Should golf instructors be ranked?
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Should golf instructors be ranked?

Should golf instructors be ranked?

Should golf instructors be ranked?

When I posed this question on #mytubspy, to the surprise of absolutely no one, answers ranged from “Absolutely, 100% Yes!” to “Not no, but hell no.”

But upon further analysis, there are some meaty nuggets of information worthy of discussion.

Here’s a compilation of what viewers had to say. As always, let us know what you think.

A QUESTION WORTH ASKING

It’s fair to wonder whether the answer to the overarching question is one we can reasonably answer. If not, it becomes an academic exercise of futility. It might inspire several minutes of decent debate on social media, but that’s about it.

If we decide to venture down this path of ranking golf instructors, then what’s the most meaningful approach? That is, how do we produce answers that actually help golfers find an instructor that best meets specific criteria?

What is a “fair” and objective way to do this? How much subjectivity is too much?

Implicit in the primary question is that we must consider why golfers take lessons. The obvious answer is to get better at some aspect of the game. But that’s not the only one. Golfers take lessons for myriad reasons. This list includes, but is not limited to: social engagement, periodic swing “tune-ups”, fault/fix methodologies, unique experience (golf schools), something to do/support a club or pro, etc..

With that in mind, if anything was clear, it’s that there’s plenty of strong feelings and no obvious answers. Here’s a quick overview of the most popular responses.

NOPE, UH-HUH, NO WAY

Most criticisms aligned with one of the three following stances.

The question is too difficult to answer. My hunch is the thinking here is that ranking something as subjective as teaching/learning possibly doesn’t lend itself well to a clear numerical ranking system. Another possibility is that some believe the question just “feels” too dicey.

The role of the golfer. An instructor can provide a student with all the information, techniques, drills, and support necessary to improve. But, it’s still incumbent on the student to put in the reps. As Ben Hogan suggested, “the secret is in the dirt.” Put another way; there isn’t an instructor that can overcome a lazy student.

The importance of “fit.” Sometimes it’s not what an instructor says, but how he or she says it. As with every interpersonal relationship, an individual’s style, cadence, demeanor, and ability to communicate might match what you’re looking for. Or it might not.

YES and IT’S PROBABLY OVERDUE

It’s a popularity contest. As it stands currently, the majority of well-publicized lists feel more like high schoolers voting for homecoming court than an honest attempt to rank instructors. The names might move up or down a bit from year to year, but it tends to be harder to get in with the “cool” kids than it does to stay in the clique.

Player feedback. Any list or ranking of instructors that relies solely upon peer-review ignores the consumer. At best, it seems odd to rank teachers without any consideration for the student.

It doesn’t have to be perfect. As much as everyone would love a neat, objective fool-proof system, that’s not the most likely outcome. However, this shouldn’t stop anyone from exploring better options. Keep in mind, before Mark Broadie’s “Strokes Gained” platform, we relied heavily on stats like “number of putts/round” to help determine the best putter. With stat-tracking and game management systems like Arccos and ShotScope, we have access to personal technology that can definitively measure player performance.

WHERE DO WE GO?

This isn’t a new topic or the first time someone has questioned the status quo around ranking golf instructors.  As always, the lingering question is, “So what?”

What’s most helpful to golfers? What’s even feasible? How can we better incorporate golfer feedback?

Perhaps we need a JD Power type quality ranking for all instructors. Maybe the best system is one that assigns grades (A-F) rather than numerical rankings.

But, most importantly, let’s hear from you. Tell us what you think.

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Chris Nickel

Chris Nickel

Chris Nickel

Chris is a self-diagnosed equipment and golf junkie with a penchant for top-shelf ice cream. When he's not coaching the local high school team, he's probably on the range or trying to keep up with his wife and seven beautiful daughters. Chris is based out of Fort Collins, CO and his neighbors believe long brown boxes are simply part of his porch decor. "Isn't it funny? The truth just sounds different."

Chris Nickel

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      Gregory

      3 years ago

      To me, swing flaws are related to physical limitation and time allotment to practice and play . You cold spend many $$$$$, but its not going to matter if you can’t execute physically…

      Reply

      michael

      4 years ago

      Ridiculous idea. While most of the instructors are working from a pretty standard model, their emphasis/discussion points may vary to a small degree. The evaluator, the basis of the article’s question, is far less knowledgable and far less capable of comparing one instructor’s strengths vs another: ‘hey bud, evaluate the guitar skills here vs here”. Buddy, who has played the guitar for 1 week, is going to have a much different answer than the fella who has a legitimate understanding of how to play the guitar and recognizes the good and bad of the instruction he/she is receiving. And then the people in between…good luck with that.

