![[VIDEO] Rolling Back the Ball – Golf Ball Roundtable](https://uploads.mygolfspy.com/uploads/2020/09/ballroundtable_rollback_std-1-300x200.jpg)
![[VIDEO] Rolling Back the Ball – Golf Ball Roundtable](https://uploads.mygolfspy.com/uploads/2020/09/ballroundtable_rollback_std-1-768x512.jpg)
What happens when you get golf ball experts from competing manufactures in the same room?
Plenty of spirited conversation.
Dean Snell (Snell Golf), Adam Rehberg (Bridgestone), and Alan Hocknell (Callaway) sat down (virtually) with MyGolfSpy staff to discuss a variety of pertinent golf ball topics.
So, what do the top names in golf ball manufacturing have to say about rolling back the golf ball?
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| Driver Ping G30 | Hybrids PXG 0317 |
| 3/4 IRON PXG 0311XF | 5-GW Srixon Z 565 |
| SW PXG 0317 | LW PXG 0311 |
| Putter EVNROLL |
4 years ago
PGA Tour scoring average since 2010:
2010 – 71.148
2011 – 71.033
2012 – 71.065
2013 – 71.086
2014 – 71.063
2015 – 71.162
2016 – 71.181
2017 – 71.108
2018 – 71.104
2019 – 71.213
2020 – 71.099
I can see how distance has created a real scoring problem. When Bryson starts shooting 59’s every week, wake me up and we discuss options for the pros.
4 years ago
In general “rolling back” in any sport is not a great idea. Making courses harder but not longer is also a big challenge. My solution, eliminate the use of Tee’s at the pro level. Drives are shorter, skill challenge is bigger.
4 years ago
Pros driving it further every year affects Amateurs indirectly as course designers make courses longer which increases maintenance costs and therefore course fees. We all agree ahy ball changes can’t affect Amateurs who have a hard enough time as it is so it seems bifurcation is the only solution. Snell’s comment about some pros hitting 8 iron and other 4 iron is beside the point, those big hitters have the advantage now so why wouldn’t they have the advantage if the ball is rolled back as well.
4 years ago
If you want to hit drives closer to the green , it;s easy and you can play the same ball does’n’t cost you anymore money. MOVE UP ONE MORE TEE BOX. did you hear me
4 years ago
Good point. At my course, the whites (“regular” tees) used to play almost 6,600 yd. They redid it all the tee boxes, now the whites play 6150. Yet tons of idiots still play it at almost 6600. Totally slows down play. If you’re hitting long irons into most par 4’s & can’t reach any of the par 5’s in two, MOVE UP!!!. Otherwise I’m suffering playing behind you since your ego is writing checks your game can’t cash. Is it really fun to shoot high scores simply because your ego tells you so?
4 years ago
I watched the video and read and reread the comments. As far as equipment don’t change a thing. Set the course and let them play. The professional golfer now are athletes. They work out bulking up to hit it further. The question will be for how long. The stress,strain and torque on the body will take its toll. Everybody up in arms over Bryson. If you look at his body of work since the first of the year, he’s all over the place. He happen to pull it together for the US Open. For us middle agers and seniors we should enjoy it while we can as we are closer to losing athleticism and flexibility.
4 years ago
I don’t understand your logic , Being fit will help you in the long run those same twisting and torque applies to all golfers body’s, not just the ones who hit the weights. . Working out increase flexibility, durability and that helps prolong a career .
4 years ago
I understand his logic completely. I’m so tired of this distance debate. When the first sub ten second 100m was recorded they didn’t increase the length of the race. Let these guys keep pushing until margins become smaller and smaller. You only need to worry when there’s no separation anymore . Look at formula 1! The margins are tiny but they still compete and separate
4 years ago
In track, the 110m high hurdle times are only falling in minuscule increments b/c of body, speed, etc. In golf we will reach that point when the athletes and equipment meet. Until then, don’t change a thing other than have courses adjust tee boxes and have all entered into yardage program apps for us to use and adjust handicaps accordingly.
4 years ago
This whole thing could have been prevented if people could check their egos and quit trying to play like a pro. Manufacturers started making longer and straighter balls for the amateurs so they could hit as long as a pro even though they may not be as athletic, problem was because there was no standard or regulations on balls. So those same distance gains that the amateur were getting the pros were too. Amateurs got 30 yards longer so did the pros, Its like constantly chasing the dangling carrot on a stick. If we don’t stop it or at least freeze it where its at then this is a losing battle and everyone will suffer.
