Drivers

MyGolfSpy Labs: Persimmon vs. Your Titanium Driver

BY Andrew Rice
Nov 3rd 2014
Read all comments

What advantage does modern driver technology actually provide the golfer over a steel shafted persimmon club?

A few months back I had an old steel shafted persimmon club out on my lesson tee. I had one young female student ask about the club and she stated she had never before seen a wooden club (she was born in the very late 90’s) let alone hit one. This got me thinking. Firstly, that I really must be old, and secondly how much of a difference do these newer and far more technologically advanced drivers really make? I had to test this!

Here is what I came up with:

Test Parameters

Driver data was collected for 8 golfers (6 males and 2 females)
2 golfers had swing speeds in the 70’s, 2 in the 80’s, 2 in the 90’s and 2 in the 100’s
Each golfer hit series of shots with their own driver and another with the persimmon driver
Any shots that had a total distance variance of greater than 25% from the norm (all shorter) were eliminated and replayed
Golfers would hit 2 shots with their own, 2 with the persimmon, 2 with their own, until we had collected enough shots for each
We used new Titleist NXT Tour Practice golf balls and the data was normalized
Handicaps ranged from Professional (plus) to 15 and included a golfer that has played in the Senior US Open, a former General, a Ladies Club Champion, a girls junior golfer, a teaching pro and a former CEO

DATA

The primary point of interest for me was that all the golfers had drivers that were, not surprisingly, physically longer than the persimmon club (yes, even the ladies) and all their shaft weights were lighter than the heavy steel shaft in the persimmon club.

We’ve all heard that lighter and longer means faster. As you might expect the differences led to a substantially faster club speed with their personal drivers (88.3 vs 81.1).

How did that translate into total distance?

With their own drivers the testers averaged 220.8 yards while with the persimmon they averaged 198.2 yards – a sizable difference, but when you factor in the decreased length of the club and the increased weight there wasn’t as much difference as there may appear to be.

Calculating yards per mile per hour – the modern drivers hit the ball 2.50 yards per mph, while the wooden club hits the ball 2.44 yards per mph. Also keep in mind that the persimmon club was not “fitted” to any of the test subjects nor had any of them ever hit a shot with the club before.

In my opinion this could easily account for the relatively small differences in yards per mph. In fact if the modern titanium clubs were of similar length and weight relative to the wooden club thus resulting in the same club speed the average tee shot would have traveled 202.8 yards – less than five yards longer!

MY TAKE

So what can you take from this? No, I don’t want you digging around the garage to find that old MacGregor Tourney driver you had, but I do want to be clear on the following:

The length of your driver should be a length that you can swing fast and control. The next time you get fitted please try shafts of different lengths.
The weight of the shaft in your driver shouldn’t be extreme – not overly heavy (90+ grams) or overly light (less than 45 grams).
With regard to the performance of titanium, it’s the not the material itself, but rather what that material makes possible from an engineering standpoint. Titanium allows for lighter and longer shafts and larger, more forgiving heads.
Physics makes the ball GO! Higher launch (commensurate with your club speed) and lower spin (1900 rpm – 2400 rpm) work very well, no matter what club you’re hitting.
A well positioned strike on the clubface will do wonders for both your distance and control.

If you’re a competitive golfer I would encourage you to find an older, small-headed driver to practice with. Wood or metal it doesn’t matter. It will help you hone in on making a centered strike on the tee ball on a more regular basis.

Good driving is less about the club and more about how you deliver the club to the ball.

Find a club that works for you and then work towards getting the most out of it. The club – titanium or wood – makes less of a difference than you might think.

For You

Golf Shafts

Apr 14, 2024

Testers Wanted: Autoflex Dream 7 Driver Shaft

News

Apr 14, 2024

A Rare Masters ‘L’: Day Asked To Remove Sweater

Drivers

Apr 13, 2024

Testers Wanted: Callaway Ai Smoke Drivers

Andrew Rice

Andrew Rice has been the Director of Instruction at the Westin Savannah Harbor. His teaching objective is to get his students to understand, and learn to better control the factors that influence the flight of their golf ball. He has been teaching golf for almost 25 years and uses cutting edge teaching technology to measure and help golfers of all abilities improve.