      Reply

      Paul

      4 years ago

      Who is doing this ranking? If there is a professional body that can assess the performance of instructors against uniform standards, then fine, but you can’t judge a coach based on results. Was Tiger Wood’s Dad the best golf coach ever because of the results of his student? Teachers, in all professions, should be judged on their articulation of learning, rather than how successful the student is for taking in that knowledge, and I just don’t see how there is enough money to financially support that rating system.

      Reply

      Garry

      4 years ago

      Instructors should be rated to give a potential student to evaluate what they like and see in ratings based on what might be fit technically and personality.

      Reply

      SImms

      4 years ago

      It is a gamble who you learn from, beginner to seasoned pro. Is there ways to describe what they teach, Arm controlled, Body controlled, Connected swing, Upright Swing (shout out to Trahan) How about a single plane swing (shout out to Tim and Todd Graves, and Palm springs own Jerry Martin). Good Luck choosing an instructor…..do you want to play at Pro level or just keep it in play with your buds?

      Reply

      scott

      4 years ago

      instructors should be rated for one and only one standard. Are they over priced . I’ve seen the pricing of some of the top instructors and thought there really is a sucker born every minute..remember u tube is free and so are the lessons

      Reply

      Kansas King

      4 years ago

      I think ranking or quantifying pros nearly impossible. At best you could have a directory of professionals with details about how they teach. I’m a big proponent of the principles taught by Manual de la Torre (first PGA profession of the year in in the 80s). His swing concept (club based swing) is far different than most professionals who teach the body based swing. It’s difficult to find pros that teach that method.

      I think there is way too may variable to try ranking professionals. In addition, I have to ask, what is the point of ranking professionals? Most people go to local pros and aren’t necessarily willing to shell out thousands for lessons and travel to get to them. Are there good and bad pros? Sure, but I think that is for the golfer to decide. In addition I don’t think providing a ranking of pros would provide any value to the readers.

      The best value that could be provided to readers is to educate them on swing concepts that are taught and how they vary. If you plan on doing a survey maybe craft it so it lays out what methods were most effective and least effective. Try and give readers a framework and education on what is available.

      Reply

      Jake

      3 years ago

      Why is there not a rating system? Look at ebay! You know how many times I didn’t order something because the person had little or terrible feedback. It saved me a lot of trouble. However if I want to spend $100 an hour and trust someone with my game its all trial and error? It’s not about the results of the students but the SATISFACTION of the students! Are they satisfied with their results/experience/cost etc. It is the instructors JOB to make sure their student is happy whether it be fun/knowlefge/social whatever.
      Some have said it won’t work because it depends on the student too and of course it does but if a teacher has 1,000 reviews and 5 people say he/she is the worst instructor but 995 say he/she is amazing then the truth is clear pretty quick. Right now it is a total crap shoot where you can be sold a complete lie and there are no consequences except you have gotten worse and wasted money. There is ZERO accountability!

      Reply

      Mark

      4 years ago

      We have a teacher here at our shop, he does about 300+ lessons a year. Some love him, some think he is ok, some think he didn’t help much. Its so subjective. He gives a lesson, customer A goes out and takes the drills he taught and works on game, drops handicap, loves him, Customer B takes lesson, thinks he should be on tour now, doesn’t practice shoots same scores, hates him. No way to really rank or grade, so subjective based on personality and level of effort to work on game by player. Period.

      Reply

      James T

      4 years ago

      Maybe like Uber they should rate each other. And the average between the two scores becomes the rating.

      Reply

      Jake

      3 years ago

      That is like saying you cant do reviews for anything because people are individuals. If you are rating a truck some people have short legs, long arms, want to drive fast on the freeway, want to use it on a ranch, tow a 5th wheel, pick up the kids from school, drive around town, take it to the beach, it’s too loud, it’s too quiet etc.
      You are saying there is NO way for any student to have any idea what thry are getting into with a golf coach? I guess we shouldn’t have ratings for doctors, lawyers, or police? They all have governing bodies for checks and balances. The golf industry DOESNT CARE enough about how much damage teachers are doing. There is nothing to hold them accountable.

