The Pace of Play Conundrum: Does Golf REALLY Want To Fix It?
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The Pace of Play Conundrum: Does Golf REALLY Want To Fix It?

The Pace of Play Conundrum: Does Golf REALLY Want To Fix It?
“It’s so crowded; nobody goes there anymore.” – Yogi Berra, on a popular New York City nightspot

Narratives often take on a life of their own, even when they conflict with one another. For example:

Narrative No. 1: Golf has a serious pace of play problem.

Narrative No. 2: Golf is dying, rounds are dwindling, and participation is falling.

Narrative 1 is supposedly a major contributor to Narrative 2.

See a conflict?

It’s so crowded; nobody goes there anymore…

These narratives get repeated so often people accept both as undisputed fact. What no one seems to consider is the fact that these two points appear to be mutually exclusive.

For both to be true we need a third narrative: Golf courses are closing faster than participation is falling, leading to jammed tee sheets and overcrowded courses. If our third narrative is true – and a USGA study suggests it might not be – then is slow play a problem anyone truly wants to solve?

The real issue, however, isn’t whether anyone truly wants to solve the issue of slow play. It’s much simpler.

It’s that no one truly knows how to solve the problem.

Five Hours From Hell

Is there anything worse than a 5-hour round? I mean, besides a 6-hour round?

Ask any golfer and he’ll recite chapter and verse who’s to blame for slow play: drunk idiots with no golf etiquette, and morons with ball retrievers; nitwits lining up putts like it’s the 72nd hole at Augusta, and J.B. Holmes-clones deliberating each shot like it’s a cure for cancer; clowns playing from the wrong tees, and hackers who spend too much time in the woods; dipshit walkers, dipshit cart riders, greedy course owners with 8-minute tee times, and I’m sure you could add a dozen or so more without breaking a sweat.

But what no one can agree on is a solution. Why?

Because there isn’t one. Well, not one solution, anyway.

Don’t get us wrong; there are solutions – some technology-based, some course setup/logistics-based, and some golfer awareness-based. But all the technology, setup/logistics, and golfer awareness in the world will help neither a jot nor a tittle unless everyone involved in playing the game takes a good, hard look in the mirror.

A Surprising Survey

Several weeks ago, MyGolfSpy ran a survey in our Community Forum (you can check it out here). We received nearly 650 responses – certainly not definitive by any stretch, but it does give some insight into the opinions of avid golfers who frequent golf forums.

Some of the highlights:

  • 49% of the respondents say slow play keeps them from playing certain courses, but only on certain days; only 2% said it keeps them from playing at all.
  • 82% say slow play negatively impacts their enjoyment of the game.
  • 52% say the biggest cause of slow play is idiots with no golf etiquette, while only 8% cite course setup issues and only 14% cite not enough space between tee times.
  • 27% say they’d pay a premium for a guaranteed 4-hour or less round.
  • And most intriguing, 67% say golf courses themselves do not see slow play as a problem that really needs to be solved.

That last one may or may not come as a shock, but when two-thirds of your paying customers think you don’t want to solve what they perceive to be a problem, you have a problem.

“This is something the industry needs to tackle,” says Bodo Seiber, CEO of TagMarshal, a company with a technology-based approach to improving pace of play. “There’s no consistency. If I’m playing in 4:20 this Saturday and 5:50 next Saturday, how am I going to sell this to my wife and kids who expect me home for lunch? Consistency is the key.”

The Tech Solution

MyGolfSpy first experienced TagMarshal at a Media Day event during the PGA Show in January. Each cart was equipped with an iPhone-looking contraption that served as a GPS, but also let each cart – and a central monitor in the clubhouse – know where each group stood in relation both to the field and to the expected pace of play.

“The truth is a lot of pace of play issues happen because players are not aware or because courses do not manage the variables they can control,” Seiber tells MGS. “We give the course tools to inform players that they’re okay and on track, or that they’re falling slightly behind. Players can now self-manage, and the course can send a message to players if there’s an issue.”

Our experience bore that out. At one point we noticed we were 5 minutes behind and, without saying a word to one another, we picked up the pace. Soon we were five minutes ahead of pace and were playing up the backside of the group in front of us – who were not playing slow – so we adjusted our pace accordingly. At no time did we feel as though we were rushing – it was simply a matter of conscious awareness.

“Often players are just not aware,” says Seiber. “What happens is when a group loses a ball on a couple of holes it now impacts the players behind them. They just have to be mindful and say, ‘we’re 6 minutes behind and actively delaying the group behind us.’ When players have awareness, they can self-manage better.”

Marshal vs. Player’s Assistant

TagMarshal has several options for courses, from the GPS-based system to a classic tag with no screen attached to either a cart for riders or a bag for walkers. If there’s a problem, a player’s assistant (TagMarshal’s preferred term for Marshal or Ranger) can help them along. It’s non-confrontational because it’s just data and the group really can’t argue it’s the fault of the group in front of them.

“No one wins in that situation,” says Seiber. “The marshal gets frustrated and ends up not adding any value. If the player’s assistants have information, they can support players better, and they don’t have to go around looking for problems.”

One of the keys to making it all work, says Seiber, is making sure players are properly prepped by the starter before teeing off.

“Our really good operators brief players ahead of time,” he says. “What’s your handicap? How often do you play? Let’s figure out how big of a challenge our course is going to be for you today and suggest appropriate tees.”

Seiber says if golfers insist on playing from the back tees, the course lets the golfers give it a try, adding they’ll be keeping tabs and if the group finds itself falling behind, they might want to move up. “If players know they’re being monitored, it’s like the call that’s being recorded for your benefit,” he says. “It’s about making sure flow moves. It’s not about you; it’s about the groups in front of you.”

“Players are more self-aware, and no one wants to be that group.”

To date, TagMarshal has tracked over seven million rounds in the US, Canada, and Europe, and courses have seen, on average, a 15-minute pace of play improvement. While that doesn’t sound like much, Seiber says the biggest benefit to courses has been creating a consistent and predictable pace of play by eliminating the really bad days, specifically the Saturday-Sunday 6-hour Bataan Death March.

“That could be 50 to 60 days in an eight-month season. Courses will lose revenue and lose happiness with players. What you’ve really done is you’ve balanced the course, so those really bad days don’t happen.”

Setup Issues

MyGolfSpy’s survey respondents say slow play is primarily the fault of slow golfers, aka the other guy. Only 7% cite course setup (high rough, narrow fairways, fast greens), 8% cite poor use of 2-person carts, 18% cite playing from the wrong tees, 14% cite short tee-time intervals, and only 1% cite long/difficult Par 3’s.

The USGA says – and TagMarshal’s data verifies – Par 3’s are a critical pace of play bottleneck, especially a long or tough Par 3 early in the round.

The problem is math. If it takes 11-minutes to play the hole and you have 8-minute tee time intervals, someone is waiting. And courses that start with a difficult hole followed by a tough Par 3 get even further behind. That’s a built-in problem, but it can be mitigated to a degree by prep from the starter.

“It comes down to the staff briefing players,” says Seiber. “‘Welcome to our course, it’s yours for the day and by the way, here are some of our feature holes and here’s how to play them.’ It’s player awareness, and the better we prepare them, the more there’s success.”

TagMarshal has also found cart-path only is a pace-of-play killer – which is no surprise – as is cart control, that annoying technology that stops the cart in an area where the golfer isn’t supposed to be. Sometimes tech can get in the way.

In addition, walking clubs that play like a traditional links-style course can be played much more quickly than a course with carts. TagMarshal is hoping to work with courses that feature single-rider vehicles, which would be the first comprehensive study on whether the single-rider option really is a viable pace-of-play solution or merely a fun way to play golf.

The USGA also says high rough, fast greens (11 or higher on the stimp meter) and difficult hole locations all slow down play, as do driveable Par 4’s and reachable Par 5’s. They’re fun, but when you’re waiting for the green to clear the group behind you is waiting, too.

The USGA has several setup recommendations for courses:

  • Wider fairways – 40 yards or wider recommended in the anticipated landing zone.
  • Shorter rough, particularly on the right-hand side of dogleg right holes.
  • Smarter weekend setup in general – cut the rough, move tees forward (except on short Par 4’s and reachable Par 5’s – move those back to make them unreachable) and provide easier hole locations for the most crowded days.

Those are things the golfer has no control over – it’s all up to the course. For golfers, the USGA has a series of videos that help golfers use common sense to control what they can control: be ready to when it’s your turn, bring extra clubs with you if it’s cart path only, improve your short game (keep it on the ground when you can), leave your bag or pushcart near the path to the next hole, and use your rangefinder to get distances while others are playing.

In addition, when disaster strikes make use of Equitable Stroke Control – pick up when you’ve hit your limit, and beginners should agree on a double par-max rule. The USGA also still promotes Tee It Forward, saying 56% play faster and 85% report enjoying the game more when moving up.

Pace Matters

The USGA says 82% of you feel course conditions are critical to your enjoyment of the game: no one likes dog tracks. However, 74% of you say pace of play is also critical to your enjoyment. What’s more, the USGA survey suggests you’re willing to pay up to 14.5% more for your greens fees for a consistent and predictable pace of play. If you’re under 45, the results suggest you’d be willing to pay up to 25% more, ostensibly to keep the spouse and kids happy. Golfers over 60 would pay up to 8% more, but 48% in that age group say they wouldn’t pay anything more.

The MyGolfSpy survey says 63% of the respondents would not pay more for a guaranteed four-hour round, believing this is something courses should be providing anyway. Only 27% of those who responded say they’d be willing to pay any kind of a premium. Our survey did not break down responses by age.

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Another interesting factoid from the USGA study shows Greens Fees and Tee Time intervals are correlated – the greater the tee time interval, the higher the greens fee. You’d think spreading out tee time intervals would take a bite out of course revenues, but the USGA found exactly the opposite. Going from an 8-minute to a 10-minute tee time interval would reduce tee time inventory by 20%, which the USGA says is fine since it found average peak utilization – or how much of that inventory is actually sold – is a tick below 70% overall anyway.

An example in the USGA study says if an average $50 green fee is raised by 9% (which, based on their survey, was deemed acceptable to a wide range of golfers) to $54.50, when combined with 10-minute tee time intervals, it could result in a net gain to a course’s bottom line of $71,000 annually, with no additional costs incurred and an improved pace of play.

