It’s a bit later than usual, but we’ll be publishing our annual CG report next week. In the meantime, we wanted to focus on a question we get asked quite a bit.
What’s the most forgiving driver?
The answer is a bit more nuanced than you’d likely hope. Forgiveness is one of those nebulous terms that golf companies like to throw around for the purposes of making an almost indisputable claim. Don’t let ‘em fool you though, whatever it is; it’s damn near always the polar opposite of workability.
More often than not, Forgiveness is a catch-all that includes proprietary face technology and moment of inertia (MOI). The former can be difficult to describe in any quantitative terms, which gives marketing departments freedom to make of it what they will. The latter, however, we can put numbers on. It can be measured and verified. And that’s all before we get into your ability to hit any given club consistently. There’s a case to be made that the most forgiving driver for you is the one you hit in the center most often. As I said, it’s nuanced. So, with that in mind, we’re focusing on what’s concrete.
The Most Forgiving Drivers of 2018
Please note, we’ve ranked according to heel/toe (Iyy) measurements of actual retail parts. USGA rules cap Iyy MOI at 5900 g-cm2, but it’s worth noting that the USGA does not currently have a cap on top/bottom MOI (Ixx). While the industry doesn’t discuss it as much, it may be worth considering top/bottom (Ixx) MOI, particularly for its role in spin consistency.
PING G400 MAX
|
MOI Iyy
|
5574 |
|
MOI Ixx
|
4121 |
|
Total MOI
|
9695 |
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Callaway Rogue
|
MOI Iyy
|
5166 |
|
MOI Ixx
|
3587 |
|
Total MOI
|
8753 |
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PING G400
|
MOI Iyy
|
5149 |
|
MOI Ixx
|
3714 |
|
Total MOI
|
8863 |
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TaylorMade M4
|
MOI Iyy
|
5114 |
|
MOI Ixx
|
3515 |
|
Total MOI
|
8629 |
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Cobra F8 (Weight Back)
|
MOI Iyy
|
4991 |
|
MOI Ixx
|
3189 |
|
Total MOI
|
8180 |
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All Model Tested
The chart below provides Iyy, Ixx, and Total MOI values for most of the drivers in our 2018 Most Wanted Driver (along with the PXG 0811X). We have left the Titleist 917 out as it has been replaced by the TS. For adjustable weight drivers, measurements were taken with the weights aligned in their highest MOI (rear) positions.
Also Consider
In addition to the Top 5, there are a couple of other drivers that those seeking maximum forgiveness may wish to consider.
While PXG didn’t provide a 0811XF for measurement purposes, the reported heel/toe MOI is said to match the G400 MAX. Ixx values are slightly lower compared to the G400 MAX.
We hope to have measurements for Titleist’s TS drivers soon. According to Titleist, the TS 2 has an MOI Iyy value of ~5250, which, if confirmed, would bump it up to #2 on this list.
Joonho Park
1 year agoI am waiting for the datas of TS2/TS3 too. Please update!
Jason Peterman
1 year agoAny updates on the TS and Srixon drivers?
Brewmaster
1 year agoAm I missing something? I added it up and the Tommy Armour TA1 is higher than Cobra.
golfinnut
1 year agoGood info right here. I’ll wait to see if your results on the Titleist TS2 are for real. Just so it can confirm my purchase!
GolfCodeWeekly *WIN FREE GOLF
1 year agoPersonally i am bored to death with driver performance reviews, having started golfing with wooden headed woods, i find modern drivers to be ludicrously easy to hit. In the end
FEEL is all that really matters, the difference in perfomance is irrelevant whether Joe Blow hits 230 or 242 matters not a jot, you need a club that suits your eye, feels right and you hit straight most of the time.
Hitting driver used to be a skill, now you can stand on one leg, take a wild swipe and clip it over 200 yards
Off centre hits are more telling than centred hits anyhow as that is where most people hit the ball
Angus
1 year agoAfter reading all the information about these new drivers, most of them I have tried. They are all good drivers and give similar results, however, I have a Titliest 915 D2 driver with a Diamana red 50 R shaft which is one shaft that I get the best results from. I took this shaft and put a universal tip on it so I could use it in these other drivers , and had better results with each make. I then brought a brand new 2018 shaft which is exactly the same make and model as the other one, for my Titliest 915. I could not believe how much straighter and further, I can hit the ball with this shaft , which just goes to show that getting the right shaft is the most important thing in buying a driver, but also remember that even two shafts of the same make and model can give totally different results.
