The Best Irons Your Money Can Buy?
Irons

The Best Irons Your Money Can Buy?

The Best Irons Your Money Can Buy?

You Have The Power To Demand Better

(By GolfSpy T) Almost inconceivably there are some of you who still haven’t heard of Miura. Worse yet, there remain some who have heard of Miura, but can’t see a degree past the cost. And why is that? Here’s a theory. While you’ve been busy checking price tags you many not have even realized that big golf companies haven’t simply taught you to spend less (but spend often), they’ve actually conditioned you to expect less.

Sure, big OEM clubs cost less than the so-called boutique brands, but unless you win some sort of contest, you’ll quickly find out that even so-called “custom orders” have their limitations. Sure we can do a custom shaft upgrade. Just choose from these 5. Want custom grips? Absolutely…just pick from these 3..and no, we don’t stock IOmic. Frequency matched shafts? Good luck. “Sorting is done by the shaft manufacturer, we just assemble them”. Custom ferrules? Anything you want…as long as it’s black. As consumers, when we don’t realize what’s possible, too often we settle for what’s on the rack.

What you need to realize is that as a consumer you have the power to demand better. It’s your right to expect that if a club is supposed to be 27°, it’s 27° – not some number in between 26 and 28 (if you’re lucky). You absolutely should expect that every iron in your set will be perfectly weighted and balanced. When it comes to spending your hard earned money, you deserve nothing less than a Tour Van quality finished product built to exacting specifications with whatever level of customization you desire. If you believe you deserve better than off-the-rack, and that you deserve the very best your money can buy, then I believe you deserve Miura.

A Miura Fitting Story

Shortly before 11:30 on  dank, rainy Thursday morning, having already driven 45 minutes from my home just outside Saratoga Springs, NY, I boarded an equally dank south-bound Amtrak that would transport me to Penn Station in mid-town Manhattan. To mitigate any risk of getting lost in the city’s sequentially numbered streets, I took an early train, making sure to arrive early for my 3:00 appointment. While 189 miles (378 round trip) is a long way to travel for an iron fitting, having already heard from Miura, and having experienced their clubs for myself, the journey wasn’t so much about hitting golf balls as it was spending some time with a fitter who could provide me with the critical missing 3rd perspective on Miura’s legendary irons. His perspective, that of a man who has seen nearly everything the industry has to offer, would ultimately cement my belief that a small company in Himeji Japan, one whose products many American golfers still haven’t tried, is producing what are without a doubt the world’s finest forged irons.

While the ride into Manhattan was nothing to speak of, on the return trip a group of mostly in the bag Yankee fans boarded my train. One sat next to me and recounted how he and his friends had left the game early – well before the Bronx Bombers erased 6 run deficit in dramatic fashion; 3 grand slams, a major league record.

I didn’t care, but I had neither the heart nor the courage to let tell him that, or that I am a Sox (and more recently a Tiger’s) fan, or that baseball was the farthest thing from my mind today. I didn’t show him my swollen hands. I didn’t tell him that I was on my way home from a Miura fitting, and that I’d just put four of the company’s heads to 100 or so golf balls. I never mentioned that I had tried no less than 6 different shafts from Project X, KBS, and Nippon. I was tired. I didn’t bother to tell him that perhaps my swing isn’t as bad as I thought, but that it still wasn’t good enough. I should have told him that even at close to double the cost of most anything on the rack, Miura irons are the best value in golf. I thought he should know that, just like I think you should know that.

When in Manhattan…

My destination is only 3 and half blocks from Penn station. After a short walk, which included a stop for what is almost certainly the worst smoothie in the state (if not the country), $5 the poorer, I walked into the New York Golf Center.  For a guy from the burbs, stepping through those doors for the first time is a surreal experience. With a security guard standing sentry at the door, the New York Golf Center seems almost out of place. It is a golf oasis nestled in an urban dessert of skyscrapers, street vendors, and non-stop commotion. The walls and isles are packed tight with apparel and footwear. Despite comparatively confined quarters, the selection which includes names like PUMA, Travis Mathew, and J. Lindeburg, more than rivals the the Golf Galaxies and Dicks Sporting Good chains which are commonplace in the stripmall-lined streets of my home town. One thing, however, is conspicuous in absence. With the exception of a small, yet prominent display case at the base of a flight of stairs, there is no indication that the New York Golf Center stocks a single golf clubs.

The second floor of the New York Golf Center is where the action is.  Golf bags and iron sets line every inch of the wood paneled walls. Of particular prominence are two sets of custom assembled Miura irons. The first is a USA themed set of CB-501s outfitted with red, white, and blue, ferrules, grips, and matching paint fill. The 2nd is a set of the newly released Limited Edition Black Tournament Blades. Outfitted with bright orange and yellow ferrules and matching grips, sticker price on the blades, an 11-piece set that includes wedges, is $3300. Clearly I’m not in Kansas anymore.

At the edge of a well-outfitted putting area, Vokey, Cleveland, and Callaway wedges are stacked in a rack floor to ceiling. Drivers, woods, and hybrids fill the interior. The putting green is  flanked by fitting carts and a radar-equipped hitting bay that affords golfers the opportunity to try, try, and try again before they buy. For a golf equipment junkie, this is the champagne room.

The Introduction

It is between the putting green and a row of fitting carts that I first meet Josh Chervokas, Director of the NY Golf Center’s custom shop, and the guy tasked with putting me into the right set of Miura irons. Tall, in a pair of plaid pants, a bright green polo, and black cap (all PUMA), Josh doesn’t look the part of one of the top club fitters (Miura or otherwise) on the East coast. In my mind I pictured him older, more reserved, more traditional…more like the Miura brand itself. The guy I just introduced myself to is none of the above. He is Rickie Fowler’s uncle, or at least he looks the part.

I’d later learn, Josh grew up playing the game at the Sleepy Hollow Golf Club in Scarobourgh, NY. With plenty dog-leg right holes, Josh, a lefty, developed a draw to give himself an advantage over his right-handed friends. He now calls Bethpage his home track, which is the perfect playground for him to test his collection of largely custom built toys, most of which show off Josh’s colorful style and affinity for bright grips, ferrules, and custom paint fill. While Josh describes himself as a “featherhead”  who has a few different sets of clubs that all see play from time to time, if he’s playing you for money, his left-handed gunmetal Miura blades with early KBS C-Taper prototype shafts will most definitely be in his bag.

While at first glance Josh doesn’t look the part of a seasoned fitter, when it comes to pairing a golfer and his tools, Josh is the real deal. He performs around 600 fittings annually and has been featured in Golf Magazine (most recently in the 2011 edition). The thing is, the conservative looking guy in their stock photo bears little resemblance the man standing in front of me right now, and looks nothing like a man who would later tell me that Metallica’s “For Whom The Bell Tolls” is the most frequently played song on his iPod. He is personable, he is engaging, and he is all business.

It’s funny what one overhears while browsing through the isles of a golf shop. Sometimes the staff forgets you’re there, and may say something not otherwise meant for public consumption. What I learned about Josh while hiding quietly among a the golf bags  in the minutes before my session is that despite his relaxed appearance, he takes his craft as seriously as a 4-foot putt to win the Masters. His reputation is everything to him and its on the line with each and every fitting he performs, and with every set of clubs he builds. Like Katsuhiro Miura (or Miura-san as those inside Miura commonly refer to him), for Josh cutting a corner or  taking a shortcut simply is not an option. He is a professed believer in integrity and absolute perfection. On these things there can be no compromise.

Steadily rising as more people become aware of their offerings, Miura currently accounts for about 10% of Josh’s custom fittings business. Some come to the New York Golf Center specifically looking for Miura, others Josh and his staff introduce to the brand. While  cost invariably enters the discussion we talk about Miura, in the heart of Mid-Town Manhattan, where Josh Chervokas practices his trade, money is seldom an issue.

Josh explains, “New York City certainly affords me a high percentage of clients for whom cost is no object. That type of clientele always demands the best product be it golf clubs, cars, wine, or any other interests they might have and Miura has proven to be the best product I can put my hands on. That being said, golf is an obsessive game and many of my clients are hard working folk who might not spend as freely on their other endeavors, but see the value of spending on their passion for golf”.

The Miura Difference

Though the New York Golf Center is one of over 100 Miura dealers in the US, they are not a Miura dealer exclusively. Like they are at nearly any other pro shop in the country, TaylorMade, Mizuno, and Titleist are staples here.  Josh and his team will gladly fit their clientele for any brand they stock, but as a seasoned club fitter and builder, Josh doesn’t just sell it all, he has seen it all – good and bad; and when his customers demand the very best, Josh fits them for Miura.

Perfection is the place where Miura and a fitting with Josh Chervokas overlap. He has been fitting golfers for and assembling Miura clubs since 2008 and believes that there simply is no comparison to be drawn between Miura and other brands. “Miura head weights are always within one gram of perfect, the necks are dead straight and the lofts and lies are always perfect”. Josh further explains that “this type of quality is simply not possible in a mass market production line, which is why Miura will always be a boutique product. Any change in this philosophy and craftsmanship would stop Miura from being Miura”.

While operating on smaller scale allows Miura to be more methodical and more precise in its manufacturing techniques, the secret to producing the best irons in the golf equipment industry lies not simply with manufacturing less product. The commitment to being the very best is ingrained deep in the company culture and it all starts with Miura-san himself. Miura’s President, Adam Barr, explains it this way:

The company has developed a tradition of patient perfectionism that comes straight from Miura-san. He is a compelling mixture of pride and high standards in the same person. He is always proud of his work, but he always feels he can do even better, and that becomes his mission on the next attempt. Everyone at the factory and forge feels the same way.

