First Look: Mizuno ST 180 Driver & Fairway Metals
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First Look: Mizuno ST 180 Driver & Fairway Metals

First Look: Mizuno ST 180 Driver & Fairway Metals

It’s been a curious couple of years for Mizuno. To borrow a show-biz analogy, the golf division of the billion-dollar Japanese sporting goods giant has been the darling of the critics, but performance at the box office has been, well, meh.

Mizzy’s overall business in the America’s (they combine North and South) has been operating in the red for each of the past two fiscal years – including a $23 million loss last year – with overall sales decreasing in each of the last three years. While there are no golf-specific numbers, company reports cite severe price competition in both golf and baseball, as well shrinking markets for both as key reasons.

Crazy numbers when considering Mizzy’s iconic status in both sports, especially golf. We’re currently halfway through the 3rd Quarter of Mizuno’s fiscal year and although 1st Quarter sales in the America’s were down 12% (2nd Quarter results haven’t been posted yet), a full golf season of the JPX 900 irons and metalwoods, a US Open victory and the MP-18 launch should give Mizzy a badly needed boost.

To further stir the sales pot, Mizuno is adding another entry to its lineup, the ST 180 line of metal woods.

ST_Woods&Driver 1

Not Another Driver?

Before you start yakking that Mizzy is going all Taylormade or Callaway on us, this isn’t that.

Yes, Mizuno gave us the JPX 900 driver last fall. The ST 180 lineup, however, is an on-schedule replacement for the 2-year old JPX EZ metal woods, which were released in November of 2015. The JPX EZ’s were high MOI and geared towards mid- to high-handicappers, and the ST 180’s represent the natural evolution of the EZ’s…sort of.

The JPX EZ’s center of gravity was among the deepest MyGolfSpy measured in 2016, making it one of the more forgiving drivers of the year, but the CG was also among the highest measured. For the mid- to high-handicapper who needed forgiveness and help getting the ball up in the air, it was a solid performer. For better players, though, the EZ could launch a little too high with a little too much spin.

To make the ST 180 a little more better-player friendly while maintaining the EZ’s forgiveness, Mizuno is taking a page from PING’s playbook: keep the CG as far back as you can, but drop it as low as possible for the forgiveness the mid- to high-handicapper needs, and the lower launch and lower spin the better player wants.

And do it while eschewing overly complicated moveable weights. Or any moveable weights at all, for that matter.

ST_Driver 3

Waffles and Waves

While low and back CG with a high MOI is a neat trick, the recipe is pretty straightforward – thin out the crown as much as possible to save weight while expanding and lowering the sweet spot. But straightforward doesn’t mean easy.

Mizuno thins out the crown by using an internal waffle pattern – think PING’s visible Dragonfly crown, only it’s waffles, and it’s inside, so you can’t see it – to save 5 grams. To expand the sweet spot, the ST 180 uses a special, high-end titanium alloy Mizuno calls Forged SP700. Mizzy says SP700 is about 10% stronger than the more commonly used 6-4 titanium, and it has a much finer grain structure, which helps sound and overall face hotness. In the never-ending hunt for a larger sweet spot, Mizzy says the ST 180’s sweet spot is roughly 30% larger than the competitions.

As Reagan used to say: Trust, but verify.

ST_Driver 6

To get the sweet spot lower, Mizuno has refined its Sole Wave Technology – the little waves in the sole that allow the face to flex at impact. Mizzy has added some mass to the first couple of waves and made those first few waves a little deeper for better and more responsive energy transfer.

Does it all work? Mizzy tested the ST 180 head to head with the Epic and the M2 and you’ll be shocked, shocked I tell you, to learn the ST 180 performed better. Ball speed was identical to Epic and a couple MPH higher than M2, launch angle was a tad higher Epic, and a tad lower than M2, and spin was a wee bit higher than Epic but a fair bit lower than M2.

Bottom line is nearly two yards more carry than Epic and nearly three yards more carry than M2.

Of course, your mileage may vary, and MyGolfSpy will run its own tests come Most Wanted Driver time.

ST_Driver 8

Shafts ‘N Such

Mizuno has a reasonably aggressive no-upcharge list of shaft options, with 12 choices across four flexes, including the Kuro Kage Silver TiNi Dual Cor, the Tensei White, Orange and Blue, and the Bassara E42.

