RESULTS: The MyGolfSpy Distance Survey (Does the Ball Go Too Far?)
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RESULTS: The MyGolfSpy Distance Survey (Does the Ball Go Too Far?)

RESULTS: The MyGolfSpy Distance Survey (Does the Ball Go Too Far?)

In September, the USGA invited golfers to participate in a distance survey. While, by some measure, the survey was wide-ranging, its ultimate purpose was to solicit feedback about how distance, and more specifically, the perceived distance problem is (adversely) affecting the game. As we said at the time, we thought there were issues with the survey. It was unnecessarily long and we felt that many of the questions were worded in a way that suggested they were designed to solicit a specific response.

Distance is a problem, take this survey so we can prove it – that was our interpretation. Transparency has never been a hallmark of how the USGA operates, and so we also thought there was a better than good chance that golfers would never see the results. We don’t think that’s right considering any decision the USGA makes will impact every last one of us. There’s a risk that a justification for any change might be cherry-picked from a larger dataset that suggests that a rollback isn’t needed, or that it’s definitely not wanted.

Long story short, we decided to publish our own survey. We trimmed some of the fat. We posted some questions verbatim, and we added some of our own questions to hopefully cut right to the heart of what it is we’re talking about.

As promised, we’re sharing the complete results with you. The charts shown below reflect the answers of the 3305 golfers who completed the survey.

DISTANCE SURVEY RESULTS

Before we get into the meat of the survey, let’s briefly explore the demographics so we can understand a bit more about the golfers who participated in our version of the survey.

Not much in the way of surprising jumps out from the demographic data. The USGA index results mostly fall on a bell curve, though it’s certainly interesting that nearly 9% of those who took the survey don’t maintain a handicap. That’s likely significantly lower than it is for the general population of golfers. Theoretically, this is a group that’s likely unaware of the distance discussion and wouldn’t much care what the USGA decides to do.

Rounds played responses suggest the majority of our survey takers would be considered avid golfers. The level of play results suggests most are typical/average golfers, though we do have some elite amateurs and possibly tour pros in the mix.

I suppose we can’t really talk about distance until we have some understanding of how far golfers are hitting the ball – or at least how far golfers think they hit the ball.

The majority of our readers are in the 225-275 range. We know that average golfers tend to overestimate their distance, so it’s reasonable to surmise that the average golfer hits it upwards of 50-yards shorter than the average PGA Tour Pro. Driving Distance stats from PGATour.com suggest that the Tour driving average is somewhere in the 295-300 yard ballpark. The ripple in the data is that we can’t be certain that all of those shots from the tour were actually hit with a driver. It’s possible, even likely that there’s an even greater discrepancy when the tee shot is hit with the driver.

Again, no surprises here. Just over 66% of respondents would like to hit the ball farther. Less than 1% claim that they hit it too far. Regardless of whether that’s a legitimate problem or bogus data, it’s perhaps the best illustration of the absurdity of the idea that distance needs to be rolled back across the board. If distance is a problem, it’s a problem for less than 1% of golfers, which is to say, it isn’t a problem.

This question was meant to be a little tongue in cheek. More than 9% of golfers believe some of their playing partners hit the ball too far. Distance isn’t a problem for me, but what is a problem is that my buddies are out-driving me. Let’s rollback the guys who are taking our money.

This was one of the questions we took directly from the USGA survey. We hadn’t heard anything about the USGA looking at MOI as part of the problem (though MOI is only part of the forgiveness equation). It’s possible this question was designed to give some insight into whether or not a rollback of the MOI rule could serve as a means to curb distance. The current limit on MOI is 5900 from heel to toe. While some manufacturers are slowly creeping towards the limit, nobody is there yet. If the USGA set a new limit of 5500 or so, it wouldn’t have much of an impact on existing equipment (the G400 MAX would be in trouble). Even dropping to 5000 wouldn’t be a massive hit for average golfers, but it would certainly curb any MOI-driven innovation/performance improvements.

Within the bigger picture, an MOI-based approach doesn’t make much sense. While tour players do miss the sweet spot, it’s certainly not to the degree that amateurs do. Higher MOI is one of those advances which benefits average golfers more than pros, so rolling it back would likely also negatively impact average golfers more than professionals.

Again, this one came directly from the original USGA survey. Increasing course length and the associated higher land acquisition and maintenance costs is a big concern for the USGA. The results provide an indication of the average course length, which combined with data from the past, could provide insight into whether or not golfers are playing longer courses than they did in decades past. We know that new courses are being built longer than ever, but with only 3.76% of golfers playing courses more than 7000 yards, there doesn’t seem to be much evidence to suggest that courses in the 6000-6500 range are being obsoleted due to increased distance.

What we don’t know is what clubs are golfers typically hitting into greens compared to the past, but the data suggests that most golfers likely still have some room to move back if necessary.

What strikes me as bizarre, or even slightly hypocritical about this entire processes is that, not long ago, the USGA was telling golfers to move forward and play from the proper tees. The idea was that playing a course too long for your ability level contributes to slow play. Now it’s suggesting there’s a distance problem that’s on the verge of ruining the game. We’re talking about updating equipment rules to effectively lengthen courses.

Yesterday we were told to move forward, tomorrow the USGA wants to effectively move us back. Which is it?

This above chart and the one below were part of the same question. We split them up to make them a bit more readable. With the exception of the last statement (The current equipment rules are just fine), the statements were taken directly from the original USGA Survey.

From this first set, it doesn’t appear that golfers are overly concerned that technology is ruining the spirit of the game. The overwhelming majority either agree or strongly agree with the statement that technology has not taken away from the spirit of the game. Issues around regulation in golf are more balanced, though more golfers feel there is already too much.