Andrew Rice

MGS Labs – The Wedge Sole Test

Aug 22, 2017 | 57 Comments

MGS Labs: Conforming vs. Non-Conforming Grooves

Nov 25, 2015 | 47 Comments

MyGolfSpy Labs: Draws vs. Fades

Feb 9, 2015 | 106 Comments

Andrew Rice

comments

Join The Discussion

Mike boatright

6 years ago

The thing I like about a good persimmon driver is it’s centered mass kinda the same as Tm steel Pittsburgh persimmons very similar actually. The weight improves your swing and timing and makes you nail it with a proper spine angle, With todays club as feather sticks shafts and huge heads you just need to be about right while swinging 118 mph and will achieve play ability and 30 yards more distance sometimes.. It’s not better or worse if you happen to love persimmon and feel stupid not playing technology simply get a steel shaft at 43.5 inches and glue it to a m1 the added weight and right flex will give you the feel of persimmon and allow you to make a controlled swing with forgiveness on toe hits.

Joe Peters

8 years ago

Since the mid-90s I have been preaching the very statement you make here – titanium has no inherent property that adds length; it is just a more flexible material. It has also doesn’t hurt that it is more marketable. An inelastic collision is an inelastic collision. While materials can impact the efficiency of that collision, the difference between titanium and the insert of a persimmon are negligible. It is only when we move the club into the hands of human beings, each with distinct flaws and strengths, can we make even a broad generalization. Example: Titanium due to the larger hollow heads has a different center of gravity. The net result is a higher launch, which is what most golfers need to achieve optimum distance (we mistakenly think lower loft is longer). It also doesn’t hurt that Titanium is more marketable and easier to produce and reproduce than persimmon heads.

Andre

9 years ago

You example and calculations don’t mean much as :

– the launch angle are not the same,
– the smash factor is lower on the titanium driver – 1.459- than on the persimon -1.473- and far from the best possible one which is 1.5 for a well centered ball.

John Ineson

9 years ago

Loved the picture of the two heads. Where on earth did you find a 460 cc persimmon?

James

9 years ago

Wood, if not correctly humified, will get brittle over the years. That being said I have an old McGregor wood headed driver that I bring out of retirement once in awhile and it works fine. Though the remainder of its life might be shorter than I think.

waz

9 years ago

the new drivers have huge heads, huge sweetspots, and are much straighter because of this, so you hit your best shot more often, driver sales are HUGE business, they have us all convinced that clubhead speed is everything, it’s bollox, momentum is what you are looking for, it’s momentum which sends any object a given distance when hit by another object, Velocity x Mass = momentum……….you wanna send the ball further, learn to use your mass, you wanna hit longer shots more often? learn to time it, davis love III talks about i timing, and every long hitter ever talks about timing, and that’s reaching your maximum velocity whilst you are transferring your Mass at the impact zone, have you ever hit the ball miles when you were not even trying? you used your mass combined with your clubhead speed………………golf= money……….remember that.

andrew

9 years ago

try what i do- take an old 240ish cc head driver that your uncle gave you, and put on an outlaw 50″ plus shaft… practice just touching the ball, then get it close to center, then smooth it all out…

Randy

9 years ago

What about graphite shafts on a wooden head? Modern 45.5 or old 43 inch shafts? Where would the new mini drivers which are 43 inches long compare?

Bob Pegram

9 years ago

I have see a wooden head on a graphite shaft. With the longer length, you would have to heat the sole plate screws so they could be removed. Then remove some of the lead to lighten up the head. Use epoxy on the screws when replacing the sole plate.
Still wouldn’t be as forgiving as a metal head, but would be a better comparison of metal heads vs. wood heads.

Euan Hardman

7 years ago

I broke the steel shaft on my Slazenger Plus wood laminate Driver in about 1974. The pro persuaded me to have one of those ‘new-fangled’ graphite shafts fitted. he had to ream out the head to fit it. It was an eye-opener. The club weighed almost nothing, and if I could control it, two 310 yard holes on my home course were easily reachable. Mind you, I was just as likely to be three fairways away!

