traditions, to prevent an over-reliance on technological advances rather than skill, and to ensure that skill is the dominant element of success throughout the game.” – USGA 2017 Distance Report

I don’t think anyone who loves the game can disagree with that sentiment, but the statistical spike from 2016 to 2017 is certainly curious, but explainable. It is important to note, as is shown in the report itself, that between 2004 and today there has been relative stability in both ball technology and equipment technology regulations.

Driving Distance 4

And not for nothing, hitting the ball a long way is also a skill, is it not?

But the question remains, does seven feet worth of additional distance in one year mean golf has a distance problem? Courses setup is clearly a better solution than rolling back the ball, but who foots that bill? If you’re a real conspiracy theorist, you might think the USGA and R&A don’t want their premier properties on the hook for changing their courses, and would rather stick OEM’s with the tab for developing a limited flight ball, or is there something even more sinister going on? It’s hard to imagine that golf really has that dark of a Dark Side?

“There’s a huge problem if one company is awarded a tournament ball contract for the tour for a year,” says Snell. “All the endorsement money is gone, but manufacturers have to now pay to create research and tooling to supply a ball to the Tour that nobody in the consumer world would want to buy. No wants to pay $50.00 per dozen for the ball Justin Thomas uses that’s 30 yards shorter.”

It’s easy to dismiss this as a Tour-only issue that doesn’t affect the millions of us who play golf just for fun, but the economics of any kind of a roll back will more than likely impact our enjoyment of the game. While the USGA and R&A are careful to point out continuing analysis of the “impacts of increased distance on both the playing and overall health of golf,” and that all stakeholders will be involved, one does have to wonder if this is another brick in the wall of a conclusion that’s already been reached.

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John Barba

John Barba

John Barba

John is an aging, yet avid golfer, writer, 6-point-something handicapper living back home in New England after a 22-year exile in Minnesota. He loves telling stories, writing about golf and golf travel, and enjoys classic golf equipment. “The only thing a golfer needs is more daylight.” - BenHogan

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      Smudger

      6 years ago

      Tighten up the courses and let them look for their own balls when they hit it wild. Two things that would make them think twice before reaching for the Driver. Who gives a monkeys how wild you are when you have a bevvy of people looking for the ball(Spieth at the Open last year).

      Reply

      JohnnyA

      6 years ago

      Watching the pros bomb them is fun.. As a 70 year old with average for age swing speed I enjoy the benefits of my current Calaway driver and ball combo.

      I you want o see the pros struggle, and I enjoy that too, plant some trees, narrow the fairways,, grow the rough, soften the fairways, speed up the greens, mow the fairways higher ad nauseam.

      There are plenty of ways to deal with this concocted issue if you must. For heavens sake lets not let Jack Nicklaus’ ego dictate the common golfers weekly experience.

      Reply

      Gary Sohosky

      6 years ago

      I’m a 60 year old PGA golf professional and last year I played around 4 or 5 9 hole rounds of golf following major back surgery 6 months prior. I hit several tee shots around 290 yards during those rounds. Admittedly I was a pretty long hitter in my youth, having the longest hole in one in the US at 360 yards in 1976, but this seems to be almost unimaginable. I’m actually hitting the ball as far or farther than I was 20 years ago. And I’m very far from my physical prime, having had two major back surgeries and a botched knee replacement in the past 10 years. How can anyone say that they’re not bothered by tour players routinely hitting 2 irons/driving irons over 300 yards and tee shots over 350 yards? Even 500 yard par 4’s are a driver and a 9 iron or wedge today. When I was younger a 460 yard par 4 was a beast and required even long hitters to hit 3, 4 and 5 irons for second shots, not wedges and sand wedges. Tour players today rarely hit long irons to par fives, much less par fours! There’s a reason major league baseball doesn’t use aluminum bats and baseballs are made the same way they always were. Golf should take a lesson from baseball in that regard and make skill, not technology, the most important part of any sport. There’s nothing wrong with helping all golfers hit the ball straighter but the ball is without question, going too far. End of discussion.

      Reply

      NEF

      6 years ago

      The scientific method starts with a hypothesis, then empirical data that either proves, modifies or disproves the hypothesis. The PGA method is come to a conclusion in the locker room and the bar, then manipulate the data to fit and support that which has already been decided. Result is not just faulty decisions, it is setting off an unwitting total disregard of all of the rules of golf.

      We already know that amateurs observe some rules, most rules and the rules as they understand them. The ball rule which might possibly make sense for the pro tour and single digit golfers. The rest of us can’t get the distance we need. “Move up a tee” sounds good, but push moving up a tee if we already hit it too far? PGA logic at work.

      What will happen in the real world where I play is that golfers will push up the price of newly non-conforming balls and continue to play the same ball they always have. Amateurs are constantly looking for more distance to tame courses from 6,000 to 7,000 yards. I have never heard a golfer say they hit the ball too far from the tee box other than a par three. Over hits are a result of golfer lack of confidence and choosing a longer club than needed.

      This is just another step in a total disregard for all rules and decorum that made golf what it is. A game of self-control, self-management and self-enforcement. It is supposed to be a game of integrity where any cheating (excuse, inadvertent ignoring of the rules) hurts no one but the cheater. If you are playing with friends for pleasure and cheat, they will know and even if they don’t say anything, that is your forever reputation. If you play for business and cheat, you are simply telling your partner you can’t be trusted in business. If you are playing in a tournament and don’t get caught, you can never take real pride in the “victory”. This “rule” may be different. Virtually all amateur golfers will spit in the face of the PGA and play a ball that breaks the rules. Once any rule is universally ignored, the slippery slope has begun to pick and choose what you want to honor. Golf tradition and what the game is supposed to teach – self-respect, integrity, honor, fair competition – disappears.

      I may as well start stocking up now. Chromasoft, E-6+, etc. Used and new, I need a new closet just to store my cheating ball. (Not good enough to need ProV’s).

      Of course, the PGA could in a flash of intelligence recognize that many sports discriminate between amateurs and professionals in rules and/or equipment. College and pro leagues are a prime example.

      Reply

      nef

      6 years ago

      Sorry. I obviously meant the USGA not PGA. Of course, I dropped out of the USGA years ago when I recognized that it only represented blue-bloods, blue-noses and their “own”kind, not actual golfers in the public, semi-private and real worlds where most of us actually play.

      Reply

      James T

      6 years ago

      Roll the USGA back. Seriously, when all the dust settles I am sure the USGA and R&A will do the right thing and leave the ball alone. However, it would be interesting to have bifurcation where the tour gear remains the same and research and development is unleashed on gear and golf balls for the masses.

      Reply

      DMM

      6 years ago

      … so that when the marketing for that new, shiny driver is released it really does go 20 yards further!

      Reply

      PA Golfer

      6 years ago

      USGA and R&A go home; you’re drunk:

      – tv viewership will suffer. The only compelling aspect for non-golfers is big drives.
      – course setup can dictate distance and score more than anything. Put the energy there.
      – what golf fan ever stopped watching a major because the bombers were scoring too well?
      – how many top tier tournaments do the USGA and R&A actually run? Is it two? Why does anyone care about their rules
      – grooves and belly puttters were total rule change failures. These organizations don’t have a track record that indicates they know how to effectively legislate the game.

      Reply

      Jimmy Adamson

      6 years ago

      , who cares if the tour pros make very low scores, it adds to the “wow” factor. Secondly, think of the cost and time involved to re rate all the courses (worldwide) for handicap purposes. Lastly, it is exactly these huge drives by the pro’s which promote sales of new drivers, clubs etc. so really its good for business.

      Reply

      JonD

      6 years ago

      What I want to know is who the heck are those 8% of you that want to play a ball that goes 20% shorter?

      Really!!!

      Reply

      Art

      6 years ago

      That isn’t what the question asked. Really!!!