The statement about too much attention being paid to how far a player drives is ambiguous and open to interpretation. Is it too much attention is being paid, so we should do something about it, or is it too much attention is being paid but golfers (and the USGA) shouldn’t worry about it? Regardless, a majority of respondents believe golf is a great sport to watch on TV. Presumably, longer drives haven’t hurt that perception.

There’s nothing ground-breaking in the first pair of responses. Most think golf takes too long to play, and the highest percentage of survey takers believe it’s expensive. Nothing new here, we play golf because we love it, not because it’s expeditious or comparably affordable. Shorter courses might shave a few minutes off a round, but it’s unlikely we’ll see rates drop significantly. It’s not a game where we typically pay by the yard.

Perhaps worrisome given the USGA’s staunch stance against bifurcation (two sets of rules), a majority of respondents agree that recreational golf and elite amateur/professional golf are effectively two different sports.

The most evenly distributed response was to the statement that golf is more about accuracy than distance. I suspect if we asked if golf were about both accuracy and distance, we’d find significant agreement.

The last two graphs are telling. An overwhelming majority believe that technology has made the game more enjoyable, and most believe the current equipment rules are just fine. Fundamentally, I believe this is why a rollback of distance will have far greater consequences than the anchoring ban or the change to the groove rule. Long and belly putters weren’t used by any significant percentage of golfers at any level, and most average golfers didn’t generate tour-level spin with the old grooves anyway. Besides, manufacturers have figured out how to give most of that spin back.

Rolling back distance, however, that affects everyone in a quantifiable way. Many say they will find the game less enjoyable, and say they would play less, or quit entirely because of it. If one of the core tenants of the USGA’s mission is to grow the game, a rollback will run contrary to it.

Given that the USGA is responsible for the rules, I thought it might be worth finding out what our readers think about the organization and its current activities.

The balance of responses to the first statement should be concerning. More than 30% of survey takers don’t believe the USGA has the best interests of the game at heart. It’s roughly the same number that believes it does. 50/50 with plenty more on the fence isn’t a great split for an organization which, in principle anyway, should represent all golfers.

An overwhelming majority believe the USGA is out of touch with the average golfer. I’d certainly put myself in this group. Elite golfers are an absolute minuscule percentage of the golfing population, and yet, that’s the group the USGA is constantly focused on regulating at the expense of the rest of us.

Again, no surprise here. An overwhelming majority believe the USGA should make a bigger effort at simplifying the rules. To its credit, the 2019 rule changes are a hell of a good start. I love what’s coming in January.

While neither agree nor disagree is the majority, those who a expressed an opinion overwhelmingly support the notion that the USGA is not a forward-thinking organization. There’s plenty of evidence to support that opinion. If, for example, the USGA had anticipated that professional golfers would get bigger, faster, and stronger (as they have in every sport), perhaps it would have set lower limits a decade or more ago. The USGA has consistently shown itself to be habitually reactionary by nature, and ultimately, that’s why we’re having this conversation.

This is another one we added to gauge your feelings about existing and recently updated rules.

With respect to anchoring, we find a relative balance, though more of you disagree than agree with the rule. The balance is similar to what we find with the groove rule, though a greater percentage of you appear to ride the fence on that one.

Support for rolling back driver CT or introducing new regulation for the golf ball is absolutely abysmal. A significant majority of our respondents aren’t interested in either. That likely speaks to why the majority also believes that the USGA cherry-picks data to support predetermined outcomes.

Given that we’re talking about reducing distance, it comes as no surprise that most believe that any change the USGA makes will adversely impact the majority of golfers. Again, if distance is a problem, it’s only a problem for a minute percentage of golfers (pros and elite amateurs). I suspect that’s why most don’t believe that changing current rules is a necessary step to preserving the game.

The responses to this question provide some small degree of support for the notion that golfers are hitting the ball farther (which obviously isn’t the same as too far).

36.52% say the drive it a little longer, while 7.78% say the drive it much longer. That’s still less than 50%. Everyone else either drives it the same, or shorter. I suspect that speaks to an aging population of core golfers.

Perhaps we should have filtered this one based on gains or losses in distance. Hindsight. Regardless, change in playing skill was the most popular choice for why distance has changed. It makes sense; either you got better or you got worse. Fitness levels and the effect of age on range of motion were also popular choices. It’s a safe assumption that nobody got younger, so we’re almost certainly talking about decreased range of motion. It’s certainly possible that average golfers have increased their fitness levels – and certainly, that’s happening at the elite level, but most of us lose fitness as we age.

The headline is that most golfers don’t believe that courses are being made obsolete in significant numbers. For those who answered yes, I’m curious to know if you’re concerned about courses you play, or courses you see on TV. Are courses being made obsolete for everyone, or is it just a problem for classic tour venues?

Nearly a clean 1/3 – 2/3 split. A majority believes that distance isn’t a problem at the elite level, while the other third believes it is. Herein lies the challenge for the USGA. If we accept that distance is a problem on tour, or at least concede that we don’t care either way as long as any new regulations don’t impact our equipment, how does the USGA resolve it without buggering it for the rest of us? That’s exactly why we added the next question.

If there is a distance problem, most of us would agree the scale of the problem is limited, so why is it the USGA’s problem to solve? Nearly 60% believe that the solution should fall on the Professional Tours. It’s always struck me as odd that the PGA Tour and others defer to the USGA to regulate the professional game. With the USGA at the controls, the only viable choices are bifurcation (which it doesn’t appear to see as viable) or imposing unnecessary and performance diminishing regulations on amateurs to fix a perceived problem at the most elite levels. Perhaps its time for other organizations to step in and say, “We got this.”

This one, I think cuts to the heart of everything in the distance debate.

Do amateur/recreational golfers have a distance problem?