Bit older now and don’t attempt any of that nonsense now. 240 yards down the middle is quite enough thank you!

Painter33

6 years ago

Find a Wood Bros. Kool Kat driver – persimmon heads on slightly longer graphite shafts. Might be natural, yellow, or red in color. Very solid, great “click” at impact. I have one that I haven’t hit for years, although every time I look at it I get a little tempted….

Randy Niemela

9 years ago

How would the distance be if both clubs were the same length-one with steel shaft-the other with graphite shaft-had the same weight-same grip or if you switched shafts-Ti head with steel shaft and Persimmon with graphite shaft. Im a former supervisor at True Temper Corp. golf shaft division in Geneva, Ohio also had a off course golf shop for 16 years. Thank you

Jh

8 years ago

I had friend in late seventies who played a persimmon Wilson staff driver before the laminated ones with a Xtra stiff steel shafts. He hit driver wedge on every part five we played .one hole a down hill 349 yard par four coming into clubhouse he bounced drive off top of clubhouse which was behind green. He was the longest hitter I’ve ever seen and never played college or pro golf became a Dr. He routinely shot part or better. On top of that he hit moon balls that disappeared into sky we just walked and found them. Lol I wondered over the years how he would do today with today’s equipment

joro

9 years ago

As an old Wooden Club maker for Cobra I have seen it all and the fact is that the game has gone crazy with length. The biggest reason for that is metal, or whatever else they try. For one thing the COR today is limited to .083, Wood was .075 and that was large. Also the weight of the old Wood Drivers was usually around 131/2 OZ compared to today at 11oz give or take an oz, usually under though because light is todays keyword. Length in the old days was std. at 43″ for a Driver, today is 46″, There is a huge difference and it is no wonder they are shorter.

I think personally this lightweight stuff is a bunch of hooey just to sell clubs. Mgrs. need something new to sell clubs, and Golfers are suckers for anything new. So companies like Taylor Made for example come out with new stuff at least twice a year. I have known the big Cheese at TM since the 70s and love him dearly, but they are ruining Golf by creating a constant flow of “newer and better” clubs. One thing I have always done in my club making and design was to consider what the people play who play for a living, and it ils not light. Ads are all about distance, nothing about control, so light is longer, right ? Not necessarily, and not near as accurate, but the ads don’t mention that.

I have been interested in product for years and have had the opportunity to make clubs for the Pros. and to know a lot of the great club makers in my time and having tried everything both to better my game and design of clubs that work. It is not all about distance although the courses are getting so long it is getting desperate for old Codgers like me. The current Irons hit it longer, just read the Ads, they tell you that. What they don’t tell you is that back in time a Pitching wedge was usually 50 degrees, today it is 45, that is an old 9 iron, or even less in some clubs. And up to an inch longer with spring faces etc. Sure it is longer, todays wedge is yesterdays 8 or 9 iron.

Bottom line to finish this is having tried it all, lighter and lighter, Graphite Shafted Irons, 45 gram Graphite in the woods, lite grips, I have found that i hit the ball best with 95gr Steel shafts in my irons, heavy 225 gr. steel in my Wedges, 65 gr. Stiff Diamana in my Driver, and 75s in my frays, 85s in my hybrids and it works the best for distance and accuracy and I have tried them all. And,,,, I am 75 yrs old!!!!

Fiind out works best for YOU, and don’t get trapped into spending good money just so the big guys can make more. Some of the old stuff is the best.

Dan

9 years ago

@joro you must know Bud Clayton? I think he would have the same reply as you.

Joe Golfer

9 years ago

@joro: I think you mean 125 gram shafts in your wedges.
A Dynamic Gold shaft is around 130 grams, and that’s the most popular wedge shaft on tour. 225 grams would feel like you were swinging one of those weighted training clubs.
If you are 75 years old, you must generate decent clubhead speed still, considering you play a Stiff flex Diamana shaft in your driver. The stiff flex is generally designed for a swing speed of 95-105 mph, depending on tempo.