It reminds me of paintballing, if anyone remembers that sport and how fun it was. The moment manufacturers started making electronic triggers and the sport became more about how many paintballs you can shoot vs strategy the entire industry collapsed on its self because the recreation players couldnt keep up and couldnt afford that much paint to be competitive. The “spray and pray” mentality. See the similarities.. “I don’t care where i hit the ball as long as i drive it 400 yards”…..absolute joke and poor mentality. Not what the sport is about and its definitely not the idea of a true athlete. Sure you have to have some athleticism to hit that far in the first place, but its like they found a loophole in the sport and are taking advantage of that. At this point if it continues in this direction all courses are going to be made up of a tee box and a green 400 yards away because there is no value in hitting fairways, no point in doglegs if I can just drive it over the corner. 600 yard par five…oh no problem I can make that in 2. Give me a freaking break. I can’t believe how many people think this is ok and that there should be no standard in equipment for a sport…..its the equalizer, its what makes ones athletic ability stand above others!!! Accept it, that there are better players out there than you and we cant keep compensating for a lack of athletic ability by not standardizing equipment or at least bifurcate it, because the sport requires more time, practice and money than what amateurs can pay.
4 years ago
If they change the ball then it is going to be a loss of sales profit for the big manufacturers. Most golfers that play regularly have swing speeds of less then 100 mph..Bridgestone makes a ball that at that speed that is longer than their Tour balls and sells for less than $20.00 for 2 dozen. Do you think I will pay $50.00 a dozen for a rool back ball? Just saying.
4 years ago
One piece balls for the Pro’s!!! Let the Pro’s show their talents with driving range balls! Amateur Golfers play for fun and don’t hit any ball that long that they really benefit significantly… Making it harder for casual golfers will not do golf clubs any favors!
4 years ago
So if the New York Giants and/or Jets kickers make too many field goals, should they move the goal posts back to the Lincoln tunnel?
4 years ago
Let’s just make the ball bigger, a 2″ inch diameter should do it. This would slow down the longer players and punish the short hitters for hitting it short. It would also add some challenge to putting, especially if we narrowed the hole to 3.5 inches. Make a putting a real test of skill.
Add some windmills.
Or, just let the fairways grow back to reduce the role, cut the rough out almost altogether so anyone has a chance to get it on the green, and slow the greens to a 7 on the stimp meter (pros hate slow greens).
4 years ago
Dean Snell is always great for any golf conversation just for his comedic value! I love talking with him, whether it’s about golf or hockey. “Cut the fairways…. I think there are balls still rolling in Phoenix!” Hilarious dude!
4 years ago
This is a professional golf problem, due to the fact that these guys are training harder and smarter than before. No, the ball isn’t the cause of this problem but rolling it back FOR THE PROS ONLY seems like the easiest thing to do. This is similar to metal vs. wooden bats in baseball. We are basically playing on a surface that can’t keep growing, just like a baseball field. The bombers will still hit it the furthest, as they always have, but the courses will be more competitive and sustainable. Again, I’d like them to roll the ball back for the pros only.
4 years ago
Agreed. There is no way to limit or restrict the natural athleticism of individuals, nor would you want to. We cant keep having 7500 trending towards 8000 yard courses and be sustainable. We cant change the club designs because it would affect the amateur players way too much and cost them even more to buy new clubs that comply with whatever rules. I already spent $3k on a golf set, not doing it again for awhile. Its has to come down to the ball the pros use and course management when they are in town. There has to be tiered balls in regards to pros vs recreational play. With bifurcated balls, manufacturers would still make their nugget in sales between balls being purchased and amateurs can still maintain the distance we need and pros will have to work more. The courses win, the amateur wins, manufacturers win, the only real suffer would be the less than 1% of us who are pros and now cant just use a driver and wedge on par 5s. Why so many people have defended the pros in this blog blows my mind. The only reason they have a job is because of us….. Because of the 99% of us who play and fund this whole game. They make millions a year because of the popularity of the sport among the ranks of the common people. Make them work harder for that money, make them show us why they are pros and have better skills then us. I don’t want to see pros like Bryson able to reach every par 4 in one or on 80% of the holes using a driver and a wedge. So many seem to have this idea that if we bifurcate the balls the amateur’s are cheating and that’s not the case. We already have some type bifurcation in the game in regards to Women’s vs Men’s tees. Are we saying women are cheating because their tees are 30 yards closer than the men’s tees…….no. No one complains about that. And if a woman player wants to hit from the men’s tees then they can and have that choice. Just like if a amateur wants to the bifurcated pro ball or the longer amateur ball.