No. And that should be the end of this ridiculous discussion.

And yet, we must indulge the debate further.

It’s at least interesting that the ball is seen as a more significant factor than clubs. The USGA’s regulations on balls are much tighter, much more absolute than they are for drivers. Nobody is making a longer ball without compromising in areas where pros won’t compromise (greenside spin). IF distance has suddenly emerged as a problem on tour (or anywhere else), it’s not because of the ball. We’re only talking about it because it’s the easiest fix.

There’s some support for the notion that course setup is contributing to distance, but the biggest spikes we see suggest most believe increased distance is coming from improved fitness, better coaching, and a significantly greater understanding of performance. The reality is that the modern golfer is an athlete. Some of these guys look like they could play in the NFL or fight in the UFC. Again, bigger, faster, stronger. Since the USGA can’t force professional golfers to eat more doughnuts and it can’t take away their launch monitors and coaches, it’s looking to the equipment, not because it makes sense for the majority of golfers, but because it’s apparently the only solution it can think of.

I suspect this question was designed to support the notion that golfers are obsessed with distance and that it plays too big a role in the purchasing decision. Frankly, I think nearly 10% of you are stretching the truth. Distance is always in the conversation. Even if it’s not at the top of our list of considerations, there is a theoretical point where a club is too short for consideration, but you don’t find many of those anymore. You can thank the current rules for that.

We’ve asked about non-conforming clubs before, but this is the first time that we’ve had any significant number of you tell us that you would play a non-conforming club, or even think about it. To me, this suggests that most of us accept the current regulations, but if new rules rob of us of distance, we’re going to be open to playing gear that helps us get it back, even if it’s against the USGA rules.

When asked the same question about the ball, the results are nearly the same. A slightly higher percentage of you would be more open to playing a non-conforming ball than a non-conforming driver. Why is that?

In this question, we assume the worst case scenario. If the USGA rolls back distance, how much of a loss are you willing to eat. The results suggest that 10% is the upper limit, though it’s worth noting that more than 1/3 of you responded that no amount of loss is acceptable. I’m with you. I don’t hit the ball too far. Nobody I know hits the ball too far. Again, I ask, why is this even a conversation?

This was a curious set of statements from the USGA. Some are just ambiguous enough, where one could probably make whatever argument one would like to make regardless of the actual answers.

Is technology good, or do the responses suggest golfers have become too reliant on it? Must something be done? Most don’t think so.

Is distance only a problem for elite players? The overwhelming majority think it is.

Does distance increase costs? If the solution is longer courses, probably. If the solution is narrower fairways and longer rough, then no.

No surprise, yes distance makes the game more fun. We all enjoy hitting the ball far.

The last one is my favorite because I suspect the subtest is that diminishes the need for accuracy and somehow isn’t in line with the spirit of the game. The responses are split almost evenly between degrees of agreement and disagreement, but let’s try it the other way.

How much do you agree with this statement?: Being able to hit shots more accurately can make up for a lack of distance.

It seems to me that in either case strength in one area can mitigate a weakness in the other, but ultimately you may need a bit of both to shoot a low score.

When it comes to equipment and technology, the responses suggest a majority believe that nothing should be done at any level. When the statements pertain to golf courses, the majority opinion is that changes need only be made for elite golfers.

I’ll admit it, this one is a bit of a dog whistle, but we added with the hope it would cause you to think about more deeply about the consequences of taking some percentage of distance away from recreational golfers. Decisions like that don’t exist in a vacuum. Many, likely a majority of courses, don’t have the necessary teeing grounds to properly balance any distance loss. Ideally, if we’re hitting driver, 7-iron now, we’d eat whatever rollback the USGA puts in front of us, and simply move forward to a teebox that allows us to continue to play driver, 7-iron, or at least something close to it. But what happens when that box doesn’t exist?

Do we move up and hit driver, wedge all day? That’s not fun.

Do we effectively lengthen the course and hit driver, 5-iron? For many courses, that amounts to playing the tips with the current boxes. Is that what we want? Wasn’t there an entire campaign built around the idea that we need to play the proper tees and speed up play?

Where do golfers already playing the most-forward tees go?

The reality is that for all the talk of increased distances, most of us aren’t hitting it much farther on the courses we play every day. For courses to play as they were designed, new boxes will almost certainly need to be built. Who pays for that?

One way or another it’s the golfer.

We asked what should be done to solve the distance problem. We gave you the option to say do nothing (because there is no distance problem), and more than 45% of you chose to do so.

More than 31% came out in favor of bifurcation, while just over 30% suggest the answer lies in agronomy, i.e., grow the damn grass.

There’s significantly more support for rolling back the ball than there is for rolling back the driver (Not sure why…either way we lose distance), while less than 4% favor making courses longer.

We don’t know what the USGA is going to do, but generally, where there’s smoke, there’s fire, so I believe it’s going to do something. You’d hope it will give consideration to what average golfers think, but the USGA has cultivated a reputation for not listening to its constituents.

The results to our survey, which closely mirrors its own, strongly suggest that average golfers, which make up the overwhelming majority of the golfing population, aren’t in favor of any type of rollback.

You Had Your Say

Finally, we asked you if there was anything you’d like to say to the USGA.

The overwhelming majority said things like “leave it alone”, or “do it for the pros only”.  The consensus reflects the idea that distance is exclusively a professional problem. Comments suggested tremendous support for bifurcation, and there were also indications that rolling back distance could cause some to play less. “Reduce distance and I reduce play”, another saying “Do it and you will lose golfers in droves.”

What’s absolutely clear based on the totality of survey responses is that support for a rollback among avid golfers, which the equipment industry depends on for equipment sales, is all but none existent. To implement a rollback of any kind (short of some form of bifurcation), would effectively alienate the most important segment of the golfing population.