Time vs. Money

Time and money are interchangeable – you can always save more of one by spending more of the other. But what would happen if your local overcrowded, 6-hour round muni raised rates by 9%? Hell, what if it raised weekend greens fees by 25%, or even 50%? How many golfers would say the hell with this, I’ll play somewhere else?

10%? 20%?

If a course raised greens fees and lost some customers, three things would happen: pace of play would improve, the course would have happier customers and it would have the same, if not more, revenue. One problem: fewer golfers means a drop in food, beverage and Pro Shop sales, which is where money is made.

So again, does anyone really want to solve the pace of play problem?

“A lot of courses don’t want to engage the pace of play problem because they think it will reflect badly on them and their management,” says Seiber. “And a lot of courses don’t think they have a pace of play problem and hence don’t need to do anything about it.”

“Some courses would rather stick their heads in the sand and say we don’t have a problem rather than look at the opportunity and say if we manage the flow better, if we do the on-course experience better, then we have a benefit and a revenue opportunity.” – Bodo Seiber, CEO, TagMarshal

On the other hand, if the pace of play improved dramatically, would golfers have time after the round for a burger and a beer or two? Would they spend some cash in the Pro Shop? Would they enjoy the experience more and not have to face the music when they get home?

How many articles, Tweets or posts do you see about a single rider vehicle or other doodads, ideas or technology, asking if this is the answer to slow play? The truth is there is no one single solution, no one magic wand that will cure pace of play concerns. Pace of play can certainly be improved, but only if golfers and golf courses look in the mirror.

All golfers – even if you’re convinced it’s those other chowderheads and not you – need to be more self-aware and use common sense, and understand there’s a difference between golfer behavior that truly slows down pace of play and golfer behavior that merely pisses us off but doesn’t affect pace of play. In addition, golf courses need to embrace all methods of improving pace of play open to them – including technology, course logistics (including tee time intervals), course set up, and properly prepping golfers before they tee off as to the expectations of the day.

Improving pace of play isn’t about rushing through the round – it’s about a predictable and smooth-flowing round. It’s far more enjoyable to have a consistent pace with little to no waiting.

And whether that total time is 3:30 or 4:10, if it’s predictable and consistent no matter when you play, it makes for happy golfers and happy golf spouses.

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John Barba

John Barba

John Barba

John is an aging, yet avid golfer, writer, 6-point-something handicapper living back home in New England after a 22-year exile in Minnesota. He loves telling stories, writing about golf and golf travel, and enjoys classic golf equipment. “The only thing a golfer needs is more daylight.” - BenHogan

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      bryan vasko

      3 years ago

      Many factors affect slow play that people don’t realize. 1) golf courses need to improve drastically on yardage markers. where golfers can visually notice them. The peg system every 50 yrds up to 225 on the edge of fairways and small inground slabs marked every 25 yds up to 225 yds in the fairways . I use a range finder and I do admit that I second guess myself on the distance and check again. Sorry, I am taking to much time. My bad..
      2) Each hole should have a proper description on the teebox itself just like the pocket pros you would find in the pro shop.
      3 No mixed cocktails on beverage carts (imagine wating for ceasers, bloody marys.) Only beer and non alcoholic drinks. (Wait until the 19th hole for your cocktails)
      As for us the golfers? To much chit chat. This can be done on the golf carts or walking up to your shot. Lost ball in the woods? 15 to 30 sec rule. Cant find it? drop one. People think that if a pro can take the time to look then why can’t I? Remember the pros have thousands of people on the ccourse and millions of viewers on TV to see where there ball is. Bite the bullet.
      My 2 cents worth.

      Reply

      Fred

      5 years ago

      I work at a golf course, part-time as a ranger, and the number one complaint is slow-play. I found it’s usually one or two groups out of about 250 golfers on a given day. We have GPS systems, send messages to the group(s) behind pace but until a ranger comes up they don’t pay attention to it. I do talk to the group, behind, and ask in a friendly manner to pick up the pace and most will. On a few exceptions where they don’t I have told them to pick up and move move to the next tee and then they start moving. I have heard comments like we’re trying to enjoy the round and I said so are the 30 other groups behind you and they move. I hear a lot of thank you. Sometimes I hear we’re a twosome and we’re on pace for a foursome. I said yes but your holding up the one domes two domes and threesomes behind not close the gap in front of you. I believe if groups close the gap in front of them, don’t worry about what is behind them, and no matter the size of your group the course will move somewhere between 2-2hrs10 minutes at 99% of the golf courses. Enforce this, maybe lose a couple of groups, but the Pete off sheet will be full all day.

      Reply

      Jack

      5 years ago

      American golfers are duffers. They don’t play by the rules – gimmi putts, mulligan drives, drop a ball instead of return to the tee, etc. And they play really really really slowww rounds like their slowness helps them to shoot a 95 instead of a 96. Basically they suck. Our rule at our course in Scotland was 2 hours, 45 minutes walking. A much shorter course but you could finish in a few hours. Not sure what the mental problem is here in the US but I’ve stopped playing because of it. Unfortunate.

      Reply

      Mark Liquorman

      5 years ago

      Well, if I had to play in a kilt with a cold wind coming off the North Sea, I’d play pretty quickly also!

      Reply

      James T

      5 years ago

      Funny! Especially if there’re no underpants under there!

      Schindiddy

      5 years ago

      In my area (east of LA), most courses gave up a while ago and don’t even have marshalls anymore. I used to work at golf courses, and I don’t think pace of play is really that big of a deal to golf course managers in my area. We didn’t really care unless someone complained, and there really wasn’t much we could do except hope the slow groups wanted to speed up after being asked to. I really like the suggestions to make the course easier and also make players more aware of pace of play. When I was younger I remember people waving players up on par 3’s, but that seems to have gone by the wayside in my area. People act like they haven’t played in a year (and they might not have), and just have trouble playing the course quickly. There are some lack of “ready-golf” issues, but I think most people are just too terrible at the game to play much faster. They are playing about as fast as they can and need help from the course managers to make things as easy as possible. Therefore, I love the idea of longer par 5s, and no drivable par 4s. There are just too many levels of players that mix together and want and need different things. But like article hints at in the title, most people are the slow people and don’t really need the pace sped up, they are having a hard time keeping up as it is. Plus, they weren’t taught pace of play ettiquite at an early age, so mostly have no idea. Its hard to get the pace up for the few good players that can move, when most weekend players are just trying to enjoy the game once every few months and hit balls every few weeks. They just aren’t good enough to play holes out, and make them quicker. No one wants to pick up every other hole (though most should). I don’t really have an answer either, I’m being pretty descriptive, but what we need are prescriptive ideas and solutions.

      Reply

      John A

      5 years ago

      I’ve been invited several time to my friends walking only golf club with a full Saturday tee sheet. Never have had to wait on the group in front of us. To me the answer is simple, put the staff bag, ball retriever and all the other junk we carry in the garage. Grab a good pair of walking shoes and a carry bag and enjoy golf as it was meant to be.

      Reply

      MemphisAce

      5 years ago

      Do not allow walkers till after 3pm on the weekends and 1pm on weekdays
      that will go along way to help
      sure people want to be healthy but not when it makes a 5hr round

      and stop trying to be the next tiger woods and hit the ball when ready

      Reply

      Scoe

      5 years ago

      Most players have no idea how to be efficient with time. They just need to pay attention and learn. Don’t talk when it it is your turn. Don’t talk to me when it’s my turn. Be ready when it is your turn. Simple stuff but 30 seconds wasted per hole per player is is 36 minutes added to a round. That’s about normal. I don’t “hurry”. I walk. I’m methodical. But also very fast because I’m always ready… unless you are telling me a story during my pre-shot routine. Every second you keep yakking is a second slower for me.

      Reply

      Scoe

      5 years ago

      And BTW, there is plenty of time for conversation, especially if you are walking. Just do it when no one is hitting or getting ready to hit.

      Reply

      James T

      5 years ago

      SCOE, that is funny… “Don’t talk when it is your turn”. I often play with a good friend who does just that… gets on the tee and commences to tell a long tale. Wonderful man. And in his spare time he is a course marshal!!!

      Reply

      James T

      5 years ago

      I’m working on my tall tales and fishing stories (same thing?) to tell to my foursome buddies while we wait on the tee for the fairway to clear. If you can’t beat ’em, join ’em.

      Reply

      Mark in LOL

      5 years ago

      I’m guessing you were probably being a little sarcastic, but in fact that kind of camaraderie is what a lot of us are looking for. Not that it should interfere with the round, but I want that interaction with the other guys. For those that don’t, maybe they should put a sign on their backs saying “I’m playing golf, don’t talk to me!”.

      Reply

      James T

      5 years ago

      Hey Mark… in the past that would have been sarcastic. But I’ve been laid up for a month with golfer’s elbow and miss the camaraderie on the course with friends. Came to the realization there is no solution to slow play so I am content to adding an hour to my round. If I want to play fast I play alone in the early morning and do 9 holes in 1.5 hours… while hitting extra balls… practice shots.

      zoned_post_meridiem

      5 years ago

      I find that my worst shots come when I have to stand on the tee waiting for the group in front to clear, with all the time in the world to think about club selection, take practice swings, etc. I play fast because why would I replicate those conditions when there’s nobody ahead of me? Pick the club en route to the ball, align properly, swing, done.

      Reply

      Alex

      5 years ago

      I used to live in LA, and there you were lucky to get in under six hours, no joke. This issue is the number 1 reason I don’t golf as much. While many of the items contribute, I will say that I have NEVER played a round in decent time if the course does 8 minute tee intervals (assuming a full tee sheet). When in LA I finally just cut my rounds in half, payed twice as much, and would drive almost an hour to two courses that had 9 and 10 minute intervals. I also was amazed by the groups playing the back tees. Multiple times I saw a group of 4 get on the back tees at 6600 yards, and have not one person get their drive past the ladies tees. Most people I talk to don’t even have any idea what yardages they play from, they just go to the back. This is where courses have a responsibility to step up and educate.

      There is a course where I grew up that has several blind holes, and I would say it plays overly difficult for most of the golfers who play there. They hire three high school kids on and put one on each of the three toughest holes to help spot tee shots and look for balls. More courses could do this on holes the inevitably cause a bottleneck.