The actual mechanics of tight tolerances and high production standards involves a patient design of processes, and an insistence that hands and machinery be capable of making the clubs to those standards. The hand processes, from polishing to grinding to paint fill and beyond, are taught and learned patiently and throughly. On the machine portion, the drill used to create the shaft receptacle in the hosels, for example, has to be able to create the same diameter hole every time, and it has to be straight vertically. Nothing less will do. Same with the steel selected for forging, so that the grain is uniform and fine. And the spin-forging machine, so that every joint is the same.

Finally, the fact that Miura has no ambitions in mass production enables us to literally keep an eye — a set of educated eyes — on every head. If it’s not right, it simply doesn’t leave the factory or forge.

What I found surprising is that, unlike bigger OEMs, Miura doesn’t provide its dealers with fitting carts, and despite a serious effort to expand their dealer network, there  are no plans to do so. As Mr. Barr told me, the decision boils down to giving Miura’s dealers and fitting experts the freedom to do what they do best.  He says:

“Rather than impose a system on them, we want to let them do what they know how to do — that is, work with their customers in a way that best helps a particular golfer’s game. If some dealer/fitters find it’s best to assemble their clubs in a cart, that’s fine. But there’s no need to mandate one. The Miura dealer/fitter can shaft up the demo clubs he thinks best for the golfer who comes to him for help. We believe a golf swing is indeed like a fingerprint: unique to its owner, and for that reason we don’t want to do anything that would ‘overstandardize’ the fitting process”.

In fact, Josh’s custom Miura cart is entirely his own creation. Using FAZ-Fit connectors to join head to shaft, the do-it-yourself approach allows Josh to stay up to date with the latest premium shaft offerings. He’s also able to offer multiple lengths and flexes (including hard and soft stepped options) for every shaft in his arsenal. It’s an added bit of precision that standard OEM carts simply don’t offer.

Though they don’t provide a cart, Josh’s relationship with Miura does allow him to offer his customers options he simply can’t with other brands. Through Miura, he can order a variety of non-standard options including custom head weights, special grinds, and from time to time a special finish. This flexibility allows Josh to dial in a truly custom setup for every golfer he fits for Miura.

Getting Fit

As unique as Miura irons are, the fitting process itself is anything but. There are no proprietary shaft analyzers, no motion capture systems, no diodes or sensors to connect to your body. Technology of course plays a role in the fitting process, but even that isn’t what you might expect. While I had anticipated being fit on a Flightscope launch monitor, Josh informed me that the New York Golf Center had recently replaced that system with a camera-based system from HD Golf. Curious about the change, I asked Josh to explain why he moved away from the popular system. He told me:

“Flightscope and Trackman are both great systems, but radar-based systems perform better outside where they can measure the entire flight of the ball. When used indoors the vertical launch, ballspeed, and backspin numbers provided by these systems are quite good, but I find that axis of rotation (curvature of the ballflight) and the club path/face angle measurements can be misleading and inaccurate. The HD system uses overhead cameras and gives me a better understanding of where a golfer is hitting the ball, not just how far and how high”.

Beyond that, Josh’s fitting process itself is almost matter of fact. It starts with a series of shots to help him determine if any adjustments to the standard length and lie are needed (they weren’t). What I would later piece together is that during that first 10 shots or so Josh was also sizing up my ability to make consistent contact with the center of the club face. This would be his first step in finding my perfect Miura match.

Blades vs. Cavity Backs – Which Should You Play?

When it comes to determining the right type of club for the golfer there are countless and often contrasting philosophies. Some would suggest that everyone should play blades as they will ultimately make you a better golfer. Other’s suggest that anyone with a handicap above 5 should be playing a large game-improvement iron. It’s a debate that has always fascinated me, and I was curious to learn how Josh’s thoughts on the subject compared to the Miura company line.

In the days leading up to the Miura fitting, I checked in with Adam Barr, and asked him to explain the Miura philosophy of blades vs. cavitybacks and who should play what. He provided me with examples of high handicap golfers playing Tournament Blades, and skilled players playing the new Passing Point 9003s. He further explained, “In a nutshell, our philosophy is, play what works for your game and gives you the most pleasure in golf. Think for yourself as a golfer (with the aid of competent fitting advice), instead of doing what custom dictates”.

The Miura philosophy is so simple, and yet, as golfers I think far too often we forgot that we play this game for pleasure, not the mental torture it often provides. From my end of things, as a guy who loves the clean lines and overall look of a blade, the Miura policy, was certainly what I wanted to hear, and brought me perilously close to an interpretation that I would have expressed to Josh as “Adam Barr says I should play blades”. What a child won’t say when he wants something, right?

Like any knowledgeable  fitter, Josh has his own opinions on the cavity-back vs. blade debate. He believes “custom fitting is all about matching clubs to a golfer’s particular tendencies”. While most manufacturers will target clubs to a segment of golfers based on handicap, Josh views handicap as a starting point only. He explains, “the number one factor in determining a style of head is consistency of center contact. Some high handicappers hit it in the middle of the club consistently but have terrible short games. Some low handicappers make marginal contact but have exquisite short games. I rely mostly on impact tape and efficiency ratings to help me determine if a design is forgiving enough for a particular player”.

Remember those first 10 or so shots I told you about. I perhaps made center contact on 5 of them (and that might be overstating it). I hadn’t realized it at the time, but after those first few swings, Josh had already made the assessment that I wasn’t an ideal candidate for Miura Tournament Blades (even if Adam Barr says I should play them).

Heads, Shafts, and Crunching the Numbers

The majority of my hour plus fitting was spent moving back between the new Passing Point 9003, the CB-202, and the CB-501. I assumed that the Passing Points would be the most popular in the lineup, and Josh confirmed that he’s been building plenty of  them since they came out earlier this year. In his assessment the newest iron in the Miura lineup offers a great balance of forgiveness and playability, but like anything else, isn’t a perfect fit for everyone.  Even with Passing Point’s popularity the New York Golf Center continues to sell a good mix of the entire Miura lineup.

As I tried each Miura head, what was impossible not to notice is the consistency at impact from game-improvement Passing Points, all the way to the Tournament Blades (more on that in a bit). With little to no difference in feel between the 4 Miura heads Josh had me hit (Passing Point 9003, CB-202, CB-501, and the Tournament Blades), the Miura customer is free to focus on finding an iron that suites the eye, and provides the performance his game requires. The outstanding Miura feel is never compromised.

Along the way we mixed and matched shafts including the KBS (standard Tour and C-Taper), Project X, and even the comparatively lighter Nippon Super Peening Blue. In most cases I tried multiple flexes to help Josh dial in my perfect fit. For his part Josh did an excellent job of keeping me calm and relaxed (even while I sprayed balls around his studio), which is an undervalued skill for a fitter.

Between each series of shots I took a break to give Josh the opportunity to crunch the data and review the numbers with me. While I was almost exclusively focused on distance and accuracy, Josh’s eyes were trained on launch angles, spin rates, and smash factors. We talked about ideal launch conditions and which combinations were spinning too much, and which were launching too high. He was also able to show me that my swingpath was actually pretty good, and more importantly, relatively consistent. Finding out that I wasn’t coming over the top like I have in the past was news (good news) to me. Josh further explained that much of my inconsistency stemmed from my hands being too quick or too slow. While this was hardly a swing lesson, Josh gave me a little something to feel good about, which definitely made the fitting less stressful.

After the first 3 or 4 clubs, though I was aware Josh had me retrying certain combinations,  I made an effort to stop paying attention to what combo I was actually hitting. Granted, I knew what I wanted (and wasn’t aware that Josh had already determined I wasn’t going to get it), but I had committed myself to not letting my personal bias toward any shaft or head lead me to try and influence the results. Swing, have fun, and try and learn a little something – that was the plan.

I maintained that commitment right up until Josh presented me with his final recommendation. In that moment I felt a a degree of disappointment stemming from the simple fact that he had made his determination without even giving me the opportunity to hit the Tournament Blades. Not one to go down without a fight, I quickly suggested that we give the blades a try…you know…just in case. He indulged my little blade fantasy and hooked me up with the appropriate shaft combination.

Standing over the ball with the Tournament Blade in my hand, I committed to hitting that club better than I’d ever hit any club in my life. I wanted the blades in my bag. I was going to influence the results, and those results were going to be awesome. I took my swings, and although I missed a couple, I was nearly certain I had striped a few balls solidly enough to convince Josh that he had gotten it wrong. As it turns out, I’m no Rickie Fowler (and Josh isn’t actually his uncle).

Damn the Numbers

As he did with every other combination I had hit previously, Josh reviewed the numbers with me, and while they weren’t that bad (that’s how I chose to remember it anyway), he explained that with the blades, my inability to make consistent center contact was causing the ball to launch too high and spin too much. Finding a diplomatic way to tell a golfer he sucks is another undervalued skill for a fitter, and Josh has mastered it.

You probably won’t be surprised to learn that, unable to argue the numbers with him, I found myself wondering how frequently Josh’s customers ignore his recommendations and buy what they want instead of what the data suggest will actually improve their game.

Josh tells me that his recommendations are rarely rejected. While he points out his customers are always free to buy whatever they want he adds:

“I also stress that I am extremely serious about my craft and my only goal is to help them play their best golf. I lay my reputation on the line with each fit and so it is more important for me to be successful than to sell something. People almost always respond to this type of reasoning and ultimately choose what they need as opposed to what they want”.

I’ve never been one for dead solid reasoning, but Josh has a point. Do I want to play blades, or do I want to play better? Since the “both”  option was off the table, a decision had to be made.