4 years ago
I read the comments above and most probably have not played golf that long . The ball has gotten tremendously longer. A test was done using the early 2000 ball and today’s ball and it is 30 yards longer. I’ve Jenn playing golf for 55 years. This is supposed to be a game of skill. The ball goes much farther and side spin is much less. They need to have parameters on the ball. Senior tour players are hitting it farther now than they did in their prime. Im hitting it farther now at 66 than I did at 56. What am I complaining about you ask…. I’m watching people I play with hitting it longer and much much straighter. They don’t have the same skill, but get away with bad shots because of the ball. The ball has taken away the skill of the game. You can hit a ball out of the rough and it just stops!! So hitting it in the rough isn’t a penalty. All major sports have a universal ball and golf should have one too!!
4 years ago
Except for women’s basketball are different size from the men and even college and pro footballs are shaped different……
4 years ago
It is not the ball, it is not the clubs – the last US Open has proven that a properly prepared course can defend itself. Get rid of these “park” golf courses the US is famous for and golf companies can improve their equipment for ever!
4 years ago
So does this mean you’d like US courses to look like that ugly crap I see sometimes when I watch some of the Open courses? I think it’s not as simple as snapping your fingers and changing the courses, a ton of it depends on geography.
4 years ago
Grow the DAMN GRASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4 years ago
Take the Driver out of play for the pros!
4 years ago
A possible variation could be to have more short holes – perhaps 6 to 8 so called par 3 holes ( ranging between 140 and 300 yards). – with only 2 long holes.
In fact the par rating of a hole is irrelevant in professional golf tournaments – only the total stroke score counts even in match play. Just label holes with yardage rather than a par rating for pros.
The tee boxes could then be brought forward on a some holes for pro play and courses would not have to be lengthened. Greens could be lengthened and narrowed or tiered to demand accuracy.
Scrub or water can run across fairways from 300 to 350 yards out and fairways can still have width. There are ways to sensibly diminish the effectiveness of monster drives and still preserve current courses.
4 years ago
I don’t know what the problem is. When the idiots at the top who only kneel to money realize we have stopped buying equipment because we can’t admire our periodical long hit, they will leave us alone. There will always be people making equipment for those who don’t give a rats ass about the USGA and their brass. The majority only play for fun not tournament golf.
4 years ago
I started playing in the 70s, played in the 80s as a teen and into my twenties, was a low HCP.. Now I’m in my 50s and I’m hitting it further on the the same courses than in my 20s and I have a bad back now… Reality is harsh, we have been allowed to increase our expections of distance in the modern era, and they have become normal. Its the equipment , not the players, at a levels.
4 years ago
IT is not the ball…..it is the clubs plus the swing speed and center hit of the Pro. that is working so well…….Irons and Drivers are flexing and releasing when a pro hits it well over 100 MPH. Amateurs do not have the swing speed or the control to make a centered hit that gains much of anything from the club. So a top Pro hits an average drive right at 300 yards, if there was no flex in that driver face he would be at 285 or less…his 175 yard 8 iron would be back to 165 yards tops……the ball adds at most 6 yards but the modern club face is adding 10 yards on the irons and over 15 on the driver for sure….and when the swing speed gets up to a few of the pros they are gaining 25 yards or more on that same driver.
4 years ago
This isn’t a golf ball or driver issue, it’s a lawn mower issue. When the tour isn’t in town, mow the course as normal. When the tour comes, stop mowing every fairway at 300 yards, grow a foot of grass that you can’t find the ball in much less hit it. Bring in the fairway to a width the pros will struggle to hit with a driver bring it up to a height they have to hack the ball out of. Grow nice deep grass all around every green missed shots will disappear into it and require a hack out.
Have a few holes where they can let it out but even it out say 50-50, this would be good to bring in the ball strikers giving a chance against the bombers… I think a good lawn mower guy could fix the problem on just about any golf course.
4 years ago
DING
This is the correct answer.
4 years ago
That is the right answer, only problem is the PGA Tour is a money machine and they are not going to give up the money tournaments make off TV. if people stop watching pro’s struggling to make par….and equipment companies are not going to sell clubs and balls if pros are constantly struggling at 1 or 2 over par…(death to a club company if their boys/girls are shooting over par with their clubs/balls).
4 years ago
When men’s tennis became a serve dominated game, a fuzzier ball was introduced. When men’s javelins started sliding into the stands, they changed their aerodynamics and COG. The PGA Tour elite are neutering the iron and strategy elements of our game.