      I am also just amazed how unaware people are of the pace of play. When we get paired with someone who hits 180 drives, they hardly ever step and say I’ll hit my drive now, that group is out of reach for me…

      At the end of the day the responsibility falls on the courses in my opinion. Most of the people who are causing pace of play issues are not reading this article. Have the Marshall spend 5 minutes talking about the place of play, the yardages and expected tees to play from, tell the group that the pace of play will be enforced, and have clocks that let you know when your group is behind, etc.

      Reply

      Andy

      5 years ago

      I’m in LA now and the only sub 5 hour rounds I see are when I’m chasing the sun after work on a weekday. Before 7am on a weekend is around 5 hours. Anything 8am or later on a weekend… 5:30+.
      I LOVE the idea of having a marshall or the starter talk with groups before the 1st tee. “What’s your handicap? What tees are you planning to play from? Make sure that you waive groups up on the par 3s. Here are some local rules…. etc.” I played Bali Hai in Vegas and we got that talk. It was great and we got round in about 4:15 including a nice beverage stop at the turn.
      And yes, Marshalls working their way through the course and reminding groups to waive up on 3’s and notify if they’re behind pace would be helpful.

      Reply

      ANTON

      5 years ago

      At my course when the field is slow on a men’s day it runs at 4hrs 30 mins -4hrs 40mins. I have been told first hand that a slow ladies day is 5hrs – 5hrs 15 mins. I’m assuming that’s because there are more beginners in the ladies comp.

      Reply

      LOU

      5 years ago

      Question for All: Has any of you/us seen a course Ranger actually enforce pace of play guidelines? In my 50 years playing golf I do not recall even one incidence of a Ranger enforcing slow play issues when it was truly needed.

      Reply

      Alex

      5 years ago

      Yes,multiple times. But that’s still only about 5% of the times that it needed to be done.

      bobbyk

      5 years ago

      Haven’t even seen a ranger on a public course in years. But at 8 groups per hour, if you add $1 to the cost of greens fees, there would be $224 to pay a ranger to monitor the pace of play from 7am to 2pm. A small price to pay to speed up play.

      Mark Smith

      5 years ago

      I think we still need to find a way that doesn’t cater to the anti social world we currently live in. Most suggestions allude to playing your own game and not bothering about your playing partners. One suggestion of teeing off even if your playing partners are still holing out is plain ridiculous.

      Golf is a sport where you spend time playing with your friends or family(social round) for 4 or 5 hours and get to converse and interact. I don’t think we should be trying to eradicate this aspect. 6 hour rounds are horrible and that should maybe be the first target to crack everyone at max 5 hrs.

      Don’t get me wrong, people not waving groups through or using range finders and walk ups for yardages also need educating. Anyone who has played a tournament which uses ready golf and the new flagstick rule will also tell you that it isn’t really quicker than it used to be. Just gives a lot more scope for arguments and selfish idiots. Ready Golf does not mean you can putt or chip when the others are still 150 yrd away from the green just because you don’t want to wait.

      As many already suggested, the PGA Tour need to get their house in order first and then it will slowly filter down as well. The Shot Clock Masters was a great example of what can be done if they “wanted” to.

      Reply

      Maximilian

      5 years ago

      Bottom line pace of play requires everything to be in sync. We need the right spacing between tee times, the right course setup, and courtesy players that use the correct tees. One area that I’m surprised is not consider an issue is the lack of adequate facilities to warmup was not considered as a factor in slow play. In my completely non scientific assessment courses that offer a driving range and a putting green play the fastest. Followed by those with just a practice putting green. Courses with no place to warm up are always slow because golfers use the first few holes as a warmup and that just backs up the whole day. Pair that with playing from the wrong tees, US Open rough and narrow fairways and you have a 5 to 6 hour round.

      Reply

      James S

      5 years ago

      I have played for almost 60 years and the problem is mainly one or two slow groups that are usually 2 holes behind by the 18th hole. For whatever reason they are this slow its the course that needs to fix this. The ranger needs to show them in a friendly way how to play faster. If they want to they could, if they don’t then they need to not come back. The course needs to realize that groups like this discourage play and cost them money. Loose one group or many.

      Reply

      Tim

      5 years ago

      The problem is simple. Its has to do with spacing the tee times out by 8 minutes. If we really want people to be able to show up for their tee time and get around in 4 hours and go home, starters need to be mandated to space tee times by 14 minutes! Do the math. Its basically impossible for there not to be a jam if they space the times out by 8 minutes. That’s a 2 1/2 hour round! Honestly, how many people are really playing 18 holes in 2 1/2 hours?

      If, between 7am and noon, they space the times by 14 minutes instead of 8, Courses will miss out on 16 groups worth of greens fees. At $30/round, thats between $480 and $1,920/day. A lot of cash. However, one could argue that it could be recovered by encouraging people play in the afternoon. Maybe add in a national campaign encouraging people to ‘play the afternoon’ when the course is empty.

      Reply

      Alex

      5 years ago

      The issue with the math, is that a second group can tee off on a par 4 when the first group is done hitting their approach shots. Hence 8 minutes assumes 16 minutes for each group to play a par 4. However, 8 minute tee time gaps still don’t work. I have hardly ever had any issue with 10 minute spacings. I think courses should at least go to 10 minutes for prime time tee times from 7:30-9:30. Charge a premium for these groups who want to play quick. Generally anyone teeing off before 7:30 is not going to be playing that slow anyway.

      Reply

      bill

      5 years ago

      i work in the industry. I’ve seen usga and university (cornell-google the study) studies that analyzed tee time interval. minimum 10 minute intervals. Anything past 12 minutes has diminishing returns on pace of play. Industry standard is 7 or 8 minutes which automatically lead to at least 45 minute delays because people cant usually play a hole that quick. It’s hurry up and wait. Courses pump through tee times for revenue. They will NOT give up $1000 a day in lost revenue to increase pace of play. And these cart systems are expensive thus useless to most courses. I can’t afford $1000 a cart to put in pace of play and geofencing. Make it $50 a cart and I’d do it. And you can walk, shoot 115 and play in 4 hours it all depends on how much time you waste looking for balls, making practice swings, reading greens from 4 angles etc. Just hit your ball when ready. And courses need boots on the ground for marshalls. They should be stationary and measure group times at specific points on the course starting at about the 3rd tee. If you are 6 minutes behind after 2 holes thats 54 minutes in a round or 5 hours. Need to catch slow play early! Anything more than 2 minutes behind and you notify the group to speed up. Bandon Dunes is walking only and has a pace of 4:20 because they used marshalls..crews of 3 or 4 on the main course. Also, bev cart training is huge. Sending a bev cart in reverse direction can add 45 minutes to a round.

      ButchT

      5 years ago

      Lack of enforcement of rules is a large part of the problem. I played yesterday. Man and his wife precede my twosome. Wife would routinely take 16 strokes to get to the green – constantly taking 3 -4 swings just to hit the ball! Took just short of 6 hours to play. No golfers ahead of them! Single behind us standing in fairway about 40 yards from us on the green leaning on his club on every hole. Miserable round of golf. No “player’s assistants to be seen. Zero consideration for other players on a Friday afternoon.

      Reply

      Cheryl

      5 years ago

      If this women was indeed a true beginner her husband should have her on an executive course. Secondly, after a certain amount of strokes she have picked up her ball. I have played with couples in this situation many times. I will inform the husband or playing partner to have them put the ball on a tee for every shot. It’s speeds them up and gives them confidence.

      Reply

      Doug

      5 years ago

      I would have asked them if my group could play through since there was a clear hole ahead of them.

      Reply

      Max

      5 years ago

      you were a twosome and there was a single behind you and you didnt join up?

      Reply

      Spitfisher

      5 years ago

      Marshals and course Rangers need to carry fire arms, no seriously they do need to be empowered to move people along and make them aware. A local course has listed elapsed time after the tee time on each hole on the score card. Several reminder signs are also posted throughout the course. i.e. 45 minutes have elapsed since your tee time, we encourage a 4 hour round for everyone. They also have a lunch sign on hole 8 so players can order lunch at the turn and have it ready.

      Yesterday we played as a five some, yukking it up, looking for balls etc 3:55 minutes it can be done

      Reply

      Dean

      5 years ago

      It is all about selfish jerks. Nocklaus- what business of yours is it if I’m in a hurry and don’t want to watch you gab lag, slosh your drink and hit an extra putt to see what you did wrong while we are waiting on the tee. If you want to play slow – be polite and let faster groups play through. Golf in a cart should always be less than 4 hours no matter if you are a 20 or a 2.

      Be ready to hit think a little ahead and don’t delay around the green when you are done. Visit as you travel down the fairway or over a relaxing drink after golf. Not with a green open ahead of you or a group waiting to hit behind you.

      Reply

      Stephen Pearcy

      5 years ago

      Many, many good ideas here. The USGA should take note. Unfortunately, they seem so focused on their beloved championships. . . .

      Reply

      SteddyGolf

      5 years ago

      I am not surprised this well written piece already has 80 comments. It will problem set some sort of record for number of respondents. The one comment I like the most was, “its always the other guy”.

      To solve any problem you first must admit you have a problem followed closely by a desire to solve that problem. Without a collective “want to” the can will continue to be kicked down the street.

      Yes, you can build more time friendly golf courses that address the well known choke points but in many cases the eggs have already been scrambled for the preponderance of tracks were built long ago. So really it comes down to active management of YOUR specific Golf Course to ensure you maximize the experience of all Golfers.

      So for me it comes down to two main points; player education and active enforcement of your specific strategic plan. If the players are informed and educated they will more than likely comply in most cases. If you have both active and passive measures to enforce behaviors then those people who slip outside of the expectations will be kindly nudged back into standard.

      Please understand I am not trying to oversimplify the problem because I do realize it is much more complex than my simple suggested resolve. However, every walk starts with the first step.

      Reply

      Humza

      5 years ago

      I have experience playing in Scotland where most links courses take about 3 to 3 1/2 hours to play for a three-ball ON FOOT with a fair amount of wind. On most American courses it takes about 4 hours for a three-ball ON CARTS in mostly calm conditions. The difference in my opinion is down to course set-up (shorter courses, less distance green to tee, reasonable green speeds). Also, golfers there are accustomed to playing faster and pace of play is fairly well self regulated. No mulligans and ready golf seem to be the accepted norm, which seem like alien concepts in the US.