      Reply

      Stephen Pearcy

      4 years ago

      Most golf instructors are club pros who’se primary interest is extra income and keeping the club members happy. They aren’t really interesting in teaching techniques or tools and, as such, don’t have a lot of value as instructors. But how do you rate them? Two skills are necessary: 1). The ability to see (either by eye or equipment) what needs fixing and 2). The s,kill to efficiently guide the student into making the proper corrective move(s).

      Reply

      JasonA

      4 years ago

      The coach I go to mostly is an ex- European Tour Pro.. Fantastic level of knowledge, psychological insight and a true love of getting people better.
      On other hand I could see why people may struggle with his input.

      An AVERAGED A-F rating would be in appropriate. Different groups will get different picture.

      A – for scratch golfers and most beginners.
      A – for some knowledgeable mid-handicap golfers
      D – for established golfers that have a different picture / terminology of the swing

      What I want to know In a DIRECTORY
      – Does work with existing swing
      – Tips or fundamentals
      – Swing “model” / principals
      – Price
      – Tech used
      – Qualifications
      – Golf experience
      – Golf levels coached (successfully)

      Reply

      Robert Norton

      4 years ago

      I don’t know how you can rate golf instructors outside it being a huge popularity contest on who is the trend at the time. amateurs are spending big bucks on lessons and some research shows that we are not getting any better when looking at the flawed handicap index over the years. If there were some sort of registry that was organized and sent to every golfer that gets a lessons to score the teaching Pro and would provide a platform for scoring effectiveness that improved handicap should be a component of the overall score. The governing bodies should be pushing this to find answers to why handicaps are not improving and more people are leaving the game. On a positive note my experience with the pros I have taken lessons from (maybe 3 at the most) have been outstanding and my handicap has gone from a 11-12 to as low as a 3 in my best days. Tim Frazier gets the entire picture, knows the mind, body and mechanics to complete the entire package!!

      Reply

      Dave Sanguinetti

      4 years ago

      Too often rankings become subjective and biased(opinion driven). Fox news/MSNBC one sees looting and rioting the other see social change that old white men deserve! For example Chris Como is terrible on camera(bad stage presence and delivery), but listen carefully to the incredibly insightful things he says—– how do you or mister X rank him. Instructors are like Prince/Princess Charmings, kiss a lot of frogs till you find the real one!!!!!!

      Reply

      Jeff

      4 years ago

      Two thoughts on this:

      1. If you’re looking for tips or videos or generic instruction we should 100% rank. I find Martin Chuck & George Gankas to resonate well with me and my game has improved from their tips. Both are routinely ranked in the top 50 by various sites.
      2. For most golfers working with one of thousands of PGA Pros at a club, golf store, etc – what matters far more than any ranking is other soft-skill details. Also, what are their philosophies? How do they coach? Do they have a preferred approach or speciality? Do they play with the same hand as me? Etc. To that end, if you want 1:1 personalized lessons, a robust directory that helps you make a more informed choice is going to be valuable. A ranking? Not so much.

      Reply

      JT

      4 years ago

      Ranked?

      No.

      Graded?

      Yes

      I feel ranking creates exclusivity in a game that’s already largely fairly exclusive. Many people already know there are teachers they will never have access to, that’s not right.

      Don’t rank them, grade them where they shine. Maybe Joe C in NC is average across the board but short game clinic lessons could be a product by itself. Maybe the guy that charges $200 an hour has great fitness fitness routine and long drive regine but is a prick. I wanna know. Golf pro should work on like an Angie’s list honor system.

      Reply

      nakman7

      4 years ago

      Why bother. The top rated surely aren’t on my affordability list

      Reply

      PeteAlo

      4 years ago

      Yes instructors should be ranked, but they should also be able to rank their students as well.
      If you get the student from hell that doesn’t want to change or learn, then they will obviously pour crap all over the instructor for not helping them.
      In a roundabout way instructors are already ranked right now. You know who is a good instructor by the waiting list to see them.

      Reply

      DH

      4 years ago

      I belong to a private club that has seven golf professionals and all are able to give lessons. Most are correct when they note the agenda for ranking is quite subjective, however of the seven in our club most members will point to two that are exceptional.

      In our case most of us have been playing for many years so when we go to the instructor it is for a tuneup. I find that a good instructor will first connect with the player personally and then address the problem area quickly and simply. From there did the instruction work and did the player improve? Many instructors want to change everything from grip, stance, swing and contact in one lesson. For the new golfer that’s fine but not for the seasoned that golfer.