      Reply

      PJ

      6 years ago

      How is this any different than any other sport? Records are broken by stronger and faster athletes every year. Golf is no different. The fitness level, strength and flexibility – coupled with advanced training – has led to new distances. The USGA has standards for the clubs and balls, yet a small percentage of super-players exceed that. So what? What’s next?? Make football fields 120 yards? Olympic pools 55 meters long? Or the only 3-point shot that counts will be from the mid-court line?!?
      USGA – I didn’t renew this year and won’t. Make the game more playable and affordable for the masses – stop worrying about the Top .001% of golfers in the world!!

      Reply

      Mike

      5 years ago

      The other sports rely solely on the athlete’s physical gifts and training, and while golf does as well, it is much more equipment and technology biased.

      A 120 yard football field doesn’t matter when the football hasn’t changed in a century. Only improvements with equipment have been cleats which have a ceiling.

      A 55 meter swimming pool has no bearing in this argument because no equipment is used in Olympic swimming, unless you are counting speedos and goggles.

      For the 3 – Point line… again the ball hasn’t changed since it’s inception. Sneakers haven’t changed since their inception… This is the only “equipment” used is BBall.

      Honestly the only comparable sports are baseball and tennis, in which their equipment hasn’t changed either with the exception of Baseball forbidding aluminum and for good reason. No one wants to see 20 home runs a game.

      I am 30 years old and hate seeing these courses get demolished by golf technology. 5% of golf courses close each year. Why do you think that is?

      Price!

      And what increases price?

      Bills!

      And what increase bills?

      Land!

      The more golf courses expand to compete with ball and club technology the more the prices go up and the more we recreational golfers suffer. Everyone wants to go out and shoot like the pros do. So golf courses give golfers the same kind of courses the pros play. the 7,000 yard minimum yardage.

      Making the courses harder by increasing rough length, hazards, and making approaches harder will only hurt recreational golfers.

      If you scale every pro back by 20 yards, then Joe Shmo won’t care about that 215 yard drive because Jordan Spieth, Justin Rose, and Tony Finau are only hitting it 260.

      Regardless of regulation the pros will still compete with each other. It just won’t be at -18 and -25 under for a round. it will be -4 and -9!

      How terrible that would be.

      /sarcasm

      Reply

      Jim C

      6 years ago

      Fairway bunkers will slow them all down

      Reply

      Julian

      6 years ago

      I don’t know what the big deal is. These people don’t control me or my game if I don’t compete in tournaments. The ball manufactures will continue to trip over themselves to make a longer ball that I will buy.They will call it a rec ball, and also a tour ball.Make your choice. Its all about the dollar. I went to graphite from steel shafts and regained some distance I lost due to age, same ball. I notice the pros use graphite in their woods, not steel. It’s not all about the ball.

      Reply

      Kenny B

      6 years ago

      The majority seem to think that the USGA and R&A position of rolling back the ball is a bad idea. Our comments here have no weight and sending in comments to the USGA probably isn’t going to change their already-made-up minds. Vote with your USGA membership… cancel it.

      Reply

      Thomas Green

      6 years ago

      This is as ridiculous as the NFL Catch rule fiasco or MLB wanting to install a pitch clock.

      As has been said above, there are many factors that are causing tour pros to hit it further. The golf ball may be the least of them. Pros are getting stronger and more flexible the driver heads are more adjustable and way lower spinning, the fairways on tour are as firm and fast as the greens on the local muni. If the tour wants to limit distance all they really need to do is adjust the fairway width in the pros landing zone. This will reward extreme accuracy with length but will cause many to take 3 wood or hybrid in an attempt to hit into a wider landing zone. Another way would be to…I dunno put some dang water on the fairways and soften them up. Take your pick.

      The real downside would be not for the pros but for the average joe. I happen to hit it far but I play weekly with amateurs who cant hit it out of their own shadow. Shortening the ball flight will make many local muni courses frankly unplayable for them. Then, there they go, away from a game that is no longer any fun.

      Get this idea out of your head USGA and R&A. Remember that the future of the game depends less on the Pros than it does on the weekend hack.

      Reply

      Scoot24

      6 years ago

      I agree and want to add that if the game is less enjoyable for us hacks many will quit playing and therefore defeat the purpose of the OEM’s making their products better. If less people play then less sales no matter how great their sponsored golfers perform.

      Reply

      Gregor

      6 years ago

      Lets face it, most major sports have amended rules to stop technology spoiling the game. Baseball banned the metal bat, as did cricket, Tennis has slowed down the ball. The fact that golf has been allowed technology to reign unchecked is madness. The great courses of the world are being spoilt and rendered obsolete by the ball and club manufacturers in their endless pursuit to sell product.

      Plus, in an article about technology being reigned in, the views quoted are from a ball manufacturer, and some professionals who are sponsored massively by equipment manufacturers. The bias due to personal interest by both groups is insane.

      Also, the increase year on year is interesting, but much more important is to look at the total distance increase. Its as near as damn it 50 yards, and that is taking into account that most long hitters don;t even use driver off the tee anymore. That is a massive increase, and mostly due to the unchecked advancement of technology.

      Reign the ball technology in, and have distance styled balls aligned with tee boxes (red, white, blue, black, and tour). St Andrews has remained relevant for over 500 years. Why are we messing around with that in the last 30 due to the commercial interests of the equipment manufacturers.

      Reply

      gargolfpa

      6 years ago

      A long time ago when I was young I was considered a long baller. Hitting on the screws, yes actual screws in the club face, was the way to get distance. Shafts were steel with a seam in the back. Yes I am an old f##t. I could out drive my father by 20-30 yards. He killed me every time, 1-2-3 chip-ins a round. Do I enjoy the juiced clubs and balls, yes, but I would much rather play a strategic course with real risks and rewards, not just hit it as far as you can. Make rewards high and the risks penal. If the pros want to just bomb it down a 4 lane highway, let them, I won’t be watching. I never get their roll or spin on the greens. I play soft fairways and concrete greens and I still love it. USGA should make common sense rules for golf not to change golf, get rid of the unfair ones that slow play. Walk back to the tee for a lost ball on a blind shot into the sun, I think not. A movable object is a 1 ton bolder only 10+ can move, how about only a stone the golfer can move, those over 65 get 1 other person to help. Putt on greens that can be measured by a ruler not a micrometer, putting slow greens is harder than fast. A score can’t be posted unless you have a witness, quick fact no caddie is going to tell a player to up their score, sandbaggers will always figure out how to game the system and what ever happened to golf being an honorable sport Love the old school, bombers in the bushes and ball strikers in the ‘kinda’ short stuff.

      The USGA needs to get back to reasonable compensated management sitting in leather chairs, smoking cigars and not bothering us, who just want to play golf and not be uninvited to some small tournament because we don’t believe in or faithfully follow the USGA rule book.

      Sorry for the rant. “I ‘m mad as he!! and I’m not going to take it anymore”!!! (credit Network -the movie)

      Reply

      Richard Amberg

      6 years ago

      It is all about speed and form and skill. As the players become more fit and as they practice more and more to become more proficient, the obvious result is that a driven ball goes further. Some eighty years ago when my mother was a woman’s club champion, she got to know many of the professional golfers and according to her they were a pack of playboys who did most of their practice at the 19th Hole. Not so today. Tiger really changed the game with his dedication and fitness and it surely appears that the pro golfers of today have followed his example. Look at “Lefty” winning in Mexico last week. He is almost 50 but is fit and strong and what he misses in muscle mass and tone he makes up with skill. It is not the ball, nor the club alone or together that makes up the advancement in ball driven length; rather it is the player that makes the difference in today’s high level of pro golf. Lastly, many of those 300+ drivers are not in the fairway at all! You are so correct when you mentioned that being in the fairway consistently is the focal point, not the giant drive. Long drives help but the reality of it all comes down to wedge play and putting. Period. End of the story.

      Reply

      AndyM

      6 years ago

      I think the replies so far can be summarised as:

      1) Any increase last year by pros was small suggesting at the very least the trend should be monitored further before decisions made.