While this little round table was cute. it was meek and underwhelming from some of the best minds in golf. Disappointed Chris didn’t press on how ball speed gains can be taken into account (deeper dimples, MGS longer fairway grass, clubhead cc caps….)
4 years ago
Pure stupidity to even think about rolling the current golf ball back, but the USGA & R.A. aren’t the sharpest tools in the box. Advance the game of golf, not put it back into the stone age.
4 years ago
Glad you lumped the USGA and stupidity in the same sentence. Those blue bloods have been sitting with their thumb up their ass the past 20 years, I thought they were supposed to be monitoring the game? Isn’t that what they tell us?
How can you stop the evolution of science and fitness related to sports? If you’re old enough to remember the purple people eaters, the Minnesota Viking defense of the early 70’s, they had 2 Hall of famers, Carl Eller and Alan Page. Cam Newton, a quarterback today, is bigger than both of them. When I was playing high school basketball in the mid 70s, we were told NOT to lift weights, it would bulk you up too much. Wow, did that turn out to be wrong.
Forget making the fairways narrower, the US Open showed that when they get real narrow, nobody hits them. And I’ll put my money on the big hitter hitting a 9 iron out of heavy rough versus someone else a short hitter hitting a 6 iron
4 years ago
Changing the ball is futile as this is about golfers who are in shape and use scientific techniques and skilled coaches. There is one way to roll back distance again and that is to adopt a short tee so that angles of attack or lowered and lofts are altered.
This would also help regular golfers who hit down on the ball.
At least that would level the playing field for all.
4 years ago
Why can,t our game just be left for the millions of players it has to enjoy and play under what ever conditions the guardians of the game impose? Over many years they have nurtured,developed and given golfers the opportunity to enjoy a sport available to those who just want a social game,those who want competition and those who have enough of the necessary skills to make a living. not only by playing the game but by designing eye catching courses.
4 years ago
I have asked this for years, if the top players are so good why not put all that skill in play? Hit the fairways, hit the greens and make the putts. Roll back the ball? Nonsense. Make the elite player display elite skill, and I don’t mean the single dimensional “hit the ball a mile” skill. If that’s the best you have, you belong on the long drive tour, not the PGA tour. People have asked me why I enjoy golf so much. The answer is easy, I enjoy solving the puzzle each hole and each shot presents. That means hitting a tee shot to a part of the fairway to set up my next shot. Think of it this way. Did the NBA raise the hoop because LeBron could dunk so easily? No they did not, why, it’s simple, many other players would suddenly have a disadvantage because of LeBron’s distinct ability. Leave the golf ball alone. Perhaps part of a solution might be make missing a fairway much more costly to the players next shot strategy.
4 years ago
Agree, use the lawnmower, don’t change the ball or other equipment limits.
If at 300 yards off every tee there was a wall of 12″ deep grass and 10″ deep rough down the sides (just for the pros) you’d see a different bunch of kids winning every week.. Let it grow around the greens too, miss an approach and it disappears…. it’ s good to see the pros making doubles and triples every once in a while.
4 years ago
Didn’t Bryson prove that theory wrong at Winged Foot?
4 years ago
That totally makes no sense. Foot long grass will slow down play and why would we want to do that? Why even hit out to the 300 yard marker, let’s just put a ball in play there & play the hole from there. As for narrowingi the fairways, well, then no one will hit them. And the big hitter still has an advantage hitting a 9 iron versus the other guys six iron (did you watch the US Open?).
4 years ago
The last I looked MLB has not made the ball parks bigger overall. If someone breaks the 9 second mark in the 100 meter dash are they going to lengthen it to 110 meters??
I agree with the comments if the ball is shortened then the tour events may be only won by a handful of people. Feel is important in Golf. What happens if the ball is rolled back? Your feel will have to be totally reset. That is not going to happen immediately. One would have to practice much more than they may have time to do so. Frankly this concept will shrink the game so forget about growing the game. USGA and R&A, GET OVER IT. So what if there are more scores in the low 60’s and 50’s. Get over “defending par”, A score is a score. You are going to everyone shoot 54’s. What was wrong with happened at Harding Park in the PGA?? Maybe the USGA needs to pay more attention to the PGA. I have just about had it with the USGA, idiots.
