What Would Happen if There Were No Equipment Contracts in Golf?
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What Would Happen if There Were No Equipment Contracts in Golf?

What Would Happen if There Were No Equipment Contracts in Golf?

Golf equipment companies pay professional golfers to play their equipment.

You already know this.

But what if there were no equipment contracts? What if money were off the table and professional golfers considered performance only?

What would the equipment landscape look like?

Would Titleist still be the #1 ball in golf? TaylorMade the #1 Driver?

It’s all about the Tour

You’re probably also aware that The Tour makes for a pretty hefty number on the balance sheet. Big companies have big tour staffs, smaller companies…um, not so much.

If the goal is to make an impact on tour, it sucks to be the little guy on a budget.

Performance or not, you think these guys are going to play your shit for free?

Those who can afford to invest heavily in The Tour do it because there’s no more powerful statement than being #1 at something…anything at the professional level. Few things make for better marketing than to claim a portion of the credit for a tour player’s success.

Pay to play is why my inbox is bombarded every week by a multitude of companies taking an ownership share of a winner’s success. Club, shaft, and ball, footwear and spike manufactures too…they all want you to know that the most recent winner, used or wore its product while besting the field.

The implication is their gear is ALWAYS a contributing factor to success.

number1

You buy what you buy because the Pros are paid to play what they play.

Does the Gear Really Matter?

From one week to the next, would the winner still be the winner with somebody else’s gear in the bag?

Would Dustin Johnson and Jason Day win without TaylorMade? Jordan Spieth without Titleist? Rory McIlroy without Nike? Stenson, Reed, and Mickelson without Callaway?

Absolutely not.

It definitely has to be the clubs, right? What other possible explanation could there be?

Let’s table that discussion for another day.

The Pyramid of Influence

Whether it’s through club counts or actual victories, manufacturers know that the consumer will overlook the fact that between the hot melt, the grinding belts, and the drawers full of exotic shafts fit to the nth degree, the product in the tour player’s bag is comparable in name only to what’s on your local store shelves.

But if it works for a pro, it will absolutely work for the average guy. That’s the subtext. That’s what we’re supposed to believe…and the majority of consumers do.

You buy what you buy because the pros are paid to play what they play. Not all of you, of course, but the pyramid of influence is what it is because it works.

pyramid-of-influence

But What if…

rory-michelle

What would happen if professional golfers weren’t paid to play nearly every piece of gear in their bags?

What if, freed from the shackles of their multi-million-dollar equipment deals, instead of seeking out what pays the best, the best players in the world actively seek out gear that performs the best?

Crazy talk, I know, but let me finish the thought.

To some small degree, that might be what’s happening now with Rory McIlroy, Brooks Koepka, Tiger Woods, and others formerly bound by their Nike bag requirements. This is basically uncharted territory. One of the biggest names in golf equipment, one with a sizable Professional Tour Staff effectively disappeared from the equipment landscape overnight. Its players are free to play literally anything, and Nike still pays them as long as the swoosh stays on the hat (and the shirt, and the shoes). For this brief moment in the history of golf equipment sponsorships, money should be no factor, at least not for the next little while.

For Nike guys, the next round of club choices might actually be 100% performance-driven. Wouldn’t that be something?

Koepka has already put a TaylorMade M2 driver in play. McIlroy did the same (along with a fairway wood) this past weekend in China. Even if TaylorMade can’t use it in its next commercial, unpaid validation is unquestionably the best validation.

Tony Finau is back to playing mostly Callaway. Michelle Wie is reportedly playing a mix of PING and Callaway gear. And Tiger…there have been rumors of Miura, some wishful thinking around Mizuno, and even some chatter about Mr. Woods being part of a group seeking to buy TaylorMade.

Somebody find me an emoji to cover that situation.

Tiger’s new bag is among the greatest curiosities in the sport. He’s still the guy that moves the needle more than any other.

The Real #1

With Koepka, McIlroy, and Wie already moving on and others certain to follow, it’s got us thinking about what would happen if this free agent thing caught on.

If equipment companies stopped paying for play tomorrow, which brands would fall?

Which would rise?

Who would be the #1 golf equipment brand on the planet?

Then again, what if every golfer stopped caring what the professionals play and instead took the time to get properly fitted for everything in the bag?

Now that would really be something.

 

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Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony is the Editor of MyGolfSpy where his job is to bring fresh and innovative content to the site. In addition to his editorial responsibilities, he was instrumental in developing MyGolfSpy's data-driven testing methodologies and continues to sift through our data to find the insights that can help improve your game. Tony believes that golfers deserve to know what's real and what's not, and that means MyGolfSpy's equipment coverage must extend beyond the so-called facts as dictated by the same companies that created them. Most of all Tony believes in performance over hype and #PowerToThePlayer.