      I am in agreement on ranking instructors. I believe the agenda should be as simple as the player’s opinion on the effectiveness of the lesson. Did it work for them? Maybe a ranking from 1 to 10. In our member owned club, I think this would be very helpful for the golf director and GM during annual evaluations of the professional staff.

      Reply

      Mike

      4 years ago

      Who’s doing the ranking and how are they doing the ranking. I had a weekly session with a well-noted instructor in my area that ran for three or four months. ZERO improvement. I took a 10-minute lesson at a golf show, felt it positively changed my swing so much I spent a month trying to track down the guy and will eventually go back to him for lessons. I honestly think this topic is ridiculous. Are we running out of golf things to write about?

      Reply

      Chris Nickel

      4 years ago

      If anything, your experience seems to suggest the validity of some type of ranking/feedback system. If you went to a doctor for 3-4 months, did everything he/she told you to and never got better, might that not be important information to pass along?

      Reply

      Mike

      4 years ago

      Chris, thanks for commenting on my post. I think feedback on instructors would be valuable if contained in some type of database. But then in today’s litigious society, if I totally panned someone because it either didn’t work out for me and/or cause I thought they were a jerk, do I open myself up to being sued for slander?

      Ralph Finaldi

      4 years ago

      I don’t think this is possible and fair. Too many variables and too many golfer abilities and personalities. I think ratings may be a better idea to rankings. Every instructor has a different approach to teaching, and every student gravitates to a different teaching method. And each experience is different for every person. How do you rank any instructor? What they taught you? Their ability to assess your weaknesses to help you correct them? Fees vs. takeaways? How what they taught you has positively affected your game? Even ratings needs a long list of questions to be answered after every session so the ratings are as close to accurate as possible. And every person would have to go through this process to properly identify strengths and weaknesses in each instructors skill set. There would also have to be minimums as it relates to the number of sessions.

      What I have found extremely useful is Mike Bender’s videos while he’s teaching students. Why? Because I can see first hand what to expect, his teaching style, what he’s teaching and how and the teacher-student interaction. It’s about as raw as it gets and that gives me a good sense of what I can expect before I even show up.

      The two instructors I gravitate towards mostly are Bender and McCormick. They provide solid instruction and really great tips and drills.

      A golf instructor web portal could be a great starting point.

      Reply

      SV677

      4 years ago

      This is a tough one. Someone mentioned a comparison rather than a scoring system which seems to make sense. I am mostly self-taught, but use instructors when I can’t solve the problem. However, finding a good recommendation is almost impossible. I have found it is as much, or more, trial and error as working the problem out myself.
      Being left-handed is a bit of a problem, but things have improved. Many years ago I went to someone that when he saw I was left-handed literally said, “what do I do with you?” Needless to say it was a waste of time and money. Since then I would say things have improved, but I can say there has only be one instructor that I would recommend.

      Reply

      Marty

      4 years ago

      Ever been to a driving range. Everyone is a golf instructor. From dads to grandpa. I’ve been in the business of golf and found that ever course has teacher of golf there is no standard they all become teachers of golf Bad systems.

      Reply

      BUCKEYE DOUG

      4 years ago

      I absolutely believe we should rank teaching golf pros. We rank pizzas right? I have taken lessons off of over 12 pros. There are some of them that should take up another profession. Some are better with beginners. Most people who take lessons are committed enough to hit balls, and play in between lessons. Teaching golf is a very soft skill.. The best rule of thumb I can give you for taking lessons is that if you can schedule a lessons from a pro in the same week, you probably should not take a lesson because his schedule shows that he is not effective and does not have a dedicated following. If you go into a restaurant at 630 and the restaurant is empty, the food is bad, get back in the car and drive down the road

      Reply

      Lou

      4 years ago

      If you find your golf game improving by working with a golf instructor, name brand or not, then you have yourself a top ranked instructor. The best golf instructor I ever had was an assistant pro who walked the range and offered little tidbits of advice and did it for an occasional beer people used to buy him. He didn’t want money. He wanted the satisfaction of helping someone improve. All the rankings in the world wouldn’t have given this guy a sniff. But he helped so many in his lifetime. Rankings mean nothing. All rankings usually do is show who charges the most money and not who gets the best results with the most amount of people. Results are what count. Rankings don’t.

