“With all the club testing you do, why haven’t you done a Most Wanted Ball test?” We get asked that question all the time. The short answer is that we’re not going to do a big ball test until we can do it right. In today’s video, MyGolfSpy’s Tony Covey explains why we haven’t done a big ball test…yet.
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| Driver Ping G30 | Hybrids PXG 0317 |
| 3/4 IRON PXG 0311XF | 5-GW Srixon Z 565 |
| SW PXG 0317 | LW PXG 0311 |
| Putter EVNROLL |
5 years ago
It’s interesting, you said that ball data is only interesting in perfect strike conditions. I would argue for me ball data on mishits is most interesting. I find the biggest amount of strokes I lose in a game is the big driver mishit and long iron shots that end in hazards etc. So for me finding the ball that is the straightest (irrespective of distance) and still can bite the green on approach shots would be the most valuable data I could find.
5 years ago
Just my two cents’ worth: I’ve been playing since about 1982 or 1983, and i can remember getting a dozen new tech Spalding Tour Edition golf balls for Christmas back in the mid 80’s. I was utterly amazed at the spin those balls could produce, but at the same time, i could never predict how much spin i’d have (it might sit and stop, it might spin back a foot or two, or it might spin back 20′!). It was fun to do, but as my skills improved, it seemed to me that the spinning trick shots were more for fun and not for scoring. So many variables to contend with when playing the shot (not just in my own swing, but turf conditions combined with green conditions and subtle differences in different spots on the greens as well).
I currently play Bridgestone e6 speed balls, and my handicap is around -5 (with about a 100 mph driver swing speed). And I chose these balls not for driver performance OR greenside performance. It’s the irons used between 80 yards and 190 yards. I find that with my swing there are huge inconsistencies in distance with the higher-end balls versus the cheaper $25-$30 per dozen balls. I’ve done plenty of testing on my own on the course with a variety of balls too. I’ve also noticed that mid-iron testing on golf balls isn’t something that comes up very much (just drivers and wedges). I think everyone that plays is probably missing something when they don’t take the performance on mid-irons into account when trying different balls. I recommend everyone look closely at your iron shots approaching a green with 7 irons and 5 irons when choosing a ball.
5 years ago
This is a very good post in my opinion as is aligned with what I have seen. In the last ~5 years with everyone chasing launch monitor results, the spin has really come off the premium balls off the driver. I think a nice premium ball and a 2 piece are probably going to be within a couple hundred RPM of back spin given the same exact launch angle, ball speed and ball compression.
Around the green, I honestly don’t see quite as much difference as most people talk about. I think it is more subject to strike. I own a monitor and one partial chip shot I can spin it thousands of RPM more on backspin than on the very next shot with the exact same wedge and ball. There’s more variability of my swing than the ball, particularly on those partial shots. I’m not so sure the ball matters all that much, at least in initial conditions (as Tony describes).
On full shot wedges, I actually hit the ball fairly high with initial launch conditions relative to my swing speed. I’m probably flipping but so be it. My gaps are even. The ball goes up fast, spins a pretty decent amount and is coming down hard, even with a 2 piece. Sometimes with a premium ball there’s just a ridiculous amount of spin (like 13k) and the ball just goes nowhere, so I may actually be more consistent shot to shot with a 2 piece.
The only shot that it really makes much difference to me is on those full iron/hybrid shots. I have noticed with a 4/5 piece tour ball I really have to watch out in the wind. I have lost a 4/5 piece ball flying into greens (my home course is almost always windy), that trouble is not in play for with a 2 piece.
I also lose balls because I’m wild off the tee. Add it all up, and for me a 2 piece or cheap 3 piece (e6 soft on sale) is the obvious choice. Give me one I can see (yellow) and one I like the feel of off the putter (Duo is too soft, Volvik too hard), and I am happy.
Others may see something entirely different and that’s fine. There’s clearly a market for better balls than I play.
I agree with Tony that to do this right really requires a robot. Having said that, if any independent would do a test like this well, it would be MGS. I’m excited to see what they come with.
5 years ago
Two things that bring joy to most golfers not counting scores, One, making the tee time (that will always be the biggest thrill) two, being able to play the equipment you want to play….when and if you get to the point in life where you can afford it, getting those clubs/new balls you want to play makes a lot of the pain of actually playing go away faster.
