Callaway’s New Big Bertha Iron is Up to 2 Clubs Longer*
Irons

Callaway’s New Big Bertha Iron is Up to 2 Clubs Longer*

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Callaway’s New Big Bertha Iron is Up to 2 Clubs Longer*

Written By: Tony Covey

Stop me if you’ve heard this often of late; Callaway has announced a new product.

Meet the new Big Bertha Iron. Isn’t she something?

You’re probably going to want to read on to see what we think about the performance claims Callaway is making on its latest release.

big-bertha-iron-back-2014

Admittedly, that intro has the tone of a cynical bastard, and really, for retailers and consumers too, iron release cycles are far less problematic than metalwoods.

Because of the cost we don’t replace them nearly as often (nor do most of us have the desire to), and most retailers don’t stock much in the way of actual inventory because most everything sold is, at a minimum, fit for length and lie. There are too many permutations to bother trying to stock a full selection.

Point is, nobody, not even Callaway is flooding the channel with irons. Retailers aren’t bogged down by excess inventory, but since I figured somebody would have an issue with it, I thought I’d get it out of the way early. Now let’s get on with it.

About the Big Bertha Iron

Here’s how my introduction to Big Bertha started this morning:

The Big Bertha Irons can make golfers up to two clubs longer with a new 360 Face Cup technology, a technology previously used for big distance gains in the company’s Fairway Woods and Hybrids. Yes, that’s right: a face cup in an iron — it’s real, and so are the benefits!

Oh…and here’s one of many videos on the subject.

Fairway Technology in an Iron?

The new Big Bertha iron is what happens when somebody in Callaway’s R&D Department says “Hey, what if we glued this fairway wood face to an iron? I bet the ball would go really far”.

Obviously the engineering behind actually making that work is a bit more complex than some spare parts and a tube of super glue, but in grossly oversimplified terms, that’s more or less what Callaway has done.

big-bertha-iron-break-apart-a-2014_HR

The company has taken two of its legitimate fairway wood technologies (360 Face Cup and Internal Standing Wave) and built them into what, based on Callaway’s claims anyway, could reasonably be described as the mother of all distance irons.

Ask any XHot Deep fairway owner if the tech works (it does). Why couldn’t it work in an iron?

I could rehash the technology for you, but since the guys at Callaway have put together a couple of brief, yet informative videos on what those particular technologies actually are, and how they’ve been applied to the new irons, I’ll let them tell the story.

360 Face Cup Technology

Internal Standing Wave

Big Bertha Iron Specifications

bertha-spec

Prices for steel shafts start at $999 for 4iron-AW or $875 for 4iron-PW, and will be available at retail on 10/17

Get it out of your system now. Yes…the shafts are long. Yes…lofts are strong. It’s a damn distance iron, get over it (preferably permanently).

Callaway’s marketing collateral contains some reasonably ambiguous words like “forgiveness” and “playability“, and quite frankly I’m not sure why anyone would want an iron in this category if it wasn’t both of those things, but that’s golf marketing, and so I too shall try and get over it.

Too Hot?

flexible-face

The big concern from a playability perspective for us is the potential for hot spots on the face. As good as TaylorMade’s RocketBladez were, for example, there were definitely issues with parts of the face being too hot. 10 extra yards isn’t so awesome when it’s an inconsistent 10 more than expected.

Callaway does address the consistency of the face in its tech videos, but of course, we won’t really know for sure if that’s an accurate performance representation until golfers (ourselves included) get our hands on the irons.

As has been the case of late, Callaway did not provide us with samples ahead of the official announcement, so frankly, we can’t give you any indication of what’s real, and what isn’t.

For now you’ll just have to get by with an assortment of buzzwords and phrases that include the likes of “maximum forgiveness“, “flexible face“, “serious speed“, and my personal favorite “advanced progressive looks“.

Clearly I need to get over some things as well.

The Fine Print Police

I’ll be brutally honest. I find much of what Callaway is saying really intriguing, but is often the case, I can’t get myself totally on-board with how they’re presenting some of the information.

For example, I absolutely refuse to post the shameless promo video where Patrick Reed hits his 6-iron against the new Big Bertha Iron. Realistically do any of you really care how far the lowest-ranked Top 5 player in the world hits the apparent mother of all distance irons against an X-Forged?

For the sake of comparison, I can hit my TaylorMade SpeedBlade significantly longer than my Miura CB-501. I’m not sure what that proves, but if it helps, I also feel like when I’m on my game, I’m a top 5 player at my club (in my mid-handicap flight).

And given the questionable nature of that comparison, now is probably the time to call in the fine print police.

Actually, there isn’t actually any fine print in the video itself, but for legal purposes, Callaway disclosed the basis for the claim (the disclaimer) in YouTube’s video description box. Here’s what it has to say:

bertha-iron-dist-claim

As you might imagine, there are some things we don’t love about this particular claim, but I actually like that Callaway tested at multiple impact locations.

I actually love that Callaway chose to compare Bertha to an iron that’s not in their current lineup. Nobody enjoys being told that their current line equipment is inferior to the latest and greatest, and so I’m appreciative that Callaway didn’t make that sort of comparison this time around.

We don’t love the fact that Callaway used robots instead of real golfers. Everyone the industry we’ve ever discussed the subject with (including members of the Callaway team) have consistently told us that actual humans are preferable for performance testing.

Callaway handles that bit admirably enough with that part about how actual player gains may vary. You might get two club lengths or you might not. It all depends on basically everything…and yeah, when you want to make a big marketing claim (or a non-claim-claim), legally speaking it’s a lot easier just to roll with the robot, which is why nearly everyone in the industry does it this way when they test for marketing purposes.

Callaway has done player testing, and while less official (legally speaking), it is saying its claims hold up with real golfers.

Look, we understand the skepticism; we’re golfers too and when you see the words “up to 2 clubs longer” for the first time it can be hard to believe. But time after time, the data testing and the PLAYER TESTING back it up. – Callaway Golf

Callaway has done the player testing. Presumably they kept that data, and for whatever it’s worth, I believe it largely supports what they’re saying. Why not show it to us?

As a related aside, I spoke with a source who claims to have seen the Trackman data from some of Callaway’s Bertha testing. The actual yardage number he gave me was 17 yards. Obviously that’s not a number Callaway is likely going to embrace for a yardage claim, but if you find yourself wondering what the average gain might be (as opposed to up to…), that very well could be the number.