4 years ago
Bryson DeChambeau won the U.S. Open because he was the best putter. He was the 9 th longest driver off the tee. To his credit he was stellar out of the rough and frankly, beyond mediocre as a driver. If his swing speed is beyond 130 mph like many younger golfers, why penalize his hard work. Bubba Watson was recorded in 2008 having a swing speed of 136 mph. That’s God given talent. Reducing the distance the golf ball travels defeats the athletics of golf. Isn’t that what golf wanted? To get rid of the idea that golf was a lazy man’s/ woman’s sport. We’re talking about golf during football season because of athletic golfers. The USGA needs to get woke. Distance is a good thing.
4 years ago
So what exactly is the issue? Pros hitting the ball too far or scoring too low? Maybe we just make the hole half the size for the pros.
I say leave it all alone as long as the manufacturers are meeting the rules set by the R&A and USGA for the equipment requirements.
4 years ago
Changing the ball is NOT the answer. As one of the panelists said, if the ball is rolled back 30 yards for the Tour pros, it’s rolled back 30 yards for everyone. Do you really think that’s going to sell ? That means that Bryson, DJ, Brooks and the big hitters are still out there 300 yards and the rest of us are now struggling to find 200. Not going to work and bifurcation of equipment isn’t the answer either.
4 years ago
If you have to change the ball (for God knows what reason), make it for the Pros only. That is, when they step on the first tee. the USGA/PGA gives the Player 3 doctored balls with the restricted flight. At the end of the round, they return them for range use. Simple solution, no issue. The OEGs make their money from the bogey golfer that is always looking for a leg up, especially as one gets older. Don’t need to make the game harder then it is for us normal guys. If you feel the need, you could do the same for College and the Corn-Ferry. Ditto for the Champions if needed.
4 years ago
Well, they raise the basketball rims to 12 ft in the playoffs and make the football field 200 yards long for the super bowl, right? LOL Great short podcast, but any thought of rolling back balls is completely idiotic. If the USGA cares so much about the scores, eliminate par 5’s by just calling them par 4’s. Augusta would be a par 68. Wow, that would suck the excitement out of the game. No one’s tuning in to the back 9 on Sunday at the Masters to see players make pars on 13 and 15.
All the talk about Dechambau at the US Open, folks, he was -6 after 72 holes. That means he averaged 1.5 strokes under par a round It’s not like he shot 20 under. If 6 under par for any golf tournament offends you so much, get a life.
4 years ago
It seems to me the discussion is:
1. Off the mark. Ex: All the talk after the Open was that Bryson won due to distance. If that was case why didn’t the other 9 top distance guys join him exclusively in the top 10? He PLAYED better overall.
2. It is not the length alone that should be discussed. It is the forgiveness and directional control of the distance. Clubs and balls are far too helpful in promoting a straight ball. Bring back directional control as a skill and long for sake of long will eliminate itself among golfers who are competing.
I know these guys are good, but the equipment does not penalize mishits. Thus it is smart to whale away rather than consider the amplification of mishits by additional distance in any direction.
4 years ago
For years I have heard this claim. The answer is NO. This is like telling a NFL team your offensive line or defensive lineman can’t exceed a weight of 250k which by the way was the average weight back in the late 70’s early 80’s. As a mid-handicapper, I am not so sure all the advancements made in the last 20 years particularly the golf ball has shown any evidence golfers lowering their handicap. YES, Pro tour players do it a mile long but that is a small percentage of the population. Golfers are athletes and like every professional athlete, today are bigger and stronger. Viewers, Spectators, and YES even amateur golfers want to see the ball fly long.. Who doesn’t? If the USGA has a problem, then the simple fix, grow the grass longer in the fairways like they had when Jack and Arnold played. I like to see a study conducted by the USGA on this and then come back and tell us the ball is making all the difference. Don’t build longer courses. Don’t lengthen the course, simply scale back the course and let the grass grow and let nature take its course!..
4 years ago
I think you’re right in many ways, more narrow fairways and thicker rough. But you can’t scale back the length of courses to make them more manageable and affordable without changing at least the ball. The last thing you want is all the pros playing a shorter courses so that they can just drive the green on every par 4 and totally bypass the efforts put into growing out the rough.