Tony Covey

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Tony Covey





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      Harold w

      7 years ago

      Tony I worked on all three tours and what is stated by company’s is not true. I had my shafts in 43 players clubs on champions tour, you have heard of AccuFlex. A lot of players used Alpha 852 drivers with one player winning 3 times in one year. It’s still a great driver. There are many company’s that no one ever talks about. Like club I am bring out in to months that has a past with wins

      Reply

      Simon

      7 years ago

      Equipment will perform largely the same given that tolerances are predetermined by golf’s governing bodies. Players will choose to play whatever suits there eye and feel best if there is no financial incentive. It would be exactlt the same situation as us consumers. Its all about preference not performance. Because performance between different manufacturers will be the largely same

      Reply

      Chuck

      7 years ago

      A golf game based solely on player performance not club performance, what an idea. The landscape would definitely change, how many times have you switched clubs only to say I really liked this or that about my old set (feel,loft,weight,finish).

      Reply

      Jason

      7 years ago

      10-12 handicap lose some distance because of flip in iron swing. Senior player.
      Would I be better purchasing a cavity back or forged head iron with graphite shaft?
      Does it make a difference ?

      Reply

      Paul Meldrum

      7 years ago

      Ping and Mizuno would rule just like they did back before Tiger took big bucks to leave for Titleist.

      Reply

      Daniel

      7 years ago

      Don’t buy a new equipment get fit first. Look at Rory McIlroy switch back to his old iron and win they are force to play the new equipment because they are in contract if not they would use what is the Bess for them. Also tiger woods for years his been using the same irons even if Nike have a new one every year. The only difference is the get fit for what ever equipment they use. Get fit then you will know the difference. Then you decide if you need a new equipment .

      Reply

      Deadfish

      7 years ago

      That philosophy doesn’t work. You can’t get fitted without buying equipment. You also can’t get a blanket fitting without paying for it either. You have to buy the clubs you get fitted for, or you waste money and time. That is why a standard setup and off the rack clubs are the majority found in the bag.

      That would be like paying to get your foot measured for the perfect fitting shoe and not buying the shoe, or buying a shoe that fits, and paying for it to be custom fitted to your individual feet.

      You don’t see people getting a baseball glove fitted, or even a baseball bat. There is an ideal weight for a baseball bat and it differs just as much as golf clubs do to an individual, but you don’t go out and pay to have a bat fitted, you try them out and stick with what feels best.

      Golf is the same way. You buy clubs based on what feels best. It doesn’t have to be fitted. The pro’s benefit a lot from a proper fitting, as does every pro athlete in every sport with custom fitted equipment and gear. The average golfer doesn’t care, believe me. Golf is so blind and oblivious to it. You will never sell clubs on the mantra of get them fitted. If it was such a good idea, it wouldn’t be considered a niche market. Companies like Miura would be number one and Titleist would be further down the list. Look at sales, sales don’t lie. Over 70% of all new golf equipment is bought as is without being fitted. That is probably even a low percentage.

      Reply

      Geoff Morrison

      7 years ago

      M1/M2, Callaway fairways & hybrids, pxg irons, cleveland wedges, cameron putters, callaway chrome soft balls.

      Reply

      Richard Reberger

      7 years ago

      Callaway

      Reply

      Ryan Holcomb

      7 years ago

      Are we to assume Nike’s former R&D staff that made the custom equipment for the top Nike pros (Rory Tiger Wie etc) did a less than best job?

      Let’s assume Rory got exactly what he wanted and what was best from Nike when he had Nike clubs? Nike has the resources to build Rory what is best. Why then did Rory switch to TM when Nike closed club manufacturing?

      It all makes me highly speculative that Rory is getting paid an enormous amount from TM.

      Reply

      Ross Heard

      7 years ago

      Whatever or whichever feels most comfortable…

      Reply

      Matthew DeRidder

      7 years ago

      Taylormade drivers, callaway fairway, Adams comes back from the dead for hybrids, Wilson staff irons, vokey wedges, odyssey putters, ping bags, Wilson staff balls…yes they are better better than titleist.

      Reply

      Thomas Aulik

      7 years ago

      Back to wood woods and hickory shafts

      Reply

      Craig Connolly

      7 years ago

      Money being no option…PXG is in my bag. Absolutely love what they are doing

      Reply

      Edward Sherry

      7 years ago

      Here”s a thought–Pro PGA players can make no changes to his clubs and has to buy them off the shelf like the rest of us do–I think we would find out very quickly who the real pro’s are.