What we really take issue with is the substantial differences in specifications between the Bertha and the RAZR X HL irons. Sincere apologies in advance if Callaway went the extra mile to match their Bertha and RAZR X HL test clubs up spec for spec and didn’t mention it, but otherwise we’re not exactly talking about an apples to apples comparison.

The Tale of the Tape

bertha-razr-x-hl-length

bertha-razr-x-hl-loft

Doesn’t exactly have the makings of a fair fight, does it?

Length Matters More than Loft

I’ve wasted my breath with you guys on this before, but I’ll try again. In Callaway’s defense, with modern irons it’s not simply about distance achieved solely through stronger lofts and longer shafts.

Obviously shaft length plays a huge role in iron distance (or any club for that matter), but the stronger lofts are as much about optimizing trajectory for a lower and rearward CG placement. Short story, if Callaway and others didn’t make the lofts stronger, the irons would launch too high and spin too much.

The thing is, we’re not arguing iron design we’re talking about comparing two things that aren’t as alike as they probably should be.

Absolutely, most consumers don’t consider things like loft and length when they buy new clubs, the collective WE wants more distance, and how we achieve it is largely inconsequential. I get that, but if Bertha really is the distance breakthrough that Callaway is telling us it is, why not show us how it performs length to length and loft to loft against a previous generation of iron?

big-bertha-iron-face-2014

A Philosophical Look at the Big Bertha Iron

Let’s step away from the distance claims for a moment to consider an interesting possibility.

What if everything Callaway is saying is absolutely true?

What if Callaway’s new Big Bertha irons can actually deliver an extra two club lengths worth of added distance to the average golfer?

I don’t love the comparison across different specs, but, based on everything I know about the technology of these irons, I’m inclined to believe Callaway is actually sitting on a major distance breakthrough.

Here’s the rub.

Is this something we actually need? Is this something we actually want? (you can’t see it, but I’m scratching my chin to look really philosophical, and potentially even brilliant.)

Look, this type of iron isn’t my thing, but for the guy who hits a 5-iron 150-160…maybe less; I can’t imagine there are many of them out there that wouldn’t rather hit a 7 iron from that same distance.

On a well-struck shot, I hit my current distance-enhanced 5 iron over 200 yards. I know that puts me well beyond the average golfer, and yet, if you told me I could maybe hit my 7 that far, why wouldn’t I want to do that?

Quite frankly, even if in some cases the actual specs make the argument purely psychological, there isn’t a situation where I wouldn’t rather hit a 7 than a 5. I don’t want to hear about Ben Hogan and how he could hit any club any distance with any trajectory either. I’m no Ben Hogan, and neither are you.

We all need a little help.

In that context, I think Big Bertha (again, assuming everything Callaway is claiming is real) is a tremendously appealing iron (physical bulkiness, not withstanding).

max-forgiveness

The Argument Against Bertha

Most of you are probably thinking some variation of these two things:

  • Hey Jackass, why would I want to hit a 4-iron as far as my 5 (or even 4) wood?
  • So now you’re telling me I need to carry two extra wedges? Screw that.

The first is actually pretty simple. Because it’s shorter, and easier to hit, and now you don’t even need to carry that 5 wood anymore. Fairway woods are notoriously difficult for many golfers to hit, and Callaway just potentially eliminated the need for you to carry one. Be polite. Say thank you.

For lots of guys, I think that’s probably a really compelling proposition.

The answer to the second question is less cut and dry.

First and foremost (and again based on everything I know about modern iron design), there’s almost zero chance that the Bertha PW is 2 clubs longer than most any other pitching wedge you might have in your bag.

It’s not practical, and Callaway certainly knows that. What years and years of collecting data has taught the golf companies is that for most golfers, the average real-world distance gap is shorter in the long irons than it is in the short irons.

In practical terms what that means is that most of us (assuming a conventional iron design) don’t hit our 4 iron substantially, or even measurably, longer than our 5 iron. Some don’t hit the 6 appreciably longer than the 5.

To adjust for that, and create a practical need to actually bag an entire sequence of irons, what Callaway and others are doing is what you might call progressive gapping.

Distance and loft gaps are greater in the longer irons (to create more total and evenly spaced distance), but by the time we get to the end of the bag, we’re hitting what most of us might consider close to normal pitching wedge distances.

The point is that you’re not going to be two clubs longer throughout the set (there’s a reason why Callaway didn’t make a claim using the 9-iron), we’re simply talking about wider gaps where we need them, and while you might take issue with that, for many, that’s actually an advantageous proposition.

But yes…there’s a chance you might need to carry an additional wedge, but that’s no big deal given that you just pulled a difficult to hit fairway wood (or hybrid) from the long end of your bag.

big-bertha-iron-sole-2014

In Summation

I have absolutely no idea if the new Big Bertha irons are any good. I don’t have any idea how many actual human golfers will pick up anything close to two club lengths. I have no idea what value you personally see in the possibility of two club lengths.

While the new Bertha isn’t in my particular wheelhouse, I see what could be a great iron for the force limited or distance limited golfer out there. Over time we all lose distance, and I’ve yet to meet anybody who didn’t want it back.

For the golfer who wants his distance back, or just wants more distance, Big Bertha (on paper anyway) is as compelling as it gets. In reality (on the golf course)…we don’t yet know how close Callaway’s robot brings us to reality, and so here’s our promise to you:

We’re going to put these claims to the test and report back to you to let you know exactly how much distance a real golfer can expect to gain with Callaway’s latest addition to the Bertha line.

As always, stay tuned.

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Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony is the Editor of MyGolfSpy where his job is to bring fresh and innovative content to the site. In addition to his editorial responsibilities, he was instrumental in developing MyGolfSpy's data-driven testing methodologies and continues to sift through our data to find the insights that can help improve your game. Tony believes that golfers deserve to know what's real and what's not, and that means MyGolfSpy's equipment coverage must extend beyond the so-called facts as dictated by the same companies that created them. Most of all Tony believes in performance over hype and #PowerToThePlayer.

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey





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      Harold mcginn

      9 years ago

      thanks for the unbiased opinion I look forward to your test results

      Reply

      Tony

      9 years ago

      Didn’t MacGregor use the “cup face” technology in their MACTEC NVG2 irons, years ago? Yes, they did; I have a set in my basement. Given that, how can Callaway act like it’s their innovation? Makes me wonder how much more of Callaway’s claims are not exactly accurate.

