Golf, Data & The Analytical Mind of Sal Syed
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Golf, Data & The Analytical Mind of Sal Syed

Golf, Data & The Analytical Mind of Sal Syed

Three years ago, Sal Syed was a 7 handicap. Not bad for a guy who had never taken a lesson.

Today Sal is a scratch golfer.

Usually one has to take a chainsaw to their game to lop seven strokes off their handicap – we’re talking swing change, lessons and lots and lots of practice.

While we can’t speak for the practice part, we can tell you Sal didn’t change his swing, and he still hasn’t taken a lesson. Instead, Sal analyzed his game with surgical accuracy and let the data tell him what to do.

Sal, you see, is CEO of Arccos, and his journey to scratch shows just how valuable advanced analytics can be.

Arccos - Sal Syed Image (1)

“My Putting Sucks!”

Sal is a pretty smart dude, with a BA’s in Computer Science and Math from Ohio Wesleyan and an MBA from Yale.

“As we started Arccos, I was golfing a lot at Yale,” explains Sal. “We started tracking traditional stats – fairways hit, greens in regulation and number of putts.”

That set of stats told Sal a very ugly, but very incomplete, story.

“I was hitting 14 out of 18 greens in regulation, but I’d have like 40 putts. So I was like ‘Oh my God, my putting sucks!’ So I practiced and practiced, but nothing was improving.”

It wasn’t until Arccos added a modified strokes gained analytic that Sal learned the truth behind the old Ben Hogan axiom – if you want to sink more putts, hit the ball closer to the hole.

“Arccos showed me my approach handicap was high – I was hitting my approaches like a 12 handicap,” he says. “But my putting was like a scratch, so I was working hard to improve something that was already pretty good.”

“My approach game was leaving stuff short and missing to the right, so I started working on stuff before a round. I’d hit more approach shots while warming up than I ordinarily would, where I used to be taking more putts, because I thought putting was my problem.” – Sal Syed, Arccos CEO

That, in a nutshell, is the difference between raw data and advanced analytics. Raw data tells you the what – that you’re a 7 handicap averaging 40 putts per round, but a deeper dive can often tell you the why.

“It’s really about smarter decision making, knowing what my strengths and weaknesses are, and playing to my strengths,” says Sal. “I’ve had three holes-in-one in the past three years, and the only reason is that I know for sure how far my irons go. On a Par 3, I’ll pace back two yards at the teebox if I have 137 to the flag, to optimize my odds of a hole-in-one because I know my 9-iron goes 139.”

Arccos Caddie - 4

MoneyGolf

Advanced analytics isn’t just knowing the numbers; it’s about knowing why the numbers are what they are and how to use that information to improve performance. Michael Lewis, Billy Beane, and Brad Pitt made advanced analytics famous with Moneyball, and it’s been just over the past 3 or 4 years that we’re seeing that same level of golf analytics becoming available for the likes of you and me.

“If you think about it, golf gives you an Excel spreadsheet for a score card. No other sport does that,” says Sal. “It’s just numbers and a grid, and then you’re putting more numbers in. Golf is all math, and whoever makes the better mathematical decisions is going to have a huge advantage.”

Syed says golf is even more suited to advanced analytics than baseball.

“I was speaking on a panel at MIT’s Sports Analytic Conference, and we were discussing the applicability of advanced analytics in terms of helping improve performance and analyzing strengths and weaknesses. On a scale of 1-to-10, baseball is a 10, basketball is a 7 and every other sport is from 1 to 5. Golf is like an 11, because every event is isolated and discreet. It’s not like you’re reacting to a pitch – you can get even more granular, advanced and accurate than you can with baseball.” – Sal Syed

A Caddie In Your Pocket

Yeah, Jordan Spieth won the Open Championship this year, but don’t for one-second discount the role caddie Michael Greller played in keeping Spieth’s head right in that final round.

“100 years ago, C.B. MacDonald – one of the founders of the USGA – wrote that the caddie is an institution and a mentor well versed in the game and the course,” says Syed. “And if you go against what the caddie recommends, you’ll invariably make a bad shot.”

Arccos Caddie - 1

Most sports tend to be fluid and dynamic, requiring subconscious, instinctual decisions by individual players. Golf is different in that you have to make a deliberate and conscious decision before every shot. Bad decisions – and bad results tend to snowball.

“That allows you to get into your own head,” says Sal. “You get frustrated, and you continue making bad decisions and, as a result, not perform to the best of your ability.”

Arccos Caddie was introduced this past May, with the goal of bringing a Michael Greller or a Steve Williams to your right front pocket.