      Reply

      Steven

      5 years ago

      I second your comment.The first time I played in England was a course in the Lake District. Our B&B owner invited me to play. In street shoes & rental clubs off we went. It wasn’t terribly busy that day and on the 4th hole I hit my second shot and turned around to say something to him. He was 10 yards ahead of me. No dilly dallying around. Done in 3 hours in the club house ordering our first pints. Since then I’ve played in Ireland,England,New Zealand and Canada. Same thing and I love it. This fall I’ll be south of London for a week, can’t wait.

      Reply

      Gav

      5 years ago

      I skim read a little but the differences in times can be startling. I often squeeze in 9 holes after work but run into slow play so I hole jump. Thankfully this is encouraged mid week.
      My rate of play increased significantly with a powered hand cart (course is extremely hilly and hot climate).
      Ignorant 4somes kill my round when I’m solo or in a pair.
      Ready golf is pretty important for mine in groups.
      The one time I’m for the slow golf is if I’m at a new or special course and I want to somewhat appreciate it. This is probably an issue for more up market courses that are public.

      Reply

      Ron

      5 years ago

      Played a course about a month ago that had large clocks positioned at the 6th and 12th tees. They were synchronized so if you had an 8:00 am tee time and stayed on their 4:05 pace of play each would read 8:00 when you arrived at those tees. Earlier meant ahead of pace, later meant “speed up”. A very simple way to give people an idea of where they stand (though is but ones at #3, #9 and #15 as well)

      Another course I’ve played often (well known for pacing issues) pulled a neat trick. They were going to host a web.com event and had to do some modifications. While they were at it, they had to build several new tees. These were labeled “pro” tees, and a second set of markers was added as the “tournament” tees. Neither was actually marked during regular play and the “tournament” tees were actually where the old “black/tips” were. Then they took every single one of the other tees and moved them up. The change in pace of play was dramatic – cut an average of 25 minutes off the usual pace.

      Reply

      Mike

      5 years ago

      I started playing golf in 1957 at age 13. A couple years later, I read in a golf magazine about a CA course that was having 5-6-7 hours rounds. They tried all the things they could think of. Finally (I remember the $ well even from 50+ years ago) in addition to the $5! green fee, there was a $15 deposit. When a group teed of, their card was time-stamped. When they cleared the 18th green, it was timed-stamped again. There was a penalty of $1 for each minute over an elapsed time of 4.5 hours.

      I thought “this is brilliant; no need for marshals or anything else, but perhaps they should have a sheriffs deputy or two on hand to break up fights”. After inflation, the numbers today would be up ~9x but the idea is still the same. Obviously, each group must be made aware of the condition of play when they book, but then its their choice play or not.

      Reply

      Hdtvman

      5 years ago

      1. Play the right tees. If you’re 70 don’t play the tips!
      2. Cart path only? Play it forward!
      3. See #1

      Reply

      Claude

      5 years ago

      I went to California few years back and watched web.com q-school events. They played in 5h45… yes, 5h45 with caddies and in 3somes. On top of that they only hit 70 to 80 shots :-) How do you expect amateurs, playing in 4 somes with no caddies, hitting over 100 slots a piece to play in 4 hours ?????
      Having said this I play well over 200 rounds a year and on MY course, its usually 3h30 / 3h45 if not held up. Its GOLF, its a precision game, so its slow. If you want to do things fast, go a play a round of mini-putt.

      Reply

      KP

      5 years ago

      I am a marshal at Springbank Links in Calgary Alberta. Played 36 holes today with another marshal in 4 1/2 hours. Granted the course was empty but we yukked it up. Played music. Played for money and had a great old time kicking each other’s ass. But on the weekends we politely enforce a 4 to 4 1/2 with our members and paying public. And with the help of members or public calling into the pro shop, and then the pro shop calling out to the marshals, we are able to go indentify where we are having issues and then go help that group pick up the pace. I work at a great course and it seems that anyone who plays there seems vested in keeping the game enjoyable and on time.

      Reply

      steve

      5 years ago

      watch any golf on tv and there 10ft off to the side when they get there they then look around like they have all day i know there making a living but monkey see monkey do. its a problem even the tours dont look to speed up play. all they do is talk about it but do nothing!!!!!!!

      Reply

      James T

      5 years ago

      There’s a nifty sign on the first tee at Pebble Beach. Sure, everyone wants to play the same course as the tour players on TV. But you can’t. The sign Indicates that certain handicaps can play from the tips, other handicaps have to play more appropriate tees. If you’re a 20 handicapper you get to buddy up to the reds. And to play the back tees you need to show your GHIN handicap card to the starter.

      Reply

      Pete

      5 years ago

      As soon to be 71 yr old, I find there are TWO main problems. #1 is younger players who prefer to drink beer and talk sitting in their carts while the fairways are empty. #2 is older players standing on the tee box while the group in front of them is WAY beyond their reach in the fairway on par 4’s. They generally hit about 150yds off the tee. I am also handicapped with bad knees and therefore slow at getting around. HOWEVER, when I play, I tell my playing guests NOT to wait for me on the greens but play ready golf. I also use the cart to get to the rough as close to the green as I can without being stupid. I play the same course 3 times a week and come across these problems, mainly by people who are playing there for the first time. By the way, many of the people I have played with have very generously driven my cart to me if I have a problem. Thank you gents! That’s my rant for today!

      Reply

      Mark

      5 years ago

      I agree with the ultimate conclusion that a predictable speed to the round is key, not getting to the finish line as fast as possible. My sunday group finishes in 4:20- 4:25 mins, but there is virtually no waiting. Occasionally, you have a slower hole. It is inevitable due to lost balls, mismarked balls in the rough, or walking v. riding on more severe uphill walks. I’ve been on a few courses where the marshals are overkill and will press you for falling behind 3-5 minutes. It feels as if you are not welcome. One way to kill golf faster than any pace of play – is to make people who pay good money feel uncomfortable. Those learning feel the pressure even more so, and will not want to come back.

      Reply

      zoned_post_meridiem

      5 years ago

      I have never, not once, encountered a marshal who has helpful on-course. It’s always exactly what you describe. Once had one stand behind us, like a coach, on the first tee — very distracting. I much prefer the kind of tech featured here, or even simple clocks.

      Reply

      Phillip

      5 years ago

      Point #1: I do not go to play golf if I am in a hurry.

      Point #2: My normal group has one low handicap player and the other three of us are between 18 and 23. The three of us will play the shorter tees and the other will play the right tees for him. He tees up first and the rest of us are ready to go as soon he tees off. If the course is crowded, he will usually play the short tees with the rest of us. We can usually finish our round in just about four hours, less if the course is not very busy.

      Point #3: The idea about keeping up with the group in front of you is a very flawed concept. If the course is open and the group ahead of us consists of four low handicappers, there is no way that we can keep up with them. It’s just not possible. As long as we are on the recommended pace (usually around 4 hours) we are fine. If a much faster group comes up behind us, we will try to let them play through. But on crowded courses, letting a group play through can back things up even more.

      Reply

      Dougm

      5 years ago

      Makes sense to me soldier hollow in midway utah let a group out 2 ahead of us who after 3 holes was already behind one hole. Due to only one of the group adequate enough to play from tips yet the other 3 were in the weeds i called the pro shop who sent a marshall out when we made the turn i went inside as they were 2 full holes behind, the 9 took 2:15 which in itself wasnt bad but there was no flow. Anyway, pro basically acted like i was a whiner, even tho we play in less than 2 regularly we got up to the 10 tee , looked over at the sister 10 tee, which was wide open, and finished on that course in 1:45 we were 3 holes done before the group got done withteeing off on 2. Not conventional of course but we would have left if we had to wait 20 minutes at original tee box moral of story–increase gap on tee times and monitor who belongs on which tee box

      Reply

      shortside

      5 years ago

      I’ve said it 500 times. People don’t know how to use carts. With 2 riders they drive up to every shot. No matter how close they are. Worse yet when they’re not dummy 1 doesn’t grab a few clubs and go his ball to get ready. Then around the green they park in front of it instead of behind it. Which btw gives you a chance to see how the green breaks. Knocks 30 minutes off the round without trying.

      Reply

      Humza

      5 years ago

      You are spot on. In fact, most groups would probably play faster walking… that is, if the course doesn’t have every tee 60 yards from the green. Make courses more walkable!

      Reply

      Scoe

      5 years ago

      Yes, cart efficiency is terrible. I walk, often playing with 3 riders, and I’m waiting around for them. I especially get off the green and to the next tee much quicker. I fall behind sometimes after the tee shot when they drive ahead… but I make it up unless I’m first to hit the second shot.

      Reply

      James T

      5 years ago

      I stayed at a nice resort in the Caribbean. Paid good money. In their restaurant they asked me to speed up my eating so others could be seated. So I went to the bar and in the middle of my gin & tonic I was asked by the bartender to please hurry up… people were waiting for my barstool. So I ambled down the steps to the beach…

      Reply

      Joe

      5 years ago

      As soon as anyone starts off thinking that anything over 3 hours is ok for a foursome, then you have already got it all wrong, and will never be able to fix the problem, and that is exactly what we see.

      You have to first realize that the correct timeframe for a foursome is no more that 3 hours. But no one even understands that, so how are they going to fix a problem when to don’t even understand what the problem is, they cant and that is why the problem never gets fixed.

      Another major problem is all the people trying to fix the problem are slow golfers themselves, and have likely never even played a round within the proper timeframe. You have to have people like me to set the standard and not have it set by golfers that just think they are fast. No one thinks they are a slow golfer, but that fact is if it takes your group more than 3 hours, you are a slow golfer.

      If your group regularly gets done in around the 2.5 hour mark, then maybe you can be trusted to be involved in a solution. If not, you should have nothing to do with the solution, because you are the problem.

      Reply

      zoned_post_meridiem

      5 years ago

      3h/foursome excludes all but the very best players. I’m all for fast play (and play ready-golf, etc., whenever possible), but 3.5-4h seems like a much more reasonable goal.