Unfortunately, I think many things went wrong with the golf industry. First the manufacturers have had too much influence on the game. Regulations should have been put in place well before now. Now everyone is scrambling to control something that is getting out of hand. And nobody wants to scale back because we all like driving bombs out there. Second, skill needs to be the focus of the game. Shaping shots, controlling distance, putting, hitting fairways that should be what the game is about. People like Bryson found a gap in the games armor. I cringed when he said he is going to try to add 25 more pounds so he can drive it 380. Really dude……you don’t even care if you hit a fairway because your entire goal is to drive it as close to the green as possible so you can just pitch it up there. Is that what this game is about and that type of play that should be rewarded. It’s comparable to like a long range marksman using a 20x zoom scope and laser dot-versus someone that has skill in its rawest form with iron sights. There needs to be a difference in tiers of players so that the 99.9% of us still can enjoy the game. We can’t keep having longer courses, we can’t keep manufacturers driving golf course design and skill, but we have to have something tailored for the majority. I see the only way to do this is have separate tiers of equipment between pros and the 99.9% of us who play the game and need help. And if one of us hacks wants to pay pro equipment or amateur equipment then so be it. Let us as the consumer decide how we want to play the game and make the pros work for it! I would be just as excited to see Tiger or DJ or whoever play golf regardless if they drove it 300 or more yards. Because I like to see them show off their skills not their length.
4 years ago
I think the real issue is the cost of maintaining a golf course that will be used by both amateurs and pros. They have to keep making the courses longer to accommodate the distance gains by the pros and yet, when not being used by the tour, they still have to maintain it even though the amateurs don’t hit it as long. This makes the game more expensive for 99% of the players because those costs have to be passed on. And slowing the fairways down or letting the rough grow longer or putting in more trees won’t necessary work if you hitting the ball 300+ yards. I don’t really know what the answer is, but for the good of the game, something has to be done to keep the game growing and affordable.
4 years ago
This is not about Tour or elite players, this is about the golf played at local clubs and courses. Why do municipalities or investors need to acquire, develop and forever more maintain 160-180 acres when 120-140 will serve the same purpose. That is only possible if the ball is rolled back. Costs should be proportionately reduced, along with a reduction in time spent playing. Does it take more time to walk 7 miles or 5 miles, shorter courses will reduce time. My recommendation is to increase the size of the golf ball, this will raise the center of mass of the ball and make it easier for beginners to get the ball in the air. When costs, time and difficulty for beginners are addressed the game will have an easier time thriving at the grass roots level. The pros will still be awesome to watch.
4 years ago
No other sport has allowed both its game and its hallowed sporting arenas to be decimated by the equipment manufacturers. Baseball regulates the ball and the bat to ensure its stadiums aren’t compromised, likewise tennis and cricket. Why on earth has golf allowed it to get this far before they dial back the golf ball. Get it done before the sport is completely ruined.
4 years ago
I totally agree with you. THE reason for this fiasco is that the golf equipment industry is much more lucrative and hence, more powerful than the other sports, which after one’s youth is over become a spectator sport as opposed to the lifetime game of golf.
4 years ago
I don’t understand why they aren’t looking at the length of grass on the fairways. Some fairways on the PGA tour are cut so low, they are like the greens at my home course. This would reduce roll out and lengthen the hole for PGA guys. The rest of us need all the length we can get, even after teeing it forward.
4 years ago
This is a no win situation. Reducing golf ball distance is not the answer. The longest hitters will still have a significant advantage no matter what level of golf ball performance is mandated. Not every baseball people is capable of hitting 40 home runs a year. Does that mean the home run hitters should be punished by mandating use of a lower performing baseball? The PGA needs to live with it and stop trying to punish certain pros because they are physically able to hit a golf ball longer than others.
4 years ago
What is the normal pros driver angle? – 3, 4 – maybe 5. What about the irons? They are playing with equipment that we as amateurs can’t get or couldn’t hit if we did. The shafts are unbelievably stiff, something an amateur couldn’t even begin to bend. Pros are in much better golfing shape, have access to the best equipment and coaches and we as amateurs complain we can’t hit the ball as far or as accurately. Changing the ball only harms the amateurs. You must separate the equipment the pros use versus the equipment the amateurs use. That’s the only way you’ll be able to approach achieving a reduction in distance from the pro’s perspective.
4 years ago
Pros, except Bryson, have 8* to 10* of loft on their driver. He’s the only one with a 5* driver, same as the long drive champs.
I agree they need a different ball, the courses aren’t long enough for them to have to display all their skills. Hale Irwin won us opens hitting fairway woods and 2 irons into par 4’s.