“Only 3% of golfers actually have access to a real caddie. That means 97% don’t – that whole experience has gone missing,” says Sal. “The ability to step back and objectively think about the situation goes missing. We’re trying to bring back something that’s gone missing in the sport.”

Arccos Caddie 3

Arccos partnered up with Microsoft in what is undoubtedly the deepest, broadest and widest real world application of analytical data in golf. It not only takes into account your past performance and your history on a specific hole, but it also looks at your history on similar holes on other courses.

“Golf holes have only so many distinct varieties. So when the dogleg happens here, what’s your tendency? It knows what clubs you’re better with – you might be better with your 9-iron than your wedge. It knows your unique strengths and weaknesses and it knows people who are similar to you and how they’ve faired on this hole. It knows the trouble spots and it knows where scoring comes from.” – Sal Syed

Arccos Caddie also checks in with the local weather bureau and knows what the wind is doing, how you perform in the wind and the impact of the wind. It then recommends an optimal strategy for that hole. And it’s all USGA conforming.

Plays Like

In the software/app world, if you don’t have something new every few months you can quickly become yesterday’s news. With that in mind, Arccos Caddie this month is adding a new feature, called Plays Like Distance.

“On TV, you can hear the type of conversations caddies have with their players,” says Sal. “The caddie will pace off the flag and say ‘It’s 148, but it plays like 132 because it’s downhill and downwind.’”

Arccos Caddie 2

Plays Like Distance takes into account elevation, wind and other environmental variables and gives you, as the name would suggest, what a shot will actually play like. Your typical GPS app or watch, of course, doesn’t know uphill from downhill, it doesn’t know what the wind is doing or in which direction it’s blowing, and it doesn’t know whether it rained yesterday and how it would affect roll or how soft a green might be playing. Plays Like Distance does all that in real-time.

“We’re pulling in weather from multiple data sources, and running algorithms based on historical facts that are pretty darned good. It’s pretty accurate – basically better than any human can do under similar circumstances.” – Sal Syed

While Arccos Caddie is USGA conforming, The Plays Like Distance feature – at this time – is not. Syed says the application is in the works.

Too Much Tech?

How much info is too much? When does all this data become overwhelming? And at what point is the amount of work needed to collect the data (i.e., tagging or other in-round fussing) simply become more hassle than it’s worth?

“The key is to collect and present information in a simple way,” says Sal. “Here’s an additional data point, then it’s up to you. You’re the CEO of your golf game; you make the call.”

“We’re always talking with users, and we want to simplify the golf experience to make it more enjoyable. I think it’s more complicated now because you, as a golfer, are completely alone and don’t have the input of a caddie. I feel golf is more complicated without a caddie than it is with a caddie, or with Arcoss Caddie.” – Sal Syed

Syed says Arccos is very much focused on the traditional golfing culture, and everyone in the company plays at least once a week. The goal is to make the system as seamless as possible, and Syed admits there’s still a little bit of work to do.

“For example, when you have a penalty shot you have to go into the app and do an add,” he says. “When you pick up a putt, we’re going to give you those one-tap gimmes, so you want even have to tell the system. It will know when that happens.

“It’s important to us to make a system that’s not getting in your way all the time. But the information has to be the right information at the right time. That’s why Plays Like is key because it’s born out of observation and conversations with real golfers. ‘What do you think it plays like?’ You hear that conversation 20 or 30 times a round. If you don’t have a caddie, you’re having that conversation in your own head.”

And although short on specifics, Syed does admit Arccos knows some golfers don’t like the whole phone in the front pocket thing. “As you’ve heard it, we’ve heard it too,” he says. “For this year you’ll have to keep the phone in the pocket, but hopefully we’ll have some cool announcements in the future.”

If you’re in to shot analytics technology, there’s certainly no shortage of options out there for you. Whether it’s Arccos, Shot Scope, Game Golf, Sky Caddie or any one of the others, the technology is evolving quickly and the challenge, of course, is how to make collecting and using that data simpler than just filling in your scorecard/spread sheet with Fairways Hit, GIR’s, Up ‘n Downs and Putts.

“When you’re out golfing, you’re out golfing,” says Syed. “You should not be collecting data. That should happen by itself.”

Price and Availability

Arccos Caddie is a premium purchase within the Arccos 360 app, and it accesses a database of over 75 million shots and 368 million geotagged data points on more than 40,000 courses. You get a 5-round free trial and then get to choose from a tiered subscription program: either $7.99 per month, $39.99 for six months or $49.99 for 12 months (plus a 30-day free trial). The Arccos 360 unit itself sells for $249.99.

For more information about the entire suite of Arccos products, visit ArccosGolf.com.

