No. Driver Distance Isn’t Maxed Out
Drivers

No. Driver Distance Isn’t Maxed Out

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No. Driver Distance Isn’t Maxed Out
“This is all BS.”
“Drivers have reached the limit. There’s nothing manufacturers can do about it.”

In one form or another, we’ve received that particular bit of feedback a hundred times over. I’ve responded personally, in detail, at least a half a dozen times. We heard something like it again on our recent story on the Titleist TS Driver – and I responded again.

Given how frequently the assertion is made, we decided to pull my reply out of the comments section, add a bit of additional detail, clean it up a bit, and stick it on the front page. We think it’s time golfers fully understood what the USGA limits really mean and where the line is between distance reality and distance mythology.

Permit me to start by being absolutely clear in saying that short of a proper fitting, the newness of any head isn’t going to give you anything close to 10 more yards. That shipped sailed. Year-over-year, responsible manufacturers don’t promise much in any quantifiable terms. From a marketing perspective, faster is much more impactful than an honest promise of 1-more yard. But small as the gains may be, let me also be clear when I say that driver distance is not maxed out.

One more time with feeling: DRIVER DISTANCE IS NOT MAXED OUT.

While this story focuses on distance, I want to also briefly touch on forgiveness (MOI). The USGA’s cap on MOI for any single axis (heel to toe is the one we discuss most often) is 5900. The highest MOI model on the market right now is the PING G400 MAX with an iyy (heel/toe) MOI value of ~5700. That doesn’t leave a ton of room, but it’s quite obviously not maxed out, either. The rest of the industry still has plenty of opportunities to make gains and that’s before we talk about MOI in other directions. We can haggle about the point of diminishing returns on MOI some other day. Today is about showing that there is still room within the rules for the OEMs to dabble.

With that out of the way, let’s get to what many believe is the hard stop on distance-driven innovation.

CT vs. COR

So that we’re all on the same page, let’s cover exactly what the USGA is testing and make sure everyone knows the numbers. The limit for CT is 239μs (microseconds). The USGA allows for a tolerance of another 18 microseconds, making the real-world limit 257μs . To measure CT, a golf club is secured in a pendulum testing apparatus, the pendulum is dropped on the clubface, and the measurement is taken. The process is repeated over several points on the face. The actual CT measurement (characteristic time) reflects the duration over which the pendulum remains in contact with the face. More face flexure translates as more rebound (and theoretically more speed), and so the CT rule is often characterized as a limit on how much the clubface is allowed to flex.

The CT rule was implemented in 2004. Previously (beginning in 1998), the USGA rules were based on COR (coefficient of restitution). The COR limit was .822 with a tolerance of .008, which is how we get to the commonly referenced .830 limit. Your definition for COR (courtesy of Wikipedia) is this: The coefficient of restitution (COR) is the ratio of the final to initial relative velocity between two objects after they collide.

As it relates to the USGA rule, it’s pretty simple. If you fire a golf ball into a clubhead at a speed of 100MPH, the ball’s rebound velocity can’t exceed 83MPH. Much like the USGA’s current ball tests, the COR test was rigid and exceptionally difficult to engineer around. Face tech, body tech, anything else manufacturers could dream up, the limit on velocity was absolute. The downside of using COR is that the test requires a higher degree of precision in the setup. Getting everything lined-up up as precisely as it needed to be was difficult and time-consuming, and not always 100% repeatable. And so, the CT test was born.

Why does this matter?

I’ve been told of at least four drivers on the market today (and I’d wager there are more) that would not be legal under the COR test, but that passed the CT test. Companies don’t discuss this stuff publicly because nobody wants to ruffle feathers or raise the attention (and ire) of the USGA. It’s my understanding the USGA has reserved the right to test COR at its discretion, but the insiders I’ve spoken with are unaware of any situation where that’s happened.

The takeaway from this is that COR testing is damn near absolute, but with CT, there’s still just a little bit of wiggle room within the rules.

Now that we have a handle on exactly what it is that’s being testing, let’s for a moment assume that everyone in the industry is right at the 257μs limit. The actual portion of the face where 100% of the allowable CT is maintained represents a small percentage of the total face area. Missing the sweet spot by just a few millimeters drops ball speed. As you move farther from center, ball speed declines even more. So, as manufacturers boost MOI in conjunction with face technologies that retain a greater percentage of ball speed on off-center hits, they are effectively increasing real-world distance. I’d wager that many golfers tend to think of off-center misses as something way out on the toe or a low heal clank, but in terms of what has a quantifiable impact on ball speed, off-center means literally anything that isn’t damn near dead-nuts center. You miss the sweet spot, ball speed drops. Through actual advances in driver technology, every year it’s dropping a bit less over a larger area of the face, and you’re getting more distance because of it.

Bottom line, even if every manufacturer was at 257μs in the sweet spot, most of the rest of the face isn’t close.

