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No Putts Given Episode 9

BY MyGolfSpy
Jul 18th 2019
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A special mid-week edition of No Putts Given. This week’s topics include:

0:25 – The Open Championship
10:15 – A Shot of the Truth: #FindItCutIt
- More golf ball conversation
A flood of new gear for Open Week
- 40:10 – Mizuno MP-20 Irons
- 50:30– Callaway Epic Forged Irons
- 54:50 – Callaway Epic Flash Star Lineup
- 108:30 – PING Glide 3.0 Wedge
- 110:50 – Titleist U•500 and U•510 Utility Irons
- 112:00 Mizuno T20 Wedge
116:45 – The Last 99Made Major Marker of the Year (Giveaway)

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Our mission is #ConsumerFirst. We are here to help educate and empower golfers. We want you to get the most out of your money, time and performance. That means providing you with equipment reviews you can trust, as well as honest reporting on the latest issues affecting the game today. #PowerToThePlayer

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MyGolfSpy

Driver Ping G30	Hybrids PXG 0317
3/4 IRON PXG 0311XF	5-GW Srixon Z 565
SW PXG 0317	LW PXG 0311
Putter EVNROLL

MyGolfSpy

comments

Join The Discussion

TonyG

5 years ago

Could someone with the proper equipment please test the Snell theory, that a ball that sat in water has become saturated. If that theory is true, at the very least the ball should weigh more. Possibly expand. Perhaps be discolored inside.

lgv

5 years ago

Re: golf ball quality
I mix chemicals together for a living. Our mixing vessels are a bit more than Kitchen Aids and are probably similar to the golf ball goop process. It may not even be a batch process, but rather a continuous process.

I would speculate that the off center core and variations in thickness are of significant importance and the “swirl” not so much. Unless the chemicals forming that inner core are naturally purple, which is highly unlikely, then the purple is derived from some type of dye. The dye can be introduced into one of the ingredients and then used as a QC standard when all the ingredients are combined. In order to get the streaks, the material is probably in a semi-solid state when the colorant or colored material is added. So, there’s a good chance that the streaks have little to no impact on the performance of the golf ball.

I’d have to see the manufacturing process in order to see how each of the issues could be addressed for in-process QC, but they could do a final QC check to ensure that the final ball is “perfectly” round (within spec). Of course, as with everything, you can QC all you want, but if are loose with your specs, everything passes (wink, wing).

Mel Woolf

5 years ago

Ok, so hard balls go farther. Can a 70 yr old guy like me with 90 mph driver speed compress these things to get the performance?(have been playing Snell MTB for several years).
Spin balancing should minimize effect of off center cores. Also why no props for companies that already do this.

mackdaddy

5 years ago

Hey what tool would I need to cut open golf balls? I work at a country club and could cut tons of lost balls.

Jeff

5 years ago

I use a PVC pipe cutter, works like a treat

mackdaddy

5 years ago

Hey what tool would I need to cut open golf balls?

sam

5 years ago

Why is it, and this is general, that tour players use Blades which are standard lofts and still hit it further than any near scratch like my self who always used a model or 2 under the blades, not so much for game improvement but a little forgiveness, in particular my 9 and p wedges. So in my mind I amuse that I should be able to hit as far if not further due to a small difference in loft. same speed same shaft. And the only thing that I bring that down to is the balls they use are different than the ones we can buy.

Hintongolf

5 years ago

Launch angle and ball striking efficiency , tour pros will launch these clubs a lot lower than most amateurs. Trackman has a chart of ball speed, spin and launch angle for the average pro take a look at that and compare. Also don’t believe what the broadcaster are telling you, most the time they are guessing what club they are using. I”ve seen many time where the are saying so and so is using a 7 iron for 205yd tee shot when in fact you can see the sole of the club and can clearly see 5i. Don’t worry about distance worry about accuracy, they make longer clubs for a reason.