Regis

9 years ago

I played Persimmon (always Mac Gregor) for the first 15 years of my undistinguished golfing career. Couple of thoughts. There was no such thing as getting fitted and shaft options were limited. If you were a serious golfer the woods had to be re-finished every couple of years. Grips were usually leather wrapped (They were sweet) and as soon as people started moving away from balata balls the magic was lost. People spent a lot more emphasis on the ball they played. A change in ball could be a real game changer. I loved the 100 compression Nicklaus balata but that thing would cut wide open on even the slightest mishit.

John

9 years ago

Hi
I was one of the first people to sell Metal Woods in Europe in the late 70s and the original idea about Metal Woods was not about distance it was about accuracy and ease of use.
What I said to explain the benefits of Metal against Wood is that if you put a ball in the middle of the fairway where you hit your Sunday best drive with a wooden driver the metal wood will hit it there more often. Also in the early days we struggled to get Tour Pros to use them because they said they could only hit the ball straight and had great difficulty in shaping shots.
The metal woods were so much easier to use than wood and by definition players could hit the ball further because of the added confidence they got from them. Lets be honest and say it is the ball that has made the biggest difference to distance.

steve

9 years ago

In the days of wood a nice dive was 250 yards for me..After titanium I could hit a ball 250-270 in the air..It was a big difference. .We should have never allowed anything other than wood in woods

Rod_CCCGOLFUSA

9 years ago

Had you fitted a club with Louisville Golf results would have been even closer. Plus, the gear effect supported by persimmon face bulge would have tightened shot dispersion. We are paying a lot without seeing a commensurate reduction in handicaps.

Andy J

9 years ago

Would have like to seen this testing to have included the initial “stainless steel” Big Bertha and the Burner which directly competed against persimmon in its heyday.

Howard

9 years ago

The right club is the one you hit the best. There is no correlation between swing speed, handicap, etc. with a particular club, flex, shaft weight or flex. Results are all that matters.

Golfer Burnz

9 years ago

Remember that period in the late 90’s of small headed, solid, metal woods between the switch from persimmon to Titanium? For a period, I played a 45″ Wilson Prostaff, seemed like around 260cc, solid stainless steel head with a graphite headspeed shaft. I hit some of the longest drives I’ve ever hit with that driver and I could actually work the ball. I wasn’t consistently long with it, but every once in awhile, if I got the ball In the sweet spot, it was the bomb. Never had to worry about the COR in the face wearing down either. Sometimes I consider pulling it out of storage and see how it performs. I still miss the sound sound and feel of persimmon though.

leo

9 years ago

are you sure it was a solid steel head.iwas on taylor made staff in the mid to late 1980s and the first metal tour burnerplus was a hollow metal head with a foam-like filler.a solid steel head would be mighty heavy

Blade

9 years ago

A solid SS head would weigh over 5 pounds.

bayo

8 years ago

What a totally worthless test. No $hit a shorter, steel-shafted persimmon driver won’t hit the ball as long as a longer, ultralight graphite-shafted Ti club. Stick the same shaft in a persimmon head and trim to the same length and THEN do the comparison.

johnny

9 years ago

can you fit a perssimon driver head with a graphite shaft?

leo

9 years ago

yes graphite shafts were in use long before titanium and even steel headed drivers

Charles P.

9 years ago

I would love to see a comparison done with “modern” persimmon clubs (basically Louisville Golf clubs nowadays). Louisville’s largest driver, the 300cc Thumper Max, I would think would provide more forgiveness and, perhaps, more average distance as a result. A comparison of fairway woods might be an even better competition. I game a LG 3-wood Niblick that I would not trade for any fancy slotted fw no matter how “hot” the face is. Swinging a persimmon 3-wood that has the same steel (TT Dynamic Gold) shaft that my irons do is an irreplaceable feeling. The extra weight facilitates a smoother, easier swing for me, and it feels like there’s more mass behind the ball at impact. With the modern lightweight clubs, it feels like I’m swinging nothing. Plus the low c.g. that the brass soleplate of the Niblick provides gets the ball up quickly on a flat trajectory.

Long story short, I wonder what kind of fight the modern, larger, screwless-face persimmons could put up?