      2)if the PGA / R&A really want to take action it should be to limit the pros when on tour and not the amateurs – especially remembering the increasing average age of amateurs. Anything that affects a large number of amateurs could be really counterproductive to the game as a whole.

      3) if they really must introduce a limit then first consider the ball. This makes it simple and something easy to apply. It would only affect the amateurs who have more money than sense that pay these huge sums per ball currently

      Reply

      Mike Reed

      6 years ago

      I think it is time for the USGA to spend some money and build a series of 8500-9000 yard long courses that will really challenge the long hitters. These could be used for the US Open and the PGA and would be the toughest courses in the world!! The par 4 holes would be at least 500 yards, the par 5 holes 700+ yards, and the par 3 holes 250 – 300 yards long. The greens would be multi-level monsters that are 15-18 stimpmeter reading.

      Quit complaining about the ball and other equipment improvements and meet the challenge with better courses!!

      Reply

      Mike

      5 years ago

      This is the most ludicrous suggestion I have ever seen. So instead of limiting the equipment and capping technology (which would keep equipment and ball prices the SAME for us and pros) you want to increase the average golf course length by 50%?

      Yes I said AVERAGE golf course length. Because that’s what will happen. Fans and golfers want to play what the pros play so municipal and club courses will try to keep up. Which will drive prices up by… probably 50%!

      So you take the average cost of a $36 round and make it $54. No thanks! 5% of golf courses already close every year because golf is “too expensive.”

      Limit the distance the ball and clubs create, and everyone ism happy. including the local 5600 yard muni!

      Reply

      TonyG

      6 years ago

      From someone who has maintained tour courses, there are other factors when it comes to distance. Behind the scenes, they want hard fast surfaces, not only on the greens, but fairways as well. The governing bodies feel that a hard fast fairway will allow the straight hitters to gain distance, while the long/slightly offline hitters will run into the rough. While this may help even the playing field a bit, the end result is more distance, regardless of equipment.

      As mentioned, this leads to great older venues to become obsolete. Most of them are land locked and can’t expand or must rob land otherwise used for galleries, sponsors and practice facilities. The end result is, the tournament moves to a modern facility.

      Reply

      Gordon

      6 years ago

      I said something similar in my post below yesterday.
      I agree 100% Tony.
      Hard fast fairways….. soften them up, it’ll minimize the roll, and all of a sudden some of these guys aren’t as long.

      Also, I don’t know if the tour theory you describe above actually holds true on tour. I mean, even the “not as accurate” guys are REALLY accurate.
      But that is on the tour and how they want things set up.
      Pretty cool you’ve worked on tour courses man.

      Reply

      DL

      6 years ago

      This just shows how biased and out of touch the USGA is. Can you imagine all the oldtimers and ladies especially having to lose 20% of their distance? How much more time would you need on the course? You’d be adding a shot to every hole. Talk about going backwards. These are elite athletes doing elite things with elite training and elite equipment, what did you think was going to happen? Why pick on the ball?

      Reply

      Woody

      6 years ago

      I feel like the USGA have already made the decision that they will be reigning in the distance the golf ball goes.

      It feels like they are building a rhetoric to convince the golfing populous that this is the right decision, I for one do not agree.

      Reply

      Bruce

      6 years ago

      Suck it up: the USGA already made the decision to change the ball and this report along with related discussions is just eyewash.
      The processs reminds me of the last USGA “improvement “ banning anchored putting which was revenge on belly putters and long putters I stopped financial support (no membership) They understand money; make your money talk.

      Reply

      Mike

      6 years ago

      So averages contain and high and low number, I’m wondering if the longer players are getting that much longer or are the shorter hitters catching up to them and closing the gap.

      Reply

      Peter

      6 years ago

      There is a very simple way to put limits on the pros and tournament amateurs.

      Leave the ball specs alone except for the cover – revert to balata (e.g. Titleist Professional) which is much more susceptible to sidespin and limit driver shafts to 43″. The majority of us would probably do better with non Tour balls even if our egos think we should play what DJ or TW play.

      At 74 years of age and 6 handicap I’ve played golf for 66 years with everything from hickory shafts as a small boy through the latest and greatest. Golf courses were nowhere near in as good condition as they are now but the game was fantastic then as it now – however, once we get used to innovation it’s very difficult to take it away without an uproar. This is similar to the absolutely stupid issue between the USGA and Ping on “square” grooves – lots of money wasted and nothing gained by either the administrators, the industry or the golfing public.

      If they want to show intent, freeze all specs as they are now with an annual update to take into account the improvement in athleticism in the professional game.

      Reply

      Dennis Beach

      6 years ago

      I say let the pros play with the exact same equipment and balls as the rest of us hackers. Have to stop with all these “prototype” clubs and balls that we will never see. Have the pros pick something off the rack and get fitted just like we do. And while we are at it, lets stop with all this “flex face/power slot” stuff. It’s enough that we have adjustable clubs. Level the equipment playing field. Don’t need to have 5-6 new drivers come out every year. If Joe Duffer is really out there buying a new driver every year, then I think he really has a problem with his game, and the answer won’t be found in new equipment, like the mfg’s. want you to think. And in defense of the pros, this is their job, and if all we did was play golf, we would be pretty good also. Personally, I think the tech has gone about as far as it should be “allowed” to go.

      Reply

      DMM

      6 years ago

      Why, just yesterday I saw Justin Thomas at Dick’s buying tees.

      Reply

      Brian R

      6 years ago

      Strikes me as strange that Jack Nicklaus should be such an advocate of reducing the ball distance. In his hey day he was the one who benefitted from being the longest driver out there. A bit hypocritical methinks Mr Nicklaus.

      Reply

      Kenny B

      6 years ago

      Everyone weighing in on this topic has an agenda. Methinks that Jack’s agenda is preserving his records for a little longer.

      Reply

      Ibo

      6 years ago

      What a lot of people is missing is why the heck guys with a 120Mph SS are playing 6,500 yard courses, while the rest are playing 6,000 yard courses with an average 90Mph SS. These guys are playing par 5’s hitting 7-8 as second shot and driving par 4’s from time to time, yet the average Joe has to play a 200 yard par 3 with a 3w and hit a perfect driver + 3w to get to a par 5 in 2, possibly not even getting there.

      Tour conditions are getting easier because tech and training are rendering old courses unfitted for tour pros. If the hcp of the average Joe is not going down with a so called “long flying ball” how in God’s name are you going to limit the ball when you can’t reach a par 3 with a metal wood. It is plainly absurd.

      Reply

      Steve

      6 years ago

      “Mama says, Stupid is as stupid does.” – Forrest Gump.

      This is the most ridiculous discussion. Most golfers can’t hit it far enough, and Golf, along with skiing, is a sport with declining participation. Just when equipment advances are finally helping struggling amateurs to hit driver 200 yds you want to make it harder? And don’t get me started on bifurcation.. talk about a non starter.

      The time to discuss the ball distance or equipment limitations is so long past to be a joke at this point, and are irrelevant anyway. Courses like Pebble Beach show that appropriate course set up can deal with the issue of long hitting pros just fine. Stop setting up courses to flatter the big hitters (generous fairways that run 8 or 9 on the stimp) etc and make the rough penalize misses .. and yes! just like it is for the rest of us, proportionately, we’ll all enjoy watching good strategic play as opposed to bomb & gouge shows.

      Reply

      James T

      6 years ago

      Golf and skiing. Huge expense when considering greens fees and lift tickets. Though both are played in beautiful spaces. Baseball… find a vacant field, tennis… free, well-kept city courts. Basketball… all you need is a 10 foot hoop and net. Ice hockey… the nearest frozen pond. Football… free fields everywhere.

      Reply

      TR1PTIK

      6 years ago

      Just finished reading that Acushnet reached the same (or at least very similar) conclusion that you guys did. The USGA is manipulating the data to adhere to their own agenda. Whatever the endgame is here, it certainly is not meant to benefit the average golfer who has not seen a significant increase in distance in probably 20 years or more.