      Reply

      Trever

      5 years ago

      “We are all part of the problem” is, of course, true. However, I suggest we tie this conversation back to the “real” issue, that being the Rules of Golf (TM). In NO other sport do weekend warriors play by the same rules as pros. In fact, in all other sports the rules are very different even at the highly organized levels, and by the time amateurs are playing with their friends the rules may be so different the game itself is played differently.

      If we want to speed up golf, and make it more fun, we need to acknowledge different sets of rules beyond just handicaps. I won’t get into specific suggestions – though I could – but lenient yet consistent changes to rules like lost balls and available relief from penalty areas can reduce round times by as much as 20 minutes per player (my club has experimented and measured this). And yes, this means that on an open course I have been in a foursome that played in 3 hours 5 minutes without anyone breaking 85.

      Bottom line: While YES there are many issues, from course design to etiquette to cart policies, the USGA actually has the authority to address this, and as stewards of the game they also have the mission to do so. And they are failing.

      Reply

      Phillip

      5 years ago

      Well said, Trever, I have been telling people this exact thing for years.

      Reply

      Stephen Pearcy

      5 years ago

      I really do understand why many players are upset with slow play. After all many see fast play as in indicator of being a better golfer. And virtually everyone has no desire to spend time waiting for the group in front of them to clear. But the relationship to pace of play to levels of participation is more nuanced.
      For example, I don’t think many veteran players are going to quit the game because it takes 4 hours 30 minutes vs 4 hours. And I do think that many novice golfers will give up an quit when they are hassled and constantly pressured to play faster than they are comfortable with. And what they are comfortable with is, for sure, not a fast round. Every veteran golfer knows how to play quickly but few beginners are that adept – especially when they spending a good portion of the time looking for the ball.

      I truly believe the most pressing problem is fewer people taking up the sport. I suggest the following to help them: 1) if your losing golfers then you must have open tee times. Space the tee times further apart and you’ll make everyone happy. 2) If you can, have 9 hole layouts. Every new course should be built this way 3) Have Beginner, Senior, Lady, or Whatever days with tee times that anticipate a 5 hour round. They won’t think they are playing slow and will love the experience.

      Reply

      Malagash Helen

      5 years ago

      Hi Stephen
      Beginner Senior Lady or Whatever days? Shows your bias pretty clearly. I am a female Senior player and when I go out with a friend on the first tee time of the day we are done in 2:30 -2:45 and that is putting out on every hole. When we go out as a foursome it is 3:30 again putting pout on every hole. The senior women at our course play quite quickly. I think one issue is too many people watch tv golf and try to emulate the pros.

      Reply

      Steve p

      5 years ago

      I certainly didn’t intend to imply that all women golfers are slow. But it is likely that is the case for many just as many men golfers are slow. And I’ve seen very often that many women’s “nine holers” tend to be slow – as well as men. I’m just saying that aggressively pushing them might drive them from the course and, while that might make your round faster, it may lead to your course closing.

      JasonA

      5 years ago

      I think that Stephan’s point should not be missed. If for whatever reason you’re going to enjoy a leisurely round there should be a slot where that it is pleasant to do that.

      I played off peak time in 2-ball and came up behind a 4-ball of senior lady players, who were chatting as much as golfing and genuinely very slow. YMMV! We were happy enough to take our time and enjoy the day behind them. But that group went out of their way to let us play through and were very relaxed. I hope they enjoyed their circa 5 hour round very much and we enjoyed ours.

      Dave S

      5 years ago

      Without real and fully understood consequences to not playing faster if you’ve been designated as “slow”, nothing will materially change, no matter what measures are implemented. That’s part of the problem though… golf is typically expensive and a getaway of sorts. People who pay good money for something don’t like being told they’re going to slow or feeling stressed during their round (even if they’ve brought it upon themselves). I’ve known many players who after being told (kindly) by a marshall they need to speed will simply say “screw em, I paid good money for this round and I’m not going to be rushed!” That’s the mentality that makes this hard to fix without actual consequences.

      Reply

      James T

      5 years ago

      I stayed at a nice resort in the Caribbean. Paid good money. In their restaurant they asked me to speed up my eating so others could be seated. So I went to the bar and in the middle of my gin & tonic I was asked by the bartender to please hurry up… people were waiting for my barstool. So I ambled down the steps to the beach…

      Reply

      Jeff Mott

      5 years ago

      Go on You Tube and search Patrick Cantlay – slow play… Watch him stand 45 seconds over a drive…

      Sir Nick Faldo rips Patrick Cantlay over slow play at Memorial

      Golfmagic Sir Nick Faldo slams Patrick Cantlay’s pace of play on the PGA Tour. — Matthew Wiley (@wiley77) June 3, 2018 Don’t think I’ve seen any pro golfer stand over the ball/shuffle his feet/waggle over a ball as long as Patrick Cantlay since early-2000s Sergio. Hit the darn ball, Patrick! #PGATour #theMemorial pic.twitter.com/y42TSgW0eJ— Ryan Black (@RyanABlack) June 3, 2018 I think I could play an entire hole in the time it takes Patrick Cantlay to hit one shot. pic.twitter.com/XAQWbEMW0A— …

      Reply

      Rick Petryk

      5 years ago

      The course have to want to do something. Since they are competing for a dwindling supply of golfers, they often do not want to do anything that might drive customers away. Last year we played at upscale course in Delaware. During the morning round we had marshals up our behind reminding us to keep up the pace of play even on the par 3 where the group ahead of us hadn’t even gotten on the green to put. During the afternoon replay, at a steep discount, not 1 ranger to help us out during the 6 hour round. When I asked the bag guys where the rangers were, I got chewed out. Needless to say we are not longer playing that course!

      Reply

      RH

      5 years ago

      Pace of play is a red herring. As a lifetime golfer and a player assistant at one of the busiest courses east of the Mississippi I witness and participate in 5+ hour rounds all the time. The issue is not pace of play but quality of play. When someone’s round goes south, they look for any rationalization they can find and the main culprit is generally the group in front. Golf demands focus and if you are trying to manage the golf course or editorializing on the behavior of the players around you than you have missed the point of the game. Relax, concentrate on the swing and ignore the distractions. If you can do that then you will enjoy the experience and you will not mind being out there for a longer period of time.

      Reply

      Rick Pteridine

      5 years ago

      Simplify the rules for amateur play. OB is stroke and distance? Yes, lets all go back to the tee and try again. That will speed things up. The USGA has to wake up and uncomplicate things so that even the pros can understand the rules. OB/Lost ball = 1 stroke and drop where it went out/got lost. All hazards are just plain hazards; no lateral or otherwise. Can’t hit it? Take an unplayable penalty, drop and keep going. After two tries and still in the trap, drop it on the edge of the green closest to the ball and take a stroke. On roots or rocks? Move it to the closest grass with no penalty; why risk damage to self?

      Eliminate unfair hole placement by making the head groundskeeper two putt every pin placement. Fast greens and holes on slopes make 4 putts an easy score and for the putt meisters, lining up a fifth putt taks way too much time.

      Reply

      Mark in LOL

      5 years ago

      At the personal level, I think there are things we can all do to minimize wasted time.
      – never mind who has the honor, first person to be ready tees-off.
      – on the fairway, hit your shot when you are ready; don’t wait for someone who is farther away or who is looking for a ball.
      – on the green, have an extra ball marker so you can mark another player’s ball so you don’t have to wait for that person to walk the length of the green after chipping on.
      – pickup after a double-par.
      – play out-of-bounds like it is a lateral hazard, so you don’t have to go back and hit again from original place.

      Reply

      Wes Brown

      5 years ago

      I agree with Mark – ready golf. All 5 of his suggestions will speed up play. I would like to see the Pros adopt the ready -play aspect. Our group encourages each other to reduce time of play by helping to locate shots, marking balls on the greens, leaving the flag in much of the time, etc. Our group of 4 can play rounds in 3.5 to 4 hours but are at the mercy of the group in front. Also, playing tees that fit one’s ability is the best way to cut out wasted time. I see 100+ golfers trying to tee off from the tips with wild drives that require excess time to locate the ball. Play the tee that fits your game, not necessarily the tee that your buddies play. If you use Stableford scoring, the tee does not matter as the scores will balance out in a very few rounds. One last game speed up tip is to all agree to lift – clean – and place. This reduces poor lies and will improve shots.

      Reply

      Jeff Mott

      5 years ago

      You can only mark the ball once when on the green…
      You have to play your ball out in one putting session.
      Nothing drives me crazier than players who mark a 1 foot putt
      and stalk the hole looking for the break from all angles on a
      1 foot putt. It’s not the US Open or a 1 foot putt for $2MM.
      Most greens are so firm they don’t show foot prints or shoe marks.

      The people who mark 1 foot putts are the same people that turn a 4 hour round into a 5 hour round,. then whine about the pace of play-

      Reply

      Christopher

      5 years ago

      This, definitely. I made this same comment in the forums a couple months back. Mark it once, must putt out once you start

      Reply

      James T

      5 years ago

      Tom… to take your great idea a step further. Every golfer, seasoned or not, needs to play 9 holes with the pro who gives them a grade: green, yellow or red, red being the slowest of golfers. That grade (color) is kept in the computer in the pro shop. Greens get to schedule a tee time and play whenever they want. Yellows get to play after 11:00AM, Reds get to play after 2:00. For 25 bucks you get to retest. Kinda like getting a driver’s license. Everyone will want to be a “green” and will then learn the secrets of playing fast, but still enjoy the game.

      Reply

      Keycrawf50k

      5 years ago

      This is ignorant. Every golfer learning to play is required to play after 2 by this logic. If that doesn’t meet their availability they will just choose to go do something that doesn’t marginalize them. Golfers who forget that they sucked at one time too, are the real reason golf has a decline in popularity.

      Reply

      Jiro

      5 years ago

      Nice article John. One nice feature I’ve seen on some carts (at courses that require carts) is having the gps show how far ahead the group is in front of behind you (in addition to showing how you are doing against the pace). Thought that was neat.

      Reply

      jsilva

      5 years ago

      The group I play with every weekend plays a usual round of 4.25-4.5 hour round. We always keep up with the group ahead of us, we all walk, don’t ride. I have no problem playing for that amount of time. I enjoy my friends, the beauty of nature and the leisurely, but determined pace, we play ready golf and don’t dilly dally. But I have to say, I’m pretty fed up with the obsession with the “fast round”. What’s the rush? If you want to play a “fast round” play in the afternoon when nobody’s around. I also feel the pace of play issue emboldens the morons out there that think hitting into the group ahead of them will make them speed up. Hint, call the clubhouse and have a ranger go out and see if the group ahead of you truly is playing slow, therefore avoiding confrontation and injury.