4 years ago
I think they could change the ball slightly and get the desired effect. Make a minimum cover thickness for the golf ball. if the core is slightly smaller, and the cover is thicker, it should spin more. If it spins more, it will fly shorter for high speed players and not much differently for slower speed players because they do not tend to spin it as much due to lack of speed. Yes, there are modifications club techs can do to drivers to fix that, but, they tend to make it harder to hit straight when you do…… So, smaller core, thicker cover, increases spin and fixes the problem. Theoretically of course……
4 years ago
I agree with Snell, this discussion is stupid. If the USGA actually does this rollback I vote for Mr Snell to start a new amateur association that uses his common sense. I’ll be happy to give him the money I used to send to the USGA.
4 years ago
Here, here!
4 years ago
Please don’t mess with the golf ball. I’m 70 years old and struggle to hit the ball over 165 yards.
Bryson won the US Open with a combination of distance, short game and putting.
4 years ago
As a physical therapist and member of the 1st class for TPI, I said way back in the early 2000’s that with current concepts of training golfers to be athletes will crush the ball compared to the history of golf that had many non-athletes competing at the professional level. It has become a distance game but I am not in favor of rolling the ball back, how about softer and narrow fairways, higher rough on a regular basis (not just in the majors except for the masters) to penalize players for not hitting fairways. Now Bryson just won by bombing it with super high rough but that will not be the norm and will not be able to continue it with that success rate. Rolling the ball back doesn’t change anything, the bombers will still be the bombers and hitting shorter irons into greens than the non-bombers. Golf has athletes now, isn’t it great!!! Just wait till we get a superior athlete that plays the game, heads will roll. Just my thoughts and thanks for listening.
4 years ago
Is about the evolution of fitter better golfers. Is like giving Usain Bolt heavier shoes cause he ran too fast.!? Get out of the way and let them play!!
4 years ago
15% IRL reduction. No bifurcation, move up one tee box. This will bring the 353 avg down to 300, the 320 avg down to 272; my 250 to 212. The game is using to many resources in land, water, maintenance.
4 years ago
All that is needed is that all professional golfers, use the same brand and make of balls in the tournament that they participate in. Golf ball companies place bids to have their ball played in specific tournaments.
4 years ago
Dean Snell was exactly right. Nothing good will come from adding a governor to the golf ball. With the exception of a handful of curmudgeons, nobody wants to watch elite golfers hit it shorter. The game is evolving as it always has. I, for one, enjoy watching more athletes playing the game than ever before.
4 years ago
Just like in baseball years ago when Sosa, McGuire and Bonds were hitting missiles out of the park. Those were the best days of watching baseball. No one wants to go see a game full of singles or Bubba Watson hitting 275 yard drives. Either get stronger, more flexible, along with more club head speed, and be more accurate (see how hard it is to do ALL of that, you have to be GOOD) or get out of the way!
4 years ago
Simple …. Taker away the fore caddies and spectators from showing the pro player where their ball ends up. They get their 3 minutes to find it themselves. If not, they head back to the tee hitting 3 just like the average Joe does.
4 years ago
Thats something Ive wondered about the mechanicsof for a while Because, if there are spectators, they’re going to make it easier for pros to find their balls. And if the tour said fans couldnt help, but then *some* players were getting assistance on the sly while others wouldn’t that’d just be a huge mess
But, in a world where something like that was actually possible, I’d love to see pros have to track and find their balls like the rest of us. Keeping track of the ball you have in play is a big part of golf, and having that variable entirely removed for professionals (who *should* need that assistance less than the rest of us) seems somewhat antiethical to me. But the reality is, theres no practical way to enforce this, unless you remove spectators permanently, which is never going to happen.
4 years ago
Rolling back the golf ball is like telling a pitcher he throws too fast or a NFL wide receiver he runs too fast or jumps too high. Come on man get over er r these guys are good and it fun to watch.
4 years ago
We all saw what happened at Winged Foot. Longer courses? We all know that issues.. Money, land, resources. If the course you are playing is “too long”, you are on the wrong tees… I started playing golf over 50 years ago and at 70+ don’t hit the ball that much shorter than ever (230-240 on soft Pacific Northwest fairways). The cheapest fix is the ball. It is also a disposable item unlike a driver.. Is it the BEST fix? Who knows. It’s been done before with the banning of the “small ball” and the game just moved on. If the rules change and I lose yards I’ll just move up a tee. The US Open was a joke. The fairways were as narrow as could be. NOBODY could hit them. If the rough was any longer you would start losing balls. It was a game no one wants to play. I got so bored I turned it off.. Lies 10 ft. off the fairway that were unplayable and par 5’s reachable with short iron seconds.