      Reply

      mackdaddy9

      4 years ago

      I think that any ranking would need to have categories of specialty. 1) youth development (2) seniors (3) Physically challenged (4) Beginners (5) Ladies (6) club specialists i.e. putting, wedges, driver… (7) General practitioners (8) Language specific (9) Strategic playing lessons

      Just a few that come to mind.

      Reply

      Mark M

      4 years ago

      I don’t think a numerical ranking, even at a more local level, is feasible due to so many subjective factors related to teaching by and learning from a PGA Pro or otherwise.

      I have been taught by a number of Golf Pros over my nearly 50 years of playing and can only remember one that was a terrible teacher. Everyone else had something to offer for my game. That said I have been steeped in golf since I was a teenager and was around enough players who could recommend a pro who was good. I know this type of information isn’t available to the general public or even the general golfing public.

      One thing that might be something that COULD be helpful would be Golf Teacher/Coach equivalent of Yelp! or the Golf Advisor/Golf Now course ratings. I know it’s also subjective, but you could actually research what students feel about a coaches style, techniques, personality, etc.
      Someone would have to create it though.

      Reply

      Don

      4 years ago

      Having taken many lessons over the years, there are truly good and bad teachers. You need to inform the students the teachers that have the ability to teach you and your strengthens not the one size fits all model. The former teach only what they know and want you to fit to their beliefs. However, each student has different strengths like flexibility and coordination and you need to take that into consideration. Also, single digit golfers need a certain type of teacher that can see what change that student needs to get to the next level. The average club pro does not have the ability to meet their needs.

      Reply

      Buddy

      4 years ago

      I think the SHOULD be….but maybe a concentrated yelp style site would be best we could hope for.
      Heck, Hank Haney, Sean Foley, Como and others have made it to the tour level with horrific methods. While other remain anonymous who do far more good.
      Then there are others who do much more good with beginners and other levels as well.
      As a former high school golf coach and avid student of the swing and other aspects nothing scared me more than when parents said they were seeking lessons from x y or z coach who we consistently saw zilch improvement from their players.
      Instruction is fabulous but the concept of learning with supplement of a pro is well out of kilter. Too many think the coach is substitute for experience on the course and practicing/experimenting alone.

      So…. yes great concept but virtually no mode of accurately and genuinely achieving the end goal.

      Reply

      Mick Lees

      4 years ago

      I’ve had lessons off several different Pro’s over the years and they certainly differ in ability and quality of lesson. Other trades have a system of customer rating so why not gold pro’s

      Reply

      Andy Fish

      4 years ago

      I think we could look at this from another perspective. While rating instructors sounds like a good solution, it comes with many obstacles that can be clouded by a student’s talent and work ethic. A student improvement based rating system would have the unintended effect of instructors cherry picking talented and highly motivated players. The beginner and recreational player (which will become the highly invested player) would be left out.
      Instead, we could look at what good instruction should consist of. There is a ton of research and scientific results that show us what good instruction/coaching contains. With this knowledge, the student would have a better understanding of what should be expected with good instruction. This would also give instructors a blueprint for becoming better teachers.
      A rating of the content in the instruction would be easier and “schools” would be the focus with talented instructors being part of that system.
      Or, we can keep arguing that great teachers have some kind of magic touch.

      Reply

      BUCKEYE DOUG

      4 years ago

      Not all golf student hit 2 buckets of balls a day, but if the driving range had a rewards card, they could track student’s visits at the driving range.

      Reply

      Dwayne

      4 years ago

      Yeah, there could be database of perspective coaches, with the technologies they use, costs, and ratings and reviews, and the students performance.

      Matt’s list works for me.

      Reply

      Rappers

      4 years ago

      It’s an interesting concept. One of the many problems associated with a ranking system is – who does the assessment? Amateur golfers having lessons might not be the best judges on who is a good golf teacher. Another issue – what is the criteria for judging the ability of a golf coach?

      If you look at other professional bodies many of them have a system of grades for members, from a lowly Associate right up to Chartered or Fellow. These grading systems are usually based on qualifications, peer assessment and experience. They are not perfect by any means, but food for thought…