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John Barba

John Barba

John Barba

John is an aging, yet avid golfer, writer, 6-point-something handicapper living back home in New England after a 22-year exile in Minnesota. He loves telling stories, writing about golf and golf travel, and enjoys classic golf equipment. “The only thing a golfer needs is more daylight.” - BenHogan

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      Brett W

      7 years ago

      I’m a user and I love it!
      I have a GPS that I use for yardages even though Arccos can provide that, mostly because my GPS unit has a cradle attachment to my buggy.
      I’ll play the entire round with my phone in my pocket and won’t glance at it once and turn off wifi and data so there are no battery issues.
      AFTER the round I actually enjoy reviewing the accuracy of what it’s recorded and moving the pins to their correct positions and watch my individual handicaps of each aspect of my game get updated.
      It’s given me insights that I never knew about like the need to work on my chipping more (although don’t we all) and that in 20 rounds of golf I only miss left with my 3 wood when I do miss which tells me I have a small setup adjustment to make. It’s also told me I’m a better putter than I thought I was which has actually helped my confidence. This is just a small couple of examples of how the feedback has helped both practically and mentally.
      Admittedly it does make mistakes due to inadvertent club drops etc but when you’ve got a sensor on the end of each club I’ve also found that I’m more “gentler” with my clubs as well ;)
      If you’re a golf data nerd, you’ll love it.

      Reply

      Brett W

      7 years ago

      Oh and the tour analytics dashboard is sweeeeeeeeet!!

      Reply

      John Longeway

      7 years ago

      Have you guys seen the gen i1 smart golf ball?
      This looks like a great idea for increasing your putter skills where most of us can use some positive feedback.
      Look on indiegogo.

      Reply

      Gavin johnson

      7 years ago

      Sign me up

      Reply

      Hardcore Looper

      7 years ago

      For a slightly down-market alternative, check out Golf Pad GPS. You can go with tags, but I pair it with a cheap refurbished Pebble watch. It’s definitely not what you’re getting from Arccos, but the price point is much lower, and the data is eye opening. I definitely know where I need to be practicing now. I’m also seeing where I have clubs that I hit about the same distance.

      Using the watch to mark shots takes virtually no time at all.

      Reply

      C

      7 years ago

      This awesome for anyone who wants to take an analytic approach to the game and understand their weaknesses better than those who will continue to scratch green FIRS and putts on to a score card and continue to practice the same way they always have. Let bygones be bygones and those that realize the potential to alleviate wasted time tracking stats when there’s technology to ease the process for you. Could probably shed some serious light for people on where their scoring issues come from without having ever considered it. But those that want to get better will, and those “traditionalists” who want to play persimmons clubs with balata balls will…

      Reply

      sam Rad

      7 years ago

      Is there not 2 types of golfers, those who have caddies and play 4 days in a row for a living and me, who is also the caddie , goes very week, uses a simple voice gps, then its all about my swing skill, knowing the limits of my equipment, my guesstimates, my execution. And when you land that second shot two meters from the flag, and look around to see if anybody saw that approach,felling like the King of the golf world! That’s the human side of the game and the feeling we all play for. And I never looked at a screen! I know Technology has a part to play in improving the golfer but I’d rather rely on my own skills and enjoy the rewards I create .

      Reply

      TR1PTIK

      7 years ago

      I’m really intrigued by Arccos as they seem to be the only company in this market space that is continually pursuing and achieving advancements in technology. However, the one caveat that will keep me from purchasing is having to have a phone in my front pocket. I always have my phone with me on the course, but I like for it to stay in the cart.

      I’ve been using Game Golf for a couple years now and while I do enjoy it, I feel the company and their products have stalled – they teased grips with Golf Pride over a year ago and have yet to make anything of it; they dropped the GG Classic device from their product line and lowered the price of GG Live, but have yet to even hint at a new device; and aside from a minor update to the way Strokes Gained stats are displayed and filtered, there have been no meaningful refreshes to the software in some time. Still, I will continue to use GG because I don’t have to carry my phone in my pocket and the tagging helps me maintain a pre-shot routine. Throw in the considerably smaller (potentially more durable) sensors that don’t require batteries and it will likely be some time before I make the jump to Arccos.

      That said, I hope they prove me wrong.

      Reply

      xjohnx

      7 years ago

      Come on, you know you want to be the guy with a belt clip for his phone.