      Reply

      Bob Pegram

      6 years ago

      Decades ago Gary Player used a combination of equipment (longer clubs) and exceptional physical condition to hit the ball with the big hitters even though he was smaller. Now the big guys are doing the same thing. Why penalize everybody because of their work ethic?!
      Hey Jack!: Gary Player now hits it far past you. Are you going to penalize him too? He and the current top players on the PGA Tour are in better condition than you ever were!

      Reply

      Kenny B

      6 years ago

      I like to see the pros hit long drives. Why would I want to see them hit it shorter? I thought the game of golf was about scoring… not how far someone hits the ball.

      The Vardon Trophy is awarded by the PGA of America to the PGA Tour’s leader in scoring average. In the past 25 years the winners of the Vardon Trophy have almost all been between 68-69 (OK, Tiger had a few years below 68). DJ won in 2016 with one of the highest scoring averages at 69.17 Long hitters and short hitters have won the pardon Trophy.

      If the golf ball is flying too far, why isn’t the scoring average going down?

      Reply

      Art

      6 years ago

      The scoring average is down.

      Reply

      Tom Noel

      6 years ago

      I am 63. Losing distance every day. Still occasionally I can blow it over a bunker, 220 yards, WOW! or on a 500 yard par 5, driver, 3 wood and maybe just maybe putt for eagle, just like the Big Boys! Lose that much distance, no more of that, no more fun, for me no more golf!

      Reply

      Kenny B

      6 years ago

      Oh swell! Now we will have a bunch of seniors (myself included) and ladies playing an extra shot into almost every hole. That should add another hour to each round. To compensate, nearly every golf course will have to add at least one more tee box on every hole, but since that costs money… they won’t do it.

      Reply

      Dave

      6 years ago

      Where did a 20% reduction come from? The pros average 292.5. A 20% reduction would take the pros back to a 234 yd average. In 1968 pros averaged 255 yds. So a 20% reduction would roll back driving distances to the 1940-50s. Why couldn’t it be rolled back 10%? That would result in a 263 yd average which rolls it back to 1995. Or even 8%, which would be 269 yd average and approximately 1998. And more importantly 8% takes the top pro drivers from averaging close to 330 yds and puts them around 300 yds – so we would be back to the days of a 300 yd drive being impressive instead of routine.

      Do I love the idea of a losing 8% personally? Not really as it would cost me about 20 yards. It probably means I have to hit more driver instead of 3w. And it definitely means I hit more 5i approaches instead of 7i, but an 8% reduction wouldn’t fundamentally change my golf game like a 20% reduction would.

      Reply

      Rod_CCCGOLFUSA

      6 years ago

      The year 2000 marks the high point of equipment innovation and increased distance, yet driver companies annually claim astounding distance gains. It’s the ball, Earnest.

      Reply

      Al Vermeil

      6 years ago

      Let’s look at other sports and the advancements they have made. In 1936 Jesse Owens 100 m in the Olympic Games in 10.3. That was on dirt track or cinder, no starting blocks and the old shoes. Canadian sprinter told Andre De Grasse who has a personal best of 9.92 in the hundred meters. He tried to duplicate Jesse Owens 10.3 in the same conditions and ran 11 flat hand timed. So, using the logic of some people of slowing the golf ball down then we should return to the same conditions that Jesse Owens ran.

      If you look at the evolution of the football over time it’s become thinner and thinner to promote the forward pass. What if baseball went back to the dead ball and you lead the league in home runs with 15 to 20.

      The golfers today are bigger stronger, equipment is fitted to their swing via track man or flight scope. All the science and technology to evaluate what goes on in the swing and the modern coach ability to apply this technology. All this leads to greater club head speed and a more consistent swing. Wait until someone 6’8” decides to play golf instead of basketball or be a wide receiver or tight end. Then the distance will increase again.

      I know they’re concerned about the courses becoming too long and not having enough property. If you want to make it harder for the pros, every time they hit a spectator or the grandstands behind the hole, make it a one-shot penalty like a lateral hazard. Because when the average player plays there are no fans and no man-made grandstands. Grow the rough and don’t cut the fair grass so short.

      As a fan I’d rather see them it is 350. Dustin Johnson didn’t win a major until he improved his wedge play in putting. So just because your long hitter you still need a complete game.

      Reply

      Gary Reed

      6 years ago

      Very insightful. Like your thinking.

      Reply

      Rand Feura

      6 years ago

      Bifurcation would be acceptable to me though the pros would probably have something to say about it. Tradition? The governing bodies must know that bashing it a couple times and sticking it in the cup is what elicits the oohs and ahhs (read “money”). Knowing their length off the tee, a pro knows when its necessary to pull a fairway wood instead of a driver to increase accuracy and avoid trouble. But if you mess with MY clubs and balls, removing a measure of joy and creating slower play, well, you just take the wind out of my sails. I may play less. I may watch less too

      Reply

      Lewis Daff

      6 years ago

      Where do you draw the line though? Would club pros be required to play a limited ball in a pro-am event? How about high level amateurs: limited or not? And then take into account that better amateurs might then need two different balls dependent on the level of events they’d play in – I wouldn’t be particularly happy if buying new balls cost me £90/$120/100€ instead of the normal price.

      Reply

      Walt Pendleton

      6 years ago

      If a golf courses become obsolete for tour play, that’s no big deal…tell them to go play a longer track or lengthen the golf courses they play! Personally, the average go’fer needs better equipment, longer balls and more birdies! Lets keep making the game more fun because improved performance equals more golfers and that’s a wonderful thing for everybody…even the idiots that think the minority should over rule the majority on this subject! Wake up America

      Reply

      Jim Fitzroy

      6 years ago

      I’ve read some of the report and they indicate the average male hits the driver 203 yards and the average woman drives it 146.

      A perfect time for bifurcation of the rules. USGA and PGA tour events played with a scaled back ball and let the vast majority enjoy the ball they feel bests fits their game and/or budget

      Jim, the retired GC Superintendent

      Reply

      Tom Kelly

      6 years ago

      I’m 74 and been playing for 67 years. I played Big Ten college golf, tried to qualify for the US Open and US Amateur, won club and senior club championships. Bifurcation affects far more than the PGA or any of the aspirant tours. Consider a seven year old starting out. He has to start with the shorter ball. All high school competitions will be with the shorter ball. All college competition will be with that shorter ball. All golf associations that associate with the USGA will demand their tournaments use that shorter ball. What kind of driving range balls will the ranges stock? What happens in your local course events? Will all have to play the shorter ball? I think so. The USGA is staffed with a lot of smart people who, periodically, make some truly stupid decisions. Think grooves and anchoring. But if the R&A and the USGA demand bifurcation, the game will be truly hurt.

      Reply

      Steve Stewart

      6 years ago

      Why would juniors, or high schooler’s have to use a shorter ball? NCAA players too while we’re at it. Think composite/aluminium bats for lower levels/wooden bats in MLB. To me it is a great solution.

      mackdaddy

      6 years ago

      Wtf… My drives would go down to 220 yds. Then I need to add at least one club to reach the green. The courses aren’t going to get shorter.
      they need to keep that sh!t for the tour and leave us out of it. Most of the men I know that golf, 75%, are over 50 and not getting longer anytime soon! The driver distance is nearly maxed out already, over the last 5 years the top drivers you have tested have not varied much from years to year. The PGA Tour may have a distance issue but golf does NOT!!!