Jorge

9 years ago

Congrats! very interesting and myth breaking. My only comment is that differences betwee the 2 will be wider if golfers testing them have a higher hcp. As far as I can see accuracy is not under comparison. But very enlightening

leo

9 years ago

what i would have liked to see is the data for each individual tester.the effects vary greatly for different swing speed players.lumping the results of a professional in with a junior girl makes the data useless.pga tour driving distance averages are up about 35 yds since the days of persimmon

Bob Pegram

9 years ago

A big part of that distance difference is due to the balls. It is due to the balls much more than the clubs.

leo

9 years ago

you are right about the balls playing a big part in distance gains but the modern ball would not perform the way it does with the old equipment.thatsanother reason these comparisons are not truly valid.another often overlooked factor is how much bigger and stronger todays tour player is.a guy 6’2 was huge now it is commonplace

Greg V

9 years ago

What would be really interesting would be the difference in distance between wood and titanium for high swing speed players compared to lower swing speed players. Supposedly, the spring face on a titanium driver really doesn’t help much at lower swing speeds, but makes a big difference at higher swing speeds. I suspect that the 2.5 yard per mph figure listed above would be even greater for high swing speed players.

I play a good bit of golf with a hickory shafted set, and the difference between my hickory driver and my Ping G25 is substantial.

SeniorSlammer

9 years ago

Very interesting test. If you do the test again, try and find a Wood Brothers ‘Corker,’ (a Persimmons head filled with cork–like the old baseball bats), with a G. Loomis shaft (yes, the fishing rod G. Loomis!). They were made for awhile in the 90s.

Jon

9 years ago

Good point, I have played with persimmon drivers. I remember my alot more “short shots” with my wood Woods than my metal Woods.

Kenny B

9 years ago

“Any shots that had a total distance variance of greater than 25% from the norm (all shorter) were eliminated and replayed
Golfers would hit 2 shots with their own, 2 with the persimmon, 2 with their own, until we had collected enough shots for each”

So,
1) How many shots collected were enough?
2) How many shots were eliminated for each driver?
3) How many more shots were needed for the persimmon to get to the “enough shots”?

I never played with persimmon drivers, but have hit a few just for fun, with not very good results. If this is what I would have had to play with when I started playing golf, I would not be playing today.

Chal

9 years ago

Didn’t the PGA tour do a similar test this year at Cherry Hills. They tried to let all the guys recreate Arnolds drive onto the 1st green. None of the guys got all that close.

RON

9 years ago

I think if a Ti driver had the same steel shaft and length the wood driver would go farther, not to mention persimmon drivers feel 1000 times better off the face , easier to work the ball compared to this giant thin metal crap we hit today which is cheap as hell to make, wow what a big surprise ha, but they are more durable than wood clubs which was the one thing I didnt like about woodan clubs JORO was right about the game today being all abt frigin distance, in which I think ruins the game , nobody should hit a drive over 300 yards consistantly and even longer than that on tour, alot longer than that, it ruins all the classic courses and takes all the short to average length hitters on tour out of competition which is NOT golf. The golf ball is largely to blame, Im not living in the past Im still young 46 I think , I enjoyed golf so much more woth the balata balls and persimmon woods of the 80s than I have the last 15 yeArs hitting rock balls and big gigantic headed golf clubs with these queer graphite shafts, its rediculous.

Tom S

9 years ago

> Handicaps ranged from Professional (plus) to 15 and included a golfer
> that has played in the Senior US Open, a former General, a Ladies Club
> Champion, a girls junior golfer, a teaching pro and a former CEO

Not really understanding what being a former General or a former CEO has to do with this. Descriptions of the other players is certainly relevant, but being a former General or a former CEO gives us no inkling as to the person’s ability with a driver. Likewise, “girls junior golfer” doesn’t really tell us very much either. Is she someone who has played in the US Girls Junior (meaning she is an excellent player)? Or is she just a 14 year old who hacks it around?

Just wondering.

raynman

9 years ago

being a former General and a former CEO tells you alot about how much free time
these people had to play golf. maybe they are not great but I am sure they have played
more than someone who has to put in 8 hours for a living

Jon

9 years ago

“Former” not “General or CEO”, tells you that they have more time to play golf, they are retired. That they retired as a General and CEO, tells you they have enough money to play as much retirement golf as they choose.