Now in my mind, the relationship between a club fitter and his client isn’t totally unlike that of a doctor and his patient. As with your doctor, if you’re not willing to trust your fitter’s recommendations, than what’s the point really? Of course, I also never want to be “that guy” either. I have tremendous respect for what Josh does and the level of commitment he puts into his work. When you take home a set of clubs from a reputable fitter, you become a trustee of his reputation. The last thing I want to do is put the wrong set of clubs (even a set of Miura Limited Edition Black Blades) into my bag, raise my scores, and tell anybody who asks that Josh Chervokas built my new Miuras and my handicap went up 5 strokes.

So in the end it wasn’t was so much a decision as it was a matter of showing a little faith in a guy who knows a lot more about club fitting than I do. I’ll save the details of what Josh is building for me for part 2, but I can tell you that a quick visit to his shop confirmed what I suspected all along.  Josh and I share a similar style when it comes to outfitting, and personalizing our clubs. We discussed some options, and came up with what you might call a non-traditional (pimped out) design plan. The clubs are being assembled as I write this, and while I haven’t seen them yet, I can say with almost certainty, that the level of quality and personalization I’m getting from the combination of a Miura heads and a skilled builder (one who’s a bit of a non-conformist) absolutely cannot be matched by any other OEM in the golf industry today.

Are Miura Irons Right for You?

Each and every time I’ve put a Miura iron into a MyGolfSpy tester’s hands, without exception that tester has said two things; “These are the best feeling irons I’ve ever hit”, and “…but they’re so expensive”. Now as Josh has already told us, cost is not a consideration for everyone. Many of his customers have the luxury of focusing exclusively on quality, and when quality alone is the issue, for Josh, the answer is always Miura. The thing is, Josh isn’t alone. He’s only one of well over 100 dealers in the US, and I suspect if you talked to any of those other Miura dealers in the country, perhaps the world, regardless of what other bands they fit for (and most fit for multiple brands) they’ll all tell you the same thing; No other manufacturer consistently delivers a product as technically perfect as Miura.

When you’re accustomed to seeing a press release anytime a given manufacture’s clubs finish anywhere in the top 10, it can be difficult to imagine that best irons in the world are being manufactured by a company who can’t say with any degree of certainty how many of its clubs are in play on Tour from one week to the next. That’s the thing about Miura. While they are naturally proud any time a PGA pro finds success with their clubs (that success includes two Masters (Olazabal ’91, Woosnam ’94), a US Open (Goosen 2001), and most recently the 2011 TPC Sawgrass (Choi)), the company seldom comments publicly on the rumored use of their clubs, and according to company President, Adam Barr, they are “just as happy when an unknown club champion, junior, or recreational player gets satisfaction from our clubs”.

So do I think you should be playing Miura? Absolutely, but I also understand that just like with a set of irons, no argument I can make is going to work for everybody. If all you see is the sticker price ($1400 to over $2000) then Miura may never be right for you. If you can comprehend that in this day and age true quality and craftsmanship are the rarest of commodities, then perhaps you will appreciate that cost is not the same as value and that perfection is priceless.

For me the best argument is perhaps the most basic. Since the first time I picked up a Miura iron I have never for a moment contemplated playing anything else. In that respect I am a reformed equipment junkie. It wasn’t long ago I was like many of you. Each year I’d put something new in my hoping the change would bring some sort of revelation to my golf game. Even if logic and reason suggested it would do more harm than good, I wanted the latest and greatest. I think as golf equipment connoisseurs we’re on an almost constant quest to find the last set of irons we’ll ever need. In Miura I’ve found something better. I’ve found the last set of irons I’ll ever want, and you can’t put a price tag on that.

Coming in Part 2

In PART 2 I’ll show you the irons that Josh built for me, and explain why working with a skilled builder is the only way to ensure you actually get what you’re paying for.

For more info on Miura Golf and its products visit their website, or find them on Facebook.

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Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony is the Editor of MyGolfSpy where his job is to bring fresh and innovative content to the site. In addition to his editorial responsibilities, he was instrumental in developing MyGolfSpy's data-driven testing methodologies and continues to sift through our data to find the insights that can help improve your game. Tony believes that golfers deserve to know what's real and what's not, and that means MyGolfSpy's equipment coverage must extend beyond the so-called facts as dictated by the same companies that created them. Most of all Tony believes in performance over hype and #PowerToThePlayer.

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey





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      steve wasson

      9 years ago

      I got fit in south Florida and knowing nothing about Miura irons, I was handed 20-odd 6 irons during the fitting and struck each one a few times, never knowing what I was hitting. They varied greatly but none had that WOW factor until I hit a Miura CB-501. It was a total blind-test and the club felt very different in a good way and the ball flight was nice and low. I repeated the shot a half dozen times, some pure, some not so much. I was sold! I flipped up the club to see what I was hitting and I was shocked to see a club that I’d never seen before or even heard of. “What’s Miura?” The fitter said, “You want the good news or the bad news?” The bad news….the cost and the wait. The good news…..he explained the whole Miura story and told me I’d never want for another set of irons because these are the best made. I’m sold.

      Reply

      radioshark

      12 years ago

      i hit since kids, 70% straight shooter on irons (30% f*cked up :D). Driving range since teenage, just 3 years earlier on a golf course… im at 23, bad at short game, dont have clubs, borrowed, i use X14 sh, grand monarch mizzy & Cleveland quadpro. Want to be more serious. If i did fitting these miura’s? are these CB-501 for me? or i need more forgiving ones? Adams CB3 or A12Os?

      Reply

      Jon Robert

      12 years ago

      The internet is filled with overnight sensation photos and videos taken on the worlds crappiest cameras. OVERNIGHT SENSATIONS No one cares about the equipment just the results.

      Likewise I would rater be a shot making wizzard with a crappy set of rummage sale clubs than a person who thought they could buy success by spending a fortune on clubs.

      I do buy top of the line clubs becuase I can buy replacements, matching wedges etc on eBay. For example one of the best putters I have ever owned and should not have gotten rid of was a Lynx Big Cat. I have only seen 2 of them in the flesh. And then 25 years apart. This rarity is not a good plan for actual use. It is like haveing the rarest car for everyday commuting. Not a good plan.

      Miura? No thanks I’ll play Callaway, Mizuno, Taylor Made etc.

      Reply

      James Burford

      12 years ago

      I believe Miura’s quality control is the deciding factor. Undoubtedly, if you have some pull, you can get a set of OEM clubs that will be perfect. I have no such pull and therefore little hope in getting a set. Even having a Miura dealer build a set has it’s risks, but I do believe the result won’t have anything to do with the heads. Recently re-shafted a set I had built 4 years ago. The shaft fit in the hosel was absolutely perfect and the new shafts suit me better. I think it unlikely that I could have done this as well with OEM heads.

      Reply

      Tom

      12 years ago

      Silly. If you want blades, then get blades. If you commit to them, you will eventually make consistent contact. Did genius Josh not tell you this? Genius Josh has no idea what your game will be two months from now, let alone two years from now. Don’t buy so far into a fitting. Use that noggin of yours too. I didn’t hit my mp-33s as well two years ago as I do today. If you enjoy playing a particular iron, then play it! Don’t let some genius club fitter tell you that because of the math you are better with cavity backs. HE DOESNT KNOW. Geez, man.

      Reply

      Thomas

      12 years ago

      Just got “analyzed” (fitting just doesn’t do what I experienced justice) by a Miura dealer whose intention wasn’t even to sell me a set of clubs. I was there to see what I could do to my irons to “dial them in” if you will. After 4 hours, what we found out was amazing/astonishing and lends to this article.

      My Mizuno irons that came to me in 1/2″ longer and 1.5 degrees upright were ridiculously wrong. Some of the irons were 3.5 degrees up and some were less than a degree up. And to boot we found out that at 1/2″ longer, the swingweights were around D2 which means the headweights on the irons were extremely light. The plan was to reshaft my irons into the KBS C-Taper 7.0’s and move them back to standard length. The problem was that to do this, we would have had to slap a ton of lead tape on the head so I wasn’t swinging a C8 iron. I was astonished that the quality control at Mizuno was that shoddy. And that is when we started to talk about Miura.

      I hit the tournament blade with the original satin 7.0 Project X (before True Temper came in and screwed up their quality control) in a swing weigth of D4…and it was awesome. The ball flight, trajectory, the feel…unmatched (and this comes from someone who has spoken very highly of Mizuno). My shot variances were within three yards…not 10 yards. And to be fair, it is the matching of ALL factors (head, shaft, length and lie) and not just the heads that determine the result. But this is the first time that I have analyzed and not just put on a lie board with some face tape. The time spent and care given was worth the money that will be spent.

      To get the feeling of clarity and to have the world of golf turned on its head is surprising…but more so to a golf professional who thought he knew things.

      My set is being built as we speak and I won’t have to worry about if one club is off by 2 degrees or the swingweight is off by a couple of points. Each club will be at D4 and the look won’t be ruined by lead tape. Quality control stinks and worker’s pride in their product has been lost in this country. Blame whomever you want (China and Wal-Mart come to mind), but I can tell you as a golf professional (who gets equipment for free), that I will never, ever play another set of irons from the “big-boys” again.

      This was a great read by the way!