      Reply

      Jerry

      6 years ago

      I agree the big boys are hitting it too far. All the USGA needs to do is throttle back the ball. Then just get out of the way of any equipment not legal for tour or USGS competition. In other words have a list of approved gear, balls and clubs. Golf equipment makers would then be free to make stuff for the rest of us with no restraints! Balls that go a mile and clubs with anti-rotational club faces and auto-glide soles with machete rails! Unlock the entrepreneurial spirit of free enterprise. Why would I play a tour ball and a tour driver if unfettered clubs and balls were allowed? Everyone is looking at this backwards. Why make the average golfer play equipment that the USGA says we must? And hell, moving up to forward tees makes many tracks more difficult to play in many cases. Lakes and narrow fairways we can’t reach from the middle tee are now in play. Some of the courses I play we purposely move back to avoid problems. I’d rather hit 5-irons from the fairway than 8-iron behind a tree. Beware what you ask for.

      Reply

      Nocklaus

      6 years ago

      The thing is, that I dont think it would. It’s not all about the driver. You have to think about your second shot … The bombers hit their second shot farther aswell.

      Reply

      Regis

      6 years ago

      Yeah. That’s overlooked. It’s not just the driver. The pros are hitting 7 irons 250 yards and using gap wedges on 160 yard par 3s. I realize lofts are jacked but still.

      Reply

      Mark Blair

      6 years ago

      The ball should be the same for all, amateur and pro alike, but it needs to be monitored to a standard closer to the 1970s – 1980’s. If modern golfers are hitting farther because they are better trained and conditioned then fine, but they shouldn’t have a hotter ball to distort the game. Many of the posts here appear to focus on personal ego and results. If you are old enough to have played with real wood “woods,” some of this is almost funny. It took skill to hit those things. The manufacturers have done about all they can do with metal wood technology. They really need a retro idea like banning metal woods — then they could sell all of us the latest persimmon technology. It might even even help solve the ball problem. lol

      Reply

      Dave Mc Feely

      6 years ago

      Has everybody forgotten why they have a handicap?. Accuracy should be the aim not distance . Better to be 6 inches from pin than 20 feet or yards over the back

      Reply

      Jeff

      6 years ago

      Leave the ball alone. I had to retire my belly putter because it gave some tour pros an unfair advantage. Please quit trying to make a hard game harder because of a few really gifted players. keep the enjoyment in golf.

      Reply

      Paul Schille

      6 years ago

      Agreed. I’m nearly 60 years old, play a lot of golf, and my handicap’s gone up three strokes since I had to give up my belly putter. Given I don’t make a dime playing this game, if they make the game any harder it may be time to find a new hobby.

      Reply

      Brian C

      6 years ago

      I’ve seen some action over the years and one thing I’ve yet to see expressed is just how tight fairways are compared to yesteryear, Are they really flying the ball much farther or is roll playing a part? It has to be, from what I’ve seen. I play some excellent venues in the greater Phoenix area and rarely see any fairway cuts like I see at TPC Scottsdale during the PGA event event. I watch videos of many of the greats from decades past and dems some hairy fairways, relatively speaking.Maybe I’m naive (I don’t travel the country to play different areas) but it must be a factor to some extent.

      Reply

      Rickp

      6 years ago

      Let the “Powers that be” do what they want with the Pros game but leave me alone. I don’t play on the perfectly manicured tracks that they do. BTW, would Jack be preaching against the ball if he was still playing competitive golf?
      Anyway leave me be.

      Reply

      Robert Dwyer

      6 years ago

      Seriously I’m 69 years old why in hell would I want a shorter ball ? I can still scrape it around fairly well but with a shorter ball I’d find no shame moving up to the next set of tee markers. The best advice I ever got from a teaching Pro was, if you are not comfortable just drop a ball anywhere along the way and play from there (you paid for it)!

      Reply

      JDM

      6 years ago

      This is an incredibly one-sided piece. I’ve no problem with what of the debate you end up on, but please at least read up on some of the perks of a potential rollback (or a bifurcation, a possibility I don’t believe was mentioned) including fewer lost balls, quicker rounds, and decreased costs before deciding against it. And also maybe reconsider the whole “unbiased source” thing. I mean, I do have a Snell Golf banner across the bottom of my screen as I type this…

      Reply

      Duncan Castles

      6 years ago

      ??????

      Reply

      MC Hammer

      6 years ago

      Mike Davis of the USGA (who suffers from a very large ego) wants his legacy to be bifurcation (which should officially be classified as a 4 letter word). So he’s using any means possible to justify his cramming through of some sort of long-lasting action to the rules.
      Would be interested to know if they went into this exercise looking for a specific conclusion and tortured the data until it told the story they wanted to hear. Instead of, as you said Tony, letting the raw data determine where one ends up.

      Reply

      JasonA

      6 years ago

      YES. I would play a ball 20 yards shorter if it made me more competitive against the bombers.

      Reply

      Nocklaus

      6 years ago

      The thing is, that I dont think it would. It’s not all about the driver. You have to think about your second shot … The bombers hit their second shot farther aswell.

      Reply

      Nick

      6 years ago

      It’s not 20 yards it’s a percentage. Lets use 20%.

      300=240
      250=200
      200=160

      So now bombers are only 40 by instead of 50. Anybody loosing that kind of distance is going to look at different hobbies. Some stay but the majority would leave.

      Reply

      chrisk

      6 years ago

      I don’t think they can make a ball that’s 20% (or whatever percentage) shortage over the entire spectrum of golfers. The guy swinging about 100 mph probably doesn’t compress the ball like the guy swinging at 125 mph. The slower swing-speed golfers may not see any difference if the ball was universal. It’s a real question i have, anyway. Whatever they do, it should be limited to the pros (but i do believe they ought to do something, at least at the pro level).

      Robert Dwyer

      6 years ago

      Seriously I’m 69 years old why in hell would I want a shorter ball ? I can still scrape it around fairly well but with a shorter ball I’d find no shame moving up to the next set of tee markers.

      Reply

      Dave Richards

      6 years ago

      Another stupid idea by people who live in Fantasy Land. Amateur golfers want more length, not less, which is why I only play hi-cor drivers.

      Reply

      Mack

      6 years ago

      Very one sided question statement.

      The USGA is addressing the 40 yard spike in tour yardage which mostly occurred from 1980-2002. It occurred because of many factors, graphite shafts, titanium spring like heads, multi layer low spinning balls, launch monitors, stronger athletes.
      The USGA were asleep at the wheel as the manufacturers engineered around the rules that were there to protect the game.
      The USGA were testing in 2002 at 109 mph with Iron Byron when tour professionals were swinging up to 124 mph, “they should have tested at a much higher limit. Then changed there protocol after that to 120 mph when tour pros are swinging upwards of 130 mph and long drive golfers swinging at 150 mph.
      The recent plateau in yardage gains will be short lived as future golfers who can swing at these higher speeds enter the PGA tour.

      The easiest solution to bring back the yardage gains is to limit the golfball.

      Simple rule: test the ball at a 150 mph swing speed, maximum distance 300 yard carry.

      Reply

      Nick

      6 years ago

      That “simple rule” makes no sense. What companies driver do you use for the test? What shaft is in it? What launch angle do you use? There a only a hand full of guys on the long drive circuit reaching those kinds of swing speeds and when they do they are getting anywhere from 350 to 380 yards of carry.

      If that’s our “rule” the average guy is gonna quit the game when his normal 230 yard drive now only goes 185.

      The less than 5% shouldn’t legislate the game for the rest of us.

      Reply

      Allen

      6 years ago

      Seems to me you have to look it like other sports have. Limit the rebound on the balls and clubs. Baseball still uses wood for pro events, baseballs are required to have an average coefficient of restitution(cor). Same should be for golf. Measure the cor for balls and metal woods for pros. Set standards that wont change. So how about the really big change in golf- techniques have changed like the swing and a whole lot more access to the game than ever before, bringing in more than just the rich elite. I am 61, I have old balls and new balls, today I hit the old balls farther than the new balls because I can not compress the new rock hard balls.

      Reply

      Gordon

      6 years ago

      I genuinely feel proper fitting and optimization of equipment along with the proper ball for that player is the biggest reason that these guys find more yards. It’s a great combination of new age information with the best equipment available. Add that to the pros actually caring about fitness while maintaining flexibility and you have a guy who will hit it further than his predecessors.