J.P.
1 year agoI thought the G400 had a total MOI in the neighborhood of 9200 (vs 8863). Any idea what could be causing the discrepancy?
Keith Martin
1 year agoJust got the TS3 with Hazardous Yellow shaft and impressed through two rounds. Was playing Ping 400 SFT , which I really like, but have historically been a Titleist guy, so after some so-so 915/917’s tried the TS3 and it’s the club in my bag now.
justin
1 year agoi wonder how knuth high heat 257+ would stackup against big brands. suppose to be most forgiving…with lowest and deepest cg
would love to see article on high heat driver
Bob Pegram
1 year agoToo bad the new Srixon drivers weren’t tested. Reports are they hit the farther with the same ball speed. It would be interesting to look at that and compare it to the MOI numbers.
Johnny Penso
1 year agoThe only way you can hit the ball further with the same speed is with lower spin, assuming the same launch angle.
Sammy
1 year agoWhat do U can tell about Mizuno EZ comparing 2018 drivers? Its totally monster to me, any of these new high MOI drivers haven’t beat it. So easy that Mizuno skipped it…I agree that so easy. My swing speed is about 97 and I drive about 300 yards.
Brad
1 year ago…300 yards after rolling down the side of a mountain.
Tom Conroy
1 year agoYou might want to get yourself on a launch monitor, grab an Arccos sensor or something. Unless you’re playing on the top of Everest or in a steady tailwind, or your fairways are made of concrete instead of bent grass, if we assume perfect contact and the kind of ideal launch conditions few actually produce, your maximum potential carry is about 250. I’ll give you generous 25 worth of roll, but we’re still short of 300. The math just doesn’t work.
Sammy
1 year agoWake up guys. There is two way to hit ball…one is head speed and other is force U can get to the ball. Yes, i am slow swinger…but quick and fast…and launch monitor is very useful to me. Math diesnt work but balls do. Shaft is Fujikura motore speeder 6.3 ts stiff and ball is srixon zstar xv. I think people just cant understand that U can also use muscles.
Scoot24
1 year agoSorry Sammy but I agree with the other guys. Physics doesn’t lie and the shaft and “quickness” of your swing will not make that much of a distance.
Johnny Penso
1 year agoMethinks Sammy is a Russian bot…lol.
PG
1 year agoBuddy..
F=ma
a= dv/dt
v = velocity (speed)
Swing speed matters
Gordo
1 year agoYou forgot; the shortest distance between two points is a straight line!
Spitfisher
1 year ago60 years old, low single digit handicapper. 97 MPH club head speed, I can ramp up the speed over 100 MPH accuracy becomes diminished, spin increase.
At 97 mph, 9.5 degree head, launch at 13.5-14, spin at 2300-2600 rpm, attack angle at +4. Apex of shot of 80-90 feet. Decent angle of of 38 degrees, Taylormade M3 440 head, hazardus 5.5 shaft smash factor of 1.47 to 1.50.
My total roll out distance is 237- 250 with the slightest of baby fade.
300 Yards? or even 275 yards is nothing short of misleading- it can not happen with out the aid of a step hill, frozen pond or cart path bounce
Steve D
1 year agoThanks for the draw driver info.
One more question.
Are these beasts designed to start the ball left (ie slight pull) or to start the ball out to the right and draw it back online via spin?
Brad
1 year agoI think there is a bit of fallacy in ranking the forgiveness of a driver on MOI and face “technology”. If a robot or the “average” golfer is hitting the driver, then perhaps there is some truth the the rankings. However, there are no robots and very few “average” golfers on the golf courses of the world. If a golfer suffers from slicing, then there is likely more “forgiveness” for them from drivers like the Rogue Draw or Ping G400 SFT than from the G400 Max or Rogue. But, if a golfer consistently hits shots out of the toe, then a TM “twist my face” driver might provide them more “forgiveness” than the Rogue or Max, etc.