However, I was in the Army, all Generals all average more than 8 hours work a day, ditto with every CEO I ever worked for. Not unusual for some of these types to put in 70+ hours a week. Not alot of time to play golf for those with that kind of schedule.

Tom S

9 years ago

So then a former *anything* would qualify.

Jon

9 years ago

Tom, you got it! Its about how much time you have to play not what you once did for a living.

Though, as I think about it, if you were in a profession that demanded a lot of your time, you probably would not have had as much time to play while you were working so you might not be as accomplished a player in your retirement years as someone who had a lot of time to play while they were working.

Vic

9 years ago

I was wondering the same thing. Why not a baker and say, Indian Chief?

Blade

9 years ago

It was just to round out the descriptions of who was included in the test group. It doesn’t mean what they used to do had any bearing on the test. Geez.

Russ

9 years ago

Several years ago, when I was first instructed in persimmon, I picked up a Louisville Golf classic fifties series persimmon 3 and 5 wood. LG was/is building those clubs today. MSLP $169.99. I picked mine up in an antique store for $3.00 apiece. LG dissertation was that the persimmons tended to concentrate the end of the shot into a smaller footprint where the titanium tended to widen that landing spot.
Nothing derogatory concerning Titanium, it just lacks that sound that persimmon makes. That, my friends, is sweet.

Bob Pegram

9 years ago

This doesn’t surprise me. I switched to metal ‘woods’ fairly late. With on-center hits there was no significant distance difference. The lighter metal ‘wood’ heads allowed me to make the clubs slightly longer (still with a steel shaft at that point). It was on the off-center hits where the real woods were way worse. They would lose a lot of distance when hit off-center. Plus, their center of gravity was higher making any hit slightly below the sweet spot lose trajectory and distance.
As other people have noted, going to graphite shafts made a bigger difference. With their lighter weight, the clubs could be longer and easier to hit farther, but also easier top hit offline with a bad swing. Metal wood heads, especially at longer lengths, took a lot of getting used to.
The lofts of real woods were generally lower because they were made for balata balls. With the more modern lower spin balls, part of the lower distance with the real woods may be due to insufficient trajectory with those clubs and modern balls. Using higher loft real woods, or balata balls, might narrow the distance gap further.
This really makes you wonder about the driver extra distance claims each year.

CBlackwell

9 years ago

I’ve heard that the older clubs perform better when hitting a ball of the same era. Any data on this?

james

9 years ago

Ha, ha… I also have an old Acushnet Bullseye putter somewhere. I should find that puppy and and re-shaft it to belly-putter length and amaze my golfing buddies when I break it out!

john

9 years ago

Cory Pavin still uses a bullseye putter. I have one that my dad gave me and I still use it from time to time.

Kenny B

9 years ago

I used a brand new Bullseye putter last year when I rented a complete set of Titleist clubs at the Sandia Golf Club in Albuquerque, NM. When I got the rental set and saw the putter, I was not very happy since I play a face-balanced putter. But I actually putted quite well that day. It’s quite good.

mickey

9 years ago

Mickey
I’m not into so of crunching numbers. I’m just wonderering if you can damage an old wooden club playing with it. They’re old Wilson Staffs. Thanks

snowma

9 years ago

212, 240!? Everyone online hits it 300 with a nice push-draw.

james

9 years ago

I have an old McGregor persimmon driver in my closet. I take it out every two years or so and proudly bring it to the range. I am surprised I can still hit it but I manage. It is fun. And it’s nostalgic. It’s straighter but not anywhere as long as my current driver.

My son is 16 and on the high school golf team. This article has spurred me to take that old driver back out of the closet and let him hit it on the range. He has never hit a wood club. It will be a great experience for him. For a few minutes he can pretend to be Bobby Jones or Sam Snead. if he even knows who they are…

Jools A.

