Because reviving once popular franchise names that still resonate with consumers is all the rage in the golf equipment industry right now, Cobra has just announced the RETURN OF THE KING (by way of the new KING LTD Driver).
Rest assured that with KING LTD Cobra is doing a hell of a lot more than trading on nostalgia. What Cobra is doing is reinventing a classic while at the same time redefining the driver category for better players.
Before we dig in to the details, let me take just a second to point out that the KING LTD isn’t a replacement for anything in the current Cobra lineup. I expect we’ll see the evolution of FLY-Z, FLY-Z+, and FLY-Z XL carry-on in later announcements. The KING LTD is a brand new flagship offering.
The KING LTD Backstory
As you may (or may not) recall, last September COBRA PUMA GOLF partnered with The Center for the Advance of Science in Space (CASIS) and Nanoracks LLC on a six week materials science research investigation on-board the International Space Station.
If you’re wondering what the hell space has to do with golf, the short of it is that Cobra was trying to determine if they could learn something about material properties in a zero gravity environment that could be applied to golf products here on earth.
While I suspect we’re going to hear more about this whole outer space angle in future Cobra releases, the KING LTD product line is the first from Cobra that leverage bits of that research.
For example, the Cobra KING LTD is the first driver to feature a SpacePort. It’s got the official Space Is In It logo and everything.
The Obligatory Technology Chapter
As we move through a discussion of Cobra’s new technologies, the key thing to remember is that for all the bells, whistles, and shiny things that move, much of what makes KING LTD so compelling involves Cobra’s ability to save weight. As you should all know by now, saving weight in one place in order to reallocate it in a more desirable location is a large part of what club engineers strive to do with nearly every release.
So with that said, let’s look at the KING LTD tech that comes from space research.
TeXtreme Carbon – Used in the crown of the KING LTD, TeXtreme Carbon makes the crown 20% lighter than a standard carbon fiber offering. Not only is it lighter, TeXtreme is stronger and offers better surface smoothness.
SpacePort – The most visible technology on the KING LTD, SpacePort’s translucent window let’s golfers literally see inside the club.
Looking past any resemblance to TaylorMade’s R1 (if I don’t point it out, someone else will), there’s definitely a bit of a wow factor here, so it’s fair to ask if the giant hole in the bottom of Cobra’s new driver is actually purposeful.
Let’s put it all out there; golfers love visible tech (and it doesn’t get much more visible than SpacePort), but visible tech doesn’t preclude actual tech. SpacePort offers tangible benefits as well.
Firstly, SpacePort gives Cobra internal access to precisely dial-in swing weight with variable (0-14g) internal Tungsten weights. Secondly, Cobra leverages SpacePort to position weight low in the club head, while at the same time totally eliminating the need for hot melt (the glue clubmakers inject into driver heads to keep any small bits of debris that may come loose over time from rattling around). That saved another 4 grams, which, as you’ll see below, was used elsewhere to optimize launch and spin characteristics.
Should anything come loose (which Cobra says is highly unlikely given its internal structures), unscrew the SpacePort and shake it out.
SpacePort isn’t some factory-accessible-only thing either. Cobra wants you to open up your driver and take a look inside. The internal technology is actually labeled. The company wants you to see exactly how good the KING LTD is.
SPIRALOCK – SpacePort is viable because of the inclusion of a thread system specifically designed for high load and high vibration applications. The SPIRALOCK thread system prevents the Space Port from loosening or over-tightening during impact.
Functionally, what SPIRALOCK does is eliminate the need for additional support structures (specifically an internal port cover). Eliminating that cover saves Cobra another 6 grams and creates a clean, aerodynamic exterior.
Other Features
Not everything built into the KING LTD comes directly from space. Cobra has built in some earthly improvements as well.
Refined Hosel Design – Cobra’s adjustable hosel design is already the lightest in golf, but with some additional refinement the company was able to shave an additional 1 gram of weight (every little bit helps).
Don’t worry if you’re sitting on a pile of Cobra shafts. While the internal structures have changed, the tip adapters from BiO Cell and FLY-Z carry over.
Next Generation E9 Zoning – E9 Zoning is the Cobra technology that helps to preserve ball speed on off-center strikes. The new 811 TI face allowed Cobra to strategically thin out the face to increase ball speed on off center hits.