TheKiltedGolfer

5 years ago

I hope you invest in a dozen of the brand new and marketed Mizuno golf balls (RB Tour and RB Tour X) now available in the USA to see how their QC is for a dozen off the shelf balls. That should be fun.

Alfred

5 years ago

Awesome work. My question is even if the core is off center, how much is that really impacting performance? Barely noticeable to most average joes or is it really making good shots hook or slice?

Wayne Karp

5 years ago

I am new to MGS and the podcasts. In just a few episodes I have learned SO MUCH about golf balls and clubs. I recently switched from Chrome Soft to Srixon Q tour and there is a remarkable difference in my game already. Straighter, Longer and more accurate. After watching the Test result videos I am going to move to the Z star. My handicap has already come down 2 points in a little over a month. Maybe I can get down below 10 with the info I am gathering from your videos. Keep up the Great Work. I have shared several of the videos with my group of golfers so you should be seeing more followers soon.

JAMES

5 years ago

My dad is 78, short, asian. His Honma driver goes about 180-200, 3 wood 150. Getting a better fit, less expensive driver isn’t going to give him significant increase in distance. He cares more about impressing his friends with how many stars his driver has than distance. Also, he doesn’t need more than 4 irons tops, but carries a full set. It doesn’t matter if his pw is 38 degrees or 46 degrees because neither is going higher than 30 yards and has no stopping power. In his mind, he rather have a lower number stamped on the club than the actual degree. Japan has one of the oldest average populations in the world. 1/3 of the population is over 60 years old. Golf is expensive in Japan/Korea ($200+/round), so assume most golfers are 50+ years old. It’s a totally different golf market. Like my dad, equipment is more about status than performance. It’s hard to understand why someone would want to pay more for an inferior product until you understand the culture. Time for the MGS guys to take a trip to Asia/Japan. The Epic Flash Star is targeted to the older golfers wanting to show off to their friends and compete against Honma. The Epic Flash Star irons don’t make sense though because the target audience IMO doesn’t need that many irons (4-pw).

Duffer E

5 years ago

2 Comments aimed at MGS:

1) For the #FindItCutIt movement, could you perhaps put out there the best method(s) and/or tools to use for cutting golf balls? Not something I’m particularly knowledgeable about.

2) You have made mention in a previous NoPuttsGiven, as well as this one, that manufacturers continually advertise “these clubs are the longest ever” year after year, and then point out that it is mostly because they loftjack their clubs more and more. How about using your influence and starting a movement to have the USGA set a specific loft range (no more than 3-4 degrees) for each club. So, for example, the USGA could state that a 7-iron can vary in loft from 32-35 degrees only, otherwise, the club would be ruled non-conforming. Wouldn’t that fix the loftjacking problem? #NoMoreLoftjacking

TR1PTIK

5 years ago

Pretty sure tools were discussed (at least briefly) in the previous podcast, but all you need to do is grab a pvc pipe cutter from your local hardware store, and go to town.

It’s highly doubtful the USGA will do anything that significantly reduces the ability for golf companies to make $$$.

chrisK

5 years ago

When i was a kid back in the 80’s i’d put a ball in my dad’s vice and cut it in two with a hacksaw. Great Fun! I think it might make a smoother cut than the pvc handtool too

Mark

5 years ago

Get a PVC cutter at harbor freight. was less than 10 bucks. Needs to open 1 5/8″ and works great.

Bob Renegar

5 years ago

Balls inconsistent? Well, well.

Thanks to the MGS guys for raising industry awareness on a long-standing problem. As a golf industry R&D guy for nearly 40 years now, i can confirm these MGS results by telling you that I was hired as a consultant expert with another fellow by one of golf’s major OEMs in the early 2000s to do a similar ball test. That OEM was not a ball manufacturer at that time.