Distance isn’t Just About Ball Speed

It’s also important to keep in mind that the USGA testing, in practical terms, addresses ball speed only. Distance isn’t simply a matter of ball speed. While ball speed is the most significant contributor, launch and spin also play a role in distance. If a given design allows the golfer to hit the ball higher with less spin, distance will increase even if ball speed is constant. The USGA has no test that regulates the relationship between launch and spin. This is why the evolution of CG placement is so critical. If you look at where driver CG was five years ago compared to where it is today, the improvement is undeniable.

Think about this: the COR rule was put in place in 1998. It was replaced by the CT rule in 2004. Does anyone here honestly believe that drivers made in 1998 or even one made in 2004 will perform as well as one made in 2018? By that thinking, distance gains should have ended 14 years ago. Granted, OEMs continue to oversell distance (everything is faster and more forgiving), but despite pervasive myths to the contrary, nobody has promised 10 more yards! in the driver category in a close to a decade. Gains are small, but they’re real.

All of this is before we start talking about things like aerodynamics – if the clubhead produces less drag, you can swing it faster. More head speed = more ball speed. Apart from rules governing basic shape and dimension, the USGA does not have any rules for aerodynamic properties. Gains here are also admittedly small, and they disproportionally favor higher swing speed players, but even small gains defeat any argument of maxed out.

Weight is another contributing factor to distance. Some golfers swing lighter clubs faster. Again, more head speed = more ball speed.

Shafts are another area that golfers overlook when making the “distance is maxed argument”. We don’t swing clubheads, we swing golf clubs, and every one of those has a shaft. If a shaft can store more energy and deliver it to the ball at impact, you have a recipe for more distance. Manufacturers – even shaft manufacturers – are only just beginning to fully understand what is achievable by way of improved shaft designs. I believe the shaft category is the closest thing we have to the next frontier in driver distance.

Those last bits are why fitting is now a crucial part of the distance equation. Companies often design for the middle of the market, but taking the time to get fit and thereby leveraging the right combination of all of the above to fit your game, you can unlock quite a bit more distance. Maybe even 10 more yards.

The Industry’s Dirty Little CT Secret

Finally, let’s circle back to where I suggested we assume everyone hits the 257μs limit. That was absurd on my part. Only a tiny percentage of drivers manufactured today have a CT approaching 257μs.

As with anything else in the club space, drivers have CT tolerances. For any production run, actual CTs from part to part fall on a bell curve. For most brands, only a small percentage of those that make it to retail butt right up against the limit. For some companies, the bulk, if not all, of the high/max CT heads end up in the tour department, and the really hot ones end up in the special drawer.

Some aren’t going to want to hear this, but this is an area where larger brands have a pronounced advantage. Larger brands often have tighter control over the factories – and many have staff who work out of those factories to help ensure quality – CT being one of the metrics that larger brands (higher volume) can more rigidity maintain. Smaller brands who produce in smaller volume have less control and often greater variance from part to part. Tighter tolerances cost more and without the volume that large OEMs have, it’s difficult to maintain tight CT tolerances and still make the requisite margin. Everybody has a production curve, but with larger brands, the spread isn’t as wide.

We’ve seen this in our testing. Not so long ago, we had a couple of heads for which the performance wasn’t quite measuring up to past experience, so we sent them off to be tested by a 3rd party. What we found was a different CG position, different MOI measurements, and slightly lower CT. This is the reality of production. You could get a hot head (possibly even over the limit), but you’re more likely to get one that’s safely under the limit, and in the worst of cases, a complete dud.

Another example; we recently had several heads CT-checked. The actual measured values ranged from 219μs to 254μs, with an average of  236.3μs. Tell me again about how everything is already at the limit.

Not to get off-track, but this is exactly why I always recommend you buy the exact club you demoed.

Improving tolerances is part of the reason why you see a shift towards manufacturing consistency as part of the marketing/performance story. You saw this with Cobra’s F8 story last year. Titleist says it takes measures to ensure every TS head is on spec. Others will almost certainly follow suit in 2019, but we’re still a long way from squeezing the curve entirely. The consequence of that is that while the technical limit might be 257μs, actual design targets for most are much closer to 239-240μs with an expected tolerance of 10μs.

It’s a safe bet that nobody that no one is actively designing much higher than that because, while 257μs might be the limit, hitting the 250μs mark will likely raise eyebrows at the USGA. An insider I spoke with last week told me a CT of 250μs all but guarantees a warning letter from the USGA and could kick off a full-scale investigation, which would include, among other things, acquiring retail heads for testing. Nobody wants that, but at the same time, manufacturers will look to be more aggressive as improved manufacturing methods evolve to produce more consistent results that yield consistent CTs  (likely just below 250μs).

As that happens, more golfers will get drivers that are ACTUALLY closer to the limit rather than a driver that falls somewhere within a broad specification that currently includes anything from a head at (and in some cases over) the limit or another that, by comparison, is woefully slow. Manufacturing consistency itself is a means to increase the distance golfers experience.