5 years ago
Playing TP5 right now $35/doz & seem better than ProV’s and a lot cheaper. I have a huge stock pile of ProV’s but I don’t seem to get the flight or distance comparably. Tried about everything else and continue to sample. I get longest distance from TP5X but putts seem too hot.
5 years ago
Why don’t you test shafts?
5 years ago
I have found that the best ball that you can play is the ball that your opponent used to beat you last time you played. It varies from time to time.
5 years ago
Anyone that would question peoples choice of balls based off of their own experience, is missing the big picture. In a game where confidence is key, if your ball does not give you confidence, you are already losing strokes. Personally, when I find ball, I play them. Just to see how they react to my game. There have been a few surprises, Project A is one of them. But, I never buy brand new, I always get balls from auction sites that have been gamed already. I buy the balls that are not refinished, I have found those are junk. I get to play Pro V1’s at about $1 a ball. This game is expensive enough, I don’t need 1 hole costing me 16 bucks or better, that is not normal, but it has happened. Find balls on the course, play them, if you like them, hit an auction site and buy them for a fraction of the cost. Oh BTW, I am an 8 hcp…just an opinion from someone who plays enough golf to know.
5 years ago
My father played as a scratch golfer for years. It’s an old joke but he always said his favorite brand was OP’s (Other Peoples).
5 years ago
Take it from a 9 hdcp golfer tour spin balls are great but if the green are soft and holding you don’t need to play the high end spin balls . The three piece soft feel gives you all you need to score low more distance and cost less. I play the lost golf balls one of the trick to finding lost brand new balls is from off the tee go about 160 to 180 yards out make a sharp right turn . Why does this work you ask , most golfer think they hit it farther then they really do , A slice goes even less yards so why’ll there hunt for there ball around 200 to 230 yards out it’s fifty to seventy yards farther back if you find one there are plenty more just keep looking. Last count I have close to 400 mint Pro V1 about $1400 that golfer paid just to lose them to me. The best balls mid range priced are Callaway SuperSoft, Titileist Tour Soft and NXT Tour S, ,Bridgestone E6 , and My favorite is Taylormade Project a. Side note The best cheap ball and best to play in cold weather is Top Flite Gamer Tour close second Wilson Dou Spin. Rap up if your name isn;t Tiger, Phil , Rory or Bubba you have to pay for them balls and if you lose more then one ball a round the ball is the least of the your problem
5 years ago
The only testing that improve a golfers game when it comes to equipment is during a proper fitting process. I do fitting every 3-4 yrs if I change equipment. I am 58 and still play of <5 hcap. The only piece of equipment that really make a difference from one testing to the other is the shafts. With irons if the lofts remain the same there is almost no differance. With irons it is about the look and feel and style of head. The magic is innthe shafts. Drivers. This year tested 7 different heads with the same shaft and not one gave me any better results then my 3 yr old Titleist. All trsted with 4 different shafts. So no change to clubhead but replaced the shaft that is slightly lighter and softer tip to get higher ball flight. Balls. Tested a number and shot the 4 best rounds with 3 different balls all in the mid price range.
5 years ago
Lots of really interesting comments on this. I would say that even with robots it might be tricky to give an application for golfers of varying skills and types. It’s almost as difficult to show the performance benefits from testing different grips. That’s one that would be a doozy to get meaningful data to help golfers make better decisions. I am talking about different brands not sizes.
My two sense is that most balls behave the way they are designed assuming there are no other influence on the ball. They have limits, and all are different in big and small ways and so each will be different depending on the type of swing applied to the ball. That is to say the swing is crucial to evaluation, and a robot is incapable of realistically displaying the inconsistency to a certain degree that each player has.
To say that the best balls are the ones at the top and that the difference between them is miniscule is both true and very false. It depends!
My Empirical Data: I committed to playing the same ball all year. I did and it helped. It eliminated feel inconsistencies off of the putter so I knew the sound of a misstrike and center strike. It made me put better because I spent more time practicing to get the same feedback. I also knew that the super high spin you drive, or my failed to check on the green shots were me and not my ball. Playing the same ball allowed me to practice and play with better ability to observe instead of question or blame.
There might be a better ball to yield better results on a GC Quad or Radar test but I don’t have the resources to find that result for me and my swing.