In other words, forgiveness very much depends on what particular “sin” a golfer suffers from when hitting their driver.
Scott24
1 year agoAgreed however TM’s twist face is a technology used by tour Edge for years that TM decided to sell as their latest greater when it’s actually a follow along with a lot of money for pros to sell it. Kind of like this perception on Pro V1 balls. Good marketing!
Stump
1 year agoTo me, the twist face is just a marketing gimmick. Sure, in theory it works, but in the real world, not so much. Isn’t the twistiest part of the face a half degree of twist? If that’s the case, the normal golfer cannot deliver the club with enough consistency to benefit from the Twist.
Johnny Penso
1 year agoTwist face isn’t a gimmick it’s based on real physics. It’s far more accurate to say that it works but that the effect is so small as to not be discernable other than through statistical analysis.
Vic
1 year agoTM taking points from Tour Edge? My word lol. Speaks once again, for the fine clubs made by Tour Edge.
Brad
1 year agoI agree that any effect “twist face” on high toe or low heel shots would be marginal, but probably measurable over a large enough data set. My main point was that if a golfer consistently hits high toe shots with their driver, then the “twist face” might actually provide that particular golfer with more forgiveness for those strikes than some other drivers would. TM is 99% about marketing, but occasionally they do make something reasonably good and not just a bunch of snake oil.
Mark
1 year agoNot sure why you added “While PXG didn’t provide a 0811XF for measurement purposes, the reported heel/toe MOI is said to match the G400 MAX.” Since when do you give credence to a manufacturer’s claim? What if Cobra claimed to be the longest, most forgiving – would you consider it valid? If that was the case, there wouldn’t be a need for MGS. As we all know (and love), MGS is where we get real results. Just surprised it was mentioned without any data to back it up. Not very MGS-like.
Tommy G.
1 year agoI agree with you. Saying an untested driver is equal to the #1 ranked driver definitely shows some bias towards PXG.
Tony Covey
1 year agoI’d argue that telling you what a manufacturer claims and then being completely transparent about the fact that we haven’t yet validated is 100% MGS-Like. That’s exactly why it’s not listed in our Top 5 or on the MOI chart.
We have established relationships with R&D guys at most manufacturers. In some cases, the bulk of what we do goes through PR, and in others, I’d say we’re still getting to know each other a bit. We have an established relationship with PXG, they’ve given us numbers before, and plus or minus the realities that from measuring methods and tolerances, the mass properties information they’ve given us has checked out. We’re very much trust (when we have established histories), but verify. We were 100% transparent about the fact that we had not yet verified.
And yes, I would tend to trust Cobra as I’ve known some of those guys for nearly a decade and they have a long history of shooting me straight. It’s pretty damn foolish for any OEM to outright lie about something that can be relatively easily measured, don’t you think? Generally what we find across the entire industry is that when an OEM gives an MOI number it’s pretty close. Often it comes down to the difference between CAD estimates vs. real-world parts.
What’s interesting to me is that you singled out PXG, but said nothing about the Titleist TS2 which we also listed based on information from the manufacturer. That, to me anyway, suggests you might be the one coming from a place of bias.
aivo
1 year agoI don.t follow the comment about listing the TS. the page that i’m looking at has no Titleist driver (confused).
808nation
1 year agoGreat write as usual Tony. As expected Ping has always been great drivers and with alot of positive reviews for it, I for one would definitely would want to try it.
Sr Golfer
1 year agoI can see by your graph that the drivers are ranked by moment of inertia with levels every thousand up to ten thousand, the highest being around 9600 and the lowest being about 6700. How significant is a 1000 difference and of course a 3000 difference and translate this into the real world Please.
Gordo
1 year agoSomeone asked about hitting the TA1 driver. I did, as well as most of the others, and found it out-performed those others as far as forgiveness. It seems to be the combination of MOI and swing weight used. Maybe it’s a few yards shorter but nothing else was straighter. Then, factoring this and the PRICE …. I bought the TA1 and found it’s been remarkable on the course. (This year’s wet weather has made the rough brutal for us old guys.) Believe me, I’ve been shocked by how good it really is!