      Reply

      Donnie Garrette

      7 years ago

      Mizuno irons.

      Reply

      retired04

      7 years ago

      Back to the topic question-“what would happen if there were no equipment contracts in golf?” Answer-golf clubs would be cheaper, probably by quite a bit-BUT, gosh, how would we know what we should buy?

      Sure would be fun to know the actual dollars spent on contracts and freebies on the PGA tour and around the world – after all, we are the ones who actually pay for it.

      Reply

      Greg

      7 years ago

      Easy, get properly fitted. Get the clubs that work best for you and your swing. Not some pro that you swing nothing like. I have a calaway xr16 driver, m1 3 word a ping 5 wood. Mizuno irons. Mizuno 54 and 60 wedges and a arrow 52 wedge with a evenroll putter. I am loyaly to best club that best suits my swing. Git fitted fir ever club in my bag including my putter. At least until someones wants to pay me to put their clubs in my bag….. ;-)

      Reply

      Joe Golfer

      7 years ago

      I suppose we’d see a lot more variety on tour, especially with drivers, since TaylorMade spends a lot to put those in the bags of the pros.
      If pros have to purchase their own clubs, it also might lead to companies trying to find “perks” to induce them to use their clubs, even if no contracts are involved.
      I would imagine the companies would find a means to get those clubs into the pro’s bag for free.
      For example, we’ve all heard of big companies giving politicians trips to fancy exotic vacation spots for purposes of “business conferences”. The politician spends two hours at a conference, then has the rest of the day for free time with friends or family.
      Golf companies might do the same with pro golfers. There would likely be various types of perks, which I’m sure other forum users could think of.
      I think pros would experiment a lot more on the range, and you’d see a few big surprises of clubs that nobody has ever heard of, as pros even experiment occasionally on the course.
      Most companies can make a pretty good driver, so I think there would be more variety there. As for irons, I think pros would go more for the better forged iron companies, unlike most of us forum readers (who likely are not scratch golfers).

      Reply

      daggs

      7 years ago

      I would imagine a lot of pro’s would play better golf if they picked their own gear instead of playing what they are paid to.
      Some of them don’t even need to finish top 25 all year to earn millions.( mind you, you cant expect to do that if you still want sponsorship but!
      I would love to know how much gear would cost if we weren’t paying obscene amounts of money for the pro’s to play it.
      Lets face it its millions and millions. Look at any of the glossy magazines we can and do buy we pay millions of dollars world wide for a mag that is nearly 30% adds from the big guns.
      Would gear be more affordable ? I think so

      Reply

      Ashley Whitehouse

      7 years ago

      Go with Ping, every manufacturer tends to copy them, they have been the leaders

      Reply

      Albert Eng

      7 years ago

      TaylorMade woods, Ping hybrids, Mizuno irons, Cleveland wedges, Bettinardi putters. I’m not going into small boutique Japanese brands. That’s another category.

      Reply

      RAT

      7 years ago

      Wouldn’t it be great to see what would be the most played if there were no contracts? But that ain’t going to happen. I play what I like and that isn’t the “what was #1 on the Golf Digest”
      My equipment is not one of the most popular brands but has been around along time. I play them because they feel so much better and the performance is better than any of the mentioned here.
      Those were TaylorMade, Callaway, Macgregor, Adams, Titleist . I play WilsonStaff V2’s
      Because they are by far a better iron, the Driver again owned several and selected the Cobra ZL. The Putter : after cheap to expensive – Scotty’s , Odyssey’s , SeeMore, Bettinardi and other brands I play the Wilson first edition Vizor mallet. I do at times switch back to the 8802 model depends on the speed of the greens. But I know the Mags are getting ad money from these mfgs. So they have a HOTLIST report. I did read and article on MGS on their testing and rating of irons and they had selected the V2 iron as tops that year so I gave them a test try and loved them so I bought them . That was my first ever article that after I read it and decided to try that model. I didn’t pick these because all the pro’s were playing them I picked them because they perform . I would like to see ,if possible a test where the identity of the club is hidden and see the results of how the testers ranked them.

      Reply

      JB

      7 years ago

      The average golfer already asks “He plays what clubs?”.

      Titleist is number #1 ball in golf, but among what demographic? Depending on the course, what the pro shop sells, and so forth, plays a bigger role in what people play. For example; one course near by you can almost guarantee to find lost ProV1 golf balls, but go to a course 10 minutes away, and 1 in 5 lost balls are likely to be ProV1s.