      Reply

      Deacon

      5 years ago

      Four and a half hours is a very slow round. One option is to reserve the first hour or two each day for groups that play in under 4 hours. Our foursome walks and is given the first tee time. We complete our round in less than 3 and a half hours.

      Reply

      Regis

      5 years ago

      Depends. Most of my golf as a young adult was played at Bethpage Black. Even a 4some of 10 handicaps is not getting through in less than 41/2 hours even on less crowded day. I’ve played a number of iconic courses all over the country. Some rounds have taken 2 1/2 hours. Occasionally 5 hours. The cardinal principle is try to understand that most people are out there to enjoy the day. They may not be as good as you think you are. But as long as the group in front does not have a hole open in front, let them breathe. There are as many people leaving the game because of fast play pressure as there are people dropping out because it takes too long.. A 4:hour round (or 3 1/2 ) is ideal. But 4 1/2 is not very slow on a lot of tracks

      Lars

      5 years ago

      Why is 4 1/2 hrs a long time? If you do’t know the course layout, playing conditions etc, no one can tell if 4 hrs is slow or fast. I play at a course where you walk 8-9 miles in a very hilly landscape. Our pace of play is set to 4 1/2 hrs for a 4some, But if the rough is up you easily get to 5 hrs because. Is that slow? Nope! it is the expected time because the course conditions are super difficult. Rough down a 4some can get through in 4 hrs on a good day.

      Rich Martin

      5 years ago

      Since golf is an “individual” game, most of us want to maintain our options to play to our individual tastes and expectations – even at the expense of others’ tastes and expectations. It’s always something someone ELSE is doing that needs to be fixed -not me.

      I carry a ball retriever most rounds. I use it when the ball is visible and reachable in the water or the snakey weeds. I’m a “ball snob.” I NEVER play a ball I didn’t bring with me to the course, I don’t pay $4 for balls, so I don’t often retrieve balls. The ball retriever makes an appearance about three times a year. It’s not the ball retriever.

      I write long emails and comments, and I tell long stories. I don’t mind if someone – even me – talks while I play. I try to be courteous and not talk while others play. BUT, we play for the social aspect, too. It may be the talking.

      When I walk, I walk fast. Whether between the cart and the shot, or along the course when I don’t take a cart, I walk with a purpose! Slow walkers in the group ahead chap my hide! (If I walked that slow, I’d fall over!)

      I hit bad shots. More than I’d like. More than I should for as old as I am, as long as I’ve been playing, and as often as I play. Bad shots don’t slow the game down as much as do the antics that follow them! I know the rules, I apply them quickly, and I don’t throw things, or abuse my clubs or the course when I hit a bad shot! (Of course, some of my bad shots are apparently the fault of the ball, or so I’ve read…)

      We’re, generally, just at or within 5 minutes either way of 4 hours. When we’re slow, we don’t always recognize it – or know exactly why. Since we’re usually playing with our familiar group, each of us probably knows which of the others is the drag on our time. And, it varies from round to round. I’ve been known to mention pace of play to the groups ahead of us – sometimes confrontationally – but I don’t take the same approach with my friends. Maybe I should.

      Golf, well enjoyed, is immersive. I get into it! I can miss the clues when I’m the drag, and perceive the problem in others with a heightened sensitivity honed by that immersion. I’m not the problem. Unless I am.

      It’s an individual game, and each individual – no matter how self-deceivingly reluctant – holds a piece of the solution. I need to do everything I can to maintain the pace. And so do my playing partners, friends, and the morons practicing for their company scramble in the group ahead!

      I HAVE been asking for one technical solution that wasn’t mentioned in the article: Since the data is being generated from the carts’ GPS, send me a report on the round! Our home course has changed GPS units twice this year, and four times in the last four years. .(No individual bag tags, yet.)

      Make the next supplier add a report function. You have my email address. One aborted GPS system earlier this year promised to email me the score card. (The scorekeeping function was WAAAY too slow!) But, since GPS is time-based by definition, send me a report of the my time-checks by hole, and for the round. The Pro-Shop can see where and when my cart or tag was, show me where I’m losing time. We’ll discuss it as a group – we can change, really!

      A side benefit to the group-by-group, or even golfer-by-golfer reporting will be that the course managers can see where the course is a common problem for all golfers, and where one group or golfer is commonly a problem for others. They can manage accordingly. They’ll know, we’ll know, they’ll know we know, and we’ll know they know we know!

      Give me the data and I’ll fix me. It’s everybody else I worry about.

      Reply

      BG

      5 years ago

      In my opinion, most people simply do not know how to play ready golf, and in many instances, the golf cart exacerbates the problem. Most people are afraid to walk ahead of the person hitting, even when their ball is nowhere near the hitting partners line. Many people wait until it’s their turn to line up their putt, when they could have easily accomplished this when others are putting. These are just a few examples. Most Marshalls just tell offenders to hurry up, pick up the pace, and then drive off. I wish the Marshall would follow the group for a few holes and instead inform the group of things that could be done to help speed up their pace of play.

      Reply

      James T

      5 years ago

      I think it’s come down to setting aside 5 hours to play… and then another hour in the grillroom for cocktails.

      Reply

      zoned_post_meridiem

      5 years ago

      Used to do that, until I got hit by a ball flying 90* offline. I still walk ahead, but only when I know I can get enough distance to the shot to turn back, watch, and duck if necessary.

      Reply

      Mike

      5 years ago

      I feel everyone is part of the problem and everyone needs to be part of the solution. Playing “ready golf” and doing continuous putting help very much concerning pace of play. Also, it was observed in my league that leaving the pin in has helped pace of play. There must be a golf community effort to work on this…no one is innocent.

      Reply

      James T

      5 years ago

      Obviously the folks playing a 5 hour round, setting their own pace, like playing a 5 hour round.

      Reply

      JLS

      5 years ago

      Courses should promote match play or four ball – stroke play kills pace of play.

      Reply

      Steve

      5 years ago

      I’m a high handicap golfer, as are those I play with. Have the pro shops ask about handicaps when scheduling and let the speed golfers with low handicaps go out early. Then they can stretch out tee times later in the day and suggest proper tees for average golfers. I don’t find it embarrassing to play from the senior tees; II’m 67 and do not expect to shoot in the 80’s. I do however want to enjoy my day on the course.

      Reply

      Shannon

      5 years ago

      Remove the Pin again….We played a round and had someone tend the pin for each putt because one wanted it in, one out, they have just made the game longer by 3-5 minutes a hole with his non-sense.

      Reply

      JohnAllan

      5 years ago

      I note that the author nor any of the other folks who wrote comments mentioned what they call in the UK “Society Golf.” Courses routinely schedule tournaments without giving notice for those who wish to book a tee time. These tournaments are one of the chief reasons for the 6 hour round from hell in my experience!

      Reply

      Doug

      5 years ago

      Fastest player I ever saw was an old guy named Jannis at Onion Creek. He started his takeaway on the second step out of the golf cart and was back in driving to his ball before it stopped rolling.

      Reply

      Chris

      5 years ago

      My wife’s 88 year old grand father is by far the fastest player I ever ever seen. it’s driver, fw, fw, wedge, putter. He doesn’t care who’s turn it is he will play when he is ready and that is pretty quick. We have had to park our cart on top of his ball to stop him from playing into and through groups in front of us. He said he is too old to be wasting time waiting.

      Reply

      Doug

      5 years ago

      Real simple. Make a video of four neighbors mowing their yards. Have one neighbor go through a pre-line routine before mowing one line while the others watch. Once that line is completed, the next neighborhood initiates a pre-line routine before commencing to cut one line while the others watch. Rinse repeat until all four yards are finished. Make each group of golfers arrive early to watch the entire video before teeing off. They will only be required to do this once.

      Reply

      Evan

      5 years ago

      Here is my idea for a solution to potentially speed up play a little. I recognize that scenario doesn’t apply to everyone, but I think it does apply to higher-handicapped players (myself included)! It also assumes everyone has read/is aware of the MGS report on golf balls that just came out, and people will be leery of playing with found/used/lower quality balls (:-p), and instead will opt for the relative consistency of new, quality balls.

      Scenario A: I go to my local store/Amazon/wherever, and I purchase a box of Titleist Pro V1s for $48/box — $4/ball.

      I go out to play, and I hit a wayward ball (shocker!!!) into some nasty stuff. I have potentially lost $4 — I’m going to go spend a decent chunk of time trying to recoup my loss. If I lose an average of 2-3 balls per round, that’s a good bite out of my wallet.

      Scenario B: I go out and but a box of Titleist Pro V1s, at $12/box — $1/ball.

      I go out to play, and I hit a wayward ball (shocker!!!) into some nasty stuff. I have potentially lost $1. I will spend a quick minute looking for the ball. When I don’t find it, I quickly drop a new one and play on.

      This would require manufacturers to drop the prices of their offerings (yes, I know, when the Devil lives in an icebox), but this is more to provoke thought than anything else.

      I realize there are a TON of what-ifs in this scenario (for example, obviously, players could buy cheaper balls, but as players get better, they are going to settle on a specific ball that does what they want, and I have my doubts that lower-end balls will fulfill that need.)

      Just my $0.02

      Reply

      Emery

      5 years ago

      So, how much does it really cost to make a golf ball? What is the “technology” and is most of the cost of a ball marketing? Business has to profit and there are a lot of ball options out there. A tight dispersion ball is great as long as you hit it straight!

      Reply

      Neil

      5 years ago

      Good point. I’m a 9 HI and use the current Costco “Kirkland Signatures”. $1 a ball for a ball I can’t tell from a Pro V1 or Chrome Soft…and they’re just as durable too.

      Reply

      Kevin C.

      5 years ago

      Ranger/Marshal/Player Assistant: The employee at the golf course with the highest expectations and the least cooperation.

      It is important for a course to maintain a good pace of play early. When Player Assistants are trained to recognize when a group is even 2 – 3 minutes out of position the PAs can then help that group with the administrative tasks – bunker raking, ball mark repair, dealing with the pin if necessary, and dictating who should play – which can pick up that 2-3 minutes quickly while still providing great customer service.