But Does It Perform?
So far we can tell you that the KING LTD looks cool and the technology stories are compelling. Most importantly, from a performance perspective, the mass properties are undeniable.
If you haven’t done so already, or need a bit of a refresher, absolutely go check out our story on Center of Gravity and why it actually matters.
For those not willing to take the time to read through our center of gravity articles (you’re missing out on important info), let me give you the 20 second version.
As the center of gravity (CG) moves towards rear of club, Moment of Inertia (MOI – forgiveness) increases.
As the CG pushes towards the neutral axis (an imaginary line running perpendicular to the center of face and through the rear of the club), efficiency – the undeniably important relationship between ball speed, launch angle, and spin rate improves.
From a design perspective, it’s very difficult to move CG closer to the neutral axis while also moving it back, which is why drivers designed outside the middle of the bell curve tend to either be low launch/low spin (Alpha DBD, SLDR, JPX-850, or very forgiving (G30 series, FLY-Z, 915), but seldom, if ever, both.
Claims of low spin with forgiveness, or distance with forgiveness, or any previous version of stories that promise distance without compromise, border on nonsense.
There’s always compromise.
When you wash away the layers of marketing mythology, more often than not you get a moderately forgiving, moderate spin driver. In terms of the bell curve and how it’s applied to golf equipment, no compromise has been repurposed to mean average.
Today that changes.
As another company was fond of saying not too long ago, you can’t argue with physics, and the physics – in this case, the mass properties of the KING LTD driver – make a compelling argument why Cobra will once again have the driver to beat in 2016.
Never Mind Apples…The Numbers to Numbers Comparison
With KING LTD, Cobra has created a driver with an MOI roughly equivalent to Cobra’s own FLY-Z+ (rear weight placement), PING’s G30 LS Tec and Titleist’s 915 D2, while pushing the CG closer to the neutral axis than anything other than Mizuno’s JPX-850 with the weight in its most-forward position.
In everyday terms, Cobra’s KING LTD will be one of the highest MOI (most forgiving) drivers on the market, and will also be among the lowest spinning. It’s important to note that, unlike TaylorMade’s SLDR, for example, KING LTD’s rear CG means you won’t have to sacrifice high launch to get low spin.
You get both, and that, along with high MOI, is the actual recipe for distance with forgiveness.
Cobra KING LTD Pro
Need even lower spin?
That’s where the KING LTD Pro comes in. The pro head is the same size and shape as the standard, but because the actual loft of the club is lower, the CG is pushed so low that it’s actually below the neutral axis. No other mass-market driver can make that claim. Cobra calls this ZERO CG technology.
The effect on MOI is minimal. While it’s not as high as it is in the standard model, it’s still in that same general MOI ballpark as FLY-Z+ (rear), LS Tec, and 915.
The Comparative Analysis
As we’ve already discussed, mass properties dictate driver performance. Have a look at the chart below. I’ve taken our 2015 CG/NA chart and dropped Cobra’s KING LTD drivers into place.
As you can plainly see, what Cobra has done with mass properties places the KING LTD in an entirely different space. The company is essentially without peer right now, and is arguably the only company in golf who can stake a legitimate claim to anything close to a true no compromise driver.
The KING LTD Series is anything but average.
Too Low Spin?
Educated readers will likely point out that with the CG close (and even below) the neutral axis, it’s possible KING LTD may not spin enough for some golfers. That’s actually the reason why Cobra produced both a standard and pro model. With up to 12° of loft available, even low spin players should be able to optimize launch conditions with the KING LTD.
For the majority of us, the extreme low spin characteristics of the new driver should prove to be beneficial.
Specs, Pricing, and Availability
The Cobra KING LTD is adjustable from 9.0° to 12.0° in ½ degree increments. Draw settings are available at 9.5°, 10.5°, and 11.5°. The stock shaft is an Aldila Rogue Black.
The Cobra KING LTD Pro is adjustable from 7.0° to 10.0° in ½ degree increments. Fade settings are available at 7.5°, 8.5°, and 9.5°. The stock shaft is also an Aldila Rogue Black.
Retail availability begins 10/1 at a suggested retail price of $449.99 (both standard and pro).