      Reply

      George P

      9 years ago

      Not an expert, but have not many OEMs had to adjust lofts due to the recent technology giving us greatly increased launch angles? If we had today’s launch with yesterday’s lofts wouldn’t we be screaming bloody murder? IDK.

      But mainly, don’t begrudge any golfer playing what lets them enjoy the game more.

      Reply

      Ray

      9 years ago

      Clarification: I meant to write standard “lie” instead of loft.

      Reply

      Ray

      9 years ago

      Hello all, I am a 9 handicapper and I just played my third round with these new clubs. I was fitted with standard loft, grip and length and regular flex graphite shafts.
      I tried five different 7 irons before deciding on the BB’s. I am so glad that I chose these clubs and it has absolutely nothing to do with additional length.
      These clubs are a pleasure to swing. The ball takes off in a penetrating flight with a very pleasant “click” as it comes off the face. Well balanced, good looking clubs perfectly matched to my swing.
      By the way, average carry of the 7 irons I tested was 154 yards. The BB carried 163.7
      It is my opinion that placing all of the emphasis on length takes away from the true reasons that these are, without a doubt, the best clubs I have ever utilized in 30 plus years of golf.

      Reply

      Bernhardt Banger

      9 years ago

      Don’t be afraid to mix n match – go for your chunky yardage munchers up until the 7, maybe 8 iron. Onwards go for your forged pin seekers. Your bag doesn’t need to be as neatly coiffured as your mistresses bush. We’re after a number after all

      Reply

      Juan Carlos

      9 years ago

      Is it just me (it’s not) or do these irons look IDENTICAL to the Nike VRS X Irons. Wow

      Reply

      Mbwa Kali Sana

      9 years ago

      A 3 Hybrid is more expensive than a 3 Iron .That’s the reason why manufacturers replace long irons by hybrids .It’s a mistake ,I ‘ve kept the long irons from Older sets and Still play them .
      The hybrids don’t play better for me .I ‘m a 7 Handicap at 80 years of AGE ,and I play three times a week 18 holes ,M’y 2 Iron has 16° of loft .

      Reply

      Ray

      9 years ago

      Well, hickory shafts are easier to swing…. Just kidding, congratulations, I pray that I can play as much as you do if I make it to 80.

      Reply

      zoron

      9 years ago

      I have noticed in the last couple of years, golf club manufacturers have eliminated the 3 iron from the iron club set mainly in the game improvement category. I think the reason is 3 irons are difficult to hit for a high handicapper. It seems to me with club manufacturers increasing their lofts, we are moving a 4 iron closer to the loft of a 3 iron. Isn’t that difficult to hit? I’m confused!

      Reply

      JoJo

      10 years ago

      I have the ’13 xhot irons and the lofts are strong but I’ve really loved the clubs now for two years. I also use the 3 iron all the time and is easy to hit and tends to fly like a 4 iron with a nice high flight. I also found that my 8 iron which now is my 150 yard club still appears to have the ball flight of my old 8 iron with higher loft (previously used the x20’s). Not sure of the technology but that’s nice and I’ll take a stronger loft if the ball flight is still the same as the said iron for landing into greens. Plus its mental I know, but I feel great hitting an 8 iron 150 even if down deep its a bit more like a 7 iron.
      I think we can use longer shafts and stronger lofts to our advantage because does it really matter what number is stamped on the club anyway if you hit the ball better? I mean who set the police standards for what number means what lofts? For that matter we could buy 199 set of new clubs and probably be just about as well off in the long run but what fun is that? I like the new stuff and the Callaway name. Been a big fan of their irons for a very long time. Be curious to try out this new iron.

      Reply

      John Mansell

      10 years ago

      Anyone notice that in the pictures of the sole of these new Callaway BB irons they look identical to the old Razr XF irons? I have these clubs, and I believe they are the easiest to hit Callaway has ever produced! Can’t understand how you missed the similarities in the look…

      Reply

      proside

      10 years ago

      Just hit one of these today at the golf store and as we have been discussing at length here the 7 iron put up the same numbers as my 5 iron, same flight and spin.
      This club is not 2 two clubs longer at all. That is a bald face lie. It is stamped 2 clubs shorter than specs dictate.
      It is also a hybrid in the shape approximating an iron, just as a hybrid as we are used to approximate the shape of a wood.

      Reply

      Randy

      10 years ago

      John I 100% agrees with you

      Reply

      john

      10 years ago

      Amazing. So we are in a development race and we compare Sizes.
      So we have a longer shaft. We need to have these custom fitted so they will be shorten.
      The club is closed.
      This is just sickening.
      Can we compare apples with apples and stop the BS.
      Marketing, that is what you pay for. Who convinced you to spend your money?

      Reply

      AWOL

      10 years ago

      So im not buying the 2 club claim that seems to be ridiculous. Plus I think these are kind of boring and ugly looking. The fact the Callaway is continuing to plug along with the same marketing strategy that got all the other big OEMs in trouble baffles me. Again claiming outrageous distance gains. “Hot Face”, “Lower CG” or whatever. They must not pay attention to surveys because these hook lines don’t work anymore. Another interesting thing i found is this hollow iron design, correct me if im wrong, isn’t that essentially the same design that was offered with the Adam a12os sets. If i recall the Adams a12os 6-8 irons where that same design. For me personally i don’t really care what number is stamped on the bottom of the club as long as my distance is consistent. If im hitting a 7i that is really a 5i i don’t care as long as it gets me to the hole.

      Reply

      Bluch

      10 years ago

      Thank you again Golf Spy for continuously enlightening all golfers to what appears to be deceptive advertising.

      Reply

      leftienige

      10 years ago

      Club numbers have become more and more irrelevant over the last 10-15 years .
      I’ve ground out the “7” on the bottom of my seven-iron and replaced it with a “W” .
      There’s one or two gullible people at my club whisper in awe of my mighty strength after I put the ball on the green from 160 yards , then give them a brief glimpse of the sole .

      Reply

      james

      10 years ago

      So Dalton, what line of clubs are you hyping? Come clean.

      Reply

      Dalton McCrary

      10 years ago

      James,

      Go do some digging Podner it’s easy to find out who pioneered club fitting.
      Hype? Please.
      There’s an old saying in TEXAS, — “It’s ai’t braggin’ if it’s a fact.”
      Just like the driver you are supposed to be able to turn the shaft and change the loft and trajectory. There is what is called Marketing Fudging. The Golf Industry takes it to the extreme as they speak flat out Marketing Lying..