What’s important to understand in the distance is maxed debate is that USGA regulates only one piece of the distance equation. It’s not an insignificant piece, but it’s far from the only piece. There are a myriad of ways manufacturers are squeezing out a bit of extra distance, and while I think it’s reasonable to say that short of some massive material breakthrough (like Titanium was), evolution will be plodding (a yard – maybe a bit more, maybe less – each year), the manufacturers most definitely still have some room in which to work.

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Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony is the Editor of MyGolfSpy where his job is to bring fresh and innovative content to the site. In addition to his editorial responsibilities, he was instrumental in developing MyGolfSpy's data-driven testing methodologies and continues to sift through our data to find the insights that can help improve your game. Tony believes that golfers deserve to know what's real and what's not, and that means MyGolfSpy's equipment coverage must extend beyond the so-called facts as dictated by the same companies that created them. Most of all Tony believes in performance over hype and #PowerToThePlayer.

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey





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      Jim Sauer

      4 years ago

      Tony-Please put things in perspective for me. All things being equal, 100mph club head speed, how much further will a head with a 256CT hit a ball compared to a 238CT head?

      Reply

      albatrossx3

      6 years ago

      So what you are saying in the end is it is $500 per yard of distance gain each year. Not exactly cost effective for most of us.

      Reply

      Comarx17

      6 years ago

      Good read. Drivers today for me are more forgiving specially on off center hits and easier to control. Comapring my old XHot Driver with the M4 using the same shafts for both I gained about 5 yards longer in carry distance and straighter ball flight

      Reply

      DaveMac

      6 years ago

      OK Tony, so there is significant room for performance gains while remaining within the rules! MyGolfSpy prides itself of its data driven conclusions, so put the 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 most wanted driver winners into next year’s test and let the data prove your assertion.

      Reply

      Tony Covey

      5 years ago

      “significant” is your word, not mine. In fact, I think I said a yard or two.

      Reply

      Brady

      4 years ago

      So 2 questions. . .

      Whenever it is we do get to “maxed out” -how much farther will drives go over today’s models?

      And,

      Are center face strikes maxed out now? And if so how long have they been?

      Yanni Fondaki

      6 years ago

      My solutio:

      Epic Driver, +2′ shaft and play the Callaway Supersoft. I’m 50 with a 103-108 clubhead speed. It’s just gonna go…

      I’ve gotten used to the lack of greenside spin. Just club down your approach shots and let the ball release.

      Reply

      Brad

      6 years ago

      Honestly, all of this debate is a bunch of BS and people need to get out and play golf. The idea that getting 1 or even 10 more yards from a driver is going to lower scores and handicaps is ridiculous. Golfers need to be practicing the variety of shots they will hit from various distances and lies so that they can have more weapons in their arsenal to actually play golf better. Going to the range and smacking the crap out of their driver trying to hit it 300 yards, or searching for that “magic” driver that will, only means they will NEVER improve as golfers. Practice pitching, chipping, and putting and watch your scores plummet…

      Reply

      Bill

      6 years ago

      Great response, I agree for the average player work on something you can control………….

      Reply

      Scoot24

      6 years ago

      I agree that pitching and putting will lower scored more than anything else……..unless of course you find a way to keep your drives in play.

      Reply

      Brad

      6 years ago

      True, but if finding the fairway is the goal a 3-wood or driving iron is probably going to work better for most amatuer golfers. If maxing out the CT or MOI of a driver really made much of a difference in finding the fairway then handicaps should have dropped significantly between the 1990s and now. They havent, and that’s because too many golfers still spend 90% of the practice time working on the wrong thing – smashing the crap out of the ball.

      Crash Test Dummy

      6 years ago

      Yeah, but those minute fractions in CT and COR are pretty negligible unless you flush your driver every shot like the robot golfer. But even then, you are still only talking about a few yards here or there. A well fit driver/shaft combo with the right ball will reap much more gains in distance and accuracy.

      Reply

      Andrew

      6 years ago

      One of the main points of the article is that more MOI and larger sweet spots are making it possible to get better distance on off center strikes, which is where most of us hit it most of the time. This is increasing our actual distance, not just our theoretical max. Also, that all things considered, maxing out launch angles and spin rates leads to more distance, which has nothing to do with CT.

      Reply

      Jim Woolford

      6 years ago

      can’t all this be all modeled?At least as I understand it there is a theoretical maximum that someone with a swing speed of xxx mph should hit a xxx golf ball assuming the best fitting shaft etc. including angle that one hits a ball etc. at the maximum tolerances allowed by USGA. The question is what is that max distance given the maximum performance that can be achieved? It is no open ended. Clearly the club head theoretically can only do so much – that’s where the shaft (and fitting) comes in. So my question is can’t GolfSpy calculate the theoretical max someone with a certain swing speed can or should expect. That way – with this baseline – a player can assess whatever distance they hit a given club against this theoretical maximum. So,If I’m demoing a driver within 5 to 10 yards of this max, personally this is close enough given the variances in my swing. Continuing to pursue the additional 5 to 10 yards may not be worth the investment . Others may feel differently. Isn’t that what fitting is all about?