      Reply

      Dillinger

      12 years ago

      Hello,
      This gives me a chance to talk about Miura and to thank My Golf Spy. A few months ago I spoke to staff here after reading the Miura 501 review and at that time I scheduled a fitting with my local Miura Dealer/Fitter. I went to my fitting and I will say the most extensive fitting I have ever had and I have been to a Titleist Tour fitting. I have always played blades and at the fitting I was fit to the 501’s. They didnt try to sell me the more expensive limited tour blade i went there for. I was fit yo what was best for me. After 3 weeks my new irons arrived and this is where the magic happened. I was a 6 handicap and now 3 months later a 3 . My brother also was a 8 and now a 6 but he played half as much as I have. I have become an excellent ball striker. Having clubs that the exact lift and lie they are supposed to be and having a iron that feels so nice have helped me to no end. Also the grind of these is magical , turf interaction is always just right. If I need to hit down on a shot to trap the ball more than usually the sole still glides through the turf. It’s hard to explain this in words. Everything about these irons are pure perfection. They even look great.
      Don’t let a few hundred bucks difference in price keep you from having the best set of irons you will ever own. Also next year Miura will not have 3 more sets of the same iron style and tell you that
      What you have now is obsolete. Last year I would have told you I would never play anything but Titleist. The big OEM’s sell good irons but Miura sells Greatness.

      Reply

      The GreekGrind

      12 years ago

      A friend of mine has played the 202 CBs for 3 plus years now and you couldn’t get him to even look at any other irons he’s so happy with them. So far they’ve not found their way into my bag, but I’m not sure how much longer I can hold out. Sooner or later I know I’m going to be playing Miura.

      Reply

      Rob

      12 years ago

      Miura’s are hands down the best irons I have ever played. I am currently using Miura Series 1957 Small Blades. They give me the exact control I need in hitting greens. Got mine with TT Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X-100’s and Iomic Grips from Fairway Golf (mgs sponsor).

      Reply

      Jimgolf

      12 years ago

      Hey Peter interesting cars you mention as I just sold my 911 turbo cab and got new Shelby! Must be a Miura thing!

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Ron, hindsight being what it is, it’s safe to say that I also won’t ever buy another Scotty, unless changes are made, which as Finalist points out, is highly unlikely…take care…Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Reply

      ron

      12 years ago

      Rich J111, I would never EVER EVER buy a retail scotty putter if it was 100 bucks they are the cheapest quality garbage u can buy not to mention the weights on the bottom are cheap tin I heard from a good source, I had the good camerons from the late 90s early 2000s,thoses were quality, pro platinum , the mill spec, the black ones with the copper inserts, CLASSICS. 3 YEARS AGO i tried a retail cameron and brought it back the next day it was so bad, it was like putting with a piece of hard plastic and will never look at those mass produced pieces of junk again and they want 300 fr em I geuss theres an ass for every toilett seat out there. Changing the subject about the vr pro blades the other guy mentioned I had to borrow my freinds vr 11 pros blade irons this summer and he is one of the gys that played the pga tour and he got them and fitted at the nike oven this past winter and they were AWSOME feeling clubs he s400 dyn gold tour issues in em and he is one of the rare gys on the nike staff that can get them fitted at the oven, however how they compare to the retail ones I dont know he said the retail heads might be different.

      Reply

      Finalist

      12 years ago

      Those Nikes do get a lot of respect from people who have hit a wide variety.

      Reply

      rob.c

      12 years ago

      great article, can’t wait to see your new stick’s my man, let me tell you something i know, i lived in japan for 9 month’s when i was in the marine’s, and all luxury sporting equipment they make is high, that’s just the way it is over there, perfection is their god, any doubt’s ?, look at tourspec.com, being lefty i have played every type of forged iron from everybody that makes them on this planet and i can honestly tell you no matter who make’s them, if they’re not properly fitted and spec’d to you, guess what, their probably gonna suck, currently i play 2011 nike vr2 pro blades and their the best iron’s i have felt in my hand’s since the wilson’s from the 60’s and 70’s. thank’s and keep up the good work, rob.c.

      Reply

      Finalist

      12 years ago

      Richard, Circle Ts are made in a factory just like all the other mass produced Camerons. The SoCal factory does the milling and the finishing work for many putter makers. Cameron’s shop just does glue, stamps, and paint fill. The factory is the same place several putter makers get work done. It’s the finishing that separates real putter crafting from marketing ideas. I only know of a small group of putter makers where the owner is the person doing the important work. The others use hired labor from around the world.

      It’s amazing to see a talented putter maker grind and mill head right in front of you. It’s like old world craft where they live and breathe it and can tell the difference in a couple grams of weight just by how long they polish it. Cameron wishes he had that shop, but his shareholder would never allow it. He is forced to mass produce whether he wants to or not.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Finalist, thanx much for the info as I had no idea..All I know is that I expected more..Maybe it’s me..Have a good Holiday season…Fairways & Greens 4ever…..

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Ron, as I stated above, I was amazed when those two Titleist irons were off, & when the pro(a Titleist staffer) said that that was great, otherwise they were “perfect” on both lie & loft, I couldn’t believe that this was the “norm”…I am 51yo, started playing when I was 7yo, & currently play to a 3.2, & I don’t consider myself naive or an idiot, because I thought that while these OEMs don’t follow Dr. Deming’s 14 Points of Management for quality, they at least could get a club out the door where, as Spy T said, “27 neans 27, not 26 or 28″…Silly me…Another quick story: I had a grip changed on my Scotty Circle T(the only one I own & will ever own)…The asst. brought it out to me & showed me the top of the club & the top was cut uneven & jagged, not symmetrical & smooth..it was jagged enough that if you rubbed it against your shirt, it would rip or snag the material…Correct me if I’m wrong, though I am under the belief that the Circle Ts are hand made..Even if they are not, would it be too much to ask to make an even cut & buff/grind the points off for an $1800 -2400 putter?..I found the same on my “retail” Kombi S, though my Fastback was smooth & even..1 outa 3…And those are $300 putters, although the California line is going to be $350 when the new ones hit the pro shops…I know it doesn’t matter to Cameron/Titleist, yet I’ve purchased my last Scotty…Spy T has a point when he said that they’ll keep producing these kind of products until the public’s buying practices force them to raise the bar, much like the automotive industry(US vs. Japan, Germany, etc.)..I’m skeptical…Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      Reply

      ron

      13 years ago

      Frank I sure hope those were typing problems and not spelling holy crap man I thought my typing was bad lol, Anywayit is a shame these oems cant get these things straightend out it is a joke when u think about it, its like if they cant get the specs right whats the point of buying em, when u got them at the store have them checked there and if that happens tell em to send em back and keep doing it until they get it right , its as simple as that. But noooo people need to open the box up in their own home so they can admire taking the rappers off and seeing a brand new shiny club in the privacy of their own home and stare at them fr an hour and a half, rolling my eyes.

      Reply

      Frank

      13 years ago

      Hi all,

      Agree witht he loft and lie issues. I played the callaway forged x16 pro series for years. took some tiem off playing sparingly and then decide to go for a fitting iwth a local pro. we decide, hitting the 7 iron that I needed a 1 degree flat adjsutment. to my dismay, he called me the following day saying that one club matched the setting i needed and the toher 5 clubs needed to be bent 2 degrees one direction of or the other. AMAZING! I bought these shipped fromthe manufacturer thorugh my proshop discount and the local rep when i worked inthe industry. LAst yea rI made the mistake of going togolf galaxy to get fitted and god was that the worst experience on my life. I read last years article a little too late but ended up finding a PA guy who fit mirua’s we went on for about an hour or two hitting balls onthe range with his launch monitor and such using the mizuno optimizer to limit the shaft selections. different heads with different shafts and bam CB 501 with KBS tour stiff. it was good to be outside and see what the well struck shot did other than his numbers when he told me the ball was high and land off by about 10 yards compared to the “right fit” combination you can tell the differece. love th eclubs inthe middle of some changes and lessons so I am hoping by next year I can gaint he full value of the miura not that I don’t alreay just don’t play as much due ot the fine tuning…

      great article can’t wait for part 2 might take a train up the road to see this guy Josh and pick his brain

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Once again, I very much appreciate all of you who took the time to read the article, and have really enjoyed the ensuing spirited debate (even from the guys who don’t necessarily agree with me).

      As for part 2, I’m still waiting for the clubs to arrive (it’s killing me). I was hoping to have them Friday, then Monday, and then yesterday, so crossing my fingers for today. Once they’re in we’re probably looking at a few days before part 2 is ready to go.

      Reply

      Florian

      13 years ago

      instead of a shelby going with our Miura’s i prefer the ultimate match: Lamborgini Miura with my Miura Blades. Awaiting part 2 as Finalist.

      Reply

      Finalist

      13 years ago

      When is part two coming? Can’t wait.

      Reply

      Peter

      13 years ago

      Ron:
      I guess you will never buy a Porsche or Shelby Mustang or other exotic cars even if you win the Big lottery prize because it is just like any car with 2 doors and an engine.
      How sad.
      I bought 6 clubs (6-gw) with IOmic grips and KBS shafts, love them. (My fitter can sell them as individuals club at $215 per). I am enjoying them tremendously. Love the feel. Going to give my R7s to anyone who wants them.
      Tried the R11, felt like hitting balls with a wad of cotton.
      Christmas gift to myself: Miura 60 degree wedge.
      I am nowhere good enough to buy blades but the new PP9003 are just my level.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      Merry Christmas!!…You’ve got the right idea..Enjoy the clubs..BTW, a Shelby’s my Miura, I just gotta get lucky on a straight pick…Fairways & Greens 4ever…..