We purchased literally tens of dozens of Tour quality balls (statistically valid sample sizes) from all the major ball OEMS to hit thousands of shots in a robot test under very highly controlled test conditions and spent weeks in the CA desert hitting balls and doing the statistics thereafter.

While we did not cut any balls in half (or attempt to explain the reasons for our test results), we did get the same performance outcomes as the MGS guys. There were occasional shots from one brand in particular that went 20-30 yards offline. The first time this happened, it was so surprising we stopped the test and checked the robot to see if something had failed in the machine-club set up or with the club.

It had not. We retrieved that off line ball (easily found) and hit it again. It went similarly off line in the opposite direction. We found more as the test progressed, and these balls were all being used in pro tours competition.

Noteworthy too, we had very similar final results with our testing as the MGS tests. Bridgestone and Titleist were the clear winners. (We did not test Srixon.) Bridgestone was slightly more consistent in terms of accuracy with our charted dispersion patterns. Distances for both were within one yard of each other.

Since that test, I have played golf with nothing but Bridgestone balls and used them exclusively for my own golf club development and testing needs.

Taken to the golf course, we probably all get caught up with the prospect of a tee ball that goes wildly (and visibly) off line, but this will manifest itself in approach shots as well to a lesser degree. The good news for us recreational golfers is that most Tour quality balls are pretty consistent, and fairways are fairly wide and greens large. So a ball slightly out of balance will still land in play on the fairway and/or still hit the green – albeit not exactly as you intended, but usually producing only minimal scoring consequence (if any).

Who among us plays well enough to know it might have been the ball that caused that missed green or fairway? Very few. And what was the scoring implication – usually nothing.

But put those same out of balance balls on the putting green, and an otherwise perfect putt could easily become a miss or lip-out and one shot higher score! There is the other potentially larger real scoring consequence we commonly overlook.

Thanks again to Adam and the MGS guys for exposing this dirty little secret inside the golf biz. “Tell all” revelations like this will only make the industry better for all of us in the end. This also proves the large investment in R&D and manufacturing made by industry leaders does pay a dividend and sets them apart in performance.

How well do you suppose your golf clubs are design-matched and manufactured? Just asking . . .

Bob Renegar
No longer associated with Renegar Golf in any way for some years now

Michael Mauney

5 years ago

What is the best ball cutter for the money?

Matthew Molina

5 years ago

You can pick up a PVC pipe cutter at your local hardware store or online. I got a 2″ ratcheting pipe cutter at Amazon for a little over $20 and works great for cutting open golf balls.

Joe O’Keefe

5 years ago

I’m curious what the manufacturers do to ensure the highest quality control standard consistency for balls given to tour players. Do they use a high-speed ball spinner, Epsom salts, or a completely different process?

JLP

5 years ago

After watching this issue, I got a Chrome Soft from last year, A ERC that I had in my bag, and a Chrome Soft X that I have been playing and cut them open, I found nothing wrong with the balls. Center core was centered and the fillings were OK. I can post the pictures of these cut open balls if someone what to see to confirm my findings.
So the question is was the one show in this session an odd one. Wondering if you cut more of the Chrome Soft from the box you used for the testing and what you might find.

Bjohns

5 years ago

Very quickly becoming can’t miss listening for me.

Bryan H

5 years ago

I think really in the test you should’ve did test where there were good balls, like redid the chrome soft because obviously the snell mtb-x is not 18 yds longer on driver than chrome soft and that’s been proven by other people on youtube channels like TXG where there testing is as good as anybody , they do more idvidual than all as a group , but still accurate, but like what you guys do regardless

TR1PTIK

5 years ago

You should spend some time learning about the MGS testing protocols. They are far superior to a couple guys hitting a handful of shots on GC Quad indoors. Also, pre-selecting golf balls prior to testing would defeat the purpose. The point is to inform golfers who makes a good golf ball, meaning good performance and good QUALITY.

Walter

5 years ago

Maybe Callaway should have put their money into building a good ball instead of having a fancy cover, which I think is horrible. Never liked Callaway balls period!