      Come clean?
      Excuse me. You don’t believe half of what you read and none of what you are told. So do some checking. Then you’ll have the knowledge.

      Dalton

      Reply

      Dalton McCrary

      10 years ago

      GOLFERS DO KEEP IN MIND THAT EVERY RACK CLUB THE BIG 5 CLUB MANUFACTURERS MAKE ARE ALL MADE TO ONE SET OF SPECIFICATIONS. THE ODDS OF THE CLUBS ACTUALLY REWARDING YOUR EFFORTS ARE SLIM AND NONE.
      You’d still be way ahead of the learning curve to have custom club so you know without question your have a shaft that loads and unloaded where you want at the top of your back swing and unloads at the ball with your natural swing allows it to unload at the ball so you don’t have to make the club perform for you it performs to your swing. It’s this simple golfers. When you skip rocks the first thing you do is find those perfect feeling rocks to skip. When you find those rocks the motion you make is very natural indeed. But when you run out of those perfect feeling rocks and have to settle for one that shall we say is heaver. That natural delivery changes. So imagine if everyone had to skip the same rock, same size, same weight, same everything. How many people would find that one size fits all rock to be perfect for them. That is exactly what you face with rack golf club, I guarandamnteeyou that is no marketing hype, that is a fact.

      Reply

      Randy

      10 years ago

      I don’t know what callaway and these other manufacturers talk about how long there clubs are blah blah blah, the lofts are just super strong and make ppl think they are hitting the ball far lol. All my clubs are (old standard) if you want to say a 48 degree pw and so on, my 7 iron is 36 degrees and I hit it 175 to180 that’s fine for me, new club lofts are a joke anymore.

      Reply

      Large chris

      10 years ago

      So what is a 6 iron?

      To me, simple rules is that it is launch conditions of 6 x 1000 rpm. A 7 iron is 7 x1000 rpm etc.

      Those are reliable Trackman average figures, admittedly from the pros, but it means that if a pro hits one of these clubs and meets these spin numbers then there is no problem.

      If he only gets 5000 rpm with a 6 iron BB then in reality it is 5 iron. For good players spin numbers / control (more backspin equals straighter) are the most important factors.

      If these BBs hit their numbers PLUS one or two clubs extra distance (in other words maintain spin with more ball speed) then it is genuine progress.

      Reply

      Bigleftygolfer

      10 years ago

      As a former plus handicap for the last 25 years now playing on the wrong side of par I may try a two iron and three iron in this club design to replace my Miura tournament blades two iron and three iron as I just don’t generate the same speed to get my c tapers up in the air on those two sticks, how weird would it look having a bag of Miura Blades and scratch wedges in the bag with one or two callaway long irons? But hey if it gets me back on the plus side of things again I am all for it. My clubs par threes start at 215 as the shortest and finishes at 250 as the longest from the tournament tee so a good easy to hit two and three iron may be exactly what the doctor ordered vs. trying to feather a 7 wood to a small green. Please keep us in the loop when and if you get the heads to test…

      Reply

      Person

      10 years ago

      I’m tired of “hot” and “distance” iron sets. I want a set of irons that I can hit a consistent distance, not one that on one magical center hit I hit 30 yards further into some water behind the green.

      Reply

      Dalton McCrary

      10 years ago

      There is just one place you can get that Person. Drop me an email and I’ll share with you. All of the Big 5 Club Manufacturers, and ALL means ALL, make clubs to the exact specifications. A ONE SIZE FITS ALL so to speak. They also make the model they HYPE in 4 different models, one for the tour, one for the rack club, one for what they call custom clubs and all I’m saying is they make clubs for the pro golfer in mind not the weekend golfer. For you, it’s one size fits all get use to it. That attitude trickles down to everything they made.

      Ask yourself, surely there is a Rolls Royce of golf club. Surely one company is above all the rest when it come to putting club in your hands that reward your efforts. And you’d be right there is. One company stands alone. Here is their marketing hype.

      We pioneered club fitting. —– We patented the process. —–
      We set the industry’s standard —- We wrote the Club fitting manual.
      WE STAND ALONE.
      No one can do what we do.
      WE BUILD CONFIDENCE

      Reply

      BR

      10 years ago

      As always, many good/valid points here at MGS & its forums. I have always wondered why major OEM’s would not just state something such as follows:
      AD:
      “Thank you for considering “XYZ… Golf Clubs”. Note our independent testing relates to our specific model clubs with our specific range of lofts/lie/lengths. **We only test our clubs against our on brand clubs**. That helps us measure our success for improvement from model to model which may benefit you the golfer. Our custom loft/lengths are specific to our designs and not representative to a particular standard(note none exist) nor another club brand. We encourage you to contact a club fitter and demo our clubs.”
      At least the company would be demonstrating some integrity and not insult the consumer.
      Just my thoughts.

      Reply

      proside

      10 years ago

      I was looking at adding a second set of irons to play during the doldrums of player’s club issues. The set I’m interested in are the mizuno 850 forged.
      So checking the lofts against my present set, if I bent the new irons one degree more they would be exactly one club more, never mind the shaft length.
      My point is this, if we and the impartial testers like at this site simply looked at loft and length only as a standard for testing distance I believe we would see no more than a few yards from one club to another across all styles.
      Wouldn’t that be fun to prove that these manufacturors and making false claims?
      Would it not also be fair if I wrote a PW on my 3W and claim that I hit a PW 220?
      Fair is fair people.

      Reply

      Jimmy D

      10 years ago

      I’m one of the old guys (74) that plays golf 4 or 5 days a week. I have been struggling for distance with my mid irons for several years and therefore I carry several fairway woods. I hit the new Big Bertha 7 iron (the only head they dad) for over half an hour at the PGA store. I hit it higher, longer and straighter than my old set. I am ordering a set as soon as they go on sale.

      Reply

      Christopher

      10 years ago

      The question is, 2 clubs longer than what? I’d love to see a test where clubs have all the same lofts, lies and lengths then you’ll see results. If the Big Berthas are 20 yards longer, then good for Callaway.