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      Mike, while you definately are entitled to your opinion, the fact that you are a two time state amateur champion(state & years?) doesn’t give your opinion anymore weight or credibility than a 25 handicapper(especially if he can spell!)…And quite frankly, your question/statement regarding Miuras sold on eBay is so ludicrous as far as being a quality barometer, that I think that you should stick to winning state championships, where feel trumps thinking(and spelling!)..The best to ya…Fairways & Greens 4ever……

      Reply

      Jimgolf

      13 years ago

      I was the guy who bought the newest hottest clubs every year and sometimes more than one set. I read about Miura irons and searched for a club fitter. Fortunately I found Tim Mosel golf in denville nj who has been fitting in this little shop for 20 years. His dad was a PGA tour pro and Tim is truly an expert in his field. I have been golfing for 25 years, my handicap has been as low as a 5 but these days I am a 9 due to some recent back issues. I have had every brand and model out there, yes I am (was) a golf club addict! I am not anymore. To answer some of the negative comments such as I hit my friends miuras and they were not that great, I can totally appreciate that and here is why. When I first got my clubs I didn’t like them at all, kept hitting the ball left, off the toe, just not solid. My fitter tweaked them 3 times and when we finally got it perfect it was like hitting gold. My scores have come down 6 shots per round and last Sunday I had my first hole in one at 182 yards. The best part however is what thy feel like when you hit them, it’s the most incredible feeling I ever had hitting a ball. I can assure you in one shot that makes you smile from ear to ear you will justify your decision to spend the extra money. Personally I saved money as I am done buying clubs, but for those you who have hit them and they were not made specifically for you then it’s safe to say they probably are no better then off the rack clubs. This was the best golf equipment decision I ever made and the fact they look like a piece of art just adds to the allure. If your in nj give Tim a call and go discuss a fitting and see if this may work for you.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      Jimgolf, great comment..well written…Continued success to ya…fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Reply

      Finalist

      13 years ago

      That’s why I look for customization, personal service and crafted quality. Just as this article illustrates very well if you are going to pay a lot at least get high quality, professionally crafted products. We all know what brands offer that.

      Reply

      ron

      13 years ago

      Finalist I couldnt agree more about these OEMS and their BS advertising, I think and Im sure Im not alone that all golf equipment is WAYYYYYYY over priced, whats it cost these oems about 40 50 bucks to have these ti drivers made only to throw in these cheap flexy shafts which has to cost them no more than 12 bucks to make and turn around and ask 400 for this is just a prime example, taylormade is by far the worst with their specs and driver faces caving in, very sad .

      Reply

      Finalist

      13 years ago

      Ron, people don’t need to be warned about Muira. It’s the companies that spend the majority of their money on advertising that you should be looking at exposing. Muira and Scratch can’t afford to produce bad or over priced clubs. They can’t fall back on millions of dollars worth of marketing like Taylormade, Titliest etc. Muira and Scratch are priced to according to the market value. The big major OEMs ae the ones who have massive brain washing ad campaigns that allow them to over price. They have to produce for shareholders – not customers.

      Reply

      Justin

      13 years ago

      “The big major OEMs ae the ones who have massive brain washing ad campaigns that allow them to over price. They have to produce for shareholders – not customers”. Thumbs up!

      Reply

      Finalist

      13 years ago

      Scratch irons are too soft? Having played and hit just about everything I’ve never thought that. I did find AP2s to be an overly muted iron that did not produce knock downs well. If I were to go out and buy a new set of Mizzunos or Titliest 712 or whatever premo line and then have them correctly swingweighted, and completely speced out I’d end up spending what it costs to just start off with the Muiras.
      Ron, I too have played with some top players regularly. A top pro from Eastern Europe and a former PGA pro who won the LA Open. They both know A LOT less about equipment than a huge amount of people who post and are interested in golf forums. It’s their job to play and win. They get fed equipment. They don’t have the time nor desire to read about golf equipment when all they did all day long was practice. I’m constantly telling them about new stuff or the specs on this or that… They just don’t care because they have their gear and it works for them, but they often don’t know a whole lot about it. Some equipment is overated, some is shockingly overated, and some is underated. If you want performance speced out to your swing as well as it can be it’s going to cost you.

      Reply

      ron

      13 years ago

      iM just trying to let people out there know before they read posts like Ts and get a hard on for miuras and then go half cocked and order miuras without trying em out and then after they drain every cent out of the bank for them there like I spent all that money for something that performs no different than my pings or whatever major brand they have thats all. Im not trying to cause miura fans pain in any way, if I am Im sorry but Im just trying to tell people how it is. Not many people out there can get opinions from top players and mini tour players like I was lucky enough to to describe this stuff thats all , if any thing Im just trying to help people. Believe me I understand how this game can be enjoyed from more ways than 1 . How about the people who just bought a new set of irons only to turn on the computer and read Ts column and realize that the once admired irons they just bought are no longer quality irons only miuras are, I dont know about you but I would look at the clubs I just bought and try to find any reason to think their no good , well thats what people like that would think, thats pain lol. I just happend to have extra time on my hands this week only thats why Im taking alittle interest in this thread, I would love to get on those golfwrx threads but every time I try I keep running into dead ends, I dont know if it cost money or what to get on them but I will admit Im so computer illiterate lol I just cant figure out how. However I will mention about the scratch irons alot of those gys I talked with told me not to buy those either, they said there way to soft and mentioned you get no feed back like hitting a mushroom but they mentioned their wedges are nice though.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      ron, I think Finalist said it best: people don’t really need to be warned, especially about Miura…Really, if you look @ the top of the line forged “players” clubs(CBs & MBs) from any major OEM, regardless of the name, they are all fine clubs, spec hiccups aside…I myself play Mizuno & my father, who was a +2 & is presently a 5.2(he’s 71 yo) thinks the Mizuno “buttery feel” is a myth & much adoo about nothing…He played Staff FG-17s until ’96 & has been a Titleist MB player since…God Bless him & those like him who think Mizuno’s overated…I just know that for me, they feel good..For me, they work…Also, as Spy T stated, whether someone plays the big tour, the little tour, or any in between, they do not have the corner on the market regarding “feel” & their opinions on it…I can’t speak for anyone else, though I’m sure there are many, like myself, who do play out of clubs with former tour pros & top amateurs as members, & in my case as swat partners, it’s just that we do not name drop as a way of making a point, because quite frankly, if I can’t get my point across with out name dropping & quoting nameless “experts,” whose opinions are all subjective to begin with, then I really have no business being in the discussion, and my opinion should most certainly be suspect..I believe that most people, including those in this discussion, are brighter than you are giving them credit for…I don’t believe that anyone is going out and buying a set of Miuras based soley on T’s article, without hitting them first..I’m not sure, & this is a guess, though I would wager that probably 90-95% of their irons are fitted, at least for the first set..T would probably know that number…If his article spurred someone to go through the fitting process, then they would make their decision based on their experience in that fitting process, regardless of T’s opinions…I don’t know of many people who “go half cocked” & order a $699.00 set of irons(pick your OEM), much less a $1400-3000 set of Miuras..AS far as “how it is,” again, I think that most people are bright enough to figure that out for themselves, especially the person who would go through the fitting process & then purchase a set of Miuras…Again, I’m guessing, though I would think that many, many more people buy a set of $599-799 irons (pick your OEM) “blindly”(with out any real fitting) based on some stupid magazine list than have ever “blindly” purchased Miuras..Just my humble opinion…Have a good one…Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      Reply

      Finalist

      13 years ago

      ..It’s also a hobby, a passion, an escape, a physical activity. What I love about golf is how many ways there are to enjoy it. I can’t play or practice 24/7, but golf allows me to enjoy it much more than just playing the game. I can read about it, tInker with gear, check out styles, study it, etc etc. Smaller companies that offer more service, more options and personalized attention help create the total experience. For some they only want to experience playing in tournaments and lpwering their score. Others want to experience that and all the other aspects. When I’m too old to swing a club and play long courses I’ll still enjoy all the other aspects such as messing with customized gear. I see many of those old timer types daily at my home course.

      Reply

      ron

      13 years ago

      To Rich Jacobs II and a few others I am pretty aware of the spelling , its my fast typing that needs work not really my spelling, anyway I understand your point of view and it to has valid points but Ive played in tournaments everywhere and I also love to look at their equipment like alot of you and not one player carries miuras , now if they did have atleast something something that would help ball flight consistancy or whatever it may be Im positive atleast one player would carry them . In all the top tournaments I played in I must of peaked into atleast 100 bags from these scratch players and there is no sign of miura. I know what yr going to say now , that has nothing to do with it its the quality aspect but you know what if your a collector thats one thing , but we are just trying to get the thing in the hole thats all and not just in golf lol if you know what I mean lol, but all kidding aside golf is a sport not an art gallery.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      ron, I understand…I’d like to hit hit em just to see how the compare to my mizzys..Regarding your typing, I’m really in know position to say anything because I type with two-three fingers and am painfully slow..The best to ya…Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      see what happens when my spell check is off(know)…lol…oh well….

      Tim

      13 years ago

      There are different levels of quality within the same steel. Different certifying bodies have specific tolerances for constituent elements, as well as hardness.

      Reply

      Finalist

      13 years ago

      Regarding Scratch’s tolerances:
      GolfspyT, you must be only be comparing Muiras to Scratch’s retail line which costs less and has the three sole grind options along with aesthetic choices included? How about the Don White Tour Department line and not to mention the Flatbacks? There’s nothing that Muria offers that gives that amount of custom work with the same tolerances as Muira. Don grinds irons as complete sets, so each head matches the customer’s order. With Flatbacks you can basically invent a new iron down to the center of gravity location. While Muiras have tight tolerances I’m too familiar with being able to spec a custom Muira grind.

      Interesting results for the SPB. What shafts did you favor before this fitting? I love DG S300, but wouldn’t mind a slightly lower flight. I’ve hit the SPB in X flex and thought they felt a whole lot like S300s. I’ve read and heard several reviews that SPB play half a flex soft which explains why I liked the x flex. I also noticed the respective websites for each shaft lists the weight and the SPB are about 5 grams lighter. Did you demo equalvalent flexs to your gamer or go up a flex for the demo SPBs?
      Sorry mostly rambling, but I’m looking for whatever info I can get. Thanks!