My personal conclusion with golf balls is that they absolutely matter. ABSOLUTELY. Maybe even more so for high handicap than for the .0001%. A ball can help you enjoy the game more. Pick a price range and try a few of each on different shots on the course and make a decision. Choose one that isn’t going to make you cry when you lose it, then stick to it.
Just my 2¢
5 years ago
Golf balls are always changing, by the time you find one that works for your swing it is outdated or discontinued. Golf balls react differently to different golf swings, speed, and tempo. One golf ball may have less spin decay in the air than another–or better put will stay in the air longer for more distance. Maybe there is some truth to the dimple in dimple design? And a heavy core golf ball has a low moi, and a light core has a high moi so it will lose spin slowly and may go further. So it is hard to do golf ball testing justice, it could be endless without any true answers from one to another.
5 years ago
At the risk of obviousness doesn’t every golfer who actually cares about scoring do some testing of their own and on an annual basis? I play to a 6 if I play once or twice a week and closer to an 8 if I get lazy and play every other week. I play with a few different guys one of which is an 80+ golfer. He hits a variety of balls including a Vice but really doesn’t care. I have a close friend who struggles to break 100. He’s actually a great putter but plays whatever ball he digs out of his bag. Long story short the better the player the more discerning they are with balls. Even tho I watch my golf budget I do spend on balls. For my particular game I like ProV1’s. Not the longest off the tee but I prefer their feel and sound and flight control throughout the bag and spin around the green. I’m not a great putter so don’t focus on how they compare with putting. Tour guys play ProV’s overwhelmingly but Tiger plays Bridgestone so I will do my testing in Spring as usual and see why the guy who only cares about winning and made TV viewing spectacular this Summer hits them.
5 years ago
Oh well nice try. MGS can’t be everything to every situation. There’s probably 1/2 dozen top balls all within +- .0001 degree of each. If there was one outstanding above all performance ball then all pros and top amatires would have it in play. I can as hdcp 6 no ball has had any effect on my performance. Only top balls I play are those I find
5 years ago
I doubt if the golf ball matters at all if you are not below 7 or 8 handicap. Regardless, we can do our own test. For distance, I find no appreciable difference in the top line golf balls. But when it comes to pitching and chipping, I like the prov1x because it spins the most.
If I can find a Bridgestone that is as long as the prov1x and spins as much around the green, that is the balk I want. I prefer the feel of the Bridgestone BBX 330 over the Titliest. But it will not check as quickly as a the prov1x.
5 years ago
You should try the Vice Pro Plus. All the driver and wedge tests show the difference between your prov1x is neglible. The price difference isn’t neglible
5 years ago
Two years ago I bought 13 sleeves of golf balls. Everything that I could get at the time..Pro V1, 1x, three types of Callaways, right on down to Pinnacles and Top Flights. I then rented a hitting booth at PGA Tour Superstore. My wife took her laptop and we designed a simple spreadsheet to track each shot. I hit only my driver..each ball 4 times..12 shots for each type of ball. I rested a couple of times when I felt that it was necessary..and I mixed and matched the balls as my wife drew them from the box that I had them all mixed up in. We recorded distance, distance off line, and my impression of how the ball felt. After the session I discounted the obvious mishits and then averaged the results. It was fun..lots of fun. I had quite an audience by the time that I was really into it. Just about every golfer in the store..including the sales staff wanted to see the results.
Pinnacle gold was longest..just over 1.5 yards longer than the ProV1. From top to bottom there was 4.2 yards difference in the length of ball. Callaway Supersoft was the shortest ball and all of the rest fell in the middle somewhere.
I know that my study is not scientific..I don’t care..it told me exactly what I wanted to know..which ball was right for me..turns out to be the Callaway Chromesoft..not the longest, not the shortest..but the combination of distance, off line distance and feel made it my first choice and I have been hitting it since.
I look forward to an MGS study of golf balls…I may just have to re-try my study to see how it works out after a couple of years.
5 years ago
Nice that you put in all the effort, but you tested the wrong thing. Of the tee there is going to be negligible difference between a Top Flite and Pro V as you saw.
Where the difference really shows is in the short game shots, if you had done a similar testing on 20, 40, 60, 80 yard shots, you would have seen a much wider gap in performance, and that’s what’s going to help scores more than a few yards off the tee.