Flounder
1 year agoI agree this driver is extremely forgiving. Most people won’t even look at it because of the name. They are all missing out. Traded the Rogue for the TA1 and loving it.
mackdaddy
1 year agoSince I cracked the crown of my M1 2016, I am back in the market for a driver. I am very interested in the question Tony asked about adding weight to the Ping G400 LST. I was playing my M1 with a 19g weight in the back and the red weight in the front because I like a heavier feel in my driver.
ICANDY
1 year agoI watched a Youtube video and heard that the Ping G400 LST is one of the heaviest heads on the market, best to check it out before adding weights.
Tony Covey
1 year agoPING is a little on the heavy side. Callaway is probably the lightest of the big OEMS (just under 200g), from there it creeps up a bit. TM is around 202, PING around 206.
Daniel
1 year agoLove this article! great way to compare drivers. I am in the market for a new driver, currently have a TM M1, and a Titleist 917D3, as i tend to be very “spinny” with my driver, these were the best option at the time for low spinning drivers. I can definitely hit the ball far, and usually pretty straight, but my miss is right… sometimes way right.
I have heard that Ping tends to be high spinning. Would the forgiveness for the G400 Max, be counteracted with how much the driver would Spin on me?
Terry McDowell
1 year agoI have the same problem and choosing a low spinning driver is NOT the answer for us. More backspin will actually reduce the side spin caused by path issues. If you play a big fade or even a slice then you need a driver that helps you square the face more. Don’t even worry about dropping your spin until you can square the face and have a more zeroed out path.
Daniel
1 year agoIs there a driver of choice that helps with this? lol
During my fitting for my 917D3 numbers were great, first round same thing, since then it has been downhill.
Terry McDowell
1 year agoPing G400 SFT, Calloway Rogue Draw are two great choices
Jordan
1 year agoI had the same issue with my 917D3 8.5. Hit it great in the sims but was losing alot to the right. I would either move your truefit into C3 setting or loft up. I went to a 9.5 917D2 and that really helped. I also tried a 10.5 D2 that I hit super straight, but it was catching high in the wind.
Basically a fitter will convince you that having an 8.5 head and even lofting down from there will give you optimal launch and spin conditions to maximize distance. But this means nothing if its off the fairway.
Kevin Grate
1 year agoAre you going to test the TaylorMade RBZ Black . It’s a entry-level club by TaylorMade I have the regular shaft which seems a little light but it is very forgiving would love to see your numbers on this club
Robin
1 year agoI have a Cobra F Max S That club is almost impossible to hit wrong !
Steve
1 year agoThe question from Tony about his added weight 16g to his G400 SFT bringing the swing weight up to a D7. Would that increase the overall OMI, as he asked? Really interested in your reply as I currently use the same driver, but without the added weight.
Jason
1 year agoWould like to see how the new Srixon drivers do as well as the new TS2 and TS3. My numbers with the z785 were pretty good according to launch monitors.
Sammy
1 year agoI am also very interested about new srixon drivers. Both them should be here…they are promising to blow out your ball speed….
Rick
1 year agoI tried both new Srixon drivers, stayed with Ping.
KingSingh
1 year agoInteresting to note that G400 LST has higher MOI than G LSTec despite having a 20cc smaller head. And it has almost the same MOI as the 460cc M3.
Would it be safe to assume that G400 LST and M3 are the most forgiving low spin drivers in the market today?
Or does the Epic SZ from last year trump them as it would be #5 on the 2018 list – which is extraordinary when one thinks about it.
therod
1 year agoThanks Tony. That’s on me, making a banket statement wthout lookng closer at the actual numbers. That makes more sense to me, because that Fly-Z is still a great drver. And like I mentioned elsewhere, I am thinking about putting one of the heavy weights in my Fly-Z and giving that a whirl.
CJ
1 year agoWould you happen to have #s on the Cobra King LTD? Had a lot of fanfare here as I recall on its CG being so low?
Tony Covey
1 year agoPublishing CG charts and full MOI numbers next week. You’ll be able to pull up the LTD on that.