      Reply

      Ian McGuinness

      4 years ago

      Just a couple of comments from an avid golfer who is a school teacher. I suggest that those looking for a decent teacher should look at facilities and resources. The hitting bays, the balls, the general practise areas as well as the use of training aids and technology such as swing analysis and launch monitors. Next comes the idea of the level of knowledge a good pro and his team should have. I would suggest a holistic integrated approach requires information on nutrition, fitness, stretching, physiology, biomechanics, psychology etc rather than just knowing about swing mechanics. Then we have the idea of a curriculum design. There needs to be a prior analysis, a plan to be enacted, perhaps with a chronolgical sequence, with work to done with the teacher and work to be done alone, with drills and pointers to follow backed up by periodic evaluation with improvement documented through videos and kept by the student by way of CDs or downloads. All this rather than the ad hoc improvisation “method” unfortunately used by all too many pros. Lastly, comes the idea of applied methodology and the pyschology of both teaching and learning involving emotional intelligence, communication strategies, attention spans, group dynamics, neurological pathways, student learning styles etc amongst a huge plethora of issues which make up a successful student-teacher interaction. This may be golf but it is still a pedagogical process. I often think that many pros are great players and know a lot about the sport, but their knowledge of teaching leaves a lot to be desired, and unforunately their shortcomings are invariably shown up when they have to teach kids, which is a tragedy. I also believe that if their training were much better with regard to being more professional teachers per se more people would end up having lessons. Sorry for the little rant there at the end but that´s my twopennies worth.

      Reply

      Mike

      4 years ago

      There should be a comparison system but not a scoring system. Not everyone learns the same way and not all personalities fit together. Having a system where a golfer can easily compare instructor’s credentials, philosophy, teaching methods, club fitting system, and student’s results will go a long way to make it easier to locate someone right for the individual golfer.

      Reply

      John D.

      4 years ago

      Learning is a matrix of teaching but the teacher should be given a score by an adult student. This would prompt bad teachers to charge according to their teaching skill sets and students reviews versus what the market will bare. Maybe a grading scale could be tied into a rate graph. I believe this would do wonders in a Golf Pro Instructor mindset as he/she gives lessons, as in “I hope this person rates me high. I will have to give them my best!”

      Reply

      john lacivita

      4 years ago

      golf instructors should only be ranked by their students. who best to discribe their learning experience. who cares if butch harmen is ranked better than hank Haney. the instructor the average golfer is going to use is somebody close to home.

      Reply

      Andrew Han

      4 years ago

      Whatever the metrics and methodology is going to be, it would only be fair if the instructor gets to grade the student as well. The teacher can only teach, but if the student doesn’t do the drills or put in effort, there will be minor to little improvement.

      Reply

      Ryan

      4 years ago

      I like a grading system. Looking at the top teachers listed in a golf magazine does nothing for me. I know many quality instructors that are very bit as good as these supposed top 100 lists.

      Great query and good luck!

      Reply

      JLS

      4 years ago

      Rankings are always flawed. No different than course rankings. Much comes down to personal preference. Is Pine Valley really better than Augusta National? Maybe, maybe not, it’s entirely subjective. A grading system predicated on a transparent rubric would be best. Under that type of system multiple instructors could all be graded “A” or “B” and wouldn’t necessarily rank one more highly than another.

      Reply

      Alain Carles

      4 years ago

      I don’t necessarily think a ranking is necessary or even important for several reasons. One, I am afraid ratings will drive costs up. Two, higher ranking does not necessarily mean they fit everyone and three, raking based on what criteria?
      I think there needs to be a PGA professional look up page, where it shows their handicap and their strengths and customer reviews. I am a 2 handicap and would love to work with a coach from time to time, but where and who do I go to for lessons to help me get to scratch?
      I agree that a high handicapper can benefit from taking lessons from any PGA professional, having access is the main issue. Going to your local course or club and just taking a lesson from the pro there is not good enough in my book.

      For the other question about ranking them based on player improvement…maybe! How would you track that is the question and how accurate will the data be? I think customer reviews would be a better option.

      If there was an app or website with local market PGA Professionals that I could search for and then see the reviews from similar handicap players to me, check the cost of the pro, availability, etc…I can then make a more informed decision and opt to use them more.

      Reply

      Doug Hastie

      4 years ago

      My thoughts are as follows:
      – there are definitely instructors who are better than others
      – one of the main criteria should be experience (the more you teach the better you get)
      – education is important and an easy thing to measure. This could be weighted on the kind of education and it’s recency (taking education courses shows a willingness to keep learning and a passion for teaching)
      – real and vetted student feedback would be great
      – Some knowledge on club fitting, physical restrictions, mental game, course management, etc should be measured
      – are they a specialist (putting, driving, etc.)
      – Do they get results!

      This would be a difficult and lengthy process, but could be very valuable to instructors and students alike.