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      You’re talking about Scratch’s Tour Custom. At $2500 a set, they absolutely should be hand inspected, dead perfect. Don White is an artist for sure. As I said in my previous post, some of the stuff I’ve seen from Scratch’s custom department is sick…probably the best looking set of irons we saw at the PGA Show back in January.

      My current gamers (while awaiting my new Miuras) have KBS Tour X-Flex soft-stepped once. Those were built based on the recommendation from Mizuno’s shaft optimizer (which is an absolutely incredible piece of technology). The 2nd recommendation was Project X. I hit PX in both 6.0 and 6.5 as part of the fitting process. I have played Dynamic Gold in the past as well. While not true for every shaft Josh had me hit, for many he had me hit at least 2 flexes. I didn’t feel any weight difference between the SPBs and the other (slightly heavier shafts). Once you get into the sub-100 gram range the weight differences become more noticeable.

      I think in general far too many get wrapped up in the “what’s the best shaft debate”. Each of us generate unique launch characteristics and what’s best for me, is unlikely to be what’s best for most everybody else. One of our testers hits the cover off the ball with Nippon 1050s, but he’d likely have trouble keeping the ball in the air with my clubs. When I hit his clubs the ball launches too high, spins to much, and often balloons.

      Don’t get me wrong…I definitely knew what shafts I “wanted”, but I never told Josh what those were and elected to go 100% with is recommendations.

      Reply

      ron

      13 years ago

      Golfspy T I dont want u to think Im this bad gy cuzz Im not infact I think you sound like a nice intelligent guy , I def respect your opinion I think its good to have guys like u to put up these golf club posts ,they are always fun to read in my opinion,alot better than reading a school or college book thats for sure. But to charge the public that kind of money for a set of irons regardless of tight specs is an insult to the human intelligence , I know its a business but what the hell to they think their trying to sell here gold I mean come on.

      Reply

      Howard

      13 years ago

      Ron, your arguments and points may be taken at least somewhat seriously if you just used spell-check before you pressed submit. You’re killing me.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      Howard, the most accurate comment/reply on this whole page!!!…The best to ya..Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      ron, instead of spending so much time on this site, wasting Spy T’s time & patience & crucifying people w/your comments(yet I must admit that you have the rare ability to cause pain & amusement simultaneously)might I suggest that you spend just a little more time reading those school or college books that you speak of, especially if one of them happens to be a grammar book…And if you don’t have access to spellcheck, you can download dictionary.com for free…Just a thought…Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Nippon was only one of many shafts I tried, and accounted for the lowest percentage of my swings during the fitting (didn’t take long to figure out it wasn’t a good fit).

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Mike – By all means play what you enjoy, and what works for you. You’re certainly entitled to an opinion.

      That said, your ebay argument is complete nonsense. There are clubs from every manufacturer on eBay, and I would argue that based on percentage of sale, a much lower percentage of Miura than most. Seriously…eBay? By your logic every golf club manufacturer must be producing garbage because you can find them all on eBay.

      What irons do you play? Maybe I’ll pick myself up a set…from eBay.

      Reply

      Jon Robert

      12 years ago

      Ditto!

      Reply

      Finalist

      13 years ago

      This is a great write up. Great looking clubs, etc. Can’t wait for part 2!

      In my mind Muira is right up there with Scratch except Scratch has a better neck design for me. The Muira’s neck is very long and people say this moves the sweetspot towards the heel.

      I’m most curious about your thoughts on Nippon super peening blues versus the other shafts.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Scratch makes a good product, but they certainly don’t manufacture to the same tolerances. That said, considering theirs is a factory assembled product, the level of customization available is nothing short of phenomenal. They’re doing things their own way, and I’d love to see them continue to grow and succeed.

      Not to ruin the surprise too much, the Super Peening Blues weren’t a good fit for me. In my opinion, Nippon makes a very smooth feeling shaft, but even in the Blue I had trajectory problems (the lighter weight Nippons balloon on me like almost nothing else). The results were better than I would expect from the 950s or 1050s, but still far from ideal. I have always been, and continue to be a high trajectory, high spin player, so I’m always looking for something that brings the ball down, and spins a bit less.

      Reply

      carl

      13 years ago

      I have to agree wth Ron I tried them myself and didnt think much of them other than the specs will be tight I knew that but to me they felt exactly like the razr forged set to be honest with you. I had my pga pro tell me not to spend that kind of money for them , they are definetely not worth more than 800 .

      Reply

      Waldo

      13 years ago

      Golf Spy T,
      Great article, thanks for the story on Miura.

      There seems to be some anger directed your way which I would advise you to continue to ignore. As you you clearly stated, not everyone will see the value in a club being produced to such tight tolerances and the comensurate higher price that accompanies it. Some folks believe taking an OEM set and having the local club fitter fine tune the loft, lie, swing weight, have them add custom shafts with tighter specs etc. is the way to go. Nothing wrong with either approach in my view. The great thing about golf is there are so many different ways to play, and more recently, so many ways to have equipment built for one’s self. I play Titleist AP2s, Mizuno T-Zoid Pro’s before that. I just had my local club guy bend the lies 2 degrees flat to fit me.

      Please keep up the good work and don’t let the angry posters get you down.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Waldo – I appreciate the encouragement. I don’t expect everyone to agree with every word I write, although what’s getting lost in all of the back and forth is that the heart of my argument is that Miura manufacturers to much tighter specs than anyone else in the industry. While for whatever reason some feel compelled to try and trash the Miura brand, no one is contradicting the my actual point.

      While it’s absolutely preposterous that Ron (or anyone else) would suggest that somehow a lower handicap makes one more of an authority on feel (feel is completely subjective, how its perceived and measured is unique to everyone, regardless of ability level), I certainly appreciate the he and others would take the time to share their opinions on the subject.

      Everyone is allowed to disagree with us, and so long as everyone remains polite, everyone’s voice gets to be heard. MyGolfSpy is unique like that.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      Spy T, it’s not getting lost…If the reader is not “blind” & has an IQ north of 100, they get your point(s)…You can’t educate those who are’nt open to learning…Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      ron

      13 years ago

      T To respond to your last post I just received I think when it comes to specs being correct you are def right abt miura , I only whish YOU can get that kind of quality control with oem irons but its not financially feacable fr em besides most people cant tell the difference, Frank Viola from ace of clubs personnaly told me he did Baddaleys irons and they had 6 grahms of lead weight in the hosel and told me their not perfect in the vans either because alot of those things are not necessary and if gys like Baddaly arent to concerned wth it why on gods green earth would the average golfer be and even if you wanted everything to be perfect then just have them adjusted at your local golf place no big deal, alot cheaper doing that than spending 1400 on miuras only because their tight tolerces, BIG DEAL. Instead of worrying abt who forges what and where , it doesnt matter there all the same in the end a bunch of hammered peices of metal. Worry more on getting better thats what good players are more concerned wth not this boloney.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      Dude, #1, ya gotta get spell check…You bring up some valid points, though reading your posts is mentally exhausting(although some who know me would say that does’nt take much)…What you are arguing is something that cannot be proven or disproven…I’m not talking about having a set of clubs perfectly, 100% spec’d correctly..That’s “easily” done..I’m not saying it’s economical or practical(it obviously is not), yet if a large OEM decided it was necessary for their survival, it could/would happen…Any time you are speaking of the “ultimate” luxury items(ex, Rolls Royce, Patek Philippe(watches), etc.), while the standards for these are obviously higher, the argument could be made that the quality difference between them and other products(ex, Mercedes Benz, Rolex, etc) of lesser prestige, though still in luxury class(similar to Miura vs. Titleist or Mizuno) is not worth the difference..As I’ve stated previously, I’ve played Mizzys for 26 yrs & am perfectly happy with them..I have no doubt that in Spy T’s eyes(& many thousands of others, many, many pros included), the difference is well worth the cost/price of a set of Miura between a set of Mizuno & Miura, much less a “lesser” OEM…I happen to wear a Patek, yet I will accept that a Timex Iron Man Triathlon watch($29.99-79.99) keeps more accurate time over a period of time…so what..I bought it because I feel that it is the finest time piece that one could put on their wrist..That & the “story” in it’s history from the first screw being inserted to the point it is shipped..That means something to me..To you, it may not mean as much or it may mean nothing..You could provide me with all of the data that you want, all of it accurate, showing me that Patek is not worth the price/cost difference, yet to me(& thousands of others), it is worth the difference…So be it..I will probably never own a set of Miura irons, though I respect the decision of those who do…I wouldn’t care how many pros you know or what their opinions were, & I would not care if you produced a letter signed by Tiger, Jack, Arnold, Lee & the Shark & it was hand delivered by Ben(I know, I know, but work with me here), it wouldn’t matter..To Spy T & thousands of others, including more than a few pros, Miura are hands down, the best…And for those owners, they are 100% correct…as you yourself said, golf is 95% mental…So Bro, relax on trying to convert someone who will not be converted…We understand that you will never buy a set of Miuras & I’m sure SpyT can accept that…So let’s all agree to dissagree…The best to ya…Fairways & Greens 4ever…..

      Reply

      ron

      13 years ago

      Golf T while I did read your post it was interesting while I was shaking my head saying to myself I DONT GET IT. Miura dealer came to my home club in hoping that my club pro would carry em so he tried em out and after 4 good swings he said to the dealer WHY THE HELL WOULD I CHARGE MY PLAYING CUSTOMERS THAT KIND OF MONEY FR THIS SHEET, THEIR HORRIBLE . Then he tossed the 202 model back to the dealer and asked him if he was out of his mind, the dealer then said ok then thank u fr your time and left and this club pro of mine qualified fr sectionals in Jersey fr the 2010 Open qualifing so he along with me know what good feeling clubs feel like , ping s56 irons fr example , mizuno mp33 ben hogan apex, and your not even close to my level of feel and playing and your going to tell me whats better.