Jerry

5 years ago

Not sure how I got on your mailing list, but sure glad I did. Honest, empirical reasoning, and recommendations are excellent. The golf ball testing has been eye opening to say the least. Of course you expect all balls in a case to be the same…evidence they’re not should make ball makers very concerned and nervous! At $3-5/ball any consumer should expect uniformity as close to identical as manufacturing processes and QC procedures can assure. It made me change which balls I’ll even consider buying! Love the podcast and You Tube videos…keep it up.

Lou

5 years ago

Your golf ball cutting is informative but it’s it’s being beaten like a dead horse without naming names. We want to know who makes great balls and who makes less than great balls by model. Without naming names and models you turn an interesting subject into an all day affair just repeating and repeating and repeating, especially, by the guy in the middle. He just overwhelms and dominates every conversation. I judge he’s the expert on everything. On another subject, I think you’d be taken more seriously if your staff looked more professional and weren’t wearing ball caps (on backwards by the middle guy) and slouched in his chair (the guy on the right). Also, the fellow in the middle doesn’t need to use a bunch of salty cuss words every time he wants to make his point. I like the concept of “No Putts Given” but you need to tighten it up and become a professional act.

MyGolfSpy

5 years ago

FYI: It’s called #NoPuttsGiven for a reason.

Bryan H

5 years ago

cant argue that, no need to talk like a sailor doesn’t make you look very good doing so

Ron

5 years ago

Have to agree here about tightening up the presentation if you are going Vlog. I love your content and work in general but polishing up the production would make this show even more pleasurable to watch. I’m less concerned with the “salty” language (22 yr Army Vet) than having to continue to watch Sam scratch himself.

Brandon Sullivan

5 years ago

I have a Callaway Chrome Soft ball that is all messed up. It’s perfectly round but it rolls like a trick ball and I can’t imagine ever hitting it with a club because it honestly would be so unpredictable. It’s also much heavier than a normal golf ball as well. I haven’t cut it open because I love having people try to make a putt with it which is nearly impossible.

Jeff

5 years ago

Please video it rolling and tag MGS in it on social media if you’re on any platforms, would be really interesting to see. Would love to see it weighed against another Chrome Soft for comparison, and would love even more to see it cut open to figure out what the heck went wrong, but I definitely understand the novelty of it.

TR1PTIK

5 years ago

Nice to hear you guys give some perspective from the other side of this issue and how you get what you pay for in terms of quality. I’ve spent the last decade of my life working in manufacturing and it’s never as easy as it seems. That said, there are always ways to improve, but it starts with HAVING A DESIRE TO IMPROVE. It’s clear that some companies have more desire than others.

Hintongolf

5 years ago

Could one make the assumption that if they wanted to play a tour level ball they would probably be safer playing with a 3 piece instead of 4 or 5 piece. Looking at most cut 4 and 5 piece balls the inner most core is much smaller than those of 3 piece balls. Having a smaller core would leave more room for error for absolute center placement, with the 3 pc balls its the core mantle and cover with the mantle and covers being very thin. I would like to see research of 3pc vs 4/5pc balls and variance of shot dispersion and see if how many “outliers” there are for each ball and cut those and see if its a manufacturing error like we are seeing , i’m sure there is something out there already. Just thinking out loud.

chrisK

5 years ago

I think that’s an interesting point, i’d like to see it too. For some reason they’re only testing the top-end balls though (at least, the balls that are assumed to be the top quality balls, anyway).