      Reply

      mackdaddy

      6 years ago

      Adam, Great article. I am a believer. I have been fit for my driver and have a fully tested tour issue M1 head with an amazing Matrix Ozik TP 7 Hd shaft. I have tested the head with 7 other shafts and it gains between 7-16 yards over those. The fitter realized I needed a heavier weight in the back of my club to optimize my ball flight so he put the red weight in the front and a 19 g weight in the back. The weight change straightened and raised my ball flight and added 6 yards and tightened my dispersion down to 15’6″ from 17′ 2″. The side benefit is with the added weight I rarely over rotate and come over the top. I don’t think center strikes will be improved significantly but I agree the off center strikes are hugely improving.

      Reply

      Rod_CCCGOLFUSA

      6 years ago

      Thanks for pointing out the manufacturing tolerances that underlie equipment performance differences. Like most independent fitters, I pay vendors to hand pick Driver heads to meet parameters that I specify. I then measure them myself and with a follow-up fitting using a Flightscope launch monitor with the client. I wish I could promise monster distance gains with each product update, but that isn’t happening. The once-a-week golfer just does not generate the clubhead speed and consistent ball strike to realize major distance gains just by putting a new driver in play—-even if it’s one of mine. I think you are on the right track about shafts, however. Almost no recreational golfer is playing a shaft that fits their swing for swing load, release point, launch angle, shot dispersion, and feel. The range of shaft weights, torque levels, bend points, and other variables is huge, and shafts impact ball speed, spin rates, launch angles, and club face angles at impact. The marketing boys haven’t figured out a way to make the shaft the sexy part of the driver. When they do, the door will open to drives that are straighter, more consistent, and, yes, longer.

      Reply

      Mr. B

      6 years ago

      Why haven’t the shafts been include in this discussion on distance (and accuracy)?

      Reply

      Scoot24

      6 years ago

      They were in the “Distance Isn’t Just About Speed” section.

      Reply

      Lance Sedevie

      6 years ago

      What you speak about is exactly what Adams did with their Xtd line in 2013 See this article http://hodsongolf.com/2013/10/11/adams-xtd-driver-update-tech-specs/ Adams was legit and tm ruined it

      Reply

      Bladeho

      6 years ago

      Another related topic that is hardly ever talked about is the achievable optimum distance. My clubfitter asked me about my average carry and total distance and then he looked up in a chart what my optimum distance could be regarding physics and ideal trajectory. As my smash factor with my current Ping Rapture I driver is between 1.48 and 1.52 he suggested that tinkering would not help more than a couple of yards at best as I am too close to what distance is attainable with my swing speed. So I guess I have a ten year old driver that still produces very good numbers (it already had 460cc and carbon crown and did not have to battle with weight disturbances through adjustability features) . And the forgiveness also is still excellent. So therefore the only investment that really makes sense is something that causes my swing speed to go up like maybe the new Speed Sticks.

      Reply

      Andy Almodova

      6 years ago

      Hey, I have a Rapture that is as long as anything out now. I also have a TM SLDR and I am consistently longer with the Ping. I honestly believe that golf is a racket. I do enjoy collecting forged irons but i never buy new. I save by buying clubs that are a few generations old. Even though I have about 12 sets of clubs they are all fun to hit, and they don’t play any differently than the latest sticks.

      Reply

      George

      6 years ago

      Tony thanks for the nice write-up. This confirms my thinking on trying the demo clubs. Every time my Club has demo day I go out and try the new Drivers, and if I like the way it hits I try to buy it. The rep will never sell me the demo, but insist I buy one from the pro shop and I’ve done it several times but they never hit the same. I have come to the conclusion that the demos are the nonconforming Drivers that are hotter.

      Reply

      Peter Deem

      6 years ago

      I agree with George. This has happened to me which leads me to believe the club reps get jacked up demos.

      Reply

      Spitfisher

      6 years ago

      i can confirm my fitting metal woods come right from retail packaging, heads and shafts……if your clubs are good enough and you’re manufacturing clubs at the highest tolerances, why would you mess with amateurs who may not hit it on the face precisely anyway.

      great article Tony,good job

      Reply

      Frank D.

      6 years ago

      Thanks Tony, that is the best explanation of driver testing I’ve read. As I continue my quest to find the best clubs for my game, I have found that the only, and I repeat only way to find the longest driver with the tightest dispersion, is to go and hit bunch during a fitting session. Don’t have a brand in mind, just try different drivers/shafts until you find a couple that are so closely matched that the only thing you have to decide is which one you like better- regardless of brand. That is the only way you get what is best for you. My personal opinion of course, but the latest and greatest driver is just brand hype until you’ve proven it in a fitting session.