      I also believe that on tour, the courses are set up in such perfect conditions that the balls roll forever many weeks.

      Mr. Snell is correct, make the fairways a bit softer, grow the rough up an extra inch or so, and you drop distance.

      Reply

      Divot

      6 years ago

      I thought the measure of play was the score versus par? In tournament play, everyone plays the same course and it comes down to your score versus par. How far you hit the ball is irrelevant.

      Kind of ironic that the USGA wants to roll back the ball in a period where the #of people playing is in decline

      Reply

      Ken Hanley

      6 years ago

      The issue with rolling back the ball is in my view less about the distance the ball travels than it is about how much less the modern ball curves off the fairway relative to the distance it goes.
      At 62 years old now I remember in my mid 30’s when club head speed increase was directly related to more severe slicing and hooking into the woods. The modern ball now allows 125 mph swing speed with much less curve. This enables longer drives on tighter fairways. I say let the ball fly far but put the curve back into the ball design and then let’s see who is best.

      Reply

      Brad

      6 years ago

      he USGA and R&A need to take a long walk off a short bridge if they go ahead with this. If the USGA and R&A decide to “roll back” the golf ball so that it goes 20% shorter than today – I will stock up on a lifetime supply of “modern” golf balls and play with them until I physically can’t play anymore. It’s a ridiculous thing to do to the game.

      I will not accept losing 53 yards (20%) on average from my drives and I don’t believe many other amateurs would either. If forced to play with those sort of golf balls, I would be using driving irons all day long off of the tee and hitting “stinger” shots to get as much rollout as possible. You would be a fool to use a driver off of the tee anymore when the carry distance would be affected so much.

      If they want to shorten up the tour players, then make them all play matches with persimmon head woods like the MLB forces professional baseball players to still use wooden bats rather than allowing them to use aluminium or carbon fibre bats. The MLB don’t punish every level of baseball by forcing all players everywhere to use wooden bats – just the pros. Changing the golf ball will punish every level of golfer, not just the tour pros.

      Otherwise, they need to pull their heads out of their backsides and design the courses so that super long drives are a huge risk-reward. If you hit it straight – you are rewarded with an Eagle chance. if you hit it offline – you’re OOB and looking at a bogey chance at best. You might see some of the long bombers pull out a 3 wood or driving iron under those conditions as they will be thinking accuracy rather than “Hulk smash!” every time they step up to the tee box.

      Reply

      Thomas Murphy

      6 years ago

      What should concern them is that Callaway and Taylormade both promised me about 20 more yards over last few years and we are only getting 7’! Outrageous ?. Isn’t the concern the big gaps in last couple years compared to average growth rate. Maybe they should ban SuperSpeed golf…even Phil has new found distance from the kings of overspeed training ?. Better training. Launch monitor tuned performance ban those

      Reply

      John

      6 years ago

      If the ball is so long there are an awful lot of pros that are tens of yards shorter than the longest hitters. Did they already get restricted flight balls? Perhaps the USGA should ban players from being physically fit as that seems to have a greater effect on distance than the ball or equipment.

      Just when the USGA is finally recognizing that many of their rules are need to be less restrictive they are thinking of going the other way. They lost enough members with their rulings on DJ and Lexi.

      If you want less distance (and higher scores), narrow and water fairways and deepen the rough, the ball will not have to change nor will there be a concern about needing longer courses.

      Reply

      Bill

      6 years ago

      Absolutely. Tampering with the ball makes absolutely no sense. It’s penalising both the natural ability +/or physical focus/training put in by the long hitters whilst also penalising the guys that suffer from a lack of distance in the first place. Next step will be to shorten the golf course because the ‘shorter’ golf balls make scoring too difficult for most players.

      Reply

      Sam Gardner

      6 years ago

      I cannot imagine actual recreational golfers being interested in a “shorter” ball. Golf is difficult enough, and courses are by and large difficult enough, that golfers spend vast amounts of money on “improved” equipment to hit the ball farther and straighter. For the games elite, the courses are long enough already… just don’t shave the fairways down and they won’t get that bonus roll we see on television…

      Reply

      James T

      6 years ago

      Wiffleball golf balls. Those’ll level the playing field. And they can shorten every golf course and build condos.

      Reply

      DMM

      6 years ago

      Dustin Johnson rips one down the middle for 38 yards! Check the man for PEDs.

      Reply

      DMM

      6 years ago

      How ’bout shortening the ball 20% for the pros and lengthening it 20% for the rest of us. The technology is there.

      Seriously, it’ll never work. A kid grows up with potential… which ball is he/she playing? Then, when it comes time to turn pro do they have to relearn the game with a shorter ball. Or if the kid uses the shorter ball to begin with it’s unfair. The wimps he/she plays with outdrive him/her… but not really. What a mess.

      Reply

      Chal

      6 years ago

      I think is a perfect summation of the overall problem. My son shows great promise at his age. So does all his tournaments force the kids to play limited flight. High school and middle school golf plays limited flight. I want to qualify for the US Open, I have to play limited flight but in my local events what do I play. The USGA and R&A are in for a rude awakening if they actually try and do this to golfers…

      Reply

      J-Full

      6 years ago

      Maybe it’s just me but this isn’t cause for alarm. If average Joes are seeing crazy distance gains then maybe we’d have a problem. But hitting the ball far is a skill! It should be rewarded.

      Most courses are long enough for the recreational player. If they develop their skill to where they’re cranking 320 yd drives they should be rewarded for their dedication, not punished with a longer course. Most of the regular joes I see complaining about courses being “too short” aren’t going low. They’re just mad they have to consider course management.

      Slow play is already an issue, it only gets worse if we start trying to make courses longer.

      And as far as the TOUR goes, I personally love to see guys going low. I don’t want to see US Open carnage every week. I could film my own game if I was interested in that. And making a tour-only shorter ball is stupid. It’s going to hurt more players than it helps. Wesley Bryan will never be able to eagle a par 5 unless he holes out from the fairway lol.

      Reply

      greg p

      6 years ago

      Nope…I’ve already done my part in the last 10 years to reduce the average.

      Reply

      Jason Day

      6 years ago

      When do we start raising the basketball hoops?

      Reply

      Steph curry

      6 years ago

      Nope. They are just getting rid of the 3 pointer. RIP

      Reply

      Randy Kitts

      6 years ago

      Leave the ball as is and make the courses narrower,the rough higher,the fairways softer for the pros and let us handicap golfers alone,we don’t play the same game as they do. We don’t play the game for a living,only for our own entertainment and comradery with others who love the game.

      Reply

      retired04

      6 years ago

      Are you kidding me???? I’m 71, 63 years playing, single digit on 5900 yd senior tees, play the latest equipment. On a 330 yd par 4 my 200 yd tee shot leaves me a 130 yd 7 iron. Roll it back 30 yds for the pros-15-20 yds for me- and I am hitting hybrids or fairway metals. I embraced “tee it forward” and am back to having fun. DON’T RUIN IT.

      Reply

      Allen Carroll

      6 years ago

      Ditto almost across the board. 70 years old USGA 6.0 index. Play the senior tees. While there are a few as old or older than me that hit it 50 or more yards past me. their off days are worse than mine as I am rarely out of the fairway. Fairways and greens is way more fun and doable from the senior tees. Have shot my age twice and now that I have retired, I intend to make it a habit.

      Reply

      Ray Gawlak

      6 years ago

      I’m with you Retired04—but you’re just a child. Wait til you hit 78. I play with guys 10 to 15 yrs. younger so I don’t want to be left in the dust having to play a shorter ball. The powers that be (USGA et al) would better serve the average golfer by simplifying the rules and getting rid of the built-in anal-retentive set currently in vogue.

      Reply

      chrisk

      6 years ago

      For all the long-ball doubters, check out a youtube video where a guy in Scotland makes old hickory clubs and he demonstrates how the equipment from the 1880’s is only about 12-15 yards shorter than modern equipment. Just look up “how its made wooden golf clubs” over on youtube.