CJ
1 year agoNice!
Kevin R
1 year agoThis was the only Golf spy analysis that I knew the answer before I saw the results. The Ping G400s are amazingly good clubs.
Tim J
1 year agoYou said proprietary face tech can be difficult to describe in any quantitative terms. There might be a lot in that face tech.
Would it be possible to get right down to the actual response of the driver in different parts of the face by using an iron Byron and impact tape and testing impact at different parts of the face? Set it to swing 95mph and just adjust ball position? I do this myself when I test drivers and I see some interesting things.
It seems this obsession with MOI is leading us down a rabbit hole of drivers with the CG way in the back of the head. I dont like these types of drivers. And yet it seems this decade will be marked by these ridiculous things.
Its not that hard to hit the middle of the face, really. It is much harder to get face and path perfect. I find High MOI drivers tend to exacerbate spin issues associated with face and path issues. The CG is so far away that you never really get a truly nutted strike.
Dave H
1 year agoThe shocker on this list, too me, would be the Tommy Armour TA1. Its 6th on the list with a IYY of 4980 and 5th overall at 8282. Has anyone ever hit this driver?
Steve S
1 year agoIt’s been my experience that the high MOI drivers(or the rear weight position) leads to a higher spin rate and higher launch. I swing up with the driver(attack angle of 4-5 degrees) so I don’t need as much help with launch. The higher spin seems to cause “ballooning” and a loss of distance. Anyone measure spin rates in the forward position of the weights vs. back and that effect on MOI?
Tony Covey
1 year agoAbsolutely, the farther back the CG the more dynamic loft is created. Higher dynamic loft means higher launch, and since launch and spin are correlated, you get higher spin too. In past years the impact of this has been exacerbated by vanity lofting (intentionally manufacturing higher than stated loft because golfers like to buy less loft than they need). That’s changing as companies are now manufacturing to lower target lofts. You can’t change consumer habits (a guy who has always bought a 9.5° is always going to buy a 9.5° driver), so rather than manufacture heads at 9° and 10°, you’re seeing a change in target specs. While just a couple of years ago, the target loft for a 9.5° driver may have been 10°, because of the impact of back CG on dynamic loft, the target spec for a 9.5° is in some cases 9°. The idea is to get it to launch like what a consumer expects from a 9.5° regardless of CG placement.
Ultimately, what you get is a reduction in dynamic loft to mitigate the impact of rear CG (doesn’t launch as high or spin as much), while still reaping the benefits of higher MOI since it’s entirely independent from loft.
Roger
1 year agoWhere’s the Srixon driver of the year?
Tony Covey
1 year agoThis list is the drivers that were in our 2018 Most Wanted Test (plus the PXG). We have the info on the previous gen Srixon’s in our CG tables (you can look them up, or wait for the new version to publish next week). We don’t have numbers on the new models yet, but I’d guess the 585 will come in a bit over 5000.
Roger
1 year agoThanks Tony!
Joel
1 year agoDoes this align with shot area from testers? If it is forgiveness you are measuring then it should be more consistent and have a smaller shot area, right?
Tony Covey
1 year agoWe do see a correlation, but it’s not absolute. As mentioned, face technology also plays a role, but we the reality is that everybody has some type of face tech, so the gaps aren’t huge. There’s no substitute for center contact for consistency.
I should also point out that higher MOI is often used as a justification for increasing shaft length. In many cases, that gets you more distance on your best swings, and the theory is that the higher MOI can offset distance losses resulting from the off-center strikes that will happen more frequently with the longer shaft.
Tim J
1 year agoAwesome Stuff! Awesome awesome stuff! Discussing the top to bottom MOI is a completely new conversation and an very interesting one for a golf technology nerd like me.
retired04
1 year agoTony-Great info, maybe best ever-even for us old guys.
Question: Were the weights in the T/Made m3 in the back heel/toe spots or in the center channel or what? Thanks
Tony Covey
1 year agoThe numbers shown are based on the max MOI position which would be weights at the rear tips of the ‘Y’.
Omer
1 year agoWhat would you say was the MOI of 2016 M2, which is probably the most popular driver in the last 3-4 years ?