Let me say this again. An overwhelming majority of core golfers – the heart of the USGA’s constituency – do not support any sort of rollback.

Will the USGA listen? I’m not optimistic.

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Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony is the Editor of MyGolfSpy where his job is to bring fresh and innovative content to the site. In addition to his editorial responsibilities, he was instrumental in developing MyGolfSpy's data-driven testing methodologies and continues to sift through our data to find the insights that can help improve your game. Tony believes that golfers deserve to know what's real and what's not, and that means MyGolfSpy's equipment coverage must extend beyond the so-called facts as dictated by the same companies that created them. Most of all Tony believes in performance over hype and #PowerToThePlayer.

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey





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      Franz

      5 years ago

      There’s no problem with distance. Or with anything. There’s a problem with old guys (Gary P., Jack N., I’m looking your way) having too much power and some difficulty coming to grips with the idea that young players might be, overall, better than they were, and player lower scores than they did.
      Golf is the only sport I know where we think of changing rules, equipment and whatnot to keep performances where they were 40 years ago. Other sports embrace that increase in performances, and take pride in it. Track and field guys are happy to see the world records be beaten, they don’t lament in the press that “It’s disgraceful that the record on the Old Course should be less than 65…” Plus, if golf becomes “too easy” for touring pros, make it more difficult where is really matters: faster and more rolly greens, thicker rough, narrower fairways, better positioned bunkers and trees…

      Reply

      Kevin

      5 years ago

      Fantastic write up Tony; and nobody has any doubt about your personal view on this topic (with which I agree). No need to repeat the great input and ideas above (which the USGA should read). I’ll just add that the focus on driving distance seems ridiculously narrow minded. The pros hit EVERY club much longer than I do. They hit 4 iron as far as I hit driver and their wedges fly twice what I hit. And they’re generally twice as accurate. But isn’t that the point of being “pro?” If their play was reduced to my level they’d no longer be pros. Their time and effort on the practice range should be rewarded; and not with wimpier equipment. I’ll never play at an elite level but I still enjoy the game. It’s thrilling to make a long drive, a close chip or tough putt. How the pros, or my friends, play in no way diminishes that thrill. Watching pro highlights of great shots is motivating. Watching their blooper compilations warms my heart knowing they’re human too. USGA: don’t interfere with us enjoying the game – both watching the pro level and playing the am level.

      Reply

      Eduardo Martinez

      5 years ago

      Why the numbers in the last chart do not add up?

      Reply

      Tony Covey

      5 years ago

      The format of the last question was akin to ‘select all that apply’, so respondents were able to select multiple answers. The percentages reflect the frequency of selection. A total above 100% is the expected result.

      Reply

      Caroline

      5 years ago

      I do not think 95 percent of amateurs (for sure women over 45) hit drivers anywhere near the way LPGA women do, what i mean is distance is not always what it seems (for PGA players for sure) we amateurs on a 325 par four hit a good 175 drive down the middle and have 150 to the center of the green, pros hit a 300 yard drive on a 470 par 4 and have 140 or less to the center of the green. It is knowing how to shorten the holes with the ability to hit the ball where you need to that makes the Pros so long…..am I right? I watched one of the guys hit what they said was a 325 yard drive on a 565 yard par 5…his next shot was 195 to a close to center pin???? It is not just distance the players are just better today.

      Reply

      THOMAS

      5 years ago

      As I know in basketball the hoop is at height 10 feet and the inner diameter has not changed. EVER High School – College – Elite Pros all the same. Todays players taller more athelic – Ball still same

      Reply

      shortside

      5 years ago

      Without a doubt. Today’s athletes are superior in every sport. But they’ve all had a plethora of rules changes. Many directly related to the prowess of the “modern” athlete.

      The increased severity of injuries in contact sports speaks for itself. Now they’re 300 lbs and fast as opposed to 300 lbs and fat. The days of a RB scrambling around the backfield looking for a lane are over. They get caught.

      That size and conditioning has certainly crossed over to golf. Brooks Koepka anyone? Of course these mind blowing swing speeds are directly related to a lot of the injuries we’re seeing. It’ll be interesting to see how many of them can still play in their 50’s. Time will tell.

      Reply

      Brian

      5 years ago

      First – There is no distance problem other than I’d like to have more of it.

      2nd – No mystery why most people would prefer to roll back the ball vs roll back the driver. Balls are cheaper. Much easier to swallow having to buy a new dozen balls than a new $500 driver.

      Reply

      Henry Richard

      5 years ago

      IMO the equipment and golf ball options are fine. At the age of 70 I would like to see more “play it forward” tee box options instead of just the typical blue/white/red.

      Reply

      Keith Irvine

      5 years ago

      Best article I’ve seen on this site. It’s a shame the USGA doesn’t care what we think or what the facts show. They can’t even get the 2019 new rules right, like dropping from knee height…..what a joke. They will only be confused by facts, so good luck with convincing them. Too much power corrupts…..

      Reply

      Dave Sanguinetti

      5 years ago

      The USGA(and primarily Mike Davis) has already made up it’s collective intractable minds( mind or lack thereof in Davis’s case) on the distance issue. As with anchoring, no evidence or opinions to the contrary, will sway them! If they roll back the ball then I believe that the vast majority of recreational golfers should think of starting an opposing organization

      Reply

      JimmyTim

      5 years ago

      I’m thinking of switching to croquet!