      Reply

      Jeffrey Steinsdorfer

      6 years ago

      I dont know … From my experience , when they went to the lower spin drivers about 5 years ago ( Think SLDR ) , combined with the newer low spin balls of recent , there was a monumental shift in distance gained . Trouble is , is nobody including my self , embraced it as new technology and made the proper changes to make the distance gained a reality . Whats that mean ? Well to me it meant lofting up my driver and hitting drives on the up swing . I have always hit drives on a neutral angle of attack or even down some and that just wont work with these new batch of drivers , just not enough spin to keep it airborne . When I first started using my 2016 M1 , I thought it was a dud , less distance than my old setup , quite a bit actually . But once I learned to to power the ball up in the air on a slight upswing , like a strike of lightning , it all came together and I started gaining 10 – 30 yards on my drives . I have always been a long hitter with 285 average but since adopting to the new way of driving the ball with these new drivers , its gone way up . Not to mention when the wind is at your back and you get it up in the stratosphere with no spin it can go 350 + quite . I have been playing almost 50 years and when these new low spin drivers came there was a monumetal shift in driver distances gained in my experience . Trouble is , most people wont make the changes necessary to get the most out of the equipment . Loft up and hit on the upswing guys

      Reply

      JB Cobb III

      6 years ago

      Rick Sheils did this test with every major manufacturers drivers over the last 5 model changes. This meant the last 8-10 years of drivers. And, the biggest distance change was about 10 yards from any manufacturer! Driver technology isn’t advanced to the point to warrant another $400-500 dollar if you have purchased one in the last 5-10 years. Shaft length is out of control. No average golfer needs a 45″ plus shaft unless your Wilt Chamberlain! Now, getting truly fitted, finding the correct shaft, taking lessons to correct swing errors and practicing, that could get you significant yardage. That being said, if you can maximize COR, CT, and MOI and be truly customizable to a golfer, does that make Wishons 919 the best head available? The only thing that will advance distance from what it is now, equipment wise, is for manufacturers to make non-compliant clubs. But, Arnold Palmer got chastised for saying that about Callaways driver in the early 2000s!

      Reply

      don

      6 years ago

      My buddy got fitted for his m1 a few years ago. They ordered it so he would get a brand new one and he got a dud. Sent it back as broken but it wasn’t. The dealer he got it from switched it with his used demo and bam. Switched the shafts and the new got slightly better but the demo one suffered slightly even though they were supposed to be the same. Bottom line as Tony has said, buy the one that you hit, do not let them order you one. Even the shafts all come off the line slightly differently. He simply got both a crappy head and shaft while the demo he hit had a far better head and shaft. The dealer acknowledged they always get one demo every year that out performs the others so they save it. In this case my buddy now has it.

      Reply

      Paul

      6 years ago

      One thing that’s ALWAYS left out of the distance equation is MASS. Great, we can swing a clubhead faster, but of the head is LIGHTER, we don’t gain distance, necessarily. It’s been shown (Tiger Woods early 2000’s) that a steep shaft, with a small head can actually hit a ball further than we currently do. Companies still have mass to “mess with”!

      Reply

      Peep

      6 years ago

      I agree with this. I have an old Xhot driver thats 43″ and has about a nautical mile of lead tape on it (want to say that head weighs around 235g though i cant exactly remember). Its like hitting a fly with a sledge hammer. Almost sounds/feels like the ball literally explodes when i hit it between the screws. And it goes farther than the 2018 45″ 200g model of another brand i picked up a few months ago.

      Reply

      Lance Sedevie

      6 years ago

      Precisely what ping does. Heavier hammer

      Reply

      Franmangolfer13

      6 years ago

      Given this discussion of CT have you tested or demo’d the Knuth Golf High Heat Clubs? Their marketing claims to push the CT limit in the center and be higher off center for better mis-hits. Do we throw the BS flag or are they worth a try?

      Reply

      JLS

      6 years ago

      Okay – I just saw another comment that triggered me and rather than reply only to that comment I wanted to put this out on it’s own. Getting fit matters. The notion that everyone and anyone short of a professional golfer has a swing that is so inconsistent that being fit is irrelevant is simply not true. Now understand that someone who has been fit has the same chance of losing their their swing or have a bad day on the course, no one is immune to this. Interpreting that bad day or a few bad swings as now having a club that doesn’t fit you is some of the most flawed logic that I’ve seen. Some of this I think is fueled by the idea that if you have a club that is custom fit for you that you then can’t make a bad swing and everything should be long and down the middle. This notion is flat wrong. The point of getting fit is to hopefully help the golfer make a few more good swings than they do now and then when there is a bad swing the consequences of that bad swing wont be as significant. Maybe your a little longer (a few yards) and you hit 2-3 more fairways on average over the course of 18 holes. If you take that logic and carry it through a golf season maybe your scoring average drops 2-4 strokes. Isn’t that the point of the game, don’t we want to shot lower scores?