Hintongolf

5 years ago

I would imagine all the info needed is in their recent ball study. Someone would just have to extract it. I’ve been playing Z Star XV’s and i noticed a trend vs the Z Star in the info given. The Z Star has a much smaller shot dispersion than that of the XV with the driver(154 with z star and 901 with xv) also the XV being 9yds further away from center. As for the 7 iron and wedge play goes they are very similar other than an outlier of z star having half the shot area of the XV with the wedge…HUGE!! The only benefit i see playing the XV is driver distance I will gladly give up 2 mph ball speed to have much tighter shot area closer to the middle of the fairway.(Numbers were taken from the 115MPH swing speed category) Now was this an anomaly or due to one being a 3pc and the other a 4pc? With Srixon’s parent company being a Japanese rubber company(sumitomo rubber) i would imagine anything they are releasing to the public would be the upmost quality product.

MrHogan

5 years ago

This is why I love MGS. Your initiative and drive to investigate everything golf with the emphasis of putting the consumer first is amazing and should be at the very least a huge wake up call to the golf equipment industry.

The golf ball manufacturing industry should be very nervous after seeing these results and I suspect everyone’s boardroom is discussing this topic right now. I can see multiple Six Sigma projects coming out of this with their main focus on process flow and SOP’s. I also predict people will loose their jobs after this shit storm because this will affect their bottom line and sales. And let’s not forget reputation and loss of consumer confidence.

Unbelievable great work you guys. The golf world owes everyone at MGS a huge thank you.

B.Boston

5 years ago

Nice work guys. I really enjoy these podcasts, tons of info in a digestible manner.
Keep it up!

Mark Gervais

5 years ago

I remember about 15 years ago the golf gadget of the year was a device that you placed your ball in and it spun the ball and found its center of gravity and then you marked it to help line up putts. Maybe time for something similar was invented to help us understand what type of ball we are hitting.

Max Parris

5 years ago

I have tested golf balls for a number of years using salt and water. I have found that many golf balls are out of balance. Some come back to the top quickly and others take a little more time. Just recently I ran a test using Titleist prov1 and prov1x with Bridgestone Br that just came out. All the Titleist were out of balance.
The Bridgestone balls were in balance using the salt and water. I have cut open many golf balls and have found core off center. The cores also have the swirl pattern. I follow you guys a lot and have learned more about the game of golf watching your pod cast. Keep up the great work.
Max
Max
Max

Walter

5 years ago

I have 3 sleeves of an older but new in the sleeve ProV1X. I did the Epsom water test and of the first 2 sleeves every ball was heavy one side. The mark would return to the same position quicker than any ball I had tested. I didn’t bother to test the 3rd sleeve. Can we assume that the newer ProV’s are any different.

tscdave

5 years ago

Shocking. And I thought it was always me! Looks like even putting would be affected

GMD

5 years ago

Great research. Thanks for the feedback..

Arnold W Augustin

5 years ago

The ball information bothers me a lot.

But we need to know what manufacturing error is average for each manufacturer in order to determine how bad this is?

Tolerances are critical to performance (some more than others)

Philip Allen

5 years ago

1st day played 2 chrome softs. They flew like a dead pigeon! Next day got 2 more from same dozen and they played great. Thought it was all me till this video. May cut them open.

Walter McLellan

5 years ago

I understand the issues with quality control across many manufacturers. What concerns me more is which companies are ripping us off by selling the same ball under different labels at different price points. Thank you.

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No Putts Given Episode 9

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comments

TonyG

lgv

Mel Woolf

mackdaddy

Jeff

mackdaddy

sam

Hintongolf

TheKiltedGolfer

Alfred

Wayne Karp

JAMES

Duffer E

TR1PTIK

chrisK

Mark

Bob Renegar

Michael Mauney

Matthew Molina

Joe O’Keefe

JLP

Bjohns

Bryan H

TR1PTIK

Walter

Jerry

Lou

MyGolfSpy

Bryan H

Ron

Brandon Sullivan

Jeff

TR1PTIK

Hintongolf

chrisK

Hintongolf

MrHogan

B.Boston

Mark Gervais

Max Parris

Walter

tscdave

GMD

Arnold W Augustin

Philip Allen

Walter McLellan

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