The Tensei Blue is the stock option in stiff flex, while the Tensei Orange is the stock regular flex shaft.

ST_Driver 5

The ST 180 uses the same Quick Switch adapter as the JPX 900, which lets you choose from five standard lofts (7.5 to 11.5) and three upright lofts (8.5 to 10.5). The driver is also available in a high launch option, with loft adjustable from 10.5 to 14.5 degrees. Both are available in left and right-handed models.

Golf Pride’s M31 360 grip is stock.

The ST 180 sells for $399.99 and is on sale now.

ST 180 Fairway Metals

The fairway metal story is similar to the driver story – lower the sweet spot, boost the heel-toe MOI and heat up the face for more ball speed.

Mizuno is using 1770 maraging steel for the face, which is stronger and more flexible than the commonly used 455 stainless steel and can, therefore, be made thinner which can be, therefore, hotter. PING, Wilson, Srixon, and others use maraging steel in their fairway metals, but this is a first for Mizuno.

ST_Woods 2

Mizuno’s Sole Wave and Waffle Crown Technologies are also part of the fairway story, all in the name of saving and redistributing weight, lowering the sweet spot and boosting the whole ball speed thing.

The ST 180 Fairways are available in your basic 15-degree 3- wood and an 18-degree 5-wood in right-handed models, but only in the 3 for lefties. Mizzy’s Quick Switch adapter lets you adjust each up or down 2 degrees.

The Tensei Blue is the stock shaft, and the Golf Price M31 360 is the stock grip. It sells for $249.99 and is also available now.

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John Barba

John Barba

John Barba

John is an aging, yet avid golfer, writer, 6-point-something handicapper living back home in New England after a 22-year exile in Minnesota. He loves telling stories, writing about golf and golf travel, and enjoys classic golf equipment. “The only thing a golfer needs is more daylight.” - BenHogan

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      Nathan Baadte

      6 years ago

      Great article – unfortunately it seems as though all everyone is remembering is the 2-3 yards claim. ST 180 is a beast, love mine.

      Reply

      [email protected]

      6 years ago

      At least it isnt a bunch of bs 20 yd claims……owned every TM, titleist, ping, most Callaway drivers last 5 yrs…
      Can throw a blanket over best shots hit with each…problem with some of em for me is if you dont catch it just right you get weird knuckleball type of flight….sometimes hooky or even straight….mostly TM clubs have this for me ( even though best hits are bit longer)……saw FWY woods today ( sit very flat which i like) and driver looked good…….sure itz as good as anything
      …..even as single dig hdcp my swing is the biggest issue, and by far more inconsistent than any club……so if it looks good, sounds good and gives me confidence than thats as good as it gets……if i want more than i have to work on me!

      Reply

      ryebread

      6 years ago

      Trust but verify is a Russian saying that Reagan “borrowed” and used in relation to nuclear disarmament.

      I’d like to see Mizuno be successful. We’re quickly moving towards only 4 major OEMs being widely available to the average US golf consumer.

      I am not surprised that Mizuno got the driver to be lower spinning than 2017 M2. I think TM missed with the 2017 model. Every time I hit it, it spins higher than I think that it should. Granted, much of that is my swing, but I can hit it back to back with other drivers and it just doesn’t put up the numbers. The 2016 M2 though was a low spinning beast.

      Reply

      Stevegp

      6 years ago

      I like Mizuno golf equipment and the company. I wish them well on these new releases.

      Reply

      Kevin

      6 years ago

      Since the ST 180 is meant to replace the JPX EZ it seems the first comparison to make is against the JPX EZ. How does the yardage, dispersion, forgiveness, ease of play between these two compare? The next comparison might be against big brother JPX 900. If the 180 is just as long and tight but more forgiving, easier to hit and costs less what differentiates the two clubs? If the 180 already competes against (and beats) Epic/M2 where is the 900 market? Applause to Mizuno for their equipment but did they shoot themselves in the foot here?

      Point 2 – search YouTube for “5 Year Golf Driver Test.” Calaway, Ping and Taylormade can’t even average +2 yards per year. Titleist barely does. I’m sure the EZ wasn’t longer than the big 3. So coming from behind to best Epic/M2, even by just 2 yards, is a big deal!