      Reply

      keith irvine

      5 years ago

      Haha…..Rumour has it the USGA is considering rolling back the Croquet Ball specifications……

      Reply

      SV

      5 years ago

      At nearly 70 years old I hit the ball farther off the tee (based on GameGolf) and 2 clubs less from 150 yards than I did in my 30s. It is not because I am in better shape. My swing is more efficient, but it comes from ball and club technology, including stronger iron lofts.
      The problem with the distance perception is the added costs. New courses being built are longer so they can claim they are “championship”. 99% of the new courses built over the last number of years have no need to be any longer than 6700 yards, if that. Longer courses cost more to build and maintain, but as the survey shows, the majority of golfers play tees less than 6500 yards.

      Reply

      Sandy

      5 years ago

      I couldn’t disagree with you more, Sam. I am 78 years old, have been playing golf for 65 years, am single digit handicap, and am in good health and good physical condition.
      When I was 18 years old and playing in a college tournament, I hit it 302 yards with a balata ball and a persimmon driver in a long drive contest (not wind aided). Thirty years ago, I could still hit it 270. Today, I struggle to hit it much further than 205. The swing speed just isn’t there anymore and I think over the next eight years you will see what I mean.
      As far as I am concerned, the ball can’t go far enough to suit me. But Mike Davis is a pompous as**ole who thinks he knows what’s best for golfers, no matter what they may, themselves, think. The whole questionnaire and so called input period is a PR ploy and is meaningless. He is hell bent on going forward with this no matter what anyone thinks. Just lo no further than the idiotic anchoring ban to see how much “input “ matters.
      I would be surprised if more than just a couple percent of golfers think the ball is going too far for them and that it is ruining the game! Let him bifurcate the rules for the pros if he wants, all that will do is roll back some of the fun of watching them. But, leave us ordinary golfers the hell alone!

      Reply

      Sandy

      5 years ago

      Sorry, obviously this reply was meant for SV.

      Reply

      Rfiltr

      5 years ago

      Ok one Question what should a beer league be hitting in to the green on a average game. Ie 7 iron or a 3 iron That is my big question then everyone should be hitting of those tees that would make the game more fun and also speed up the game.

      Reply

      Chris

      5 years ago

      I will subject my opinion comes from my current level of play. I’m a 2 handicap, am 37 years old, have been playing for 30+ years and my average drive is 285-290yds. In my opinion the “distance debate” has never been a “debate” for amateurs, just as your research indicates. You will never hear an amateur say “I hit the ball too far.” So why there would even be questions directed at whether or not amateurs think they hit the ball too far, baffles me. The distance debate is, or should be, focused on the Pros. There has been a plethora of technology advancements in the past 30 years (clubs, balls, etc), in addition to the firm fairways, which all seem to increase distance. Many Touring Pros are also increasing their focus on fitness/strength/health. Put all this together and you have a magic potion to murder the golf ball. I will admit I LOVE bombing a long drive, and I’d really like to be able to average 315+ off the tee like some of the tour pros. However, I hate seeing PGA tournaments where the winning score is -23 under par and these guys are overpowering golf courses – going driver/wedge all day long. How much fun is that to watch? It’s not. And conversely I absolutely love seeing tournaments like the US Open when the winning score is only -2 or -3 under par. So do I think there need to be some changes? Absolutely! I don’t know what those changes should be but I tend to lean more in the direction of course setup. Make the courses (for Pros) more challenging. They can leave technology where it is (as boring as that sounds) and focus on making what we already have, more challenging. On a side note – (would love to see research on it) – but I would be willing to bet that handicaps of 15 and lower make up a large majority of the $$ spent at golf courses. You can talk about representing the masses but if they are the ones paying the $…. you do the math.

      Reply

      Sam

      5 years ago

      Great survey and thanks for the effort, Tony!
      I think there are other interesting points in this survey which unfortunately reflect the changes in society: Vanity and show is much more important than values and sportsmanship! According to the survey, a big crowd is ready to use nonconforming balls and clubs to keep their level of play and handicap if distances would be increased. What a pathetic and ridiculous attitude by so called „honest (golf) sportsman“! They all claim that „It’s the Indian and not the arrow“, but when the going (would) get tough they’d be ready to use every illigit trick to keep their score. They point to the Pros saying „ there’s the distance problem“ while the truth is that they all improved their scores over the last 20 years thanks to better equipment, allowing them to reach the greens in 2 or 3 strokes playing shorter and shorter irons. Lower roughs, harder and wider fairways have certainly helped the average hacker over the past 10 years.
      When do people realize that developing good technical skills is actually great fun and rewarding. What is more rewarding: hitting good balls because of the work you put in, because your swing is in a good place or because of a forgiving club which lets the ball fade off less? Come on guys, all you tough sluggers out there: when the going gets tough you start crying „please not me – it’ just the pros, let me keep my clubs (or I use non-conforms)“! Where is your the spirit of challenges, why don’t you try to learn to hit a 2,3 or 4 iron?
      Fewer and fewer want to work to develop a good swing. Fewer and fewer are ready to work hard at the driving range for lower scores. They just want to sit at the clubhouse and brag about their scores which supposedly only come from great swings and not from the improved equipment. We love to kid ourselves, knowingly try to fool our audience just to „shine“ on.
      Years ago you had to hit a solid 4 or 5 iron or 5 wood to reach the green, then we started to use hybrids and know often a7 or 8 is enough. Good skills with long irons were required. Now that is completely gone. Compare that to the old masters who played persimon drivers and blades which looked like a knife. Give those clubs to Dustin, Rory and the other guys and let’s count the scores. It would be fun.
      While I do believe that some equipment improvement makes sense there is also the danger that parts of the spirit of the game are lost. We should try to preserve it. It’s worth it. It seems that sometimes the old days were really better.