      Reply

      Rick Arpin

      5 years ago

      Two simple ones, one for players, one for rules; assuming “casual” round not tourney:

      Players – be ready to hit as soon as other person hits (do any yardage checks, etc. in advance), and play ready golf. This isn’t the PGA tour.

      Rules – courses make local rule that anything outside the rough is a hazard. In southwest, lots of desert golf. In that example, treat all desert like hazard, one stroke and play it where it crossed the rough line. We spend a good 30 minutes a round (collectively) looking for balls, and we do it in packs so the other players aren’t hitting either.

      Reply

      Colin

      5 years ago

      Played at PGA West’s Stadium course this past winter, obviously a very crowded track and definitely a perfect “set-up” for slow play; plenty of water, difficult short game shots, lots of bunkers, and loads of photo opportunities, but the Marshall on the first tee required each group teeing off to wait until the group ahead clears the green (an un-reachable par 4) just to keep things spread out. We never saw the group ahead or behind us the entire day.

      Reply

      Adam

      5 years ago

      I like the point of player awareness starting in the pro shop or with the starter. When I work with a client at my profession, I always give them some kind of expectation of how the meeting will go; here’s what we’ll discuss and how long it will take. It seems to me that if the pro shop took a more active roll in informing the golfers of various holes and how to best play them, as well as expectation for pace of play (i.e. you should be finishing in 4 hours and 30 mins at the latest.. please sync your gps watches to that) it won’t be so bad when the marshal comes out and starts moving groups along. You’ve already set the expectation of time and told the golfer that marshals will be out and about to make sure pace of play is kept for the enjoyment of all players. I get that courses need money but golfers need to be reminded that they’re guests at the course and must play by the rules set forth by the course.. not their own whims and fancies.

      Another thing that is overlooked by some golf courses is writing up some local rules and posting them in the club house as well as the cart. A simple rule could be “once your strokes have reached double that of par for the hole, pick up.” Let’s face it, a lot of people think that playing golf is the time for practice. It’s not. It’s time to execute what you’ve been practicing. Practice is for the range. Practice on the course is only okay as one of the last groups to go out for the day and there’s no one behind you. Sure go ahead and drop 3 or 4 balls if you’re tee time is 1800hrs. If you’re playing at 1100hrs you can’t drop balls to practice… “Ain’t nobody got time for dat!”

      Reply

      Don

      5 years ago

      10 minute tee times can help, but if the course isn’t enforcing pace of play you’ll always get idiots that don’t know how to play fast screwing up the course. The course/marshalls/player assistants need to be willing to refund a slow group’s money and kick them off the course. When one hole behind, friendly warning. If still behind the same or worse after the next hole, more stern warning telling them they will be told to pick up and move to the next tee if they don’t catch up. Third time they are told to pick up and move to the next tee or head in for a full refund. All of this should be explained when paying: We expect you to stay on X pace and be in sight of the group in front of you. If you fall behind you will be asked to pick up your ball and move to the next tee or come in for a refund.

      Reply

      James T

      5 years ago

      Water seeks its own level. You will play no faster than the SLOWEST group on the course (ahead of you).

      Reply

      Joey5Picks

      5 years ago

      Along with 10-minute intervals, courses need starters to enforce them. If group B tees off as soon as group A ahead hits their second shots (maybe 8-9 minutes) group B will be waiting waiting in the fairway while group A is on the green.

      Too many courses have alternating 8/9-minute intervals. That’s setting up a backup before anyone starts.

      Reply

      boag

      5 years ago

      Perhaps more yardage signs would pick up the pace. Starting at 200 yds , 150, 125 100, 75, 50. Players waiting for the green to clear, when there is no possibility to hit the shot 200 off the turf when you could not hit it 150 off the tee. Drives me nuts.

      Reply

      albatrossx3

      5 years ago

      Yes I agree that driveable and reachable par 5’s are a problem, but they do not have to be, we see courses etc recommend waiving up the group behind on par 3’s which other than long par 3’s do nothing to speed play and create a larger bottleneck, having the players aware that they should waive up groups waiting on short 4’s and 5’s actually will speed up play by a lot. Lets look at this, the group on the green will probably be waiting on only 1 or 2 players in the group behind that are in position to hit the green, so the wait time for that group is minimal and they can be looking at their putts, fixing ball marks etc while the players hit, but where the improvement is, the third group on the tee on par 5’s or the group coming to the tee, on par 4’s it takes overall much longer for a group to play 8 to 12 shots around the green, than it does to hit 4 tee shots, so on these holes the group on the green has caused a traffic jam, yet if you waive up, the time it takes even in carts for the players to get to their next shot, the players on the green can finish, while anyone missing the green or laying up gets ready to play, and the group on the tee on par 5’s can hit because everyone even that one guy nobody can reach is clear of the fairway. Might not save a huge amount of time, but would reduce bottlenecks which waste time on holes around the bottleneck.

      Reply

      Tim

      5 years ago

      I read your comments and can see why the sport is dwindling…. I know your going to be angry and bitter but I am tired of the elitist bs on PUBLIC courses.
      I can play easy in 3 and half but I UNDERSTAND that on a weekend after 11 its going to slow down.
      PEOPLE ARE LEARNING .. encourage them quit talking down to them. HELP them dont snear … make it friendly and fun to make it grow.
      NEWS FLASH
      Golf courses are closing! why? people dont feel welcome or feel rushed. WHY? becasue you are arrogant and elitist. You want that status be it on a private course.
      When i play with people who are new I introduce them to ways to have more fun .. playing forward … playing scramble … etc
      So go ahead whine complain and be bitter all the way to the closing of more PUBLIC courses…
      HINT HINT which will make the times even slower!

      Reply

      LABillyboy

      5 years ago

      I don’t mind 5 hour or even a 6 hour round at the course 5 minutes from my house. It’s faster than driving an hour each way to play a 4 hour round. I just assume it’s going to be 6 hours and if it’s less that’s great. Nothing worse than a group of players expecting to play in 4 hours on a 6 hour golf course.

      Nobody plays slowly intentionally… just takes bad course conditions where you are searching for balls on every hole in deep rough, leaves, weeds, etc. People from certain parts of the world also insist on playing the back tees regardless of hcp. When you have a 36 playing the blacks, it’s going to take a while…

      I’d like to see more fore caddies on holes where courses know balls go hiding and more strategic assistance for groups playing wrong tees… move the blacks up to the whites when you see THAT group coming… then move them back.

      Most of all everyone needs to relax and be tolerant… I will not play with several guys because they go into a tizzy if we’re not on a 4 hour pace… it’s all they think about.

      Reply

      Colin

      5 years ago

      Agreed. Never understood why people put so much time and effort into golf, only to get mad that they can’t get off the course fast enough

      Reply

      Jean-Louis Boucher

      5 years ago

      I like it .

      Reply

      jsilva

      5 years ago

      Thank you! You sir, have the right attitude.

      Reply

      ck52

      5 years ago

      I’ve never seen the issue. I love being on course and I start getting sad at the 15th hole because I know it will soon be over. Four hours or five? If your friends or family don’t have an issue with you being gone four hours the get really upset when you’re gone five? Why?
      Let people go that are behind you if you are being slow. Can’t see someone on the green when you’re on the tee, guess what, you’re slow. Let them go. And if it’s backed up just BS with the guys around you, you’re there for fun, you’re playing a game. Enjoy the day. Stop worrying about slow play.

      Reply

      Kevin

      5 years ago

      I realize now my favorite course has a long, hard par 3 but it’s on the back 9 so only full-round players see it. It also has rough and then knee-high junk you could lose your stand bag in. My wife pulls out her watch and times 90 seconds; then drop and play on. The article and comments make many good points – all of which could contribute to better pace of play. My favorite option is to increase the hole size for non league/tournament play. The near misses are now in so the green clears faster.

      Reply

      Tom54

      5 years ago

      I play a lot of rounds every year, and I have a lot of experience running club tournaments. The issue is this: the only people who care about slow play are the people in group behind the group that is holding everything up. They can see that the slow group is a hole behind, has no one in front of them, etc. The slow group doesn’t care because they’re not being held up on every shot. Everyone is out for their own enjoyment and not always paying attention to their surroundings, or necessarily care how it impacts the rest of the people behind them. Personally I’m not surprised in the article that 67% of respondents say that slow play is not a problem that needs to be resolved.

      Reply

      joro

      5 years ago

      The problem as I see it is the Pros. Everyone wants to copy them and slow play unfortunately is not enforced by the Tour so the think it is okay, and second are the announcers who are alway saying you can’t rush the shots. Take your time and than chunk it. We had some high school finals at out Course and the average time was over 6 hrs and a lot of people who had times after the matches did not get to play because of the slow play that was monitored by their own people who did nothing.. Sad situation but they will not be invited back again. Players shooting in the 80s and 90s have no business being “deliberate”, or as I call it slow.

      Reply

      Jeff

      5 years ago

      I don’t mind a slower round. Golf is not inherently a fast game when played properly. There’s nothing wrong with lining up putts and getting your yardage worked out. That’s all part of the game. If you want a fast paced game there are plenty of other options. I don’t think we should change golf just to try and attract players that really aren’t a fit for the game.

      Reply

      Joey5Picks

      5 years ago

      You can do all that and still finish well under 4.5 hrs.
      -Ready golf
      -if you’re falling behind the group ahead, tee off on the next hole after you hole out while the rest of your group finishes
      -Assess your shot/read your putt while others in the group play
      -cart golf; drop your passenger at his ball, then go to yours
      -cart golf; hit shot, get in cart w/o putting club back in your bag. Put it back in your bag when you get out to pull the next club

      Reply

      David L

      5 years ago

      Correct Joey5picks. There is absolutely no reason you need 4 hours to play golf and still have a comfortable pace. I’ve walked 18 many times in that amount of time on full courses. Just get to your ball and be completely ready when it’s your turn.

      JD

      5 years ago

      I love this article. It is correlated between the issue to some extent. I worked in the industry for 10
      Years at various clubs both public and private. The course closing a lot is to do with greed to some extent. People not putting money back into courses to maximize profits then once it is stressed too far, people stop coming and they sell or close.