      But really, I think it’s just a matter of time before they add a separate device that clips on to your belt and either transmits to your phone via bluetooth. Hopefully it saves your data to be transmitted later via bluetooth so you don’t have to rely on the constant connection to your phone and also drain your phone battery even faster. The PIQ sensor system uses a sensor that clips to your glove to track your shots (and more) so you don’t have to have your phone in your pocket if you don’t want. I believe it does rely on bluetooth though. So I’m sure arccos is close to something like this and aren’t ignoring plenty of feedback similar to yours.

      Reply

      Tony Covey

      7 years ago

      I’ve found the phone in the pocket thing to be an unjustified concern. That is to say, everyone I know grumbles about it, but then after a round or two with Arccos, it’s just not a big deal (and I have an iPhone Plus). I know the company is working on a workaround, but for the time being, it’s not a dealbreaker for me.

      Regarding Game Golf and sensors in grips – they ran into patent issues. That is to say somebody other than Game Golf already had the patent. If you’re wondering who, look to the golf company that ships Arccos sensors with its drivers.

      Reply

      Tim Dotson

      7 years ago

      After using the Cobra connect technology powered by arccos, I can see adding arccos to the rest of my bag

      Reply

      Mark Carey

      7 years ago

      It’s definitely an asset from a data perspective. I question the longevity of the sensors. I have played about 150 games since I bought the system last year and I have about 4/5 of the sensors are no longer reading the impact

      Reply

      Mark Carey

      7 years ago

      I have already replaced 2 sensors and I am having issues with additional ones

      Reply

      Cooper Mcgavin

      7 years ago

      Hi Mark – thanks for the feedback. Please contact us via [email protected] and we will replace any dead Arccos 360 sensors. They are fully warrantiee for two years and designed to last 5+ years.

      Christopher

      7 years ago

      I’ve used it for 28 rounds so far. I thought I was a good bunker player because I always get out. The Arccos stats, however, say otherwise – because while I get out I’m not getting down. My memory and belief are not what the stats say – so I’ve got something new to work on. Arccos says I’m a 9 handicapper with a 14 handicapper’s sand game.

      The Plays Like feature is great – surprisingly accurate for elevation and wind. I’ve learned to trust it.

      It only uses 40% of my iPhone battery – and since I play first thing in the mornings I always have half a battery when I’m done.

      I admit, I do look at the screen after every hole to make sure it didn’t miss anything – like a putt, or accidentally record a putt when i was tapping down a ball mark – but I’m a walker so it doesn’t slow me down at all.

      Its a very very slick system.

      Reply

      petethepro

      7 years ago

      When plain common sense dries up and we lose the ability to add up how many putts we have during 18 holes, we turn to technology. We have to have an app to tell us how to improve. Is it me, or has the golfing world gone mad? Thankfully, there are some of those out there that still understand the importance of solid basics and some sensible course management. Sure, know your distances, but please don’t become so reliant on apps, range finders, GPS, etc that the joy of playing golf (well) becomes secondary. If golfers want genuine improvement with minimum effort, learn the basics well from day 1, from a skilled teaching professional or by yourself. Even if you know it’s 148,75 years to the flag with 14,6 mph wind from NNW, and you have to launch the ball at 19 degrees with 5900 rpm backspin with a peak trajectory of blah blah blah and a descent angle of even more blah, just how many people are capable of achieving this? Surely we have to try to keep things in perspective and play golf for the right reasons and not to line the pockets of well meaning salesmen touting their products. Just a thought.

      Reply

      Art

      7 years ago

      Pete, it’s you.

      Reply

      petethepro

      7 years ago

      Art, yes, it could be me, I know. I have put this to many (tolerant) friends over recent years, but thankfully those who are still sane and honest do agree with me. You see, the stats we chose not to use relate to improvement – when I was learning golf, I just wanted to play better, straighter shots, more distance, fewer putts, lower scores and win tournaments. I tracked my progress because I am blessed with common sense and the ability to add up, in my head. Try this one…. golfers have not improved in the last 30 years – the average man still shoots 97 and the average woman 110, depending on whose set of data we use here. Unchanged in 30 years. Sure the ball goes further and the driver is more forgiving, but the scores remain the same. The better golfers have improved dramatically, the rest are stuck with their current game. Surely the collection of data is just another blind alley that prevents golfers getting to the real reason why they suck at golf when they have the potential to do much, much better.

      ibo

      7 years ago

      Pete, Arccos in no way tells you how to launch the ball, the amount of RPM you need or anything of the sort. It tells you how to manage your game and what your tendencies are.