      Reply

      TR1PTIK

      5 years ago

      I’m all about taking on new challenges, but I’m also for keeping the game fun for recreational golfers. I would not belittle anyone who wants to keep the game fun and enjoyable. At the end of the day, that’s what makes this move by the USGA so completely asinine. How could they ever expect to increase participation when they repeatedly step on the “little guy” who just so happens to make up the overwhelming majority of golfers? If the individual person (such as yourself) wants to make the game more challenging and use persimmons and blades, be my guest! Just leave room in the rule book for 30 & 40 somethings who are just starting to learn the game and need all the help they can get.

      Reply

      Emery

      5 years ago

      As long as I can have GIR without hero shots and maybe….If I really went after it and kept that drive on the fairway…an Eagle putt or two per round…things are fine for me.

      Reply

      Charles

      5 years ago

      Apparently I’m in the minority here. I’m 65 years old, and I certainly don’t possess the strength, flexibility, quickness, and balance as I did at age 21. Yet I have a hybrid in my bag that I hit further than I hit my driver when I was 21 years old! Think about it.

      IMO, technology has resulted in courses spending more money so they won’t become obsolete (i.e. by redsigns or adding tee boxes so they challenge golfers as the course architect originally intended) as well as increase course water and maintenance costs. The net result is a more costly game, with course closures (e.g. Diablo Grande’s Legends, and Stevinson Ranch), and longer rounds. And that my friends is not a good state of affairs.

      Reply

      Al

      5 years ago

      The closures I read are due to not having available water for the course or watering the neighborhood. So lengthening the course was not an issue here.

      Reply

      Sandy

      5 years ago

      Charles,
      Not only are you in the minority, but so far at the end of the Bell Curve that you need binoculars to find you!
      If you now hit a hybrid further than you hit a driver when you were 21, you must have been awful at that age. Congratulations on working hard to improve to where you are today.

      Reply

      Scotty

      5 years ago

      Well I don’t have a USGA handicap… I have a GA handicap (Australia). Maybe a more universal question of what’s your handicap next time?

      Also, with the “I would use illegal equipment if roll-back is implemented” responses is actually a “I’ll just keep on using my same stuff until I eventually buy new equipment, whether it is illegal or not”

      Reply

      Froboz

      5 years ago

      Our GA is based on USGA

      Reply

      Scotty

      5 years ago

      Well I don’t have a USGA handicap… I have a GA handicap (Australia). Maybe a more universal question of what’s your handicap next time?

      Reply

      Al

      5 years ago

      I did not read every word on this subject so forgive me if it was mentioned. Age; I will soon turn 65 and can tell you since the age of about 50 I started losing distance each year. Better technology on all equipment did not help me enough to keep the average 250 driving yards I could then hit.
      The rough is a great equalizer. But why punish a player who can bomb it down the middle 350 yards. The equalizer to the long ball is the one who can putt.

      Reply

      Cap

      5 years ago

      For me, golf is a life-long pursuit–but what’s my purpose? Lower scores, certainly, but ultimately we’re all trying to hit the ball the same distances as the big boys. Obviously, very few golfers ever will but the 1% show us what is possible. They serve as an inspiration for what can happen if and when you finally manage to ‘figure it out’. Unfortunately, most of us will never get there but the beauty of the game lies in ‘the chase’.

      Reply

      Rick

      5 years ago

      I’d be interested in seeing the breakdown of those that chose to definitely not play non-conforming clubs or balls.

      Reply

      joro

      5 years ago

      One question, how many Players who hit under 300 have won in the last year, and how many winners hit it consistently in the Fairway. A 8 Iron or Wedge from the rough it easier for them than a long Iron from the Fairway for a shorter hitter. I was very long in the past and had no problem if I missed a fairway, as the winner last week who was over 300,

      Reply

      Josh Leyes

      5 years ago

      The USGA is so out of touch with the masses that play the game for recreation, not for a living. A 7000 yard course can still be challenging with some setup changes (make the sightlines tougher by tweaking the tee box angles, grow the rough, and keep the firm fairways so hitting it too long can cause balls to roll through into penal rough). And most of all FORGET THE CONCEPT OF PAR! What used to be a par 72 course is now likely a par 68 or 69 for most of today’s pros, so just accept that scores will be lower on average. Focus on the total score rather than the score in relation to “par”. It would wreck the amateur game to roll the ball/driver back.

      Reply

      cksurfdude

      5 years ago

      I’d suggest we already have a bifurcation of the Rules – specifically, consider Stroke play vs Match play rules. And yes .. those rules apply to *play* and not to equipment.

      But one point here is that the Pros and other “stipulated round” tourney players are already managing under two sets of rules .. and rules that can be very different for the same in-play circumstance.
      (And that’s not considering amateur league play where they seem to feel free to do whatever they want.)

      So what’s the big deal to .. bifurcate .. equipment rules for tournament and handicap rounds vs “avid golfer” recreational rounds?

      Re: cost – an additional potential cost here might be a need for equipment “judges” to examine each players’ clubs and golf balls before, during and after each tournament round. (So imho such a cost should be borne by the tournament itself and not by the general recreational golfing public.)

      Reply

      Chuck Dietz

      5 years ago

      RIGHT ANSWER

      Reply

      Andrew Han

      5 years ago

      I hate the idea of bifurication. Rules and equipment should be the same, and its not like their equipment is not accessible. More expensive, but certainly not out of reach. Fittings are there for the public, so you can optimize like the pros.

      I want to know how much better the pros are than the amatuer. I like the scale of skill levels between the pros vs the Joes. They are the carrot stick.

      Basketball courts, shoes, balls, and etc are not modified for the pros. Granted the public courses I play, (2 to 3 times a year), are not pro level, but I can appreciate the difficulty and level of skills knowing that most equipments are similar and accessible. Courses are obtainable or I can play in similar format/condition.