      It’s a shame though as for all this R & D these clubs will actually hurt the average golfer where it hurts the most, the SCORE! They won’t be able to hit their jacked-up short irons close enough to the hole and they won’t be able to hit the long irons at all, as the lofts are too low. So buying into Callaway’s PR is basically a bill for four new wedges and a couple of hybrid’s with appropriate lofts on them. It hurts the game too as no one wants to drop a grand and play terrible golf (they’ll just give up the game) but manufacturers can’t actually make clubs that make you play better, they just don’t know how!

      MyGolfSpy we’d love to see an iron test where all the clubs have the same loft and length. It would be interesting stuff!

      Reply

      proside

      10 years ago

      yes, loft and length only

      Reply

      atThisRate

      10 years ago

      I can see where this is going!
      At this rate, in a few years everyone’s going to have to buy wedges of all different lofts
      The future set will be 18* 4 iron, through to 28* pitching wedge, then you have to buy seperate wedges like
      32 degree wedge
      36 degree wedge
      etc etc to
      52 degrees wedge and then a Sand and a Lob wedge
      So you have to buy 8 wedges at $100 each, plus your iron set

      How stupid do they think we are?!

      I’ve seriously lost respect for Taylormade for starting this trend, and now Callaway does the same, I proudly carry no Callaway or Taylormade clubs, and it’s going to stay that way.

      Reply

      Curt

      10 years ago

      Get rid of numbering irons altogether. Give me their loft values and leave it at that. The games we are playing with loft and shaft length manipulation really test the intelligence of most avid golfers. Never let marketing run your company.

      Reply

      Rico

      10 years ago

      Supporting the game of golf and golf technology as a whole…a person purely looking and comparing loft numbers/shaft length is wrong. Go bend your current irons stronger now and have fun with zero turf interaction and hip high ball flights. Go bend your current irons weaker and have fun complaining that you need to take one more club while you blade the ball because of too much bounce.

      It amazes me that “golfers” complain about having options. The beauty of being a human/consumer is having choices…power to the player right? At the end of the day golf is about you and what you need to make you play the game effectively. If you want zero options…go back to Russia and play golf with shovels.

      Reply

      Phil

      10 years ago

      Think i must be one of the very few that hits hybrids and Woods better than long Irons – then again my swing is somewhat unorthodox…
      As for lower lofts – sure it feels good to be hitting a 7 iron just as far now as 20 years ago even though my driver goes 60 yards shorter. I’m guessing there are many others who feel the same way even if we do know down that we are fooling ourselves a little.
      The only problem is convincing customers that 5 – gw is a better choice than 4 – pw if they aren’t already in possession of seperate wedges

      Reply

      Rex

      10 years ago

      Tony, I believe you neglected to mention that the RAZR X HL was a high value derived game improvement iron initially priced at $599. By value, I mean basic build quality, low technology incorporation and low range component usage….easy to manufacture with high margins… at a very attractive price. It’s like comparing a Corvette to a pickup. A bit disingenuous….

      Reply

      Dance

      10 years ago

      Instead of a standard iron set make up I just play a whole bag of 8 irons, as I get closer to the green I reach for the older ones, and as I get further from the green I reach for the newer ones

      Reply

      Tillman

      10 years ago

      Funny… very funny !!!

      Reply

      proside

      10 years ago

      hahaha awesome

      DJB

      10 years ago

      :) – You should be able to replace your putter with an 8 Iron in approximately 20 years

      Reply

      Martypants

      10 years ago

      Nothing new here. Cup face and max COR in irons have been done before.

      Reply

      joe

      10 years ago

      looks like an Adams hybrid iron from what, 20 years ago with maybe a turbo charger. I dont think ill need these. And if the lengths keep getting longer pretty soon ull need to be 6ft 5in just to swing it.

      Reply

      David W

      10 years ago

      If a 7 irons carries as far as a 5 iron from another set then that 7 iron is going to be just as hard to hit as the 5 iron from the other set. All they are doing is changing the numbers on the lofts.

      Reply

      Jon

      10 years ago

      All manufacturers have succeeded in doing by increasing lofts is to increase the number of clubs that you are obliged to purchase that don’t get used. A 20.5 degree four iron would not go in the bag. It’d go in the closet. My set would end up with irons from 7 to PW and a need for four or five wedges and several hybrids. That makes the price of $1k work out at $250 per iron in the bag – ludicrously expensive. I’d prefer a Miura for that.

      I really think manufacturers should move away from Iron numbers and put the loft on each club now as iron numbers are just plain silly and getting sillier year on year.

      Reply

      Joe Golfer

      10 years ago

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByUYnaVCIAAaWXr.jpg
      I saw this chart on Twitter, which was posted by MyGolfSpy. Check it out, as you will be amazed at the loft changes of irons over the years.
      MyGolfSpy ‏@MyGolfSpy · 12h
      THE VANISHING LOFT DISEASE:

      From @TomWishonGolf book, “The New 12 Myths That Could Wreck Your Golf Game”.

      It lists the average lofts for various decades.
      It has the 1960’s-1970’s.
      The 1980’s.
      The 1990’s.
      The 2000’s.
      One thing that I find interesting is when a shaft company has a shaft fitting website, they still ask how far you hit your 7 iron.
      When I started playing seriously, back in the 1980’s, the general rule of thumb was that if you hit it over 150 yards, you played Stiff flex. Under 150 yards, you played Regular flex.
      Oddly, that same rule of thumb seems to apply on modern shaft fitting websites, yet the lofts of a 7 iron are vastly different.
      My old 7 iron from the late 1980’s was 38*.
      My current Cleveland CG16 7 iron is 31* (the lofts of these Callaway irons are even stronger)
      A seven degree difference in loft, yet they are still using that same dumb rule of thumb for shaft fitting purposes. I seriously doubt the True Temper shaft flexes have changed that much, though the light weight ones are a tad softer nowadays. Shafts like Dynamic Gold seem the same then as now.

      Reply

      Tillman

      10 years ago

      I guess I am simple minded in approaching irons. I am 73 and have been playing for two years… Shoot in the mid-90s on a good day. So, more interested in having a predictable, consistent distance iron by iron plus accuracy.

      If I give up a few yards, don’t care. Course management rules!

      Seems to me that single digit handicap players might care about the difference in distance, but not sure why one wouldn’t just add a club for extra distance (or, in my case, two clubs).

      My clubs were fitted by my club PGA professional and they do their job when I do mine.