      Reply

      Ciri Cuenco

      6 years ago

      Thank you for information it really clarified all of my concerns about if I have the right driver that I game with. I always tinker with my equipment, and I always think about this way mostly with my driver.

      Reply

      ROBERT PACE

      6 years ago

      how does CT get measured for 3 woods.
      remember rorys nuclear 3 wood, only hit it 325 or so.
      adams came out with a 3 wood over 300 CT, got dialed back.
      any restrictions on hollow body 2 irons?
      since most amateurs hit down on the ball, hitting something other than driver might yield better results..250 straight beats 300 out.
      oh right its an ego thing…and ego moves product.

      Reply

      Andre

      6 years ago

      You mix up the driver head and the fitting, noticeably the head + the shaft when you say “Some golfers swing lighter clubs faster”. And Some golfers swing heavier clubs faster, so what ?
      Same with the CG. The effect of moving the CG will be different depending on the thaft profile, the moment at which the golfer releases, his swing speed, his angle of attack… So what ?
      As fot the higher MOI it can well, as said by Tim J, make handling the driver far more inconsistent. Nike tried that a few years ago, and it was a failure… An why not talk about the driver length ? On a robot, making a shaft longer will no doub increase the distance, but what for humans ? Most of the time, shorter is better. Isn’tRicky Fowler driver 43.5 ” long ?
      Now the argument of aerodynamics is laughable. How is this measured ? In an air flow, with the face facing that flow , which happens only for some 1/1000 ‘ before impact, yes. Can this have a noticeable effect ? Certainly not. And what about the drag during the transition and downswing ?
      As for a 2004 head 257 CT on a well fitted driver to the golfer’s swing, swing speed, and angle of attack, no doubt it will be better performing for most golfers than a 2018 driver taken out of the rack or even basically “fitted” in a golf sore.

      Reply

      Brewmaster

      6 years ago

      So what your saying is the Nike sumo 5900 is the greatest driver ever made!?!!!?!

      Reply

      Terry McDowell

      6 years ago

      Yes but don’t tell anybody. Otherwise the aftermarket price of those drivers will skyrocket

      Reply

      JLS

      6 years ago

      So I’ve already seen some arguments in the comments section that in essence concede the point that drivers are not “maxed out” but that the gains are so small that those gains are negligible. Effectively this is an acknowledgement that you may gain very small distance but for practical purposes the end result is the same. While I don’t necessarily disagree that those very small marginal gains in distance are often inconsequential to the game every golfer has a threshold that allows them to hit one less club into a green or finally be able to clear a hazard. I guess my point in making this comment is that even a gain that is measured to be very small can have a material impact in how a golfer is able to play the game.

      Reply

      Tony Covey

      6 years ago

      This is a critical insight that’s often overlooked. There’s always a point at which one more yard matters. At some point it’s the difference between clubs. Into the green, it can mean the difference between a 8-footer and a 5-footer for birdie. Every little bit matters, every little bit counts. The unsettled bit is how many revisions of 1-more yard justify $500 for a new driver.

      Reply

      Johnny Penso

      6 years ago

      With all due respect the “one more yard” equation of the 5 foot vs. the 8 foot putt is not true. One extra yard in the fairway can just as easily put you 3 more feet beyond where you might have been or 3 feet closer.

      Tony Covey

      6 years ago

      I understand your point, but the “just as easily” argument doesn’t hold up to the statistical evidence. Every bit of amateur data we’ve seen strongly suggests that average golfers overwhelmingly miss their targets short. The probabilities say that one more your is significantly more likely to put you closer to the pin than farther from it.

      Johnny Penso

      6 years ago

      If statistics indicate golfers overwhelmingly miss their targets short, they are missing them short from 100, 120, 150 etc., in other words, all distances. So why would they not also be missing them short from 99, 119 and 149? You’re drawing a mathematical conclusion by conflating two unrelated statistics. More accurately, for the sake of argument assume the average player is 15 feet short from 150, 14 feet short from 140, 10 feet short from 100 etc. That means at 149 he’ll on average be 14′ 10.8″ short so the benefit is 1.2″ for that extra yard. Those are just assumed distances but it doesn’t matter what the actual distances are, the effect of moving up 1 yard in the fairway is incredibly small on the average shot based on statistical averages.

      Reply

      Terry

      6 years ago

      Tony, I know exactly why amateurs overwhelmingly miss their target short and 90% of it is miss-strikes on the face. Maybe 10% is they chose the wrong club and didn’t properly adjust for wind/slope. This is just my guess based on my experience.