I know as I have participated in test very much like I mentioned and the differences were astounding between a 3 and 4 piece tour ball and the two piece distance balls.
5 years ago
If golf ball differences are so hard to compute, why does MGS use only one type ball in its club tests? Why not just start with the five top selling balls and test each for its marketing claims (e.g., high spin, low trajectory, etc)? Prove or disprove the maker’s listed attributes.
5 years ago
Consistency in testing…duh.
5 years ago
Can MGS rent a robot? Three simple tests with a driver, 7-iron, & PW (any brand)…top 25 balls, 2 piece to 5 piece, one shot with each club, one list, showing distance and spin for each ball with each club. That’s all the average golfer needs to know!
5 years ago
the results would not be significant. sample size is very important. hitting one ball proves nothing about performance.
5 years ago
Who exactly is your audience? Do all amateur golfers need Bryson DeChambeau type data? Will it even make a difference to a golfer that is over a scratch handicap? It amounts to spend, spend, spend in MSG’s constant articles of best this and that of 2018. If there is an amateur golfer on this website, that if he bought all of MGS’s number 1 recommended products the entire year wouldn’t be even close to winning even a local club tournament. How exactly is the test data going to help an amateur golfer? For instance, take an amateur golfer that swings at 95 mph with a fundamentally solid golf swing. Now take another amateur that swings at 95 MPH with a poor swing. Your data would suggest the same ball for each due to the same MPH. The fact is, the ball is not going to make a difference to either one, nor is any specific brand of ball. What ever gains you are trying to imply can be made, in the end, they are all amateur golfers who will probably never get much better than they already are no matter what they buy. Golf is not some wiz bang marketing efforts. Golf is practice, practice, practice every single day until you have a professional repeatable swing and know how to play your way around a real golf course. You have hacks on here shooting 90+ playing courses that are simple. No ball or equipment in the world is going to fix that. A really good story would be to pick out 5 golfers in 2019, give them ALL the MGS’s recommended 2019 balls and clubs and track their performance at the beginning of the year and how they end up at the end of the year? Just the average Joe out playing his average home course, reporting in his verified score.
5 years ago
I get it. You’re answering why haven’t we done something yet and the answer is because it’s hard. I can help. Eliminate all balls that aren’t a tour ball first and foremost. I get there’s a market for Dt solos but it’s no where near the people comparing prov1 vs prov1x vs tp5 vs tp5x vs srixon va Callaway. No ones looking at 10-50 dollar us per ball from japan. No one is comparing the tour balls to a topflights. So we can simplify it down to about 10-20 balls max and have different flights. The tour flight and then everything else flight.
A robot is best. Does MGS have one? That wasn’t answered so I’m guessing they’re mega bucks to get one. You could use it for club testing also so it’s not like you can’t have one. Companies are constantly going out of business or buying new stuff so look at used from the big four golf companies or used via liquidation sales.
I’m not a big believer in the whole you gotta swing this fast to use this ball. It’s marketing. Does bubba Watson hit every ball for all 18 holes with a full blown driver swing at 125mph? Nope. His sandwedge full out is prob around the average joes driver swing. What about the touch shots around the green – is it the 125mph swing with a wedge? Nope. It’s the 3mph all the way to 88mph. All the time the ball is compressed and spins etc. now I will say someone who can’t hit a proper golf shot should be realistic and say ‘I get no performance increases from pro v vs a topflight so save the money and get balls for 14 bucks for 2 dozen because half are going into the Woods or water in 2-3 rounds.
If you play well enough to spin the ball then you can and should use just about any tour ball.
Titleist even points this out in their commercials with all the pros saying ‘I never swing the same speed twice in the same round. I’m always trying to take a little off, stretch it a little, flight it down, flight it high, etc’. So just keep that in mind.
Most of us would love to see a ball test but we always know it’s the individual and not really the ball or clubs. If a club and ball is better for Rory but not better for tiger then just use your head and know it’s personal preference for most and all things being equal it’s DOLLAR BILLS MAN!
5 years ago
Stop making sense man! This is the internet!
5 years ago
Thank you for the info. Looking forward to more test in near future.