      Reply

      JON M

      13 years ago

      To each his own. I would compare miura’s to toyota’s and lexus’s. Are the cars that much different? Not too much, but the quality of a lexus and the attention to detail is much a lot greater than their “brother’s”.

      The one thing that I think makes Miura that much more expensive is their quality control. To an experience club builder the better quality control makes building a custom soooooooo much easier. The important thing about all custom clubs (TM, Titleist, Miura, etc) is that the set can only be as good as the club-maker.

      FYI there are a couple other players on tour that are using Miura branded clubs that aren’t on staff.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      For what it’s worth(probably not much…lol) I would compare Miura to Rolls Royce while comparing Mizuno(which I play) & Titleist to Mercedes(which I drive) & Lexus…Just my humble opinion…Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Reply

      ron

      13 years ago

      Golfspy T Im not here to bash miura there fine clubs but come on just abt every player on tour now who dont contracted iron contracts are using titleist irons and ping with one only one exception of KJ . Now dont u think if miura was this majical great club all these gys would be using them thats common sense and im sure they all know abt them. I know alot of these gys through other golfers i know and Im not going to ruin freindships by using their names in public settings like this its not worth it especially over something silly like iron debates. One gy was paired with Greg Norman in final round of 1989 US open and he told me straight out their not worth what they charge. Another thing is taylormade at the time did not have a quality iron out there fr there tour gys like they do today thats most likely the reason they asked miura for some help not to mention that miura does make a quality club, but to thing they perform better than pings , titleist mizuno is assinine and out right stupid because they simply DONT. You feel this way abt miura because Miura dealers brain wash everyone into beleving there the second comming to comprehend the extra cash fr em so naturally the human mind is going to make them feel great, after all gol is 95 percent mental. I wanted to very much so feel that they were this special performing and feeling club myself so I wouldnt second geuss myself into spending all this money fr em but unfortunetly it didnt come close to what I hoped I was going to encounter.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Looking past the quality of the components for a moment (I suspect me must agree to disagree there), there isn’t a reasonable argument to made that a “custom” set of big OEM clubs will arrive at your doorstep with the same finished quality as a set of Miuras custom assembled by a reputable fitter. Big OEMs (including Titleist and Mizuno – probably two of the 3 best) simply can’t match Miura’s tolerances, and a good builders tolerances are likely to be tighter still.

      Good luck getting shafts that plot properly for flex. We’ve seen this first hand time and time again. Most golf companies rely on the shaft companies to do the sorting and what you end up with is tolerance upon tolerance. Only by dumb luck would you get a truly frequency matched set in a factory assembled set of irons. A builder with a decent inventory can do a much better job putting you in a set with consistent flex.

      You can’t step away from the fact that part of the Miura cost is tied up in the builders time and materials, and skill. The guys you know on tour…it’s safe to say they got the full tour van experience. The average consumer can’t get that from a big OEM. With Miura he can come much closer.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      GolfSpy T, great article…I, like I’m sure many others, was aware of Miura and the almost mystical aura that surrounds the company…You brought it into perspective, and for me @ least, gave me some factors to consider in my next iron purchase, regardless of who I go with..And I admire your professionalism in responding to ron…You’re a better man than I…lol….Keep up the great work…Fairways & Greens 4ever…..

      JON M

      13 years ago

      Miura forgings are a bit different than other manufactures. First, they use a higher quality steel (more expensive). The hosel and head are actually two different forged pieces that are “spin welded” together. Miura clubs are also hand ground. As a club builder they are a dream to work with because the tolerances are so tight.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Jon – Glad you mentioned the spin welded hosel. I keep meaning to bring it up, but every time I come back here to respond to a comment it totally escapes me. The hosel is certainly one of the more unique aspects of the Miura manufacturing process. The hand grinding is of course important, as is the human element of the forging process itself.

      Reply

      Kevin

      13 years ago

      I think we’re in danger here of throwing around vague buzzwords just like the big OEMs do. Can any offer insight on the technologies mentioned?

      -What kind of steel is Miura’s “higher quality” steel? Their website doesn’t give any material details other than “low-carbon” or “mild”.
      -What is spin-welding? Why is it better than a single-piece forging? I can see potential advantages of grind the hosel and body separately, but welding processes generally add variability.
      -How is their hand grinding any different than the rest of the industry?
      -And to Golf Spy T, what is the human element of forging? Does Miura use a hammer in anvil instead of automated forging dies?

      I don’t mean to be a stickler, but when we use these terms without discussing the tangible benefits, it’s like paying homage to Forged Composites…and no one wants to do that :)

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Fair questions, Kevin.

      Here’s the the links for the Miura Forging/Manufacturing video that briefly addresses some of your questions. http://youtu.be/Kdconj9Y_1Q The human element; the determination of exactly how much force should be applied on the last strike is also mentioned in the video.

      I’ll see what I can do about getting more specifics for you.

      Justin

      13 years ago

      Most forgings, at least from a few years ago, were made as two seperate pieces. The hosel was welded onto the head. It’s in Dynacraft’s “Modern Guide to Clubfitting”… so it isn’t like what Miura’s doing is much different from others, or some process only they do.

      mygolfspy

      13 years ago

      Yes Justin you are correct. Spin welding has been used for over 25 years.

      Steve H

      13 years ago

      OMG…. GORGEOUS Clubs have got me drooling… nice article with some very interesting insights on the clubfitting process used by New York Golf Center. I will be waiting with bated breath for Part 2, and your experiences with the new sticks on the course!! Congrats on the newest additions to your arsenal, and hope they last you for a long time.

      Reply

      ron

      13 years ago

      But the bottom line is with miura ALOT of top players and I know bunch of em tell me that with miura u are not getting something special you are in fac paying fr the NAME and the fact that you know their specs will be right on, is that worth 1400 I SERIUOSLY DONT THINK SO. after I played a round wth em and then afterwrds found out all this important imfo on them I was NO WONDER I COULDNT FEEL ANYTHING SPECIAL IN EM NO WONDER.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Ron – I’m enjoyed your musings and the every increasing number of people you claim to know who will swear that Miura is nothing special, over-priced, etc. Do any of these so-called professionals and insiders have names?

      Maybe Miura’s don’t feel special to you. Feel is as subjective as it gets, so I’ll give you that. What I simply can’t get past is this: If indeed there is nothing unique about Miura – they offer no better feel, no better performance than anything else – then why is it that other golf companies, companies who actually do pay professional golfers to bag their clubs, on several occasions have contracted Miura to produce clubs for their pros?

      In the case of Retief Goosen, he wasn’t even told by his equipment sponsor that he was actually playing Miura.

      If there’s no difference (except the name), why would one of the biggest names in golf contract Miura to make an entire series of clubs for them?

      Believe what you will, and by all means play what gives you the most satisfaction.

      Reply

      ron

      13 years ago

      Another interesting thing I learned from a very well known person who is a professional fitter and knows clubs like and how they were forged , how long it takes to forge heads how they choose the billets all that great iron stuff we all love to talk about well he said something that really shocked me , he told me that all oem heads cost these oems roughly 12 bucks a head to forge including stamping and the miuras cost 18 to 20 a head only because of final touches of making sure the specs and weight of heads are dead spec. He said miuras are not speacially forged better than say titleist callaway or mizuno just more attention to detail like gtting the specs perfect thats ALL. By the way he also is a miura dealer and carries every single oem club out there . So there u have it straight from the horses mouth, I geuss the golf club business is a pretty dam good business to be in if u ask me.

      Reply

      Tim S

      13 years ago

      That is interesting. Does that take into account the cost of secondary processes (plate and paint), in process qc, scrap rate, cost of annual machine maintenance amortized per club head produced, interest paid on leveraged inventory, packaging, etc.?
      Sorry, I’m a manufacturing guy, and often times people have somewhat incomplete ideas on actual cost. Without knowing how much anyone is paid, or how much it costs just to turn on the lights, I can tell you with absolute certainty that the true “cost” to Miura per head is more than $20. Furthermore I would venture to say that the forging cost per club for OEM’s (perhaps excluding Mizuno) is closer to a quarter of Miura’s per club, simply because the cost of manufacturing in China is exponentially less than manufacturing in Japan. I’m not trying to be argumentative. Just adding some perspective enhancements. Quality manufacturing is not cheap.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      Great comment!…Valid points…It’s just damn, we’re talking about a sport & golf clubs(granted, world wide, it’s a multi-billion dollar busines), not rocket ship schematics or Craniotomy protocols…Christ, I’m on overload when I’ve got to choose between a 3i, 5w or 2h for my bag…I wish I could go back to my youth, when all I thought about was what I was going to get @ the “shack” off of #9…Fairways & Greens 4ever…….

      Christian B

      13 years ago

      Ron has a point. You could assemble a set of Maltby or Golfsmith heads with the same high-end components at the same tight tolerances and the end result isn’t going to yield me better scores. You could argue that I might be slightly more consistent and maybe enhanced feel.

      There is no doubt Miura is a respectable company and makes a high quality product. However, there is no way any set of forged irons should cost $3,000.00 unless they offer some type of technology that is going to drastically improve my game. The fact that any set can be customized to those tolerances doesn’t make Miura clubs the best bang for your buck.