      Reply

      Regis

      6 years ago

      Every point of your article is spot on. But add one more variable. Most golfers , even regular, avid golfers who practice regularly and take lessons don’t maintain a consistent golf swing. By all means get fit, preferably by a qualified fitter with diagnostic equipment but don’t be shocked when that sweet stick goes South on you a month later. I do my own club work and I’ve gamed almost all of the head/shaft combos available that fit my game A Tour AD shaft that didn’t work on a TMAG head was perfect on a Cobra head.
      And the permutations go on and on. I currently game an XXIO driver for which I was fit and it has had good days and bad days (mostly really good). But I have reached the point where I believe that there is never going to be a new combo that will offer significantly better consistent results.

      Reply

      Nakman7

      6 years ago

      5 yards isn’t worth 400 bucks for me

      Reply

      Ian F

      6 years ago

      The Shaft is King , to get the best out of any club , with ebay buy and try
      if you have an adjustable head “adjust it” , it might take a while at the range but you may just get a seeable benefit for your game and learn what doesn’t work for you. Many golfers don’t make the most of the equipment they have. Marketing will always have a launch to spin those hard earn crust out of or pockets .

      Reply

      Grant Sports Management

      6 years ago

      Tony,
      Well written as always! Is it possible for the subscribers to be notified or get a glimpse of the four drivers or brands that you know/found that are slightly higher? Lol, I’m getting older… And this may be completely off, but for years many good players have used lead tape or some sort of inside the head tuning using the “rat glue method” from the tour van etc. (I realize some readers might not know about the rat glue) but I find it helps tremendously.
      Is it possible to have a correlation between the CT and a way that somebody could (after purchase) weight their club which is completely legal, but helps these findings/ improve their performance? Enhance CT/ Moi?
      Hopefully this question makes sense, just looking for some feedback from somebody that has studied it. ( I’m sure all of MGS has)
      Example: I’m lucky enough to still get some Tour heads from most companies (I don’t get out much anymore due to my job) but after college I played professional golf on various Tours for 9 years. That being said, I do know that the Dr/FW wood heads from the Vans definitely seem to be slightly hotter and have better tolerances (little more zip/never a dud/true loft) For obvious reasons like you alluded to, the ones with the highest % of testing usually get set aside, which is totally understandable. I have personally always liked an extremely heavy head which doesn’t mean more speed, or any performance benefit I know of, other than the fact that that’s just what I prefer, but there have always been certain ways that fitters have applied lead tape to the clubs, or the glue.
      Q: Is there a correlation, and to what benefit? (If you know) I haven’t studied it a whole lot as I just trusted them, but they seem to put it in more effective areas. So, for retail clubs and avg golfer’s-
      Q: Do you think that it’s possible that there could be a way that this would help “tip those scales” say in the average person’s driver performance? I’m a huge believer in getting fit for all of your clubs and maybe that’s truly the only way to maximize performance? If I’m not asking it the right way I apologize, but hopefully you’ll understand what I’m trying to convey or find an answer to. Maybe it could help some loyal readers or followers get the Driver they prefer and Super it up, maybe not. Thank you as always for the great work. I think everybody can easily understand your article, (which should be great for the average player) Maybe my few questions can help, or at least invoke some more interest! I am all for the old-school Tinkers, and growing the game!
      We all know companies like Tour Edge have definitely had some great technology in their metal fairway woods and hybrids. (Almost too hot) although the fairways aren’t necessarily tested it would be pretty cool to see the known limit pushers for Driver heads.

      Best,

      RG

      Reply

      Boyo

      6 years ago

      I have been playing golf for 50 years. Since I obsoleted my old Titleist 975D driver I have been trying new drivers every other year. This year I bought a Ping 400cc LST with their stock 65g shaft. I have gained 15 yards minimum with this driver. I have never seen the likes of this distance improvement in all my years.

      Reply

      Otto

      6 years ago

      I think many are reading this article a few times over before reacting. I had to.
      I think, as is written in this article, that measuring on a monitor is simply a must nowadays. I have an R shaft in my driver and will change that to a lighter one just to see the results. I thank you for the good info.

      Reply

      David Richard

      6 years ago

      Great article and very well written. So I pose a question…is it possible to assign the maxed out numbers to a computer generated setup and come up with the distance numbers for low , mid and higher swing speeds? That way consumers can say…with x-speed I could get a maxed out distance of Y with center strike, minus all outside variables.

      Reply

      KM

      6 years ago

      As long as the heads are hollow they will never produce more distance M x V2 rules that part of equation.

      Reply

      Ben S

      6 years ago

      Great write up. I really liked reading this one because it was informative and eye brow raising. I KNEW TOUR PLAYERS GOT HOTTER HEADS. LOL. The tolerance thing is nice to see where they can make improvements it odd if someone finds a way to get to 250us then they get a warning letter. What the heck man. I guess they perhaps make small gains on purpose because a larger one will raise suspicion or something.

      Thanks again for the story.