      So the real question is, how would people view golfing equipment if pros weren’t paid to play it? There is a small market that pays attention to what they play, and every time there is a championship someone different wins and usually with different equipment. Not to mention the winner probably has the same clubs as the rest of the field so clearly brand isn’t what makes the difference. I’m sure if an M1 driver won a Major, everyone would go buy one, but if you look I bet there are 50 other M1 drivers that lost. That is like NASCAR, a Chevy, Ford, or Toyota wins, but there are far more of the same car that lose too.

      I’m willing to bet a lot of golfers, probably over half, don’t even follow the PGA and couldn’t tell you a single person on tour, except Tiger.

      At the same time you could use Tiger as an example, Nike probably took a huge hit from him leaving the game, but at the same time no other pro has that level of power and influence. So I don’t see how what a player plays being such a huge influence on what other buys.

      As for the pros. I think you would see a shift in scores. Good or bad because pro’s would play most likely what they do the best with performance wise.

      This would be like asking Jeff Gordon if he would ever drive a Ford…

      Reply

      Uhit

      7 years ago

      The point is:

      as soon as you have a (single) winner, it is proven, that one can win with this equippment…
      …thus you have the possibility to assume, that the equippment had contributed to the win.

      That one can lose, with this (or every other) equippment, is a no brainer…

      …and to assume that a equippment, that was never in a winning bag is the best equippment, is unlikely. – isn´t it?

      At a race, where half of the field drive a Chevy, and the other half of the field drive cars from a bunch of other manufactures, it is simply more probable that a Chevy wins…
      …is the Chevy responsible for the win, or simply the fact, that most drove a Chevy and therefore probably also a more talented driver drove one…

      …same for Titleist balls…

      Imagine a field with only one Ford – and this car wins…
      …then it is simply more probable, that this car contributed to the win and is therefore the best.

      Imagine the only player with Mizuno balls wins…

      However, racing cars have even less to do with cars, than golf clubs for professionals in comparison to golf clubs for Amateurs – not to talk about the balls!

      Reply

      JB

      7 years ago

      You help illustrate part of my point. The probability of a brand of club winning has a lot to do with how many are in the field. Titleist balls are almost always in the winning bag. Does that make them the best ball? Or is it because the chances of the winner having a Titleist ball much higher?

      The same goes for clubs. If TM is number one driver on tour, than chances are that a TM driver is in the winning bag. It doesn’t make that driver better. It simply means that TM had better odds to be in the winning bag.

      If tour pros weren’t paid to play equipment, I think it would be a lot different. There would actually be merit for equipment in the winning bag. For example Bryson won with Single Length irons in the bag, and now Cobra is being taken more seriously, as is Single Length Irons. If he played Titleist clubs, or TM clubs, and not Single Length, do you think it would have been as important? NO, because the odds are TM and/or Titleist would win anyways. Not a set of Cobra Single Length clubs. They have the least probability of winning. So those clubs have more merit because not everyone plays them. That is what I think would happen if tour pros weren’t paid to play equipment.

      The best equipment would hold merit because not everyone has it, so the winning with it will carry more weight.

      Uhit

      7 years ago

      You write what I already wrote, with your words…
      …which is fine, because we agree…
      …including my prediction from yesterday:

      Short: Cobra ONE lenght!

      Now, we just have to sit and wait, until we get our hands on fitted ONE lenght irons…

      Bradley M. Smith

      7 years ago

      I think they’d play whatever heads LOOKED/FELT best to them. And then they’d have them built with whichever shaft works/feels best for them. The iron heads would obviously be bent to the loft/lie that they want. I emphasize LOOK/FEEL because I believe that almost any brand of head, including drivers, with the right loft and lie (and for woods, face angle), and with the player’s preferred shaft, will make the golf ball do what the player wants.

      Reply

      Ken Lackey

      7 years ago

      I think the biggest change would be how long the guys keep clubs in their bags. They would not be changing clubs every time a newer line came out. Guys would find what worked for them and stick with it much, much longer. A few might be club ho’s, but most would not change often.

      Reply

      Jeffry Gardner

      7 years ago

      I’ve played without a contract for years. It’s worked out just fine in the long run.

      Reply

      Kevin

      7 years ago

      Why did you remove my comment? Is this not an open forum where I can post what I think?