      Reply

      chrisk

      5 years ago

      That’s part of it — i don’t think the pros really do play the same equipment. There’s always been rumors of “hot” clubs on demo days, and pros getting hot drivers that we never see.

      Bob Lawrence

      5 years ago

      I about spit out my coffee when I read that the USGA should make the pro’s eat more donuts! We need to keep it simple, distance is not a problem for 99%+ of golfers, including pro’s and elite amateurs. There are incredibly few golf courses and Golf Clubs that are NOT suffering; so asking them to narrow fairways (and piss off those short & long knockers and slow up play) and soften up fairways (more water, more money, MORE SLOW play), is just another reason for players to go onto other sports… 5+ hours away from home / kids: wify wants dad home, dad wants wify home; not good for Saturday nite nookieness. USGA needs to drop this perceived effort, and save marriages.

      Reply

      Karl

      5 years ago

      The charm of this great game is that we can play with the same type of equipment and on the same courses (if we’re lucky!) as the pros play. Having a pro ball and an amateur ball is ridiculous, how would anyone ever improve and compare themselves to the best in the world? How would one transition from the amateur ranks to the pros? We may not all hit it as far as the top pros but good amateurs are capable of hitting wedges, chips, and putts that even a pro would be happy with. How about the firm fairways on tour? 40-50 yards of roll is crazy, 10-15 yards max where I play, if even that.

      Reply

      don

      5 years ago

      I don’t understand the idea we need to lengthen the course to protect it? Basketball players got taller they didn’t raise the hoop, They got more accurate with better practice, they didn’t make the basket smaller. They just accepted that the score would go up at the pro level. Imagine 5-10 yr olds tying to throw the ball higher into a smaller hoop. Those games sometime end now with less than 20 points total. In golf if the best players can hit driver wedge on every hole so be it. If they shoot 59 every week, again it’s just the natural progression of the game. No one wants a longer football field, to protect the game from bigger faster players they just watch and enjoy the higher scores.

      Reply

      Jerry

      5 years ago

      I am in agreement with a previous comment on course setup being a good start towards leveling the playing field. Any good golfer can tell you that some courses are a bombers paradise while others kill the less than straight hitter. But the fun tracts are those that let you hit away (seriously does anyone enjoy laying up?) but with teeshot position being critical to an easier approach to the green. I love the hole that says “go for it” to a narrow opening or needing to hug an OB or lake in order to position for an ideal approach. I’ve seen courses position mounds that block views or tilt greens or narrow the landing area on greens when you bomb to the wide place on a fairway and conversely “open” the landing area on greens for the guys who challenge the tough side of the fairway. Courses that are designed in this way are not only more fun to play but take away the long hitters advantage off the tee unless he can hit it to the tighter landing area. In February the Pro’s play at Club de Golf Chapultepec which is a classic old course in Mexico designed by Willie Smith, Scottish golfer who won the US Open in 1899. The course opened in 1928 and is relevant even for today’s Pro’s because you have to play position golf.

      Reply

      Stump

      5 years ago

      Here’s my take on the ball/driver issue: If I want to play recreation golf and USGA sponsored tournaments, if they roll back the ball then I can play a conforming ball in tournament and non-conforming ball recreationally, all for the cost of a dozen balls. However, looking at the driver, it would take me the cost of two drivers to have a conforming and a non-conforming driver. It’s a lot easier for me to have two sets of golf balls than two sets of drivers.

      Reply

      john

      5 years ago

      It doesn’t matter how whomever tries to change the distance of golf shots… The SAME players that are much longer than the others will STILL BE longer than the others, it would just be shorter for everyone overall… Changing the turf conditions and layouts of the courses is the only way to level the playing field… GOOD LUCK to the governing bodies… Try measuring the roll out of drives and the average scoring from off the fairways might give some valuable information…

      Reply

      Dan

      5 years ago

      Scotty cameron issues “tour only”putters to pros. Why cant ball manufacturers issue “tour only” golf balls. Just makes sense.

      Reply

      StephenD

      5 years ago

      SHOCKING!!! The majority of readers of a website about modern golf clubs and golf technology, don’t think there is anything wrong with modern golf clubs and golf technology. I AM SHOOK!!!!

      Reply

      Scotty

      5 years ago

      Lol. I thought that with the age distribution.

      Reply

      Dwayne

      5 years ago

      Leave the ball alone, make the pros use 43″ persimmon drivers, muscle-back blades, etc., let ams use what we have now,

      Like MLB, those guys use wood bats, everybody else at other levels use aluminum, etc.

      Reply

      Sam

      5 years ago

      Yup, I agree – way to much emphasis on distance, bombing and not on skill, ball shaping etc. The easier thanks to equipment the better ? not really !

      Reply

      Waazzupppp

      5 years ago

      I still say there’s way too much emphasis being placed on this topic. I mean, the only people to benefit from this would be the club makers – which would be selling massive amounts of new “conforming clubs” to players. Instead of attacking the drivers or the courses, lets do the following:

      1) Set a maximum forgiveness rating in irons well below where they are now – think of a blade plus tungsten and that is all you get.

      2) Create a maximum/minimum weight for a putter. These new ones that don’t twist or deflect on mishit putts need to go away.

      3) Cut back to 12 clubs in the bag – we don’t use many of them anyways…

      4) Mandate that courses need to set a maximum width of fairway at 30 yards (90 feet) to help players become more accurate – not longer. This will also lower course maintenance costs as they only have to mow a smaller area regularly.

      5) Invoke a new policy that states – no matter what people do to equipment, if it’s within the rules of the game, we won’t later make a rule to make it non-conforming. For example, I could place lead tape on my Wilson Triton driver, mimicking the “12G Weight Issue” that made the driver non-conforming, and there’s nothing they can do about it. Lead tape is legal and so is the driver – therefore – the change would be allowed.