      Reply

      John Barba

      6 years ago

      Did get some clarification from Mizuno today — the JPX EZ is being discontinued, and while the ST 180 is taking it’s place, it’s not really a replacement, if that makes any sense.

      Mizzy is kind of resetting their metal woods lineup — with the ST 180 and an upcoming upgrade to the JPX 900, which will be unveiled sometime in January. The goal is to disconnect their metal woods from their irons lines – so while you’ll have the JPX iron line that contains the Mizzy’s best tech, the MP line will be focused on styling, feel and better player performance – Tony wrote about that in the MP-18 iron First Look piece.

      For woods, they don’t want to tie metal woods to irons, the way virtually everyone else does. So the ST 180 isn’t necessarily a game improvement driver – it’s designed to be a lower spinning driver for the better player, but Mizzy says if a player needs more spin and more help getting the ball in the air, it can be done by adding loft (or going with the HL version) and by changing to a softer tipped shaft. The ST 180 as you can see, doesn’t have adjustable weights – it’s a fair bet that the next model – the direct replacement for the ultra-adjustable JPX 900 – will be ultra adjustable as well. They’re sort of taking a page out of the M1/M2 book – M1 is ultra adjustable, M2 isn’t – the M2 is more forgiving, but better players play it as well.

      It’s an interesting strategy – the whole EZ thing will most likely be going away – both irons and woods, as Mizuno tries to go back to its attribute as a high performing brand for mid to low handicappers. They can’t be all things to all golfers – Callaway and TaylorMade are already doing that, so they seem to be going back to focusing on the core Mizuno customer. It’s an interesting strategy that on the face of it seems sound – the painful part for them is what they’re doing now, and that’s resetting the entire lineup.

      Reply

      John Barba

      6 years ago

      After reading through the comments, here are a couple of points of clarification – take it or leave it:

      1. Several posters do get it – what I believe Mizzy is trying to say – and understand the 2 yards longer thing was WAY down on the list in the product info discussed – is that this driver, in their view, is on par with the two other leading drivers of the year in terms of spin, launch angle and carry distance. So yah, if you’re in the market for a new driver, they’d like you to consider the ST 180. Not sure that’s a crime.

      2. What you do with that info is clearly up to you – if you think Mizzy is trying to convince you to dump your new Epic for 2 more yards, well, you may need to ease up on the cynical pills. That said, if you really wanted to trade up, they’re certainly not going to stop you! ;-)

      3. Of the OEM’s I deal with, Mizuno tends to be among the most responsible when it comes to performance claims – they tend to focus on the tech of their products and how it can impact performance. We talked for an hour two months ago – in great detail – on their enhanced grain flow forging process for the new MP-18 irons, and why it mattered. As much as anyone out there, they try to keep it real.

      4. We fully anticipate the ST 180, as well as another driver Mizzy is planning, to be tested in the 2018 Most Wanted Driver program. We’ll see how they stack up then.

      Reply

      Chris Brooks

      6 years ago

      2yds in golf is ALOT remember it’s a game of millimetres…that two yards is all it takes to carry that bunker you can’t now..! and it’s about 3/4 of a club less which may mean 9 iron instead of 8..!

      JUST SAYING

      Reply

      PKC

      6 years ago

      You do realize that there is 4 degrees between irons and each degree is an average of 3 yards difference, so on average 12 yards between clubs. With some people with higher swing speeds it may be more like 4 yards per a degree and a 16 yard difference between clubs. So 2 yards is not 3/4 of a club and two yards of carry with higher backspin than epic only means less roll when it lands so most likely less overall distance and more spin can also mean more off target shots for higher swing speed golfers. The reason clubs aren’t one size fits all.

      Reply

      Pasi Kilpinen

      6 years ago

      I would rather take 2 yards shorter drive 75-100% on the fairway than 2 yards longer drive missing fairway left or right….

      Reply

      風清陽

      6 years ago

      I should have waited

      Reply

      Scott Fawkes

      6 years ago

      We are really calling that a win now? In your own controlled independent testing you got 2 more yards than another driver. All of these drivers are basically the same.

      Reply

      Tony Hall

      6 years ago

      Get rid of the shocking blue ffs.

      Reply

      Chisag

      6 years ago

      Nice write up John. The Mizuno MP600 would be in my top 5 all time greatest drivers, and this seems to be following in its foot steps. The MP600 was ahead of it’s time with the Epic like track and moveable weight, so clearly Mizuno knows what they can do with woods if they put their minds to the task. But alas I really dislike blue. You would think Mizuno would offer clubs in Black and Blue, excuse the pun, or at least a dark gray.