      Reply

      dcorun

      7 years ago

      IMHO I think they would play a selection of clubs similar to what Ryan Moore did until he signed with PXG. I would recommend Cobra as an alternative since they make great clubs but, don’t have the money to spread around like Taylormade, Titliest and Callaway. Ping would be another but, I’m not sure they pay for play anyway. I would love to see what the big name players would play if it ever happened.

      Reply

      Tom Campbell

      7 years ago

      Very interesting topic…..I believe that any of the players on Tour are so talented that they could actually play any set of clubs and play well. They have each club specifically fitted to them, with the shafts tweaked as necessary. Their clubs are like fine tuned race cars. The ones we buy are like Chevy Malibu’s.

      I understand that most pro’s under contract need to play 10 of their sponsor’s clubs. That allows them4 clubs to select on their own. I have always looked at what those 4 clubs are. That tells me what they prefer, what they think is better. I do know a Ping pro must play a Ping putter.

      Most of original Scotty Cameron designs were Ping designs, whose patent had expired. He milled them from carbon steel which gave a heavier weight and softer feel than the Pings.

      Irons are different. The pro’s hit forged irons because of the feel and the fact they hit every shot on the sweet spot. They also have the availability of the Tour Trailers to have the loft and lies adjusted daily, if necessary. Most of us use game improvement irons. All game improvement irons are basically a take off on the Ping Eye 2’s of many, many years ago.

      They tweak the irons, for lower the lofts to make you think you hit longer and put dampening plastics to soften the feel. But, there has been little if any game improvement features since the Eye 2’s.

      Drivers and woods have been improved. These improve on a regular basis by moving the weighting around the 460cc hollow head. They also tweak sound and feel.. The pro’s play a $003-$400 shaft, which most of us cannot afford. The OEM’s put a name brand shaft in their products, but those shafts are simply watered-down versions of the big $ shafts

      OEM’s come out with something new every year, similar to the car companies. An older car will get you where you are going just as older clubs can get you the same score as new clubs.

      As for balls….I believe it was Lee Trevino who said “No one ever won by making a ball go backwards.” If I hit a Pinnacle high with a higher lofted iron…..it won’t run far once it hits the green. The pro’s only average 12 of 18 greens in regulation. They use the Tour balls to be able to work them high or low, left or right…….and they get them for free….or are paid to play the Tour balls.

      There is a lot of smoke and mirrors with golf equipment.

      It is the archer……not the arrow.

      Reply

      Uhit

      7 years ago

      I have seen several balls go backwards into the hole…
      …helping to lower the score. ;-)

      As long as you can choose the loft to reach the hole because of your high clubhead speed and your ability to play different types of shots, the ball is not as important as long as you are happy with the feel and the durability.

      But the farther the hole and the more restricted the clubhead speed, the more you gain due to a ball, that can stop quickly on a green – isn´t it.?

      Same with shots around the green:

      If you are not able (because of your restrictions in regard of your swing technic, or where the ball lies) to play a high shot with high swing speed and a lot of loft, you will struggle more, if you use a ball, that is not able to hold on a firm, fast green with severe down slope – isn´t it?

      Therefore I think, that a amateur would benefit more from a high spin tour ball, than a pro…

      …I guess that a lot of amateurs deny to see those advantages a more expensive high spin ball could give them – simply due to the higher costs.

      Reply

      timbo

      7 years ago

      Some tour pros say they are playing brand A when in fact if you look closer they are in fact brand B with brand A logo on it so does it really matter. We are all being conned that is the club golfer. The average club golfer’s handicap is only about 1 or 2 points lower in that last 20 years even with the so-called evolution in golf club design so it proves that it just does not really matter.

      Reply

      Phil Ross

      7 years ago

      Well I know I cannot hit it like the pros so I tend to select equipment with fitting and what feels best. In my way of thinking, having golfed for over 50 years, the equipment today is all outstanding. The key is to get fitted. It may also help to rob a bank to pay for this wonderful equipment.

      Reply

      Terry Wittek

      7 years ago

      They would offer free clubs and incentive based contracts. No guaranteed money. Prices of drivers and iron sets should drop about $100. Ball prices would probably drop $10. Probably the best thing that could happen to the industry.

      Reply

      Uhit

      7 years ago

      I think, that the situation we have nowadays in golf equipment is pretty darn good…
      …because the cash flow from former years gave the opportunity to create technology and design we can now choose from.

      The question posed is therefore not complete:

      Because it makes a whole lot of a difference whether we assume, that sponsoring was never existend before, or whether sponsoring created (at least a part of) the market with it´s goods (that we can now choose from)…

      …and which timeframe after now is viewed.