      I started playing 2 years ago and I’m already playing off 12. I bought an Arccos 360 this last Christmas. I’ve shaved about 5 shots alone with the system, and I’ve already broken 80 thrice. System says I play as a 9.2, driving being my worst part of the game. Yes, you have to practice to get better (I practice A LOT) but this system tells you things you are just guessing. My miss is usually short left. I also go left on my drives more than I thought. So having a couple wild misses right might exaggerate the thought that I go right more often than not. I can train all I want, but as the CEO explained, you might be training things you don’t need to train. This has shown to be true for me too. I was training a lot with the driver but it seems I needed to hit more GIR, my irons were as bad as my driver and I kind of left them out of the equation.

      This system gives you facts. Facts don’t care about your feelings (or guessings).

      By far best money I’ve spent in golf. With a somehow solid base, youtube instruction, video recording your swing (and knowing what your flaws are and that you are able to see them on camera) and a shot tracking device (don’t care Arccos or any other), you can pretty much cut instruction.

      Reply

      Art

      7 years ago

      Pete,

      I’m sorry to hear all your friends placate you and your opinion. What boring conversations and absence of growth there must be in your group. But as long as you are happy in your cocoon of sanity, by all means carry on.

      As for your 30 year stat it doesn’t indicate much, if anything, regarding data tracking and amateurs improvement. Data tracking for us amateurs is in it’s infancy. I don’t understand how a technology that’s been around for 3 years can be blamed for golfers mediocrity over the last 30….or are you just blabbering, hoping you finally spit out something relevant and sensible?

      I, unlike you, am not blessed with the “common sense” to add in my head how well I got up and down, from various conditions and distance, over the course of several weeks or seasons. Or how much my practice with my driver is paying off, or how many putts I miss/make between 5-10 feet…

      Unfortunately most of us are not as blessed as you (and your friends) with that kind of “common sense.” Please have a little pitty for the rest of us and our dependence on the crutch of technology.

      petethepro

      7 years ago

      Ibo, fair points. Each of us has to find their own formula to improve. I found mine many years ago, which was based round a decent swing, solid short game and not too much practice when I think about it. It got me to several events on the European Tour. So I’m struggling to embrace technology because it takes golfers away from the stuff that really matters. I worked at an instruction school where one of the pro’s had everyone on k-vest, video, putt lab. data, etc. Strangely, his results were SHOCKING – easily the most messed up golfers (having parted with significant money for the whole experience) you have ever seen. One of my roles was to put back together the swings of those who still wanted to play the game after the experience. I was very busy.

      petethepro

      7 years ago

      Art, you are entitled to spend your money on golf technology as you wish. However, unless someone (like me!) gives the opposite view, golfers like you might continue to go with the flow. I like to see golfers getting better and enjoying the game, that’s my agenda. I have plenty of experience of the use of launch monitors to provide data, history, trends, etc…. but if someone really wants to improve, it’s great instruction and skip the other nonsense.

      ibo

      7 years ago

      Yes Pete, I get your point. A good swing is obvious and needed in the equation, but KNOWING how you play is a whole different thing. Of course getting Arccos alone won’t help your swing but it will tell you things you are just guessing. It helps with the fine tuning and that is key (at least for me) to get to single digit handicap. A 30 capper will probably realise he’s hitting 40-45 putts and maybe that’s why he can’t break 100. Or maybe is that his driving is stuck at 180 yds both left and right. For you being a pro, might help you realise you are hitting your irons 25 ft on average to the pin in your GIR or that you are not making at least 75% up and downs. I can’t seem to see how this doesn’t help golfers of all levels.

      There will always be golfers that buy $500 drivers to try fix their swings but I believe this is serious commitment and will help improve many golfers’ game.

      Eric F Anderson

      7 years ago

      Technology NOT required nor a Computer Science Degree or MBA. The analyses example cure for ’40 putts’ per round is a ‘no brainer’. Ben Hogan realised the solution many years ago pre-technology. To be clear I am NOT against new technology I embrace it BUT this is ‘taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut!’ No disrespect to Mr Syed.

      Reply

      PlaidJacket

      7 years ago

      Not for me either. Too much data. I get that MGS is all about data – datacratic* if you will. I find most of the MGS testing of equipment to be quite good. I enjoy reading it. However, and for my game; I’ve stopped with all the number management stuff and started playing the game again. And… my game has improved greatly. Best it’s been in years! Sure I practice and have properly fitted equipment, etc. The difference for me however, was “freeing my mind”. I’m playing golf more like it is meant to be and playing better because of it. Technology is great but not always best.

      Reply

      Bruce

      7 years ago

      Interesting device, but I think his MBA education interferes with his business plan. The pricing is ridiculous AND the extra hidden charge is to have an unlimited cell phone data plan. All this to tell you what you should know from a post round analysis of your score card.
      Not going to happen for me.