      Most of all, leave the amateur game alone…. Most of us need as much help as we can get in the conditions we play in.

      Reply

      Bryan Begley

      5 years ago

      Great Survey – Article – I feel it’s apples and oranges. Pros and elite amateurs vs “regular” am’s – I’m 52 ghin 7.1 in shape yadda yadda, only hit driver avg 235-240 any roll back would make game WAY less fun for the general golfing population. What I see coming are drivers or balls or both being limited for pros and elite am’s – It would spell disaster for gov bodies to roll back equp./ball for all – golfers would quit I’d guess 20% ish – I wouldn’t love game too much but it would really hurt game. HOPEFULLY USGA will do the right thing this 1 time

      Reply

      Bill Odom

      5 years ago

      I’m 49, my body fat is too high, I sit working at my desk too much, and I don’t hit the ball far enough as it is to compete adequately vs “kids” under 30. I do hit the ball straight. Tighten up the fairway widths and let the damn grass grow. Make accuracy great again!

      Reply

      Rick

      5 years ago

      I still don’t quite understand why golf hasn’t managed to separate those that play at an elite level from those that play at a recreational level. It seems like every other sport is able to do so.

      Reply

      Peter

      5 years ago

      Hi,
      I dont see the distance being the major problem for the recreational golfer as the player still needs to get the ball up and down the hole, the biggest problem I see in the Pro ranks is that courses are set up for distance with super wide fairways with little to no consequence for off fairway hits what about making the rough a real penalty say 5 inches deep it would then force pro players to thinks strategically about their drives. I have only started replaying after a 20 years break but that Is what I have observed watching the PGA tour. The above is not the only solution that could be implemented but one that could be used in tournament weeks and reverted back for the recreational golfer.

      Reply

      shortside

      5 years ago

      Golfers are lot like fisherman with their tales. Driving distance too long while the handicap is too low. Especially if they counted strokes straight up. I pair up with guys all the time (including the private club set) that don’t count penalties accurately, pick up 2 1/2′ putts, and add 50 yards to their drops as a habit. Which is fine if money isn’t involved. Have a good time and tell your tall tales.
      Fact is the average player should be teeing off from 6300 yards. I have one local “sporty” county course (it’s a gem) that’s 6019 yards from the tips. Short for the long hitter but a warning. Their driver better be on that day. You’re not hitting out of those woods and then there’s the sneaky undulating greens.
      That said course set up alone could solve the problem at the pro level. Why they gave in at Erin Hills and cut back the rough and fescue escapes me. That was the course’s defense under perfect conditions. Make missing fairways penal. We saw that at the Ryder Cup. The USA’s power game was neutralized. Team chemistry wasn’t the problem. Their game was. If a player is long and accurate with a short game to capitalize on it they deserve win. But the truth is the odds of hitting tight fairways 75+% of time with 325+ yard drives week after week is small to say the least. Even the pro’s go hot and cold with the long stick. Grow the rough and tighten the fairways for the elite. Problem solved. In short to me it’s become the PGA’s version of “Chicks dig the long ball”. I actually enjoy watching the LPGA more these days. Guys hitting wedge into the green over and over again is what it is.
      And yes. I picked up the game with persimmon woods and very unforgiving muscle back irons that bit you hard on mishits. I prefer today’s equipment by a country mile.

      Reply

      Steve

      5 years ago

      Agree with you on every point.

      Reply

      RAT

      5 years ago

      Amen! Make taming the course a major factor.The game has become a bomber game, hit it high and let it fly. It’s not fun watching a tourney with scores in the mid to high teens plus.
      Take away the green books! Change the COR on pro clubs for the tour players.

      Reply

      wbn

      5 years ago

      Shortside is dead on. For upper level tournaments let the rough grow to make accuracy a premium. Cut the rough back after the tournament for us am’s to speed up play and make it enjoyable. Long knockers did not have a noticeable advantage during the Ryder Cup. Also the LPGA is a game I can more readily identify with as to distances.

      Reply

      Josh Leyes

      5 years ago

      Agreed.

      Reply

      Leo

      5 years ago

      Then the tour players would be hitting irons off every tee.Nobody wants that

      Reply

      boyo

      5 years ago

      They wouldn’t be hitting wedge into every green.

      Oliver

      5 years ago

      That was more useful than the entire article. Hope the usga gives you a job.

      Reply

      STS

      5 years ago

      Agreed completely

      Reply

      JasonA

      5 years ago

      Survey should be re-conducted after:

      1) the Ryder Cup 2018. “Agronomy” shut down the big hitters.

      2) Cameron Champ: 193 AVERAGE ball speed. 350 yards carry. This will destroy many courses.

      USGA now seems more prescient than a website I’m fond of :-)

      Reply

      Chris

      5 years ago

      Great point! Although I don’t think it was so much about agronomy. European Ryder Cup Captain, Thomas Bjorn, specifically picked that course because it required accuracy and you couldn’t just “bomb” it all over the place. The US was a team full of long ball hitters and their lack of accuracy showed. Maybe this is the ticket for shutting down the long ball all the time mentality.

      Reply

      Berniez40

      5 years ago

      I’m not optimistic either. The USGA has screwed me on my Wedges, and my putter, thus forcing me to abandon techniques I worked hard to develop…..and sadly—all associated with the short game. Now they want to take away what little advances I’ve made in my long game? What a bunch of @$$hats! The natural processes of aging and less and less quality time for golf continue to take their toll on my long game, and need no help from the Unilateraly Stupid Goobers Association.

      Reply

      Fwiater

      5 years ago

      Great write up, let’s hope the USGA has their hearing aides turned on.

      Reply

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