      Reply

      Bdub

      6 years ago

      No way ChrisK! The ACTUAL clubs built in the 1880’s are nowhere close to 12-15 yards shorter. The guy in Scotland is making clubs with 2017 technology compared to 1880’s technology. Not the same at all. I’ve personally tested old hickory shafted clubs versus 1990’s clubs versus 2016’s clubs and the numbers are extremely different. Plus, the hickory shafted clubs from the 1880’s were playing with completely different golf balls.

      Reply

      James T

      6 years ago

      I love this: “An analysis shows former Nike players picking up an average of 7.1 yards after switching over to new clubs and balls. “. So much for Nike’s advertising of years past that their balls and clubs were long. I wonder what brand fits that parameter now???

      Reply

      chrisk

      6 years ago

      sorry guys, the youtube video is titled “discovery channel visits St. Andrews golf company”

      Reply

      Stephen R Pearcy

      6 years ago

      At a time when the game is losing players and fewer are entering, the USGA thinks it appropriate to make the game harder?! They are so focused on high level competition that they are blind to everything else. First, 99.9% of courses don’t need to be lengthened anyway because they’re never going to host a PGA or USGA Major tournament. So why hurt them? Secondly, for the majority of players the courses are too long anyway. Yes, all those who should be hitting from more forward tees. So is the ball to long for them? Thirdly, the viewers love seeing those 300+ yard drives. So what if the scoring is a little better (it’s not really) – the game, with the new clubs, already has been bifurcated from the past. And besides when they increase the cup diameter to 6″ to speed up the game by 20%, all that old tradition will be gone out the window anyway.

      Reply

      Michael Roman

      6 years ago

      The Game is losing players, when the baby boomers stop playing as age creeps in, or death; the courses will suffer. The young’ens are working 6 days a week paying bills because they have to have the newest & best of everything right now! You think they are going to give a 8 hours & $100. on the weekends. Do what you want there’s not much time left.

      Reply

      Jack Forbes

      6 years ago

      Either way your hurting the shorter hitter so it’s only going to make it more difficult giving those guys who bomb it an even clearer advantage. So the guy who’s 100 yds away now is 120 away while the guys 50 yards away are still under 70 yds now make that calculation throughout the bag. Will only make it harder for the average distance players to compete.

      Reply

      One Day At A Time

      6 years ago

      For what it’s worth, We received a shipment of balls recently. They were slightly different to my (probably obsessive) eye and feel than the previous 32,000 over a 2 year period.

      I called the plant that produced them and the rep told me they were not different. He gave me a very vague statement about spin, which, in its absence, was what made these balls not stay in the air as long.

      Three never before hit range balls versus three never before hit range balls from last year versus three never before hit V1x. Thirty shots, clubhead speeds between 58-108mph with a Titleist 60* Vokey from 2013, a Mizuno T7 56*, a Mizuno Mp18 3i and a Callaway forged X 5 iron, the new range balls had numbers within 99.95% of the V1x.

      I suppose my point is, I’ve done enough research to suggest that I don’t believe anything I hear about statistics from a biased agent. In this case, a ball manufacturers (honest and well intentioned but ill informed) rep, and in the aforementioned “study”, a sample size and demographic that lends its mathematical values to the point the study wanted to affirm.

      Also…..I believe Mr. Snell knows much more than he has shared, but I also believe what he has shared.

      Reply

      Jimv

      6 years ago

      Goes to show you how the USGA wants to stagnant growing the game. Is Mike Davis the guy that used to be in Titleist commercials, dressed like Old Tom Morris complaining about how far the golf ball went??

      Reply

      chrisk

      6 years ago

      The whole angle of this article shows bias in that it continues to to ridicule the USGA making a change in a slight data change from one year to the next . It looks to me like the problem has been going on since Tiger hit the scene and Augusta tried to “Tiger-proof” their course. When the courses say stuff like that, there’s an issue (and Tiger is no longer the lone bomber nowadays). It would have to be tested, but I think it’s possible to make a ball shorter without dramatically affecting the average golfer. The average golfer just doesn’t compress the top-end balls like the pros do.

      Reply

      Paul Vicary

      6 years ago

      Doing it now. Its called getting old!

      Reply

      Bob Stubbs

      6 years ago

      I think its a joke to even consider rolling the ball back. the USGA is once again making decisions based on less than 1% of the golfing community. Dean Snell hit the nail on the head with his comments on agronomy and fitness. Just shrink the fairways, soften them up then grow out the rough and it will change. The Pro’s only play on a handful of courses, if those courses want tournaments its up to them figure out how they want to deal the added length why should we all suffer for it!!!

      Reply

      ComeOnSense

      6 years ago

      They better leave the golf ball alone. They already screwed us with the grooves that was meant for the Tour but scammed us all so we buy new clubs.
      Jack ,stay out of it or you’ll be remember not as the best or 2nd best player ever ( after Tiger ) but remembered as the one that ruined the game.

      Reply

      Mike

      6 years ago

      Using a ball that’s 20% shorter, why not, that’s why you have a bag full of clubs that give you diff. Distances. The ball is a very small part of your game. I play with a bunch of long hitters that are always looking for more distance, more distance, more distance. They out drive me by 30, 40, 50 yards and I still kick their butts all over the course. Go to the driving range and leave your woods in the car and practice your shirt game. THAT’S WHERE THE MONEY IS AT!!!! So long, short, hard, soft, what ever, just find a ball that you can control and keep on the short grass and ill see you in the clubhouse ehen its time to pay up.

      Reply

      Larry

      6 years ago

      I’ll stockpile balls that I currently play. Roll back is crazy for us older guys, make the pros use balls that are specific to their games. Leave us hacks to enjoy tha game!

      Reply

      EX007

      6 years ago

      I am beginning to think that there are genuine idiots running both the USGA and R&A. The data actually demonstrates a statistically insignificant distance gain/loss when comparing the same courses played in the 16 and 17 seasons. I’m not a conspiracy nut, but it’s starting to smell like one manufacturer is in bed with the ruling bodies to produce a tour ball.

      Reply

      Saúl Michael Almanza

      6 years ago

      Bureaucracy kills all fun. I wanna tee from the tips and grip-n-rip for as many yards as I can.

      Reply

      Omer

      6 years ago

      If it makes the rounds faster and golf cheaper for the public, I am all for it. Golf is a game of shooting the lowest score not distance. For me the most exciting part of this is , shorter rounds with hacks not being able to hit drivers offline and holding up play on every hole looking for ball.

      Reply

      MGoBlue100

      6 years ago

      The answer is there, and John nailed it, if the USGA would just look: “Sources tell us the average drive was 20.4 yards longer at Erin Hills compared to Oakmont the year before, primarily due to the fact Oakmont was soaked with rain.” But not just that one factor; Oakmont is known to be especially penal, more so if one misses the greens. Erin Hills had fairways the width of the Space Shuttle’s runway. Everyone swung out of their shoes with no fear. Scare ’em a bit, and they throttle it back.
      In addition, are we to believe that EVERY touring pro’s driver is 100% conforming? Where’s the test data? No one has ever failed? NASCAR sends 2-3 cars tot he back of the field every week for being non-conforming, and this in a sport that relishes and is BUILT on trying to “stretch the envelope”.
      The ball is NOT the problem…

      Reply

      Alan

      6 years ago

      Why is there any surprise ????
      USGA/R&A pricks far removed from reality trying their hardest to deteriorate a sport that has been in a continual decline for years.

      PS. As an FYI, take the non-profit USGA organization and ‘discover’ the salary the top ten of 15 positions are paid. When the director of equipment received close to a SEVEN FIRURE salary, THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH THE ORGANIZATION AND NOT THE GOLF BALL !!!!!