      For pace jamming tee times as short as 7 minutes a part is a joke. There really is no policing this at the non-Pro level. And let’s face it, shorter rounds on tour lead to less Ad rev.

      Reply

      Albert C.

      5 years ago

      I wear a GPS watch which I feel helps my pace of play..But, before GPS, there were course markers on sprinkler heads as well as colored markers.. If I forget my watch, I’m hard pressed to find markers in the grass these days, which definitely slows me down..

      Reply

      KC

      5 years ago

      Many courses could certainly do more to speed things up. I remember playing a course years ago that was very strict with it’s 3:45 max time round. They made sure you could drive in the fairway (they encouraged driving in fairway over rough), trees and rough were pruned enough to ease play and searches, blind tee shots had a spotter that pointed you to all 4 balls, et al. The course just made it easy to keep play moving. I prefer to walk and my only gripe is when it’s a half mile hike to the next tee, but you’ve got to make it so that the cart crowd can move along easily.

      Reply

      Dwayne

      5 years ago

      I just think there are too many people who don’t care, or think they aren’t the problem, so they won’t change.

      I’m seeing more younger people playing, they got the phone-thing going, and the music blaring, oblivious to the outside world. My golf years are almost done, a good thing.

      Reply

      Jon

      5 years ago

      Not sure what phones and music have to do with pace of play Dwayne. My buddy and I just played a 3.5 hour round last Friday with music “blaring” simply because the course was less crowded than usual and we are both mid HC golfers. Conversely we played a 5.5 hour round the week before because several seniors decided they were going to play the back tees… ignorant old men slowed the entire course down.

      Reply

      Dean Dodge

      5 years ago

      I play mostly Muni golf and almost all courses now have “suggested” pace of play 4 1/2 hours – so it is OK to play slow and they even support it? I am one who will not go back to notorious courses.

      Reply

      Tom Wishon

      5 years ago

      This cries for the way it is handled at most European golf courses. New golfers have to go through etiquette training and then play a round with the pro who instructs them how to manage their time on the course. They have to in essense be signed off by the pro before they are allowed on the course. But it is possible Americans would just not take that positively and it does nothing for the millions who have been playing for a long time and think they know it all.

      The essence of the game of golf is that even on a good day it takes a whole lot longer to play than any other sport or game. Getting every golf course down to 4 hrs would not increase participation in the game today because those who do not play are not interested in an activity that takes that long, not to mention takes too long to get to a point of proficiency that you can even enjoy the game.

      The only solution for existing play to make rounds shorter is to instruct slow players how to speed up and then pull people off the course if they can’t maintain proper pace. And that won’t happen because course owners would never want to lose revenue or develop a reputation for being something just short of a golf-nazi (to put it in Seinfeld terms!).

      Reply

      Thomas A

      5 years ago

      The best way to make rounds shorter is to only play 9 holes when that’s all the time you can muster.

      Reply

      Jean-Louis Boucher

      5 years ago

      I like it .

      James T

      5 years ago

      Tom… to take your great idea a step further. Every golfer, seasoned or not, needs to play 9 holes with the pro who gives them a grade: green, yellow or red, red being the slowest of golfers. That grade (color) is kept in the computer in the pro shop. Greens get to schedule a tee time and play whenever they want. Yellows get to play after 11:00AM, Reds get to play after 2:00. For 25 bucks you get to retest. Kinda like getting a driver’s license. Everyone will want to be a “green” and will then learn the secrets of playing fast, but still enjoy the game.

      Reply

      Don

      5 years ago

      Don’t allow BALL RETRIEVERS. They think it’s. A free ball flea market all you hear is there’s one there’s one It should be like the TSA you can’t play with ball retrievers

      Reply

      T. Secor

      5 years ago

      Technology slows down a round…especially when you have 20+ hdcp players acting like they are tiger woods out there….reading putts for 2 minutes, discussing their range finder distances each time….its crazy

      Reply

      david

      5 years ago

      seems like most of the speed of play attention has been for tour events. i could care less how long it takes the tour to play a round. im more concerned with idiot golfers that just dont know they are slow…..there needs to be signs everywhere on a course, proshop, gps, etc saying target round 3:45min 4:15 max anything more is absurd….that way people at least start realizing they are slow. i remember one year my local couse had 4:30 minute pace of play clock. what the hell. they were telling people to be slow. dumb…

      Reply

      Randf

      5 years ago

      TagMarshal is a good idea. It would be a gentle elbow to the ribs. Wider landing zones, shorter rough, and easier pin placement are all good ideas too, particularly at peak times. I understand how hard it is to label a $4 golf ball as lost after about 1 minute, but we golfers need to do that when other people are on the course. We are probably going to find the lost ball’s replacement within a few holes anyway LOL

      Reply

      Richard

      5 years ago

      The problem is for however many want fast play, there are people that are not only okay with slow play but I’m convinced enjoy it. Doesn’t matter age, riding or walking I’ve seen all sorts of people that spend 5-6 hours and are having a good time.

      Reply

      Travis

      5 years ago

      This exactly, “The problem is math. If it takes 11-minutes to play the hole and you have 8-minute tee time intervals, someone is waiting”. My local course has tee times every 7 minutes and expects groups to play holes in 15. Slow play is built in.

      Reply

      Tim W.

      5 years ago

      8 minute tee times is a problem. The issue that really chaps my butt is when the group in front of you has 2 holes open in front of them and the ranger says “they are on pace of play” when you complain about slow play. Also, courses with a recommended pace of play over 4 hours are asking for problems. If you tell people the expected pace of play is 4:20, they will play in 4:30 and feel everything was okay because they were “only” 10 minutes slow. No course should recommend a pace of play over 4:05 or 4:10. And early morning tee times should be for the “rabbits”. Pace of play early in the day should be less than 4 hours.

      Reply

      Thomas A

      5 years ago

      Yes to this. My partner and I play early and do it walking in under 3:30 hours.

      Reply

      Tim

      5 years ago

      In my experience, 90% of the time, its a pack of older men drinking and smoking cigars, just yukking it up and having a special day, so happy to be away from the house and socializing that they don’t notice that they’ve jammed the whole place up. Otherwise great guys just lost in the social aspect of the whole thing. Not sure how you fix this, but I swear that this is the primary cause.

      Occasionally, its because the local muni let a group of 5 or more goofballs play together – an offense which should be punishable by life in prison.

      Spacing tee times out by 8 minutes is a joke as well.

      I do agree with the point about pin positions for the weekend. I remember a number of occasions when the greens-keeper put the pin on the edge of a big slope on a fast green. Just one of these can really blow things up.

      Reply

      Tim W.

      5 years ago

      I resent the “pack of older men” comment since I am one of them. We usually play in 3:30 or less. Have seen the problem more often with bachelor parties of 20 somethings, most of whom play 1 or 2 times a year. They don’t care if it takes 5 hours or longer because they are having a good time and are clueless to their affect on other golfers.

      Agree that tee times should be minimum of 9 minutes apart and preferably 10 minutes.

      Reply

      David L

      5 years ago

      I resent the 20 somethings that play the back tee and then proceed to put every tee shot in the woods and are waiting for greens to clear so they can try and hit it with their driver. We have two such holes at the course I play and have never seen one person hit them from the back tees. The idea that they paid to play so we’re going to see the whole course is just so idiotic when your game can’t measure up.

      Darrin

      5 years ago

      5-somes and 8 minuted tee times do not work, but I have seen muni’s who pack them in this way.

      If a course is marshalled properly, or there is GPS that tracks times and encourages people to move and the tee times are appropriately paced then it usually moves along. Some courses just play faster, one course I play is difficult to play in 4 hours, it just wears you out and is very difficult even for experienced golfers, while others move quickly because it is easy to find lost balls etc. I’ve played 18 holes as a two-some in 2.5 hours, I’ve played 6 hour rounds on muni’s. It’s like a traffic jam on the highway, sometimes there are just too many cars, sometimes it’s cause by stupid self absorbed people.

      Tim

      5 years ago

      Maybe I was a little unfair to call out the old guys. It might just me where I live. The point is, its the yukking it up. The people who want to use each hole for 15+ minutes. Combine that with the tee times spaced out by 8 minutes and you get golf hell on a saturday.

      Lets make it mandatory to space out tee times by 15 minutes. Pretty drastic, it will make it tougher to get a tee time, but you will never hear of a slow round again. People will have to play later in the day- when the course is typically empty. Take a look at the parking lot of a local coarse at 8am and come back at 2pm. This is why I prefer to play in the afternoon.

      Chisag

      5 years ago

      ” just yukking it up and having a special day” applies to any and all ages. Whether it is old folks and drinking/cigars or young folks and phones/cart girl crush with non stop talking when they should be hitting, it is all the same.

      I was in Phoenix for 4 month playing everyday this winter so paired up as a single 95% of the time and slow players are completely unaware, or worse just don’t care if they are slow. They paid their money and they are gonna enjoy themselves and just don’t care about anyone else on the course.

      Reply

      Thomas A

      5 years ago

      “Each cart was equipped…” This is where I stopped reading. #walkthedamncourse

      Reply

      Also Thomas

      5 years ago

      Oh ya you tell ’em Thomas. Golf should be hard work trekking through a hot humid day you should feel like bag of dirt afterwards. Leave it all on the course! Can’t imagine who would want to have a leisurely round maybe drink a beer and enjoy being outside on their weekend. It’s about tradition! Thats why I only use persimmon woods with hickory shafts and steel blade irons, gotta keep with tradition….

      Reply

      Mike Mason

      5 years ago

      Walking only works on some courses others its not possible and would be extremely slow. A number of the courses I play will not even allow walking… just to slow.

      Reply

      Steve

      5 years ago

      The system works with walkers too. They’re on some brilliant walking courses – Erin Hills, Carnoustie, Whistling Straits etc. Clever stuff!

      Reply

      strokerAce

      5 years ago

      Forcing players to pay for a cart and then telling them it is ‘cart path only’ is an absolute killer….

      Reply

      Jonathan M.

      5 years ago

      Stop allowimg patrick cantlay in tournaments. Its gut wrenching to watch. He even does that when putting. He ruins gplf

      Reply

      Nocklaus

      5 years ago

      First of all, you shouldn’t play golf if you are in a hurry …
      With that said, I think some people are just walking too slow and take too much time on the greens.

      Reply

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