9 years ago

Great analysis… I love the sound and look of persimmon. Louisville Golf (no connection and imply no endorsement) is still making them and they are gorgeous! The putter is probably more viable because of its weight…

Lou

9 years ago

Very cool test. I actually went to hit some old balls behind my brother’s place (he has an open field) and he’s like ” My wife’s uncle has an old set of clubs, wanna try them” and he had a persimmon driver. Took it out and was hitting straight every time! I was shocked. My Nike Covert naturally went further but I found it surprisingly easy to swing and hit.

joro

9 years ago

As a wood maker for some years I find this article interesting for the many Golfers who never had an opportunity to hit a real Wood. In those days a Driver was really a thing of beauty. Although Persimmon was the chosen Wood, Laminated hard rock Maple was really much better, it was consistent, easier to work with, and more durable as to resist Water damage, which would eat away Persimmon. Persimmon differed in weight, Hardness and grain. But a good piece of Persimmon was a work of art.

Then metal came along, durable, easy to make, and strong and tough. SS was good, but then Titanium was better, it allowed for bigger heads, stronger heads and thinner faces, it was the start of the distance race. Match it with Graphite shafts and it maxes out length.

Length is everything today, it is not about straight, it is about length. Find me an ad that says anything other than length and I will buy you a Beer. Courses are longer today which means more land, more maintenance, more water, and of course higher Green Fees to pay for it all.

I would like to see Wood back, bring the game back to shotmaking, have shorter courses everyone can enjoy, not just big hitters. Bring class back. But,,,,,,,,,, it will never happen.

Christopher

9 years ago

I doubt we’ll ever see a return of wooden clubs but I would like to see the professionals play with clubs no bigger than 200cc, shafts no lighter than 100g and no longer than 45 inches. It would be great to see the results!

Amazing to see the differences in players swings from now and 25 years ago, todays equipment really allows the big-hitters to have at it! We’ve lost most of those graceful swings of the persimmon era.

Bob Pegram

9 years ago

A tournament for touring pros where they had to use wood headed woods and forged blade irons would be fun to watch, even with the new balls.
I used a wood headed driver a lot longer than most people. I could hit it just as far as a standard length titanium driver – as long as I hit is dead center. Hitting it off center made me lose distance faster than with a titanium club.

Alan

9 years ago

The biggest difference is the ball used. The COR of todays ball differs greatly from the old balata. If you used the balata ball with today’s drivers, they would not go as far either and the difference in distance would be smaller if not the same. Todays balls are made for the metal woods. The old ball for wood.

Lee

9 years ago

Absolutely, last year Alvaro Quiros hit a persimmon driver around 270 yards in a test which was deemed amazing with the ‘Modern Golf Ball’ the only shame was nobody present had a sleeve of mint Titleist professionals / Balata’s to throw him! A properly struck shot with an old wooden driver and the correct ball will go a very similar distance to todays driver/ball combination. For all you younger guys and girls – the old drivers look beautiful but I can assure you unless your swing was on the money forget it, the big reason for us 50+’s still playing off 4,5 etc is the 460cc weapon and the ball.

Foz

9 years ago

Thanks for the insight Andrew. I gamed Powerbilt Persimmons for 30 years, knowing that my drive was always down the middle…..My current Driver is the Cobra Bio Cell…it also sails down the middle…..however, my average driver distance is about 200-210…..I need more distance….ugh!

Dan

9 years ago

Now re-do the tests but exchange the modern ball with a balata and see what happens.

Bob Frazier

9 years ago

Why? I can’t see any use of such a test. It’s the club that’s interesting, not the ball.

thomas catania

9 years ago

hey Kyle Mo bet the 983K beats them all including current driver. just picked one up on ebay 4 25 bucks….persimmon can be as long.

Lee

9 years ago

Totally agree about the 983k a fabulous driver which you will still go a long way to better. I’ve still got mine (9.5, Speeder 757) sadly it’s the HiCr version so can only be used for fun at the range.

Jonny B.

9 years ago

Any info regarding accuracy?

Dave S

9 years ago

This ^^

Tony Covey

9 years ago

In literal terms, the persimmon was approximately .5 yards closer to the target line.

However, as we frequently discuss with our club tests, a ball hit anything other than straight will generally move farther from the target line the farther (down range distance) it travels. Basically the farther you hit it, the more offline it goes.