4 years ago
The problem is that it isn’t just the pros. I belong to a Club in a small town in Illinois. In the late 60’s, early 70’s it held PGA tournaments. We’re now having to lengthen our course to be able to attract even Women’s events. In our regular Tuesday night league we had a young man hit a drive that measured 340 yards. I have no doubt that the ball manufacturers can develop balls that give diminishing returns for higher and higher swing speeds.
4 years ago
Simple fix. Require an 80-compression ball as a rule. Thing is, the tour WANTS the distance. It’s just the USGA that has the problem.
But please do not bifurcate equipment. You can split rules in how it’s played, but the reason equipment does well is that it’s the “same” as customers – at least in its regulations. We all know tour guys get good stuff, but the same rules apply. It’s important.
4 years ago
You didn’t see Snead ask Jack to “Whittle” down his driver when him and Johnny were pealing the cover off the ball…. Distance hitters have always had an advantage since the days of old, no matter the size of the driver or the juice in the ball. Records were meant to be broken, and brake they will. Play on!!
4 years ago
None of this would disadvantage the longer hitters, they would still be long, but it would require far less land and resources to build/maintain golf courses. Golf was as popular, likely more so, in the 70s and 80s than today and back then hitting a 300 yard drive was huge. Is the game negatively affected if a “long” course is 6800 instead of 7800? And the long guys hit it 300 instead of close to 400? The average golfer should also see a decrease in costs as courses will be less expensive to build and maintain. What’s the better solution – keep buying more land and stretching golf courses increasing capital investments and costs, or change the rules? Eventually, staying on this course, courses will need to be 8500 yards to prevent pros and good ams from just bashing driver and having wedges in.
4 years ago
There are way too many golf courses now as it is. Look around in most states and see all of the courses that have either gone out of business or the quality of the course has went in the crapper. It’s expensive to run a course, and unless you have the memberships, you just can’t do it. Too many courses dilutes the memberships, and with that goes the courses. Coming from someone who knows too well about a couple of really good local courses that have gone out of business because of this. I’m sure all of you know of some also.
4 years ago
Well said Scooter! It’s that simple!
Congrats to Bryson, his whole game was great!
4 years ago
Wonderful discussion. Hope you post the entire conversation someday.
4 years ago
Bifurcated equipment is not new and it has not detracted from the allure of the sport involved. Professional baseball uses wooden bats and amateurs can use metal. Is anyone complaining about that?
4 years ago
I agree! It’s really that simple. There is no need to bifurcate all the equipment, just the ball. Have an amateur class and tournament level ball. And golf is such an individual sport. If you want to play the tournament balls and I want to play the longer amateur balls on the weekend, is that not our right especially if we are still adhering to the rules of the game. It better to do this than make people completely change their sets to adhere to new golf club metrics or putting cups the size of basketballs on the greens.
4 years ago
I would definitely prefer to rollback the ball rather than change equipment. I spent way too much money at one time to get a custom fit driver with aftermarket shafts. Distance will always be a factor in competition no matter the ball. Jack was able to hit over 300 yards with the old wound balls. But what is unsustainable is longer courses. The R&A and USGA already regulate every metric of equipment, it seems like the best solution would be to regulate balls more. And I hear so much against bifurcation. Why….? 90% of us will never be pros and have no business hitting from black tees anyway. If your not playing in a tournament as most of us aren’t and we are just playing for the weekend……who cares if my amateur ball goes farther than the tournament ball I use. Is it really that bad to just bifurcate the ball depending on the type of play. If you’re just a weekend warrior play whatever you want and if you want to play in a tournament play the regulated tournament balls.. seems simple enough to me if people could actually be honest about their game and that their 300 yard drives are actually more like 250.
4 years ago
Look, This great game is hard enough without deadening the ball. I am a senior who is still able to hit a 200 yard drive, and feel this is a great achievement. Hitting great shots is really, giving one the enjoyments of the game. I am sure the average player wants a more lively ball, not a dead ball. If it happens and I hope it don’t, the golfing industry will be the loser. Thanks
Titleist ProV1 Golf Balls
Dana Ayer
3 years ago
Banning the use of tees would be a simple way of reducing driving distance, and would stay within the spirit of the game, whereby skill would play a greater role in a long, straight drive. It is also in keeping with the rest of play, where the ball must be struck lying on the ground, whether from the fairway or on the green. It may need to be implemented along with some basic restrictions on the length of the shaft (tie the length to the loft of the club, with shorter lengths required for higher lofts, and a limit on the length of the driver shaft. This change may help prevent a work around the elimination of tees, i.e., a move to longer shafts to compensate for the lost distance if tees are banned.