      Reply

      joro

      4 years ago

      NO, they should not be ranked. A lot of them like Haney and Ledbetter are self made Hacks that take credit for everything a player using then does although it was not them that did anything but told. I have seen and Talked to both of them and they are nothing which poses the question does the teacher make the player of the player make the Teacher, but that is in the Pro ranks.

      The real teachers are the guys in the pits working with regular people who are trying to learn the game. And some of them are good at it and others are not. To be a good teacher you have to take what a person gives you and work with it, and the PGA teaching manual does not do that, it says it goes this way and only this way.

      I have been teaching for over 40 years and found out a lot about people and some just don’t have the ability to improve, yet others have the ability and it is about bringing that ability out through proper teaching, all people are not the same. To be honest there are a lot of teachers who really should not be teaching. I saw a guy that worked at a course as an assistant who had a decent game and wanted to teach, so the Pro let him, what a mess. I watched him “give” a lesson one day, he had no clue.

      So bottom line is a teacher is good to some and a hack to others, so how can you really rate that.

      Reply

      Mark Liquorman

      4 years ago

      Using what criteria? How do you determine “the best”? Or maybe a better question is “Best of What?”

      For example, there was an instructor at a par-3 course near where I used to live. He was good, and when I followed his instruction I generally did better.

      But he was absolutely terrific with kids! He would conduct like a golf day camp once or twice a week. The kids loved it! He set-up games for them (like who could hit a chip into a basket), so it wasn’t just grinding away at the range.

      He was also great with middle-age (or even older) women who were taking up the game for the first time. He was encouraging and supportive, so the women felt good out there even if they weren’t very good.

      With me, he was more like a Marine drill sergeant, but that’s what I needed!

      I doubt he ever had a student that went on to be on the Tour, so how do you rank him?

      Reply

      Jay Tingle

      4 years ago

      I find there to be a direct correlation between the quality of their student and their ranking, i.e. most of the teachers who work with PGA players are ranked well above those who dedicate their time to mere mortals. I have worked with a few teachers who had a PGA player in their ‘stable” and found them to be good but not decidedly better than some who had never worked with someone of that caliber. The only constant was the teacher who been reported to work with PGA players was going to costs decidedly more per lesson than someone who didn’t. Additionally, many of the teachers to the “stars: don’t work with the average golfer after they attain that status probably to avoid the pitfalls you mentioned. As with anything, your goal as a teacher of anything is to teach talented and motivated students.

      Reply

      Brian Thompson

      4 years ago

      I was an PGA member for 15 years and worked at both private and public facilities in the KC Metro area. I agree it is a popularity contest. I was nominated for Teacher of the year 3 years in row only to loose out to high profile members of our section. The only solace I took was a full lesson book and loyal clientele the provided numerous referrals. So, in short, I know it’s a popularity contest.

      Reply

      Chris Nickel

      4 years ago

      Brian – as a follow-up question, as a teacher, what questions do you think would be most beneficial to ask your students that would most accurately reflect their experience with you?

      Reply

      Dan Corun

      4 years ago

      I’d like to see a the opinions from the students of each instructor not they have taught here for such and such a time and they taught this Pro and that one. I’ve had 3 instructors in the 30+ years I’ve played golf. One just wanted to show off and the other 2 taught me some valuable lessons. I’ve never been rich so, it was always a package deal of so many lessons for a set price. I follow Mike Malaska on Youtube now and I like the way he teaches because it fits my game now that I’ve gotten older. .I watch other golf sites, but only Mike for tips on my game.

      Reply

      Gordon

      4 years ago

      In your club reviews each reviewer tests each club, and can therefore compare each club, and with objective metrics . Yet, most golfers have had just one or a limited number of coaches, except for those on-line, so comparisons and rankings are almost impossible

      Reply

      Justin T.

      4 years ago

      As a public school teacher, I would say that judging a teacher based upon their student’s work is fraught with complications almost too numerous to list. However, mastery of skill and knowledge by students is 100% the goal of the teacher, so student ability isn’t meaningless either- especially student growth. To complicate things golf instructors are fundamentally teachers, but they charge different rates, many of which are prohibitive (speaking as a public school teacher).
      I would love to take a few instructions as I’m worried my growth is starting to stall out at an 8, but how do I choose? I’d suggest the answer is probably a combination of things. Instructors should post philosophies, approaches, etc. But they should also post before and after videos of students, along with written references and before and after ghins- much like a personal trainer would do (I’m currently in the market for one of those too). If I’m going to drop bunches of cash I could be spending on rounds of golf on instruction instead, show me the improvement and the kinds of improvement that your students are capable of after having worked with you. Ratings and grades offer some value, but have too many underlying issues. Better to show us the results.