      For a correct answer we can not assume that all the things we have, tropped out of the sky within one night, and dismissing the story that has led to the situation we are in…
      …and we can not assume a static golf market (in a dynamic world).

      Simplyfied to a degree, where a answer has to have a certain degree of incorrectness, I would say, that within the foreseeable future, the single lenght iron golf clubs will sneak more and more into the bags of the professionals and the amateur golfer, and that Cobra will become a major player within the market.

      Short: Cobra ONE lenght

      Reply

      Steve

      7 years ago

      I believe Tour Players would simply stick to older models in their comfort zone. Manufacturers have fought this for years, as they need their players playing the latest models to drive sales.

      Reply

      McaseyM

      7 years ago

      Agreed!

      Reply

      Steve rhinefrank

      7 years ago

      of course we have all the usual suspects… if there were no tour contracts, who would fit and service gear for them ? a huge perk…

      Reply

      DPavs

      7 years ago

      I’ve often thought that it’s more about the money and the coddling than the equipment at some point. I wonder how much the average consumer cost could come down if all of the endorsement payments would go away.

      Reply

      Mike

      7 years ago

      I don’t think we’d see a significant price drop. For me $800 to $1000 for a set of new irons that I’d still need to put $5 to $600 into to fit properly is nuts. It’s still around a grand but getting them assembled by components that fit my body and swing in the first place has been working for this camper.
      Yes, I got off the shiny big name brand train some years ago. Balls? That’s a different story. Performance around and on the green is what scoring is all about. Premium balls will always be pricey off the shelf.

      Reply

      Jim Laliberte

      7 years ago

      I have been to a couple of pro fittings…

      And each time, I was fitted to Epon irons. I maintain that Japanese product is superior. I tried all the rest.

      Short and sweet.

      Reply

      Mike

      7 years ago

      I’m of that ilk that believes the right shaft for the average player is far more important than what’s at the end of it. The actual performance difference between one “comparable” 40 degree head to the next is negligible at best IMHO. You can take a high launch iron head, install a low launch shaft and magically the ball flight comes down. Robotic tests certainly bear that out.
      Fact is all studies have shown the majority of average players bag clubs that don’t fit them properly. As for the pros their equipment is meticulously fit to the last detail. Then of course there’s their fine tuned repeatable swings. What brand their bagging makes little difference. Are they dialed in that week is the bigger question. They’re as human as the rest of us. When they’re thinking about swing mechanics it’s a good bet they won’t be found at the top of the leader board.
      At the end of the day as far as any head goes it ends up being about feel, sound and looks. And for the average player not necessarily in that order. If all the 5-10 more yards nonsense were true double eagles would be at an all time high at the local muni. They’re not. The average player still can’t throw darts from 175 out.
      All that said if they were free of course I’d have the latest greatest heads at the end of my shafts.
      PS. I don’t want to minimize the grip. They can completely change how a club feels during a swing.

      Reply

      jlukes

      7 years ago

      Any reputable club maker/fitter will tell you otherwise. Club head first – then fine tune with shaft. Club head is much more important.

      Reply

      Mike

      7 years ago

      I’ll stick with those disreputable ones that put the engine and transmission first.

      Uhit

      7 years ago

      This may be the case because a reputable club fitter is probably known for his ability to create the best of the best that endures a certain amount of time…

      …and the clubhead is the thing, that sits closest to the ball the golfer is looking at. ;-)

      A clubfitter is for sure not keen to explain, why he prefers one head over the other…
      …maybe just for mechanical reasons (a forged head can be bend more reliable to the loft / lie angle the fitter wants, or a cast head that has a dedicated bend point in the hosel, like Ping heads).

      With a slippery grip, neither a shaft, nor a head will work fine…
      …it is like with tyres on a car:

      The engine can be as strong as you want, but if the tyres slip over the ground, you are going nowhere.

      See it this way:

      1. the grip

      2. the shaft

      3. the head

      …for the mechanics.

      1. the head

      2. the shaft

      3. the grip

      …for the psychological aspect.

      Now:

      what do you think has the stronger weight for your buying decision (and the club fitter)?