      Reply

      Kevin B

      7 years ago

      Bruce, you do not need unlimited cell phone data plan unless you plan on using the caddie function. You can turn your data off and if you have already downloaded the map via wifi or cell service, you can turn cell data off and play the round. The caddie function was something added later and not everyone needs or wants it.

      Reply

      Rick

      7 years ago

      It’s simply not true you need an unlimited data plan – the amount of data usage Arccos uses is very small. I use it every round and play once a week and I’m showing only 129 MB used this year.

      Reply

      Raymond CHASTEL

      7 years ago

      This kind of contraption kills all the pleasure of the great game of golf .I would hate to play with a golfer equipped with this ARRCOS stuff.Same as for those toting lasers :they slow down the play .
      To improve you have to work on your swing ,your strategy and your mind …

      Reply

      Art

      7 years ago

      Ray that is idiotic. I play with two stat tracking apps and a laser. No pace problem here. And I love knowing what parts of my game are holding me back, it let’s me know where I need work to shoot lower scores–which I take pleasure in.

      Luddites need not apply, and I respect how you choose to enjoy the game.

      Reply

      Chal

      7 years ago

      how in the world does knowing an exact yardage slow up the game. If anything, standing around watching someone step off a yardage from another fairway takes way more time than pulling my laser and gunning it immediately…

      Reply

      xjohnx

      7 years ago

      Will only slow you down if it’s the guy who wants to show you how cool his new gadget is and talk about it between every shot. They’re out there, trust me. But if someone is using this casually you’d likely not even notice they’re doing it. The things people blame for slow play are just ridiculous lately.

      Reply

      Terry

      7 years ago

      Have tried Golf Game Live and am not a fan. Never play well when using it I think because I’m thinking about it and not my game, so yes, Raymond, it takes some pleasure out of the game.

      But lasers? Come on! They are great for the game and have unquestionably sped up the pace of play. Will be a welcome relief when the USGA and PGA finally authorize them for tournament use. It’s very silly that they do not.

      Reply

      Raymond CHASTEL

      7 years ago

      Using your eyes and your feel is better for your golf than relying on an electronical device . I can estimate with my eyes a distance minus/plus 5 yards and that’s quite enough to calibrate your shot You play by feel not like a robot or a computer .As for my errors ,I don’t need an ARRCOS to find out what are the weak parts of my game:I get my brains working !

      Ben Smith

      7 years ago

      Why Ian it so important that it knows you had a penalty stroke? I wouldn’t use this app to track my score but more so track real distance and miss tendencies. So if I crank on into the pond on the left, then drop, then use it for tracking the next shot- yes it would get my score wrong but it would know the drive went 290 missing left, the 9 iron went 155 missing left and up and down 1 putt. Who cares because the data most people are after is logged. Not the total score. There’s a card for that. Maybe I’m missing something but it seems the only ones who care if it misses a penalty stroke are the folks wanting handicap and adding up that total.

      Reply

      Art

      7 years ago

      Ben, those penalty strokes are important if you are doing a comprehensive analysis of your game. Just looking at distance and direction, as it seems you are doing, is only part of the picture.

      Reply

      Drew

      7 years ago

      Meh. No thanks. As Tom Lehman said, “golf is simple….just hit the ball.”

      Reply

      tdot

      7 years ago

      my buddy has one but says he has to check it after every hole b/c the system makes mistakes, adds strokes, misses strokes etc. and then he has to go in after each hole to edit or he’ll forget later. This kills the social aspect of golfing b/c he’s constantly mucking around on the phone. Caused him to stop using it…

      Reply

      Jim Jones

      7 years ago

      I had the same problems – always having to “correct” the stokes counted and missed by the App, but the worst problem was how it used up my phone battery, I could never, not once, make it through 18 holes on just the phone battery, I had to supplement with an external battery…Too many distractions, I quit using it.

      Reply

      Chris

      7 years ago

      Well worth the $250. Like Eric said it’s a one time purchase. Adds significantly more value than a new driver or putter. Knowing my exact distances with each club helped me with improving the yardage gaps in my bag. Haven’t had the opportunity to use the caddie feature. Seems to be worth it. A device that could collect the data rather than keeping the phone in your pocket would be great.

      Reply

      Carolina Golfer 2

      7 years ago

      This is so cool. I got a rundown on it by Sal at the show as well. I will admit at the time, i was a bit skeptical, but hopeful. I recently played a round with someone who has it, and he was relying on it pretty heavily and seemed to work just fine for him.

      He was playing the course for the first time, and he took what I gave him in local knowledge, and probably let it go in one ear and out the other, and went with what the caddie said.