5 years ago
Very good explanation, I would love to see you test short game. There how it feels to the golfer matters the most. Do high handicaps prefer a softer cover etc would really help.
5 years ago
I love the site, great articles and test reports. So far I can’t say too much good about the videos. 6 minutes to say there isn’t a launcher monitor able to test balls properly.
5 years ago
Video with a written copy under it I love it, pure video only, I have to agree I hate opening them as sometimes they are wordy.
5 years ago
And that’s why MGS testing is the most trusted. Done right, or not done. No BS.
5 years ago
Seems like all club and BALL tests should be done with an Iron Bryon type device for the same repeated swing. Each club or ball test could be done at different swing speeds. Each ball test could be done with different clubs choosing the current most popular in each club category.
For most golfers in the WORLD we don’t need to know how a club or ball performs in the hands of the current top ranking pros or long drive champions.
Give us real world (average golfer) data please! Sooner is better than waiting and a test can always be repeated.
5 years ago
Completely agree. I would much rather know how clubs perform at different swing speeds with an iron Byron and its repeatable swing than with live testers. Too many variables. When you are reading the results of the testing, you have no idea the type of swing that the testers are putting on the clubs being tested. I would love to see the data of all the drivers they test for most wanted hit on an iron Byron at 110 mph.
5 years ago
I understand where this thinking comes from, but there’s literally no one in golf club R&D I’ve spoken with who agrees with it.
We covered it several years ago in this story: http://mygolfspy.com/golf-club-testing-results-you-can-trust/.
Robots don’t swing like humans, it’s really that simple. The degree of repeatability is unrealistic, and I think it’s perhaps telling that when robot testing has been used as the basis for a performance recommendation, the results have been poor. Edwin Watts tried a 9-point robot test several years. It’s top finishers simply weren’t even in the discussion among drivers that produced the best results for golfers.
This robot thing comes up all the time, and like I said, I understand to a degree why it sounds like a good idea, but it simply doesn’t’ replicate the reality of what happens when humans swing clubs – and that’s before we get into how difficult it is to configure a robot to make precise contact on the on every face. It doesn’t take seconds. It takes minutes, hours, and in some cases days. And none of that accounts for changes in impact conditions resulting from dynamic loft, nor does it give consideration to actual cg location. Robots aren’t the right way to test golf club performance. Ask any R&D guy and he’ll tell you the same.
5 years ago
I have played golf for over 50yrs. and wanted to comment on MGS articles. They are no doubt the best informative and interesting for golfers of all ages. GREAT JOB. KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK
5 years ago
How does Foresight compare to TrackMan?
5 years ago
Strengths and weaknesses with both. If you’re going to be using it indoors with any regularity, Foresight is the only real enterprise-level option, in my opinion. I’ve seen enough head to head stuff to suggest Trackman isn’t at its best in restricted flight environments. Head data is more reliable with Foresight as well.
Trackman offers exceptional software and can provide measured full flight data (roll is always driven by algorithms).
Anecdotally, I’ve seen a good number of Trackman guys either switch to, or supplement with Foresight. Bryson uses both Flightscope and GCQuad as part of his routine.
Foresight also has a new offering called DTS (https://www.foresightsports.com/dts). We haven’t had a chance to discuss it in much detail yet. They had it set up on the range at the PGA Show demo day last year. Cameras are mounted downrange to provide full flight data. It’s capable of measuring what happens as a ball descends. Landing, bounce, roll…everything. I expect it’s expensive, but for OEMs and enterprise facilities, it will offer something no other system currently does.
5 years ago
Tony,
Thanks so much for the explanation. That makes perfect sense.
I knew more would have to go into ball testing with all of the different variables and what not. I didn’t think it was this difficult though and now I see why it is.
Thanks to you and MGS for all that you all do to better inform golfers.
Titleist ProV1 Golf Balls
Stuart
5 years ago
I remember reading a ball test you did in the past and thinking ‘what about aerodynamics?’ Good to see this video come out. Don’t know what you have in mind for your ball tests if and when they happen but are we thinking, Trackman + robot + aerodome? Also wonder if manufacturing tolerances could mean that consistency from ball to ball within a batch could prove just as much of a concern as the actual ball model you are using? Has anyone outside of the manufacturers themselves tested this before? Surely not, or if they have was it under the right conditions? Can’t wait to see what you come up with..