      Many seem to forget there are golfers that have to buy a new driver every year. Maybe they haven’t bought a new driver in 5-10 years and this is the year they buy one. So for them, an extra 2 yards might at least get a ST 180 demo in their hands. Mizuno isn’t the first name for average golfers looking at a new driver, so finding out the ST 180 is $100 cheaper than an Epic and 2 yards longer could be a bigger deal than many forum golfers think it is.

      Reply

      Aaron Nimz

      6 years ago

      I hit the M-2, Epic, and my 910 D2, and my Titleist had the highest avg/longest drive.

      Reply

      Gary Nichols

      6 years ago

      I game a JPX 825 driver and JPX 800 3&5 woods. Love them all. I couldn’t hit the 850 driver consistently at all. Liked the 900 but not enough to to trade. I will go hit these tomorrow.

      Reply

      Tim Lundy

      6 years ago

      Anyone who has been here at MGS for any length of time should know that all current drivers are within a few yards of each other. Any gains are going to come by tailoring a club to your swing with the proper loft, shaft and ball. It remains to be seen whether this club actually has a bigger sweet spot as that’ll show up in the inevitable MGS testing.

      Reply

      Jeff Phelps

      6 years ago

      Resale value will be horrible

      Reply

      Steve Barber

      6 years ago

      #2yardsfromhappiness

      Reply

      dcorun

      6 years ago

      The club looks really great. I like the idea’s they came up with. The problem is, I’m hitting my 2017 M2 past where I used to on all the courses I’ve played for years. Trading in now for 3 extra yards is just not going to happen. Good luck to Mizuno though. They make very fine golf clubs.

      Reply

      Tom Duckworth

      6 years ago

      I’m sorry to hear that their sales numbers are so bad. They make great gear and seem to be a good company as far as I can tell. I like the color blue but a blue driver is too much for me. I’m planning on new irons this year and a combo set of the MP-18 series are on the list to try.

      Reply

      Garret Roach

      6 years ago

      I’m so confused by people complaining about 2 yards. What do you want them to say? They aren’t saying to drop your M2 or Epic and buy this for 2 more yards. However, they think they have something either a little better, or at least as good as the two ‘best/most popular’ drivers on the market right now and they just want you to consider it. There are still a lot of people who have no idea Mizuno makes drivers, woods, or hybrids. I just don’t understand it when people complain just to complain. Does it make Mizuno redo their ad? Does it make everyone else go, “yeah, 2 yards. what a bunch of idiots?” What exactly do you expect to accomplish with those types of comments? Maybe call Mizuno and voice your frustration. Or, take these kinds of stories out of your feed. Or, better yet, smile. Be happy for another day on earth. Be happy for what you have. Don’t be that person who is negative about the things that don’t matter in life. Spend your time and energy on something productive.

      Reply

      Scott Fawkes

      6 years ago

      Relax bro. It isn’t all that you’re making it out to be. Do you realize it’s meaningless when the company with the smallest chunk of market share in drivers comes out bragging about 2 yards. It’s just not enough to turn the consumer on these days. They’d be better off getting out of the wood game and putting all of their dollars into their irons

      Reply

      Garret Roach

      6 years ago

      It doesn’t matter that it’s Mizuno and two yards. We read the same thing when Taylor Made or Callaway says it’s their longest driver ever. Or when Ping says it’s finally their straightest driver of all time. The point is still the same. What do you want or expect them to say when they release a new product? Complaining or ridiculing any company doesn’t stop the machine. Instead it clogs everyone’s feed and makes more lines of division. The old saying of “if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all” means nothing anymore. I’m going to take my own advice too. Time to spend energy on something else.

      Reply

      Al

      6 years ago

      Another motivational speaker?
      Relax, Garrett. People love to complain. It makes them feel better about their own sorry lives.

      Reply

      Robert Canady

      6 years ago

      Those that are mocking the 2 yard gain. I don’t think Mizuno is saying if you already own an Epic, go out and buy a ST-180 for those 2 yards. More like if you are in the market for a new driver and testing them, make sure to try this one against the Epic. Could be wrong, but that’s how I usually look at yardage claims by companies.