      Mike

      7 years ago

      In my experience (and robotic tests bear it out) apples to apples are about the same. Same degree loft iron heads on the same shaft will produces similar results. For the simple reason it’s what they’re designed to do. Yes, they’ve re-stamped a traditional 5 iron into a 6 and so on. Made the shaft longer and tell us they’re longer.
      Nothing will change a heads performance more for a player more than the shaft. Whether you’re talking about flex, weight, torque, bend point, length etc.. It’s by far the most important component. Couldn’t matter less how innovative the head is if the player can’t swing the club effectively.
      Toss some X-Stiff 135 gram shafts on a 20+ handicappers Pings and ugly won’t begin to describe the results. Put some Mizuno cavity backs (or even blades for that matter) on a properly fitted shaft for them and the results won’t be a lot different than his norm. Though possibly better as their equipment most likely doesn’t fit. A few less yards on miss hits would be the expected result as that player misses the sweet spot more often.
      As for the psychological aspect most think having big name brands in their bag will make their game better. In reality it doesn’t. Tests bear this out. Fitted clubs of any make and swing lessons will.
      A good musician can make a beat up guitar sound good. A player with a solid swing can make a 30 year old Kmart Northwestern look good. It’s always been about the swing and it always will be. That’s not to say technology hasn’t helped. I’m just among those that believe shaft technology has made a bigger difference. It’s what you’re actually swinging.

      Uhit

      7 years ago

      A robot has always a perfect grip – a human not.
      A robot arm can grip the club real tight without changing clubhead speed and flexibility in his joints – a human can not do that.
      A human reacts to the torque and twist of (miss-) hits – a robot has no problems in this regard.
      A human is feeling and sometimes thinking, what he is doing – not so a robot.

      A robot is fine for evaluating changes within certain things, but not in every regard, that can affect a human.

      Don´t get me wrong, robot testing is for most comparisons far superior, than human testing, and therfore unevitable for serious development and decision making.

      Without dismissing your points, I just want to add, that the weight distribution, the geometry of the sole (grind and bounce) and the precision the face is manufactured – including it´s grooves – is also important, and especially important in regard of miss-hits…

      …the torque and stiffness profile of a shaft is probably not optimizeable for miss-hits AND center-hits at the same time – simply due to the different forces it has to face, at the same club head speed.

      I think you have to optimize every part of the chain and maybe it is not always the same part, that has to be more optimized for the best (individual) results…
      …similar to a meal.

      Bernard Sheridan

      7 years ago

      I think we would see many players using different equipment than they do now. We would also see Woods one brand and irons another along with wedges and another brand for putters. We would see more of Mizuno irons and Vokey wedges. Putters would be Scotty and Woods Taylormade.

      Reply

      Michael Chua

      7 years ago

      Wilson Staff would have better iron sales.

      Reply

      jupe boland

      7 years ago

      Mizuno and Snell

      Reply

      Gary Hansberger

      7 years ago

      Without “The Tour” it is nearly impossible for companies to create credibility for their brand in today’s golf market. It was very different even going back to the 80’s when you could actually get a little toe hold on the market with a new product. Very hard today unless the company can pay their way in. Can PGX do It with their irons? Can somebody overtake Titleist in the ball category?
      Who beats Scotty Cameron at his own game in putters? You gonna get credibility in Wedges over Vokey, Ping, Cleveland, etc? Lots of questions and a great discussion point Tony.

      Reply

      Steve

      7 years ago

      They’ll play the clubs that give them the best chance at playing their best. The clubs that fit them and they have confidence in. The brand name could be any one from the major OEMS to an unknown.

      Reply

      Jaacob Bowden

      7 years ago

      Would definitely be cool to know who would play what without getting paid…but even if you don’t have an official equipment contract like some of the Nike players listed above, at least some companies still stuff players’ pockets to play their gear for the week.

      Reply

      jlukes

      7 years ago

      I think there is a misconception that if there were no contracts, that the pros would flock to smaller companies when in reality I think the opposite would be true.

      A lot of the pros grow up playing Titleist and Ping. Why? Because these are two of the most prominent green-grass (pro shop) brands. I think a lot of pros would simply continue to play those types of clubs, especially irons and putters. Odyssey putters would probably still be very prevalent on tour due to their cost and availability to top amateurs coming up.

      I think drivers/woods would be the most interesting segment in a no-contract scenario. You are already seeing Nike guys flock to TaylorMade drivers – Finau went to callaway because he was a Callaway Staffer prior to gaming Nike, so he has a comfort level there. Titleist and Ping would still have their guys that grow up playing those clubs and continue to on tour.

      Definitely interesting to think about and there are a lot of variables, but one thing I feel confident again saying is you would not see more players switching to smaller brands.

      Reply

      Howard Garson

      7 years ago

      It would be just a guess as to who would rise and who would fall among the major OEMs, but I would bet that a few of the component companies led by Miura would get a lot more play. That would be a worse case scenario for the major OEms and the big box guys, but a boon to the custom fitters, that the public would see that some of the component companies make products that the top pros play.