When we look at how far offline the ball moved for each yard of distance it traveled, Titanium proved to be more accurate than persimmon.

The averages break out like this:
For every 1 yard offline, titanium traveled ~13 yards where as Persimmon traveled ~12 yards for every yard it moved offline. I’d have to crunch the numbers to give you an exact number, but all things normalized, we’re talking about a measurable though not tremendous accuracy advantage for titanium.

fleeter

9 years ago

Interesting stuff. I’ve got an old McGregor eye-o-matic out in the garage collecting dust and i saw it the other day and wondered what it would be like to hit it again. I think I’ll pass though and just let it continue to collect dust….

birdiexris

9 years ago

interesting test. What was the control, however? Were all the clubs used fit to the person to achieve the same parameters in launch? It’s nice to have the same people hit the different clubs, but one could argue that you’re going to achieve the same result if they hit, say, a big bertha vs a Taylormade if it’s off the rack. Still a good article in theory, but I think it should be explained a little more and show more data to back up your findings.

Blade

9 years ago

Oh please. He stated the persimmon was fitted to anyone and no one had hit it before. It wasn’t a long term test study to be done. It was, “Let’s see what the difference is between a handful of people hitting their own driver and hitting this old club laying here.” And that’s exactly how it was presented.

Blade

9 years ago

Wasn’t fitted. Sorry.

Adam

9 years ago

Thanks Andrew!

Keep the labs coming!

KyleMo

9 years ago

Awesome test! I’ve always wanted to do one of these. I have a bag of every Titleist driver from the 976r up until now in my office and would LOVE to do a shoot out between all of them.

Very cool test! Thanks for sharing

John Alexander

9 years ago

I have been playing with Persimmon woods(1,3,4,5) for two years now. I rarely miss a fairway off the tee, and shots from the fairway are much easier and straight. I started playing golf with Persimmon and blade style irons. I’m not certain that all the equipment technolgy benefits the game of golf, and indirectly may be responsible for some of the trouble that is hurting golf at present.

Dave S

9 years ago

A Persimmon 1w is really just a present-day 3w… so I’m not surprised you’re hitting more fairways.

John Alexander

9 years ago

You are right. The 1W is 43”/10.5*loft. I am 64yo and these persimmons–smaller head size and shorter length are a good match for my slower swing speed.

drjacko

9 years ago

I like the theory of using a small headed practice club. But consider this:

1) That club isn’t your gamer
2) That club isn’t fit for you.

So unless its a weighted club, you’re spending time on something you aren’t going to use and is inappropriate for you.

Why? Why jeopardise your tempo and swing pattern? Why not mark your sweetspot and shrink it to 50 or 75 percent and make your practice aim to hit that spot with every attempt?

Here’s a nice research project. Have guys do the small headed club for x number of swings than go out and play then hthe next time, do the above for x number of times. Then check out the results.

Best wishes.

Bob Pegram

9 years ago

If the wood headed wood had the same specs as the metal wood a golfer normally uses, it would be good practice to use the wood headed wood. Otherwise no.
A clubmaker could set up a club with the same specs.
Another thing to do is to spray the face of the metal wood you usually use with foot powder. The location of the ball impact will be shown on each swing.

Dave S

9 years ago

Average distance with Titanium was only 212? Pretty surprising considering the highest hdcp player was a 15.

Also, aren’t the old Persimmon 1 woods more like today’s 3 wood in terms of length and club head size? Would like to see that comparison too.

Good stuff nonetheless…thanks!

revkev

9 years ago

The average was 220 which is actually 10 yards longer than the average drive for a male golfer so yes the average was above average – no shock when you consider the test group.

The average distance that a lower single digit handicapper hits the ball is 240 which is also about the average distance on the LPGA.

Dave S

9 years ago

I wish I had a screengrab of the original article, but it definitely said 212, not 220. I think someone saw my comment and fixed the error. 212 absolutely WOULD have been a shock considering the test group.

Tony Covey

9 years ago

Dave – We did have an error in the original chart.

Wayne

9 years ago

On the web everyone drives the ball 300+ yards

james

9 years ago

I hit my drives 300+ yards on Facebook and GHIN.

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.