      Reply

      Mark

      6 years ago

      I am all for limited flight for the pros only. Is it really in the best interest of growing the game and keeping it enjoyable to have the course designs be dictated by the abilities of the very small minority of golfers who are professionals? The modern professional game has changed – it is now hit it as far as you can then gouge a wedge to the green. Kids are being taught to hit the ball as hard as they can and worry about direction in the future. Is that really in the best interest of the 99.9% of the rest of the golfing world? Huge courses get to be cost prohibitive to play because of the enormous development and maintenance costs. What would happen if we let all other professional sports dictate rules for everyone else? Just for fun try to imagine all of our roads with NASCAR rules with millions of untrained drivers… Professionals are different – let them have different conditions.

      Reply

      Jonas

      6 years ago

      Jack Nicklaus was taught to hit it as far as he could first and worry about direction in the future.

      Reply

      Bob

      6 years ago

      So let me get this right. I’m playing a 440 yd par 4. I usually hit my drive 275 but now 220. I’m now 220 out and my 3 wood normally goes 250, now 200. I’m still 20 yds from the green! Sounds like a great time! Nobody is going to redesign their courses due to a new ball, therefore get ready for a 6 hr round!

      Reply

      Tom54

      6 years ago

      All of these courses are wringing their hands about becoming obsolete based on a group of players who play them 4 days a year. Whatever.

      Reply

      Kevin

      6 years ago

      Quickest route to bifurcation would be rolling back the ball. Lots of golfers would stop even pretending to play by the rules.

      Reply

      Bobby D

      6 years ago

      I’m 60 years old and can’t seem to swing faster than 90 MPH and most swings are in 85 MPH range. My average drive is 215-220 and I’m hitting long irons into most par 4s. I can’t reach some longer par 4s as it is. If they dial back the ball by 20% I might as well stop playing. My ego won’t allow me to play if my drives only go 160-180 yards. LEAVE THE BALL ALONE, and let the current athletes that are way better than the beer guzzling, hot dog eating fat tour pros of the past blow away the records. Quit trying to make the courses longer to keep the scores up. Who cares if they shoot 30-under? That’s exciting vs watching a typical US Open exhibition in futility.

      Reply

      Painter33

      6 years ago

      How ironic that as the ball has allegedly become “longer”, my distance has declined and my shots are shorter. Is this like “last in gets prizes”?

      Reply

      LouM

      6 years ago

      20% shorter? Sure, as long as evertbody is required to play with that ball.

      Reply

      Callum imrie

      6 years ago

      Wow 7 yards! Whats the point?

      Make golf more exciting attract younger players golf courses struggle for members please don’t make the game harder. I love seeing the tour players boom a big drive and I try to replicate that at my local course I have no success but still.

      Have more match play events on the tour try to create more excitement.

      When there’s a 3way playoff to win the open it doesn’t get much better for me.

      The whole Issue doesn’t seem to be an issue I think they are missing the point entirely.

      Reply

      kevin

      6 years ago

      I really don’t want to see the ball rolled back at this point. I would have no problem with them hitting the brakes and saying no farther in the future. If they want to make a special ball for the Professional Tours I wouldn’t have a big problem with that. It actually might even make it more interesting to see guys hitting 7 irons into greens more than just wedges. I don’t think the amateur players should be forced into changing balls though.

      Reply

      oligolfer

      6 years ago

      I played 9 holes with two balls this summer at a par 3 course, a pro v, and a balata ball I found. My score was lower with the Balata ball, and I think 7 feet might have been the distance difference, but i dought it. The USGA needs to pour it’s energy into pace of play and accessibility initiatives, not nonsense things like this, grooves or the anchor ban.

      Reply

      Bill E

      6 years ago

      I agree with course set up being a bit tougher but “rolling back” the ball is not the answer. Keeping it where it is I am ok with. Here are a few of my points on this.

      Guys that do not hit it 350 are still winning tournaments
      the public does not buy tickets to go out and watch dustin johnson hit it 250/275 they buy tickets because they hope they get to see him hit one 400

      the biggest point is how mental ameteur and recreational golfers are. They will in fact go out and buy the rolled back golf ball and put it in play probably 90% of them. Becuase they have to abide by the “rules” and “I have to do everything the pros do” so it will be an absolute mess for the recreational golfer and public golf courses.

      Dont believe me ? I worked at a golf store when callaway released the erc driver and as soon as the erc II was released all the 20 handicap hacks that owned one ran right into the store to exchange it because they could not golf with a non comforming or a “cheater driver” literally every single one sold was returned.

      Reply

      D.A. Branch

      6 years ago

      I am a senior golfer ( 8) and I play money matches with the flat bellies. I get the benefit of the senior tees but find my approach shots the same distance to the green as the long hitters. 150 out I am reaching for a 6 iron while the long hitters are hitting 9 and 8 irons. If the USGA wants to shorten the balls they will be killing me. The USGA can look at another Stat for their job security!

      Reply

      Jeff

      6 years ago

      This only backs up the idea that it is not the ball, please no USGA. Look at the data and analyze it.

      Reply

      Terry McDowell

      6 years ago

      Golf is hard enough, no need to make it harder

      Reply

      Brad

      6 years ago

      As a golfer who hits a fairly long ball, I will never adopt a “limited” ball into my play. If it ever comes to that, I will stock up on non-conforming balls or continue to play non-conforming balls from manufacturers who continue to make them. It’s not because I value hitting the long ball over everything else, it’s because a matter of principal. Once again Mike Davis and his cronies have gotten it wrong. They are out of touch and this will hurt the game far more than leaving it the way it is. I will also be done watching the PGA Tour on television, and I watch a lot.

      Reply

      Uhit

      6 years ago

      If they really want to address this perceived issue (and really nothing else),
      then they simply could try different approaches as a local rule,
      or Conditions of Competition, like:

      that every shot has to be performed from the deck

      and / or that a special ball has to be used on some (Jack) courses, or during the Open.

      There is no single reason to take a unhealthy action, that could effect the whole golfing world.

      Reply

      Painter33

      6 years ago

      True.

      Reply

      joseph dreitler

      6 years ago

      This is being beat to death. Let’s see what, if anything they do. If they want to dial back the ball for Tour pros and national championships, that will affect about .0000001% Ball makes want to sell golf balls, we get it. The rules and equipment and fields of play and time of play are not the same in the NBA, NFL, MLB as at the highest level of Division 1 college. Most recreational golfers are not as good as a high school player, and the rules differences and equipment used by high schools and professionals in the major sports are very different. People playing golf need to get past thinking the rules for the highest levels of golf and mixed couples league at your local muni need be the same. No one who reads this site believes for a second that your Taylor Made clubs bear much resemblance to those played by Dustin and Rory. My life and enjoyment of golf will go one if they play a Tour ball that has distance limitations.

      Reply

      Gary Sohosky

      6 years ago

      Well said Joseph! I’m a 60 year old PGA golf professional and last year I played around 4 or 5 9 hole rounds of golf following major back surgery 6 months prior. I hit several tee shots around 290 yards during those rounds. Admittedly I was a pretty long hitter in my youth, having the longest hole in one in the US at 360 yards in 1976, but this seems to be almost unimaginable. I’m actually hitting the ball as far or farther than I was 20 years ago. And I’m very far from my physical prime, having had two major back surgeries and a botched knee replacement in the past 10 years. How can anyone say that they’re not bothered by tour players routinely hitting 2 irons/driving irons over 300 yards and tee shots over 350 yards? Even 500 yard par 4’s are a driver and a 9 iron or wedge. When I was younger a 460 yard par 4 was a beast and required even long hitters to hit 3 and 4 irons for second shots, not wedges and sand wedges. Tour players today rarely hit long irons to par fives, much less par fours! There’s a reason major league baseball doesn’t use aluminum bats and baseballs are made the same way they always were. Golf should take a lesson from baseball in that regard and make skill, not technology, the most important part of any sport. There’s nothing wrong with helping all golfers hit the ball straighter but the ball, for tour players, is without question, going too far. End of discussion.

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