Tony Covey
1 year agoOriginal M2 we have at 4601/2944/7345.
James
1 year agoAny chance this test was performed on the 2016 M1 with the weights set in the back (there was an article on this site) to make it perform similar to the M2?
Tony Covey
1 year agoUnfortunately no. That configuration is a bit of a golf hack (a pretty good one though), we never measured CG or MOI in that configuration. The original M1 was on the lower end for MOI, so even with both weights back, I can confidently predict that it wouldn’t be anywhere near the leaders. Best case +/- Iyy 4500.
Timbo
1 year agoWhat is the link on that article?
Steve Bersch
1 year agowhy is the Callaway ranked #2 instead of the Ping G400 which has a higher MOI
Tony Covey
1 year agoAs mentioned right above where the rankings start, drivers are ranked based on MOI Iyy (heel/toe) because that’s the key metric that the industry (and the USGA) use for discussions of MOI.
Iyy values for Rogue and PING G400 are likely a statistical push, but since the Rogue had the higher measured MOI Iyy value it’s listed second.
therod
1 year agoI’m still gaming my Fly-Z. And I’ve always wondered what the forgiveness numbers looked like if I put a heavy weight in the back of the sole in place of the standard weight. Especially compared to these newer heads. The Fly-Z is still a great head.
Max Johnson
1 year agoI just (as in Tuesday) bought a used Fly-Z on Ebay and am eagerly awaiting its arrival. It has the upgraded Adila Green shaft. I have about a 105 swing speed. Ive read soem reviews that make me think i may have issues because you cant move the weight like in the Fly Z +. What say you?
Therod
1 year agoI’ve talked to guys that either hit both drivers or played with the weights in their Fly-Z plus. The consensus was that the weight forward slightly reduced spin, and gave maybe 8-10 yards, tops. I wouldn’t worry about it, just go play your Fly-Z, it’s still a great driver.
Michael
1 year agoI’m a little shocked to see that the Ping G400 SFT has the lowest MOI of the G400 Drivers. Does that mean that it’s the least forgiving of the Ping drivers?
Tony Covey
1 year agoThis is likely one of the most misunderstood areas of driver design. MOI is a factor of mass (how heavy is the driver) and its location (is it centrally placed or pushed to the perimeter). Distance from the center of mass is key variable here. That last bit is why high MOI designs are often longer than so-called workable designs that tend to be a bit more squat.
So with that said, it’s important to understand that drivers like G400 SFT, M4 D-Type, and Rogue Draw aren’t designed to be forgiving (at least not with respect to how that word relates to MOI). They’re designed for shot shape correction, more specifically, they’re designed to be anti-slice. For that to work, a significant amount of mass must be allocated to the heel-side of the golf club, which results in a placement of discretionary mass that is both more forward and closer to the CG on a comparative basis. As a result, heavily draw biased clubs are almost invariably lower MOI than their standard model equivalents.
Michael
1 year agoThank you for the explanation and helping to increase my understanding of all of this.
Tony
1 year agoSo with that explanation, and realizing mass/head weight is a factor in measuring MOI, most draw biased/slice correction drivers tend to be lighter or have lower swing weights to encourage face rotation.
For example the G400 SFT comes standard at 203g and D1, where as the G400 Max and G400 come in at 206g and D3.
I play my G400 SFT with a 16g weight in the back bringing it up to D7. Does the increased head/swing weight then increase the MOI in any measurable way?
Mich Matos
1 year agoWould be quite Interesting to see how past Most Wanted Driver winners stack up to this crop. I swear i might still be hitting Cobra Fly Z 10 years from now. Never experienced such forgiveness on miss hits.
Tony Covey
1 year agoFLY-Z was just a tick over 4900.
therod
1 year agoSo from an analytical numerical perspective, the Ping Max is twice as forgiving as the Fly-Z. Having played the Fly-Z for several years now, that’s a scary comparison.
Tony Covey
1 year agoNo. Fly-Z has a MOI Iyy value of about 4900 (we don’t have iXX values for it), so it’s really closer to 13% more forgiving based on heel/toe MOI.