Mitch
9 months agoIs this technology (zero CG, CGNA) still relevant? I don’t really see any other brands claiming this anymore.
Fozcycle
3 years agoI gave the King LTD Pro a go at the Golfsmith launch monitor last night and was very impressed.. I also hit the Fly Z+ (both weight distributions) and still went back to the King LTD Pro….my distance was much longer. I did notice a bit of a leak to the right on most drives….which is okay if you can control it on the course. And I understand you can use the Bio Cell and Fly Z+ adapters with the King LTD Pro. I have a Paderson Kinteix shaft that I would love to try on it. Looks like I will have to return to golfsmith with my Fly Z+ and see what kind of trade in I can get.
I like the King Ltd Pro!
Addo
3 years agoFantastic looking club that looks great and feels great. Longer than the FlyZ + as well. And that’s saying something. It’s going in my bag ASAP.
GMack Golf
3 years agoMike, MGS has already tested the M1 out, but has not posted(that I have seen) the results for some reason. I think we would all love to see an updated CG/MOI chart.
dylan
3 years agoWhere does the Taylormade M1 fit on the chart of cg vs moi, in its multiple settings?
Mike
3 years agoDude, the M1 hasn’t even been released yet…
Dylan
3 years agoNor has the king cobra Ltd but that didn’t stop MGS!
Mike
3 years agoThe Cobra has been released for demo purposes since August…The M1…not so much…
Phil
3 years agoPretty sure the Cobra has been out for demo since August, but not the M1…
Phil
3 years agoAnyone know how the Bio Cell Pro spin rates will compare with the King Ltd Pro?
PaulMuehlemeyer
3 years agoTony, I’m currently playing a Cobra Fly Z with a Fubuki J. Shaft. I bought this club based on your driver tests and I have to say its been fantastic. I have a low (90) swing speed and this club and shaft combination has me hitting the ball farther than ever and I’m now a senior golfer. Do you think the new Cobra driver with its lower and closer to the central axis CG will be even more efficient? I really appreciate your articles and look forward to more. Thanks
Paul Muehlemeyer
3 years agoI’ sorry I meant Tony.
Paul Muehlemeyer
3 years agoTom, I love all of this information you are making available. I have a Fly Z that I recently shafted with a Fubuki J and a 4 gram heavier weight which should help me get a higher launch. I also have a RBZ Stage 2 tour head that says 10.5* but I have it set to the highest loft setting to close the face (it now sits square) and it measures 13* with the face square. I have a low(90) swing speed but this driver has been phenomenal. Can you tell me where this club would fall into the CG and MOI chart? I believe this club is where TM started the forward CG higher loft marketing. They still seem to have quite a following. Did TM hit on something special with these? Thanks for your great articles and I look forward to more.
Gmack
3 years agoTony, great stuff!! It’s nice to hear the facts in clear english like this as to the Marketing hype we usually get. I currently game an R1 Tour Issue I got from a friend that is on the Champions Tour. I put a White Tie(5X3) in it. It has been a wonderful driver. I don’t know where it would place on your chart, but would be curious? As a high spin player, this is the first Driver that has given me decent spin numbers(upper 2000’s). I’m a fitter as well and I have tried about 8 different drivers on the low spin side of your chart(I’m always looking do lower my spin numbers). Didn’t like the feel of any of them(I think I now understand why). A couple were good enough to take to the course, but I found that the shot high on the face and/or on the toe was no good when it was actually a hot spot on my R1. So the R1 went right back in the bag. Maybe you could expand on this and tell us how the King LTD might fare in the same situation?
I also tell my customers that have a slower swing speed or are already low spin players to try the G30. I now understand why that is also correct. I have also sent all three articles to a number of my customers because of how informative they are. Thanks again!
Tony Covey
3 years agoGmack
The R1 remains a scary good driver for the right golfer. It has what I would describe as a high/forward CG. I’m not certain how much or how little the tour version deviates from the retail.
Observationally the R1 works well for a golfer who:
1) Generates above average head speed.
2) Has a neutral to slightly negative angle of attack.
3) Consistently strikes the ball well above the center of the face.
That last one is what makes this specific type of golfer a relatively small percentage of the larger golfer population.
These are guys who the charts say will get best results from lower launch (ballpark 9°-11°), and mid to even high spin (2800-3400 give or take).