      Reply

      Berniez40

      6 years ago

      Another great article! No, distance is by no means maxed out. The best thing I ever did was get a shaft fitting for my off the rack 2016 M2 several months ago. The new M4 never seemed to be as long, so I’m thinking I got a hot M2 Head, and when we actually messed around and put a Mitsu Tensei Red in Senior flex, a shaft upgrad for the new M3 on my M2, we had a distance monster for my old timers’ 87 MPH Swing.
      Heads, shafts, all of that stuff is very very important. I did gain the magic yardage manufacturer’s used to love to claim, but only because I was fitted witha shaft whose kickpoint, torque, and overall load factor match my swing. Nothing wrong with the off the rack Fuji Pro…It served me well, but the mid flight limited my overall carry by roughly 10-12 yards, and when you factor in a hotter rollout, thanks to the newer descent angle, we are talking big numbers. If you want more distance—get fitted. If you need good datat read MGS. Between these two factors, your game should improve exponentially. Mine did.

      Reply

      Alex

      6 years ago

      So it is likely and perhaps to the brands favor to send test units out with high CT(such as the most wanted tests). I see that you guys can check it in house. Very cool, just another variable in the world of golf

      Reply

      Tim J

      6 years ago

      Following up on weight being too far back in the head:

      I would be interested to hear from a club tech on this: It seem logical that as you continue to move the MOI further away from the face, the more important face angle at impact becomes to keeping spin numbers down.

      Imagine two drivers:
      1) one with the CG right up on the face (a la SLDR)
      2) The other driver, (which doesnt exist and would be illegal, but lets imagine it for this thought experiment), the weight is half a foot away from the face, stretched way back.

      Assuming a 0* path through impact, and a face angle of 10* closed, I believe the shot from Driver #2 would spin and cut in the air far more than #1. This is because the CG on Driver #2 will be much further away from the path. It will essentially be moving more outside the path as the face rolls closed.

      I feel this mismatch of CG and path on these Ping drivers. As a player who focuses a lot on using the sweet spot, I find little to no help and only harm in these drivers that have the weight so far back in the head. I am very disappointed to see nearly every manufacturer go that way.

      Reply

      Tim J

      6 years ago

      Its almost as if these high MOI drivers assume that the clubhead will be traveling on a straight line, rather than an arc around a human.

      Reply

      Ron

      6 years ago

      Another variable is head geometry. How does the head shape effect COR across the club face. Not every new year brings improvement as regards a specific manufacturer. With identical shafts for instance , I and others have found the 2017 Epic superior to the newer Rogue.

      Reply

      DL

      6 years ago

      Good article Tony. I’m thinking the next big thing will be when someone goes the graphene route, maybe a blend of carbon fibre and graphene or something like that, and again take that weight and move it around where they want it. The cost will be terribly high, but someone will do it eventually, for the obvious weight savings.

      Reply

      Grant Sports Management

      6 years ago

      Great pick up on the graphene… I think Callaway has done a wonderful job by adding it to their golf balls. I too and wondering when someone will come out or use a small sheet of it to help with weight, and or face strength.

      Reply

      Springbok

      6 years ago

      Who remembers the Callaway C4 driver. I think Chucky 3 sticks used it for like 1 round. Was revolutionary, but just didn’t perform.

      Terry McDowell

      6 years ago

      Callaway didn’t improve the Chrome Soft by adding graphene. No test has shown an improvement, it just raised the cost.

      Sharkhark

      6 years ago

      Great great read!
      It’s pretty hard to involve alot of what could be material like numbers, math, specs etc and not have it be dry… But this was very informative and educational.

      Thank you!

      Reply

      Springbok

      6 years ago

      The difference between a 239 and a 257 CT is 3 yards at 100 MPH CHS is less than 5 yards. 5 Yards. That’s it!!!! take into account roll and bounce on the fairway, and it becomes nothing. It’s a non issue.

      Reply

      Tim J

      6 years ago

      Good Article.

      Regarding MOI. I may be the only one here, but I really dont like the feel of these drivers (Ping) that have the weight 4″ away from the ball. (Yes, I feel that small change in CG, especially at impact). I have no other club in my bag that feels remotely like that. Im not sure having the weight that far back is compatible with the human golf swing. At what point will this high MOI thing harm golfers more than help them?

      On another note, Im one of the few who prefers 45″ 440 cc drivers with more neutral CG. Lower CG is better, but that takes getting used to. I had a cobra driver with a very low CG and I tended to catch it off the bottom as thats where I felt the center of the club.

      I think more can be done in manufacturing to ensure the COR is maxed on every single driver sold.

      Reply

      Ray

      6 years ago

      Tim J, that is an interesting observation. I would say my experience is the opposite. With the new Ping models, I can find the center easier and work the ball better than on older Cobras and TMs, where I tended to be a bit low on the face. Makes no sense, but there you are. Maybe it’s those Turbulators! ;-)

      Reply

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