      Great article, informative, detailed, honest but there is no value in a 3,000.00 set of irons even if you have the disposable income.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Christian – A couple of points need to be clarified. First, the 3K price tag is for a highly customized set of limited edition clubs (3-PW) + 3 wedges (11 clubs total). A standard set of Miura irons starts at $1400. Let’s not use $3000 as our baseline for comparison.

      Second point, You can certainly take any head and get the lofts and lie correct, however; I’d venture to say that your odds of getting the head weights on Maltby heads to be identical is unlikely, and you can probably forget entirely about them being perfectly balanced.

      It’s probably true that the average golfer isn’t going to notice these details, but they do matter, and I think most will appreciate the craftsmanship and attention to detail that’s apart of every Miura head. Whether or not they appreciate it enough to spend the extra money is admittedly an entirely different question.

      Finally, while many may not agree with my assessment, I certainly appreciate all of you who have taken the time to read through the article.

      Reply

      Justin

      13 years ago

      They matter only if you think it’ll matter and you let little things like that bother you. You’re right, though: the great majority wouldn’t notice a 1g difference- that includes its effect on performance. $1400 is STILL a lot for a set of clubs, especially when the determining factor of performance is physics, not hype or covert advertising.

      Let’s put it another way: if they’re so great, how come there’s only one LH option? I don’t care what is said about the LH population, if something is truly great and so game-changingly awesome it has to be available to EVERYONE. Since there’s nothing earth-shattering about the difference between blades and cavity backs, or between forged and cast, there’s no grounds for a complaint. It’s kind of the reason why Bridgestone can completely deny lefties (yet charge the same as companies that do offer LH gear… go figure LOL)- it doesn’t matter from a truly performance standpoint. You’re paying for a name only.

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Arguing that the lack of availability of left-handed products is somehow proof that Miura does not make a great product is just slightly less preposterous than the eBay argument that was made here a couple of days back.

      The reality is that every manufacturer in every industry has to play by the rules of supply and demand. If there’s not market enough to justify the manufacturing costs, there’s no business justification to make the product. Because Miura’s market share is smaller that most golf companies, they do feel the pinch a bit more.

      That said…EVERY manufacturer of consequence in the golf industry has a subset of product that is only available to right-handed golfers.

      Regarding some of your other points…whether a gram matters, or whether it matters that a club head isn’t perfectly balanced, or if it ships from the manufacturer a degree or two out of spec; a friend of mine reading this thread sent me this reply:

      “The fact that no one seems to put any real value on “quality” is endemic to fundamental problems in this country”.

      So many of these comments have basically proven my initial point. Why is everyone so willing to except an imperfect product? What if you paid for a dozen eggs and only got 11? Would you be satisfied paying the full price for less .98 gallons of gas?

      Are you so willing to accept “close enough” with other things in your lives? Golf clubs aren’t life and death by any means, but it’s a shame that craftsmanship and attention to detail are falling by the wayside.

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      Spy T, your questions regarding quality & peoples’ reactions/responses(as stated in this post) are a shame though your friend’s observation on the state of our country is sooooo accurate… So I am not as surprised as I am discouraged, because bro, it seems like we’re going in the wrong direction & we’re heading there @ a pretty good clip…The very best to ya with your new sticks…I look forward to your future posts on your experiences with them..Fairways & Greens 4ever…..

      ron

      13 years ago

      Well Im a scratch golfer and i recently played a round with miura I badly wanted to feel something special in them so i can fork over the large coin fr em, but to be honest with all of you they wwere nothing to brag about and I acually thought the ap2 irons felt ALOT better not saying the miuras are bad but there is certainly nothing special abt them . I personally know a hooters tour player who afterward told me he wouldnt play em if he got them fr free.

      Reply

      Joe

      13 years ago

      Excellent write up! I’ve been thinking about getting a set myself, but am unsure if I’m good enough to do so.

      Reply

      Peter

      13 years ago

      Just got a set of Miura and I did ask myself the exact question.
      I got my own answer as follows:
      There are a lot of drivers who are not good enough to drive a Porsche but they bought one anyway.
      I bought PP9003. Agreed that I could not hit the CB501 consistently enough, but I am satisfied that unless I improve tremendously, this set of Miura will be the last set of irons I will ever need.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      13 years ago

      Kevin – Not everything we do is going to be a full review or a lab article.

      Regarding quality checks, swingweights etc. We did a great deal of that under a previous incarnation of our review system. What we quickly learned is that no big OEM was consistently hitting their numbers for lie, loft, or even length. Most adhere to a +/- 1 degree tolerance. Very often at least one head in the set (by our measurement) would fall outside of those stated tolerances. For some less expensive brands the numbers were worse. Based on stated tolerances alone, no big OEM matches Miura. The only company I’ve ever seen that has stated tolerances as tight is, believe it or not, Solus. For what it’s worth, when I wrote the review of the Miura CB-501s last year we did check each iron for lie/loft. They were spot on perfect. That cannot be said of any other iron set we tested (Titleist AP2s included).

      With respect to shaft flex…I’ll cover that more in part 2, but the short version is that when you’re dealing with big oems it’s a mess…a huge mess. Shaft manufacturers have their tolerances, and most golf companies don’t check each individual shaft. What often happens is you’ll have some shafts at each end of the tolerance range and as a result the set itself will actually span 2 or more flexes. With Miura you work with a builder who can (and does) take the time to frequency match your shafts, match swing weights, and make any necessary individual lie/loft adjustments.

      While It’s almost certainly true that not every niche brand is Miura, or even on the level with big OEMs, based on their own words, and the insight from fitters who work with Miura products day in and day out, I’m confident they offer a higher quality product.

      Reply

      Kevin

      13 years ago

      Fair enough, T. I appreciate the extra insight!

      Reply

      BR

      13 years ago

      I appreciate this write up on Muira and the readers questions/responses. My strategy over the years is to go to my local OEM retailer/supplier and have them order precisely what I need/want direct from the manufacturer. Not every reader has the instruments to measure their clubs specs as myself and others do but I check the irons upon receipt. If they are off, I complain and have the manufacturer resend a proper iron with proper specs that I paid for. So I have a few companies that I have confidence in and several that I would not recommend. Most OEM retailers develop a feel for this and usually offer their thoughts/experience with certain manufacturers products. This is just my process/opinion when it comes to irons I purchase. It is rare when I choose to buy off the rack because of the variability in tolerances (IE +/- 1-2 deg, etc) and I try to limit my off the rack purchases to wedges/putters (which I can easily adjust if necessary). But I know I should from time to time go to a quality fitting professional that has a balance of technology (launch monitors, etc) and an trained eye to my swing characteristics.

      Reply

      Justin

      13 years ago

      Any competent, independent fitter will do what was described in the article. Not just with Miura’s, but any other component brand, as well.

      Kevin

      13 years ago

      Good narrative and interesting insight into a completely under-reported brand!

      HOWEVER, before we pass off as fact that the niche brands can have substantially higher quality than the big OEMs, we need to see some comparisons such as:

      -Quality checks on swingweight, length, loft, lie, shaft specs, etc…
      -Comparative testing on a swing robot showing launch properties and dispersions for pure hits and mishits
      -Player testing

      As an engineer I always love some good charts and tables, but I don’t think it’s too much to ask that MGS try to back up some of these outrageous claims before publishing. Do we really know that the quality-espousing PINGs and Titliests of the world are delivering lower quality products than advertised???

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      13 years ago

      Titleist story: I play Mizuno(and have for 26 years) yet the opportunity(& price) to pick up a set of Titleist 710 MBs(PX 6.5 Flighted shafts) that were used for three rounds was too good to pass up…I play the MP-68s with the lofts strengthened 1′, so I had my pro do the same to the MBs, as their standard lofts are the same as the 68s(the original owner did not do any adjustments)…I was stunned when he told me that he “only” had to do 6 of the 8 irons(3-PW), as two were already set @ my requested lofts(4i, 23’& 7i, 34′)…I have owned 9 sets of Mizzys & have had my lofts adjusted on 5 of those sets(40 irons) and only twice were the lofts off, when both were 1′ stronger than stated..The pro(who is on the Titleist staff) was not surprised & basically said that I was naive, and that regardless of the manufacturer, people would be amazed if they actually had their specs checked at the discrepancies that they would find….He then told me of the +/-1′ “allowable” variance that the OEMs(including Titleist & Mizuno) adhere to(so my four irons were not off, they were acceptable…lol..sorta) & that the fact that the irons were “only” off 1′ and that this occured with “only” two irons, I should be happy.. while this wasn’t as shattering as learning that there is no Santa, It did made me appreciate MGS & the work they do much more…I think that Calling their claims “outrageous” might be a tad strong..This site is not a scientific journal nor are their articles/reviews clinical studies, though I think if you compare their body of work with any other competitor’s(regardless of media type), you’ll find that they give the most objective, unbiased reviews in the industry…The other point that I find amusing is when comments/suggestions are made to MGS regarding how to make their review/evaluations more objective, scientific & “legitimate”…I agree that many of these sugestions would indeed add to the reviews…The only problem with many of these suggestions are they do not take into account that this site is not supported by a multi-million dollar corporation or endowment…Launch properties & dispersions?..Jesus, I pine for the days when wind & pin placement were all I had to think about..The best to ya..Greens & Fairways 4ever….

      Reply

      JBones

      13 years ago

      OMG, those black blades give me a woody (black and orange are my favorite colors). Oh yeah, the article was pretty good too.

      Reply

      Golfspy Dave

      13 years ago

      Great article. Can’t wait to read part 2.

      Reply

      Damon

      13 years ago

      Great write-up! I can’t wait to see what you ordered and how they look (and most importantly, how they produce on the course). If I start saving $75/month, I can get a set in about 2 years!

      Reply

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