      Reply

      Sithembiso Mweli

      6 years ago

      Looking good but not convincing.

      Reply

      Nevets Soriedem

      6 years ago

      So a whopping 6 ft?

      Reply

      Greg

      6 years ago

      Love the look of these. Been using predecessor, which is JPX EZ driver and am quite happy with it. Interesting to see how the new model performs in tests vs. the old JPX EZ and current competitors.

      Reply

      Jordan

      6 years ago

      I cant wait to buy this club in 2 years when its $150 on ebay barely used.

      Reply

      Eardi

      6 years ago

      Every time a new driver gets reviewed by MGS…the same lame comment.

      Reply

      Al

      6 years ago

      At my swing speed I don’t think I could justify spending $400 for another 1/2 yard on my tee ball.

      Reply

      Dave

      6 years ago

      Love their irons ,bet this is also a winner . Good for mizuno and less than TM and titleist. Think I’ll give it a test.

      Reply

      Ric

      6 years ago

      They look outstanding ,but looks aren’t everything!!
      Lets see the numbers
      Price is too much .
      Again only the wealthy play cause they can PAY!!

      Reply

      Bryan

      6 years ago

      How are they too expensive? They’re a hundred bucks cheaper than almost all other manufacturers.

      Reply

      Randy Waddell

      6 years ago

      Mizuno is letting their clubs do the talking. A hundred dollars less than Epic and 2 yards longer, it shows they intend to up their game to the competition. Good for you Mizuno!!! With a good fitter of Mizuno clubs, I bet they can increase the average Joe’s distance by more than 10 yards!!!

      Reply

      Ryan Garner

      6 years ago

      I would rather have a drive that improves dispersion of 2yards

      Reply

      LeftyBradd

      6 years ago

      I bought the JPX 900 at the beginning of the season off of ebay because nobody in the US carries a Left Handed model so it was a bit of a blind buy. Had a speedster X flex shaft which may have been a bit much for me but it was close. The feel of that head was just amazing and the look of the blue crown was memorizing.

      Then like a true idiot/golf junkie, I got a gift for a full bag analysis at Club Champion and hit the 2016 M2 with the Chrome Elements shaft and was bombing it literally 25 yards further than the Mizuno.

      Yes, I believe the fitting had something to do with it but you can’t argue with the launch monitors. So…I bought the M2 for a stupid amount of money.

      Now seeing this, I really want to see this perform against my 2016 M2 and I want to drop my Chrome Elements shaft into the Mizuno head and see what happens. I play the mizuno MP54 irons and already am eyeing some MP18 SC’s in my near future.

      So many clubs…so little time, too much tinkering. I should just spend the money on lessons but what fun would that be.

      Reply

      Michael Riley

      6 years ago

      Love your comments!!
      I laughed my ass off !! Your nuts, just like the rest of us when it comes to equipment, especially Mizuno stuff. We can’t possibly have too much Mizuno gear, all of it. I even spent $60 for a doz. Mizuno golf balls, golf balls!! What??

      GO MIZZY

      Reply

      LeftyBradd

      6 years ago

      Thanks Mike, it’s a problem, if I look at my Mizuno problem and my boubon problem I might know why I have no money left. Although I can enjoy two of life’s great pleasures.

      Al

      6 years ago

      Lefty, what club head speed did the fitting reveal for your driver? Just trying to make a comparison to see if I would benefit from the Elements Chrome shaft.

      Reply

      Steve

      6 years ago

      I bought the newest JPX EZ driver this year. I put a chrome elements 6F4 in it and it’s goes super long and straight. It goes a lot longer and straighter than my old R15.

      Reply

      Tony Sheppard

      6 years ago

      Seriously…2 yards?

      Reply

      Bryan

      6 years ago

      That’s a big deal when it’s a hundred bucks cheaper and goes farther. Even if it was a tie but was a 100 less that would make the decision easy, if someone buys for the results instead of advertisements.

      Reply

      Berniez40

      6 years ago

      I remember when Mizuno put out the MP 001, and they were so hot for their time that they actually made huge inroads into the fairway metal world. Even mid-cappers were swinging them because even decent connection translated into superior distance for the time. This was at a time when everyone said Mizuno has great irons, but their woods are kinda……meh….It looked like they were going to turn the corner back then. I sure hope they do it this time.