      Reply

      John d.

      4 years ago

      Yes, instructors need ranking. Reginial or at a minimum state level. My last instructor was the owner of the biggest golf school in the Triad of NC and he was horrible. Late to every lesson and he took phone calls while he gave me lessons. My word of mouth over the years has cost him but he shouldn’t be allowed near a person wanting to learn the game!

      Reply

      Tortise58

      4 years ago

      There are so many variables when it comes to teaching how much am I willing to practice to do the drills are really biggest factors in how I’m going to improve so it wouldn’t be fair to rate an Instructor poorly if I’m not going to do the work.

      Reply

      Jason

      4 years ago

      Objective data on improvement would be interesting and useful. Player has as much to do with it as coach so I would not recommend a grade or ranking system but rather information about outcomes with each coach.

      Need to separate kids/beginners who will improve regardless of the instructor and players who have been playing for awhile.

      Reply

      James T

      4 years ago

      I think beginning golfers and high-handicap golfers are content with seeing anyone who is considered a PGA teaching professional. I think when your handicap gets into single digits you are looking for someone to tweak a few things in your swing. That’s when you begin asking around about the best teaching pros.

      Reply

      Kirby

      4 years ago

      I like the idea! Everything is reviewed and it is one of the first things I look for when determining whether I should use a service or pay for something. If an instructor is confident, they should offer each client a card with a feedback link to maybe their PGA Professional page. Here they can do a star rating, select positive trait options and or negative ones. Then also provide the opportunity to add feedback. Basic demographic info and what the client was looking for etc. If someone is good at working with a newcomer, they may not be able to take a 5 handicap to scratch, same goes the other way. I think it would be very helpful.

      Reply

      RC

      4 years ago

      When I first considered the question, my gut feeling was “yes”, however that was without putting much thought into it. The reasons given for the “no” answer are very compelling imo. The factor that may be most important to a beginner is the fact that lessons are expensive, and you usually realize that the instructor may not be the right one for you midway through a package of lessons. Maybe instructors should offer a beginner a trial package of 3 lessons so that you can end the relationship if you find the teaching style doesn’t fit you. For those who take lessons to tweak, it’s always going to be trial and error finding somebody whose style fits you.

      Reply

      Howard Price

      4 years ago

      Absolutely golf instructors/teachers, whatever you want to call them, SHOULD be “graded”. In my opinion one of the things that a lot of golf instructors forget to tell the student is, how does the golf swing work, i.e. what roles does the gripe play, why keep your left arm as straight as possible, make sure you turn your hips, etc, ect.

      Weather or not the student has a basic understanding of the golf swing, they need to know :how it “works”. The golf student needs to understand what an “outside-in” swing will do to the flight of the golf ball, and visa-versa for an “inside-out” golf swing. Define an “athletic position”, most people have a basic idea of what it is, but they don’t understand how it will affect the golf swing as well as the flight of the ball.

      I know most people don’t want to take the time to understand what is going on in their golf swing, but if they really want to improve, then they must have a basic understanding of what I have mentioned above, as well as several concepts about the golf swing.

      Reply

      Matt

      4 years ago

      I think it’s absolutely necessary. Right now finding a golf coach is like looking for a general contractor. You have to get references and look through the weeds to find a good one. The best ones don’t advertise and are hard to find. Something like an Angie’s list would be great. It could be quantified with metrics such as track man and handicap reductions.

      Reply

      James T

      4 years ago

      Let’s call it “Arnie’s List”.

      Reply

      Danny

      4 years ago

      “…like looking for a general contractor.”

      What a great analogy. Don’t even get me started about finding a contractor.

      Reply

      chip75

      4 years ago

      You can objectively tell if a contractor has done a good job. There are probably a dozen (and more) metrics to rank instructors. You can have a fantastic coach that just doesn’t gel with their player, would that player rank them highly? Yes, we can rank an instructor on objective levels, do they turn up on time? do they give you data captures? are they personable? are they engaged with your process, your journey? but how do we rank the unquantifiable?

      Probably the most important aspect of instruction is finding a terminology that a player can relate to.

      If a player takes lessons, but doesn’t improve, would they rank their instructor highly? will they be honest about their efficacy?

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