      Reply

      Raymond

      7 years ago

      Very much like the shafts and grips – where there is no pay-to-play, it would be purely on a merit and performance basis….
      Who is the number one in shafts (drivers, hybrid, irons?) and grips ? Who cares… as long as the results are customized to each player for preference and performance.

      This is why I choose to go to MyGolfSpy to inform us of the unbias facts and figures that really matter. Thank you MGS !

      Reply

      Mike

      7 years ago

      Agreed. And for the average player the most ignored components. The club motor is by far the most important component. The right grip-shaft combination for the player far outweighs the head in my experience. Lie, loft and swing weight adjustments when needed are the obvious fine tuning of that process.

      Reply

      Chad Mardesen

      7 years ago

      No manufacturer has the best in any category every year, so we would see a lot of switching…this year X driver, Y irons, etc….next year, different driver, different irons, etc.

      And we would absolutely see mixed bags across the board.

      We would also see more garage brands in putters…not necessarily because they are better, it would just open up more of that as an option.

      Reply

      Steve Ingerski

      7 years ago

      Not really a fan nor supporter of the “garage brand”. While the appearance and craftsmanship is sometimes really nice – they have basically zero R&D budget to validate what they are building

      Reply

      Chad Mardesen

      7 years ago

      I agree Steve. Most are just pretty copies of something already developed. However, if players are completely off contract, the putter world (especially the $1,000 plus models) would open up on tour. Many Tour pros would just commission cool stuff, etc.

      Reply

      Mark Ingebrigtsen

      7 years ago

      I played for awhile long time ago ……we had all kinds of clubs in bag, ping 1 iron, hogan or mizuno blades, Cleveland wedges or ping lob plus whatever putter looked good!!!! Taylor made was stong for driver but I really liked Founders as well

      Reply

      Camilo

      7 years ago

      On the other side I don’t believe there would be a No 1 at all. Everybody states people would play what they like, but st the end it won’t make much difference than what happens for us amateur players. Since we are not paid and most equipment costs mostly the same (except maybe for PXG and Miura and some other Nippon companies) , it happens most of us choose whatever we think is best. That’s why some praise for Titleist Irons, others for Mizuno and some of us for Wilson Staff in that department. And so on with every other piece of equipment. I really doubt there would be a mayor difference between brands, and surely none would get over a third of the market

      Reply

      Paul MacLeod

      7 years ago

      Callaway has the complete line

      Reply

      Glenn Forsyth

      7 years ago

      A lot more Tour Edge fairway woods.

      Reply

      Jason Pohl

      7 years ago

      You would see more TE exotics fairway woods on tour

      Reply

      Frank sallee

      7 years ago

      It’s simple for me: Taylor Made for the innovation of the Metal Woods and Karsten for the game improvement designs of the irons and putters. Everything since has been a copy in some sense or form?

      Reply

      Bryan Carroll

      7 years ago

      Ping or Titleist IMO?

      Reply

      Paul Kaye

      7 years ago

      Ping

      Reply

      Nate

      7 years ago

      Probably Miura, don’t they make a lot of the tour players irons anyway with the players sponsor logo stamped on the clubs?

      Reply

      jlukes

      7 years ago

      I think the scenario you reference is largely overblown.

      Reply

      Steve Ingerski

      7 years ago

      Taylor Made woods, Mizuno irons, Scotty Cameron putters

      Reply

      Daniel Favors

      7 years ago

      My thought exactly Steve.

      Reply

      Chris Peyton

      7 years ago

      I disagree … odyssey putter

      Reply

      Matt Heister

      7 years ago

      Whatever putter. It doesn’t matter .

      I can agree on the other 2 points

      Reply

      David Jones

      7 years ago

      Mizuno irons would be in most bags

      Reply

      jlukes

      7 years ago

      How so? There are tons of guys on tour that have driver-only contracts – yet even then you still see an extremely sparse amount of touring pros using mizuno irons – especially in the US.

      Reply

      Daniel Favors

      7 years ago

      MP-30s here Man!

      Reply

      David Jones

      7 years ago

      Replaced the exact same iron with MP4 two years ago and nothing comes close

      Reply

      Chris Peyton

      7 years ago

      MP25s … 8th set of Mizunos in 17 years of marriage !!!!!!!

      Reply

      Matt Heister

      7 years ago

      Mp5 is $

      Reply

      Tim McMahon

      7 years ago

      I have Ping driver and woods,..Mizuno irons

      Reply

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