      Tillman

      Reply

      David W

      10 years ago

      Amen, I have been hitting a demo i25 seven iron at my local range for a while (I play G20’s) and I’ve hit all the other new irons as well. The i25 isn’t as long (I knew it on the first swing) but it is easy to hit, accurate, consistent in distance, and feels like it’s forged. I will be moving to the i25’s before long.

      Reply

      tomuch23

      10 years ago

      I remember(along time ago) when I bought my MacGregor MAC-TEC NVG 2 irons their pitch was the 360°cup face tech also. That was along time ago but those were the best irons I ever had and could hit them consistency each time. They weren’t the prettiest or lightest though. I’d take a look at them.

      Reply

      mygolfspy

      10 years ago

      Here is a look at that 360* Cup face technology in an iron from 2005:
      http://mygolfspy.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/mactec-cupface-irons.jpg

      Reply

      RAT

      10 years ago

      I remember the MAC_TEC NVG irons ,I gave a set to my son and he still has them. They were state of the art then , what’s old becomes new again if you wait long enough. Callaway re-cycling old ideas.

      Stu

      10 years ago

      waitng for “10 yards straighter!” The next golf marketing phase
      As i am tired of the 10 yards longer or 1-2 club longer claims.

      Why don’t one of the big golf advertising depts come up with that one?
      Is it harder to do or prove. Come on Ad departments lets change it up
      And get creative! LOL

      Reply

      Craig

      10 years ago

      When I started playing golf in the mid 80’s spalding had a set of hybrid irons. Called Spalding Executive. None of the supposed NEW technology is new at all. It just goes round and round in 20yr cycles.
      Wishon designed spring face irons in mid 90’s as well as spring face driver and fairways at the same time. 13yrs before anybody else thought of it. All of today’s technology has been done before. Only difference is which OEM stamps their name on the face and the colour scheme they paint the heads.

      Reply

      Tanner. C

      10 years ago

      what does the number on the bottom of the club really matter when all you need [to do at the end of the day is get the ball on the green and regulations and put the ball in the hole . I think people are too concerned with trying to hit the ball far or further than nothere buddy or match the pros. When they should focus on the game itself they might do themselves a favor get a lower school don’t worry about I will hit the ball less distance but straight any day of week. I have always been able to hit the ball further then most but hae learned that you do not always want distance.
      Consistent straight shots are much m I re important. Peole blame there clubsn. To much
      when they should be blaming there skills and spend more time working on there game ad skills more

      Reply

      RAT

      10 years ago

      Yea and I have ocean front property in AZ. Wasn’t there an agreement with TM about advertising truth?

      Reply

      obo

      10 years ago

      These look like the shovels that will bury the competition next spring.
      #LostMyLunch

      Reply

      Dave C

      10 years ago

      I like the new irons, although I agree that the hype is probably just that, hype. I will not be buying, because I like to have a matching set (if I can) from 4 or 5 through LW (I know, I am anal and would probably get better results by mixing in better wedges). Something about having a matched set that suits my game. Too bad because I will be purchasing irons for 2015, and I really like the BB fairway wood and am considering the driver as well.

      Reply

      TonyG

      10 years ago

      Ah, the oldest trick in the book. Repackage something old call it new enough times and people will believe you.
      Anyone remember Callaway Big Bertha Fusion?

      Reply

      Kenny B

      10 years ago

      OEMs have been jacking up lofts and club lengths for years. So it continues. What I find interesting is that Callaway is promoting a hollow iron with cup face as if this is a new technology. Hollow irons have been around a long time. I remember TM having hollow long irons back in the late 1980s. More recently, Tour Edge produced the EX-3 in 2007 that was a hollow iron with a titanium cup face. Talk about a hot face! And Callaway only uses a 17-4 SS face (probably for cost). I bet if they used titanium they could gain one more club; FWIW :)

      Reply

      CT

      10 years ago

      Sounds like Tony is pissed because he didn’t get free samples. Probably because nobody takes this second rate college blog you have seriously and neither should anyone else who stumbled across this bitter garbage you call a review. Bashing one company for “ambiguous” marketing terms. Should coca-cola stop using the word “refreshing” because they don’t tell you exactly how much more refreshing it is? Get a clue bro.

      Reply

      Tony Covey

      10 years ago

      Wow…and I’m the one who is pissed off? Did you actually read the article…the one that isn’t a review?

      Reply

      James

      10 years ago

      CT either works for Callaway or is a grumpy old man.

      Peter

      10 years ago

      No new iron technology in 2014 can do what is really needed by golfers today – golfers today just need to be better decision makers to lower there scores

      Reply

      The Bear

      10 years ago

      The price point on these irons is way, way too high. $999, in the SGI market. I don’t see how Callaway is going move this product. The new G30s are $200 less. Speedblades are $300 less.

      Reply

      Tom Duckworth

      10 years ago

      Hey I think it’s great they make clubs like these for golfers that need the help. I don’t even care about the guys that want to pump up their egos. They are not what I want now but maybe when I turn 70 I’ll get a set like this. I was glad when I got my friend to buy a set of Speedblades with reg. flex graphite shafts. He was hurting himself trying to hit players irons. My hope is it will make it more fun for us to play together again. I don’t really understand why anyone should get so mad about Callaway or anyone else making irons like this. If you don’t need them don’t buy them. What’s the point of ripping into them.

      Reply

      Barbajo

      10 years ago

      Word!