      Reply

      Perra Sandström

      6 years ago

      Mizunos big problem is that they are sponsoring boring players. They need to sign a Jordan or a Day or a DJ or a Rory or a Justin.

      Reply

      Bob

      6 years ago

      Yeah, seeing PGA guys playing the clubs gives the signal that it’s okay for me to buy the same clubs. It makes the clubs better and I don’t have to think as much, just follow what others do.

      Reply

      JSilva

      6 years ago

      Perra, you squarely hit the nail on the head. Who plays your equipment is what sells unfortunately.

      Reply

      Timo Virtanen

      6 years ago

      How about roll? 2 yards more too?

      Reply

      MattF

      6 years ago

      It’d be interesting to see it head to head with the JPX-EZ.

      Reply

      Edddieboy

      6 years ago

      I currently have the TaylorMade M2 driver 2017 model. So far, it’s been great. I just can’t justify trading it in with the hopes of gaining 3 more yards. It just doesn’t seem worth it.

      Reply

      Kenneth Schramm

      6 years ago

      Stop already with all of the distance claims. Funny how over the last five years my new equipment keeps getting longer yet my distance to the pin hasn’t decreased.

      Reply

      chuck harvey iv

      6 years ago

      It’s about time for their woods, they have great irons.

      Reply

      Eron

      6 years ago

      These look beautiful! if they feel pretty good, I’m snagging a set

      Reply

      Golfinnut

      6 years ago

      2 whole yards! Well let me just run right out for this one. That will mean I can hit an 8-iron instead of …. uhh … an 8-iron into par 4’s? C’mon …. 2 yards! If you are going to claim it longer, then be substantially longer.

      Reply

      Skip

      6 years ago

      but then that claim would be complete BS lol

      Reply

      Drew

      6 years ago

      $400 for a club…wow. Inflation alert.

      Reply

      Carolina Golfer 2

      6 years ago

      You haven’t priced drivers much lately have you. $400 is actually a pretty good price for all the current models.

      Reply

      JB

      6 years ago

      And that is about $100 cheaper than everyone else who start at $499 typically.

      blake

      6 years ago

      What’s the stock loft on the non HL version? 9.5 i assume?

      Looks simple from a design standpoint which is why I love my M2. My back up is the old MP 650 which honestly is a bit longer than my M2 but a decent amount less forgiving.

      Will totally give this a chance to beat out my M2.

      Reply

      Carolina Golfer 2

      6 years ago

      Well at $100 less and 2 yards more than Epic, that seems like a pretty good price per yard to me!!

      Love the looks also.

      Reply

      Jonny B

      6 years ago

      It’s unfortunate, but if Mizuno wants to be a major player in the North American golf marketplace, then they need to act like one. They need commercials and ads. They must improve their exposure on tour by sponsoring key players to bag their clubs and wear their logos.

      They have a loyal following for sure. They make a great product. But competing over here they are failing at obviously. In the red for a couple years while Callaway has been killing it.

      Sell balls and putters too.

      Reply

      Lucas

      6 years ago

      Went really well for Nike, and taylormade thats on the ropes

      Reply

      Luke Mitchell

      6 years ago

      Alot less moving parts then the prior generation Mizuno drivers.

      Reply

      Nick McDonald

      6 years ago

      I often think, whilst missing a green 20 yards left or right, or missing another two putt, or chucking a wedge…..’if I only I had 2 more yards off the tee’

      Reply

      John Lingle

      6 years ago

      The no upgrade shaft options have me seriously considering this one. Can’t wait to see more testing on these.

      Reply

      Guy Crawford

      6 years ago

      2 yards? At least they aren’t claiming 20.

      Reply

      Mark Reckling

      6 years ago

      People are finally catching on to the BS from Club makers

      Reply

      Josh Wurzberger

      6 years ago

      That thing looks sexy!

      Reply

      Eric Miles

      6 years ago

      I’m not too concerned about 2 yards, but once I got my Epic dialed in it has been the most accurate driver ever in my bag other than my Titleist 905T that I used for 9 years.

      Reply

      Dan DeBarr

      6 years ago

      o wow. 2 yards.

      Reply

      McaseyM

      6 years ago

      Love the look of these! very cool design and if it outperformed the Epic and M2…..that’s saying a lot.

      Reply

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