      He is impressed with it, and the stats he gets as well.

      Reply

      Snapjack

      7 years ago

      Let me get this right! $250 to get into the system plus $50 a year to use it?! Never going to happen for me.

      Reply

      Eric

      7 years ago

      How much $ do you spend on golf per year? You make a one time investment and then the annual fee is the cost of a box of Pro V’s that the technology will save you because you will play better golf.

      Reply

      Carolina Golfer 2

      7 years ago

      Great way to look at it, or how many “skins” or “Nassaus” will you win as a result.

      Carolina Golfer 2

      7 years ago

      So you wouldn’t pay $1.00 or $2.00 per round for a “caddie” Seems like a pretty good deal to me.

      Reply

      dang3rtown

      7 years ago

      $250 for a product that could drastically reduce my score? No way!!! $400 for a driver that might give me 5 more yards and +.05 strokes per round average? TAKE MY MONEY NOW!!!

      Reply

      Carolina Golfer 2

      7 years ago

      Too bad there isn’t a like button option for replys…I would have liked your reply 1,000 times…ha

      Kevin B

      7 years ago

      You dont need to use the caddie function, which costs the 50 a year. You can use arccos without it, plenty of us have and do.

      Reply

      X

      7 years ago

      How is 14/18 greens and 40 putts translate to putting like a scratch player and approach shots like a 12 hcp?

      Reply

      Paul Kraus

      7 years ago

      Distance the approach shot is from the hole. His aren’t near enough to the hole leaving him a lot of long putts.

      Reply

      Art

      7 years ago

      IMMENSE GREENS!!!

      Reply

      Kenny B

      7 years ago

      My thoughts exactly!!!

      Sounds interesting but I’ll wait until I don’t have to have a phone with me.

      Reply

      J-Full

      7 years ago

      I doubt you’ll ever be able to use it totally phone free but what i expect to happen is that you’ll be able to leave your phone in your bag instead of your pocket.

      Personally playing with my phone in my pocket never bothers me but I only started golfing in the smart phone era.

      petethepro

      7 years ago

      Yes, you read the article, which has some strange data of its own. I wish I hit 14 greens because that would make me a fantastic golfer, you know, alongside Jordan and Rory. If you take 40 putts, the conclusion is that you have to hit approaches closer is bizarre. Laughable. Sad, even. And then added that practice didn’t change the putting statistics. Practice alone changes nothing in golf – but practising the right things does. Please everyone, read the article again – it’s full of dodgy data.

      Reply

      Tony Covey

      7 years ago

      First of all, it’s a gross overstatement to say the article is full of dodgy data. What it is full of is Sal anecdotally relating his personal experience. Maybe 40 putts is a conversational exaggeration, maybe it isn’t. I suspect what he meant was “my putt count was higher than I thought it should be, so I practiced my putting”.

      When arguing against Arccos you say that practicing the right thing is what matters. That’s exactly what Sal advocates and what Arccos helps you to understand. In Sal’s case, he practiced his putting because that’s what he thought (based on putt counts) was his problem. Arccos revealed that his problem was actually approach shots and so he changed his practice routine and he improved. In short, Arccos told him exactly the right thing to practice.

      As to your GIR argument…I’m not saying GIRs are not important, but if we accept that a Strokes Gained methodology has merit, you must also then accept that pin proximity also has merit. Like number of putts, GIR is a stat that tells a partial story of on-course performance.

      So again we go back to Sal’s example. His putt count was high because while he was hitting greens, he was leaving himself long distances to the pin, likely resulting in more 3-putts. This has very little to do with the putting, but rather his 1st putt distance.

      Really basic example…do you 2-putt more often from 10 feet than 5? Your ability is basically the same at both distances, but because of proximity, you’ll have more putts from 10 feet than 5. Extrapolate that out to 30, 40, 60 feet, and even a good putter will have more 3-putts from 60 feet than from 20. Again – little to do with actually putting ability and nearly everything to do with proximity.

      So, in Sal’s example, Arccos suggested his putting was actually fine, but he needed to improve his pin proximity. That’s what he worked on. GIR% likely went up a bit and putt counts likely went down (his Arccos putting handicap may not have changed), but he improved because Arccos helped him understand what it was he actually needed to do to improve his game.

      John Barba

      7 years ago

      I’ll echo what Tony said – and what Hogan said. If you want to sink more putts, hit your approach shots closer to the hole. We all understand that as a pretty basic tenet of golf. But looking at just GIR and # of putts as raw numbers, which is what you get on your scorecard, paints a pretty incomplete picture – which is where strokes gained comes in. Same with Fairways – if you top your drive and it only goes 80 yards, but hits the fairway, that would officially count as a fairway hit. Or what if you hit a fairway but leave yourself a difficult lie or have a tree overhang in your way? Stats tell part of the story.