      Reply

      Berniez40

      10 years ago

      This is a well written article, but it definitely helps remind me of my age. The “newer” technology is definitely there, but as is often the case, it’s not as new as the makers would like us to think.
      For openers, “hollow-headed irons” that actually sport souped-up performance can be back-dated quite a ways. My first experience with ultra hot-rodded hollow-head irons goes back to a set of the old KZG CH II’s that I used to bag. They were longer than anything else out there at the time. In fact, it took the other technology mentioned in this article to come along and help push them out of the bag several years later. Anyone remember when TaylorMade Brought out the Titanium faced RX7-D irons? Not only did they sport super thin titanium faces,but they had THAT OTHER TECHNOLOGY feature.
      There was a time when TaylorMade had legitimate claims to superior distance in their drivers and fairway woods thanks to the R-7 Series sporting what they referred to as, “Inverted Cone Technology.” The R7 and R7 XD’s were supposed to be “The First Irons To sport Driver and Fairway Wood Technology” as they too sported the “Revolutionary Inverted Cone.” You see the cheesiness involved here, but hey–I bagged them because they did what they claimed they could do.
      I’m not knocking the new Callaway Irons, as they are probably very good, and, similar to my old R7XD’s, quite capable of doing what is claimed of them. What I am saying however, is that what is often pawned off as new and revolutionary, is often a new spin on an old idea. Heck, when Adams claimed that “The Hybrid was a new type of club never before seen, I had to laugh, for I distinctly remember reading Harry Vardon’s writings. He spoke for some time about a club that was neither an iron, nor a spoon, but,”…. something in between. “It was like a blob of metal at the end of a shaft. It was an amazing club that got me out of many situations. I had my caddy repair it again and again, until it would work no more.”
      Then when others tried to pawn of larger headed hybrids as a new “Rescue Club”, I chuckled even more. After all, who could help but remember the old “Ginty” club which so many of us sported back when woods were made from wood. It was basically a seven wood head on a four iron shaft. At the time, it was “The Rescue Club.” Heck, it was so highly revered that recentlyThe Louisville Golf Company, makers of fine wooden clubs for those who still prefer the feel of persimmon, contacted the original maker in order to attain the rights to building Ginties under license.
      Nice article, nice looking clubs, and good technology. Let’s not pretend, however, that it is something, as the old Snake Oil Salesmen used to say, “……heretofore unheard of in the world of golf equipment.”

      Reply

      Jon

      9 years ago

      Bernie, yeah I remember the RX7D irons, they are still in my bag. Everytime I go out and try a new iron I bring them along and compare. Have not found anything that seems to perform any better, distance or dispersion. I keep trying, someday the grooves will wear out and I will have to move on. But for now I will save my money. Having said that I can see how replacing my 5 iron with a BB 5 iron, that might go between 1/2 to one but not two club lengths further might be advantageous. But I don’t think that I will be putting an entire set in the bag.

      Reply

      Carl

      10 years ago

      I’m 68, playing R7 super quad that I hit 250. And forged Hogans that fit me! I’m happy that I don’t need new clubs!

      Reply

      Kyle

      10 years ago

      I think it is safe to assume that most of those commenting on this thread, reading this thread, and who know of Mygolfspy are not in need of super distance game improvement irons. With that being said, these are the PERFECT option for the senior golfer and the majority of my membership. Many of you commenting on this thread fail to realize that the majority of rounds played are from senior golfers… Most senior golfers don’t even hit their driver 200 yards!

      Reply

      Regis

      10 years ago

      Actually I’m that senior that struggles to hit the driver 200 yards consistently. I hit my 6 iron about 140. But aside from the fact that I like irons to at least resemble the player’s irons I gamed when younger (these wide bodies look bigger than my hybrids) why is gaming a stronger iron going to benefit me? I’m still going to hit my driver 200, my 3 wood 185, 4 hybrid 170 etc. So , assuming I were in the market for a set of 6 irons (I’m not) and assuming the claims are true, I am either going to have a lot of overlap or 2 to 3 irons I’ll never use. I just don’t see them being an option for me let alone a PERFECT option, so I have to disagree.

      Reply

      Tony Covey

      10 years ago

      Regis, I guess the question in your particular case is ‘how well do you hit your hybrid and your 3 wood’? We’re almost certainly talking about an opportunity to replace a hybrid with an iron (a very hybrid-like iron), and depending on whether or not you’re one of those guys whose gaps are narrower than is ideal on the long end, there’s a remote chance you might be able to dump the 3 wood too.

      The point is, the Bertha irons provide new options, but just as with every other club or set of clubs in the market, it’s not for everyone.

      Regis

      10 years ago

      Tom. I appreciate your observations. My 4hybrid (22 degrees) is one of my favorites, but it did get me to thinking about the golfers I played with over the last 3 years. ( a sampling of perhaps 100). Mostly private clubs though munis as of late. Most over 55. Most with good fundamentals (arguably better than their younger counterparts) but diminishing swing speeds. Hence they struggle to hit their drivers more than 200 yds. Breaking their sets into components-Driver/Fairway, Hybrids/rescues, Scoring irons ,wedges:
      Start with the scoring irons (7-PW). a lot of older clubs in this group though some newer entries (Taylor Made Rocketballs/Speedbladz/ Callaway Xhot/Razr), but almost no true Game Improvement types (even Ping G series). . Some carry 2 or three hybrids, some 4, 5 and 6 irons (same as their scoring irons). Then of course we have the Fairways/hybrids (all different brands -a lot game a 7 wood) to round out the set.
      My point is that these “distance irons” may conceptually replace a hybrid or even an occasional fairway, but virtually no one I’ve played with (< 200 yard drivers all) are going to toss out their scoring irons to buy a full set of these type of irons. Can you imagine re-learning to chip with these? And at the end of the day my "focus" group is still not going to hit their driver in excess of 200 so what have they accomplished? Again just taking issue with Kyle's observation that all Seniors might need "distance irons" and that these would be a perfect option for us (me). Trust me not happening.

      tom S

      10 years ago

      Specs look similar to my TM SpeedBlades

      Reply

      Eric

      10 years ago

      I would rather spend my money on yoga pants for my wife.

      Reply

      Rodan

      10 years ago

      Some interesting stats vs. Apex irons

      BB 4 Iron: 20.5 loft, 39.125 length
      Apex 4 Iron: 21.5 loft, 38.5 length

      the entire set is roughly 1 degree less loft and 1/2 to 3/4 inch longer.

      Reply

      Neil

      10 years ago

      Not impressed. Callaway’s marketing of this is worse than TMAG.

      I haven’t played a Callaeay iron since the original Big Bertha Fusions. Now those were an impressive set of irons.

      Reply

      Michael Capozzi

      10 years ago

      If the soles on these shovels get any wider, they’ll be classified as hybrids.

      -Mike

      Reply

      James

      10 years ago

      You know those fake bullet hole decals you can buy to put on a car? I think there’s money to be made by the guy/gal who comes up fake numbers to put on the bottom of your irons. Can’t wait to hit a 5 iron and show my golf buddies that i hit an 8 iron. And claim it was a knock-down shot.

      Reply

      Jakes De Wet

      10 years ago

      This is such a lot of hogwash. PW with 44 degree loft with longer shaft is in fact a 9 iron so all they do is change the numbering on the bottom of the sole. Do they think we are all stupid or what. ?? Take their drivers. the original BB was 20 yrds longer than the rest, and 8 generations later the new one should now be 120 yrs longer than the generation 1 driver. So who is eeting this bull?