      Shouldn’t a golfer be able to figure this stuff out for himself? Does he really NEED an analytics system to tell him to hit the ball closer to the hole? I don’t know – how many of us need to realize we actually carry our driver 230 and not 270? I’ve met more wonderful, honest, bright, witty, intelligent and fun people on the golf course who were borderline delusional about their golf game, and what their strengths and weaknesses really were. There’s something about cold, hard facts that doesn’t allow for self-deception – it’s why when we take lessons with a pro he may video tape your swing so you can see for yourself what you’re doing, or he can point a hitch that’s worked its way into your swing over the past several weeks without you really being aware of it, but it’s making you hit the ball to the right side of the moon. You may swear up and down you’re doing the same thing you’ve been doing, but the video doesn’t lie.

      I think much of the value of analytics will depend on what kind of person you are, and how you process information. If you’re an instinctual type person and you make decisions based on feelings and intuition, you may not find much value in advanced data – it may be overwhelming. If you’re more of analytical mind – if you like to read through reviews before buying stuff, or if you pour through stats preparing for your fantasy football draft, and if you already keep track of FW’s, GIR’s and Putts, you may find the information helpful – it just depends on how you process information to make decisions.

      Does collecting this data take away from the game? Is it too much work? I think the systems that aren’t seamless and require on-course changes in your routine won’t last. For me, data collection has to be seamless and happen with little, if any, extra work on my part.

      As far as what to do with the data once you have, as Sal said, you’re the CEO of your golf game – do with it what you will, or don’t bother with data at all – it’s your game.

      Art

      7 years ago

      Tony, John, if you and the advertising party are trying to convince us this is a product worth purchasing, maybe an anecdotal exaggeration supporting an analytical device is…insulting?

      Isn’t there supposed to be someone devoted to watching out for the consumer here??

      So yes, we take issue with the idea that someone claims they averaged 14/18 GIR, yet were consistently so far away from the cup, that even as a 0 index putter, he took 40 putts a round–but all was better with ARRCOS!

      Seems far fetched at best. For the skeptical, it feels more like snake oil.

      John Barba

      7 years ago

      Art – I personally couldn’t care less if you purchased an ARCCOS or not. My intention in writing this story is to give you some background on the company and a profile of the CEO/Founder, as well as give you a preview on ARCCOS Caddie. I’ve read the article a few times now and don’t see anywhere in it where it says you too will go from a 7 to scratch if you use one.

      ARCCOS, along with Shot Scope, Game Golf, Sky Caddie Lynx GT and any other shot tracking technology – is about collecting data and giving you information. What you do with it is up to you.

      Art

      7 years ago

      John, why did you feel it important to give us some background on the company and a profile of the CEO/Founder, as well as give you a preview on ARCCOS Caddie, if not to introduce us to a product that could help our golf game? Isn’t that what MGS is all about?? Powertotheplayer??? Your seeming indifference, to your readers and your business partner, is a little surprising.

      I never indicated the article said I too could go a 7 to scratch by using Arccos. I don’t believe the article says that. Feel free to read it a few more times if you like, looking for support to a statement I didn’t make.

      I love the technology and data. Appreciate you bringing the caddie feature to my attention. I just wish the article didn’t feel like an infomercial, with you guys defending an anecdotal-conversational sales pitch from Sal. #Powertotheplayer, right??

      MyGolfSpy

      7 years ago

      Art,

      You have been a long time reader and commenter on MGS. Thanks. I think.

      You have produced 4 pages full of comments to be exact over the past 2 1/2 years. I read them all because I felt like we had a trend going on. After reading all 4 pages it became quite obvious.

      1. You do not think we know how to run a test properly
      2. You do not think we write our articles properly
      3. You regularly put down our readers in the comment section
      4. You regularly put down our writers and other industry experts in the comment section

      You use terms to describe our work and put down others like: idiotic, garbage, snake oil, moronic, poor data, bias, hypocrits, non-objective data, etc.

      Listen, we are all here at MyGolfSpy for one reason. To learn. And then spread what we learn to consumers to help educate and empower them. Readers help us learn everyday. But you? I am finding it hard to understand why YOU are here at all.

      You don’t seem to enjoy our work and you don’t seem to want to learn or help others get better. You have not had a positive comment on a single thing we have published over the past 2 1/2 years. There are many alternatives to MGS in the golf media world, if you don’t like it you are free to turn the channel. And at this point I think it would be best.

      MGS Owner

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