      Reply

      Steve p

      10 years ago

      Stop complaining people! The PW of the original King Cobra oversize irons from the mid 1990’s was at 43*. Paying attention strictly to the lofts of clubs is foolish.

      Reply

      BR

      10 years ago

      I agree, people need to “stop complaining”. IMO, that original King Cobra set ruined any attempt for standardizing iron club lengths/lofts. At least the old Ping Eye II’s stayed pretty close to the blades of old specs…. Regarding all this slot, cupped face, etc, etc, marketing, put them against a Tom Wishon 870 TI in an identical loft/lie/length contest (robot or human) and prove that hype works……

      Loran

      10 years ago

      I think Callaway / TM / everyone else is missing the point here. I don’t care if the iron I use to hit 200 yards is stamped with a 4 or an 8, the real question is (listen up manufacturers), can your iron make me hit that 200 yards STRAIGHTER? If they are just lofting down and adding length to the shaft, then I may hit the ball further than the 6 stamped on the sole, but will it be as accurate as last year’s 6? The real news would be being able to hit 200 yards (I don’t care which iron is used) with LESS DISPERSION! If you need to hit it further, take an extra club – you don’t need a whole set…

      Reply

      IronHitter

      10 years ago

      100% agree.

      All these club manufacturers will keep bringing new sets with new marketing buzz words. They need to run their business afterall. But question every golfer should ask to oneself is – do I really need to spend $$$ for new irons if I bought something recently? If you can’t hit good iron shots with your existing set from a good brand; you need a golf lesson and not a new set of irons. For distance – who cares which club I am using?. If I know – to hit X distance; I need to take my Y club – I got it covered. Now no one is going to give me award (or less score) if I hit 220 with 5 irons or 4 irons! Common sense …isn’t it?

      Reply

      Lou

      10 years ago

      I would Imagine that you can hit a 7 iron straighter than your 5, right? so if you jump into these irons and their claims are true, technically, you would hit straighter. I understand your point though

      Reply

      Desmond

      10 years ago

      Yes, call me skeptical as to real life course results. A 5 iron with a 3.5 iron shaft length? Seriously? Not for the real world.

      As to fairways being tough to hit? I thought so, too, until I hit Callaway’s BBV Series. They made it easier…

      Reply

      Mbwa Kali Sana

      10 years ago

      Iron play is all about précision ,not distance .Once you have Calibered your Iron set for distance and dispersion ,You’re set !
      There’s nothing more to it .
      That’s also why steel shafts for irons are superior to graphite :less flexion ,less twist = more précision ,less dispersion .
      STEEL IS FEEL!

      Reply

      Ryan

      10 years ago

      These irons are extremly chunky and will only appeal to player who can get past that aspect. I wont even be giving these a hit based on looks alone but I am not their target market since I am perfectly happy with my iron distances. Hot spots on the face seem to be a real problem with cast clubs which was one of the reasons I switched to forged but if Callaway has found a way to address this then good on them and I hope other OEMs figure it out as well since I still cant fathom giving a dime to Callaway. I look forward to the MGS full review to see how much of Callaways claims hold true if any.

      Reply

      John

      10 years ago

      With those jacked up lofts I would hope these are 2 clubs longer.

      Reply

      Mike Weill

      10 years ago

      I agree, I have Callaway forged Diablo irons. I remember when a PW was 48 degrees.
      I think more important is the shaft, the engine that drives.
      This is just another marketing ploy.

      Reply

      markb

      10 years ago

      These might be the best irons ever crafted by the hands of man. I’ll never know.

      I’ll also never know what the Big Bertha sub-brand is supposed to stand for in the Callaway family. Is it their alpha-dog standing atop an ever expanding litter of puppies? Is it their Xhot massive top-line GI replacement? Is it simply the name they slap on ANYTHING that they want to move?

      Imagine Ford slapping the name Mustang on everything they produced in 2014. Mustang pick-ups! Mustang mini-vans!

      Reply

      Mark

      10 years ago

      These are not X2hot replacement they are more like Razr XF replacement. High end. X2hot replacement is coming in spring.

      Reply

      cdvilla

      10 years ago

      I didn’t do a deep dive but do they provide gap data? It would be nice to know if I hit my 8-iron (enter loft here) 150 yds, here are the expected distances of the other clubs in the set based on a standard. Slightly related, I thought that the TM RBZ commercials where they hit 230 yd 5-irons was ridiculous… #mindthegap

      Reply

      jj

      10 years ago

      This whole game about lowering lofts to keep ball flight down and help with spin is a load of bologna…They’ve merely changed the make up of a set. We now see an abundance of 4-GW sets instead of the old 3-PW. Can you please tell me the difference here, other than Joe Schmo can claim he hits a 7 iron 150 yards when it really is a 6 iron anyway. This is just another marketing scheme aimed at getting people to buy into a technology that may or may not be better. Instead of relying on the technology they are supplementing their results by changing the # on the bottom of the club. WEAK play and its not just Callaway.

      Reply

      Jon

      9 years ago

      JJ I get that, it seems that the lofts are a marketing ploy. Too bad instead of iron numbers 5,6,7,8 etc. they just don’t stamp on the lofts instead. It would make it more like an apples to apples comparison.

      In looking at the data, if they are getting 17 yards further with the test and you extrapolate the club lofts and shaft lengths it looks like the BB 6 iron really would compare quite closely to a Raz H XL 5 iron. So half the distance is a combination shaft length and loft, then the rest “might” be attributable to the club. So that would be 8.5 yards, just a little less than a club length. That would be an impressive gain if it is really true.

      The article points out one more issue that has always bothered me. Tony points out that often many people can’t hit their 4 iron that much futher than their 5 iron, where as there is a definate difference from say the 8 iron and 9 iron. The reason for that is the gap between higher irons is 4 to 5 degrees and the gap between lower irons is 2 to 3.5 degrees. So it follows that the yardage distances between lower irons are much less.

      To fix that, if a BB 6 iron is 26 degrees change loft on the BB 5 iron to 22 degrees instead of its actual loft of 23 degrees. That way there would be some actual measurable difference in distance. Then scrap the 4 iron altogether, especially for this set. Most people buying this are distance challenged. The profile of the distance challenged golfer would usually indicate that they would not be able to hit a 20.5 degree 4 iron. In the old days that loft would probably be closer to a 2 iron than a 4 iron.

      Reply

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