Am I close to your characteristics?
From a fitting perspective, this group will generally see good results from R1, Double Black Diamond (Core Up), and even Nike Vapor Pro.
The higher CG placement of these drivers more closely aligns the CG with the point of impact for this type of golfer, and that helps transfer the energy of the club to the ball more efficiently. The trade-off is that spin numbers will jump significantly when impact drops below the CG – and distance will suffer because of it.
Not having spent enough time with the KING LTD to say definitively how it will respond to the conditions above, I would suggest these are the conditions that could prove an issue for the LTD.
Will the more stable structure (lower CGNA), higher MOI, and reduced spin that comes from above CG contact match or improve the efficiency?
In a limited test of a single player with the swing factors listed above (retail R1 with Oban Kiyoshi White vs. KING LTD Aldila Rogue Silver 125 MSI) the King LTD was the longer of the two.
What I can’t say with any degree of certainty is what role the shaft played in the difference, and I certainly wouldn’t assume that the results would hold over a larger sample size.
What I can say is that the limited size suggests the King LTD can’t be ruled out.
Gmack
3 years agoThe high/forward CG makes total sense. The R1 Tour Issue is lower spinning with internal weighting. I guess that means, after reading your stuff, even more high/forward CG.
(1)My clubhead speed is about 104 to 106mph.
(2)Until this past year(Flightscope purchase) I probably had a neutral to slightly negative AOA as you mention. Now I am +2 to 4*. Not consistant though. When it is up, so are my mph’s. If I don’t pay attention, it slides back down to neutral quite easily and I loose speed. That seems to be my natural tendency.
(3)I tee it high and move the ball forward in my stance to generate the higher AOA. I think that’s why I tend to miss it high on the face sometimes. I need to state, it’s my misses that tend to be high on the face.
Yes, my spin fluctuates between 2800 and 3200rpm’s.
I have a DBD in my demo cart. I’ll try it as such.
You are very close to my characteristics.
It seems you are saying, that these clubs will do well with my natural tendencies. Do you feel I should continue to work on my AOA and try something else(like the King LTD Pro) or let my natural tendencies go?
It seems that you are saying, and it makes sense, that I should stick with high/forward CG if I allow my natural tendencies. If I go with the positive AOA, I may be able to use something with a lower CG. Keep in mind, my number one concern is spin. Second, and also important, miss hits.
I always thought a positive AOA was the way to go if possible? Do you agree?
To be honest, most of the clubs that I’ve tried were high/forward CG. But none of them felt anywhere near as good(to me). It is mostly the feel as the reason I have stuck with the R1. Feel is also why I’m intrigued by the King LTD with the low spin/high MOI.
Tony Covey
3 years agoThere is simply no better way to increase distance than to increase angle of attack. When you decrease spin loft (the difference between dynamic loft and angle of attack) you increase efficiency. There’s a lot more to be gained by going from -3° to +3° or more on average than from buying a new driver.
I stumbled across a +6° AoA guy looking for a driver earlier this season. His club speed is around 100MPH give or take, but the efficiency of his swing allows him to basically maximize every variable. He was launching around 13° with 2800-3100 with his previous driver. With those conditions his best balls were going in the 265 range. He’s a low single digit golfer, accurate with the driver, but the guys he plays with on a regular basis hit it consistently 285-300 yards. He wanted to keep up.
He asked if I could give him more distance…I laughed and said, “oh yeah…this is as easy as it gets”. I had him try a bunch of different options in most stock configurations to see what head he liked. He settled on FLY-Z+ and then we set to work getting him dialed in. Because of his above average control we decided to push the boundaries a little bit (when it’s possible to get there, I like 14/2100 as a baseline for guys in his swing speed range), but with the weight forward, even with a lightweight shaft, I got him consistently launching at 15° and 1900 RPM. For a lesser ball striker, I might try and push the spin up a bit more.
Best ball to best ball, he’s picked up 20 yards, and is in the ball park of 15 yards longer on average.
The point of this story is that a guy who’s strongly positive, not only is he going to get more distance than a guy with a negative to neutral AoA, it opens up the entire catalog from a fitting perspective. If his preference was for lower launch and more spin…say 12/2400 that was achievable. If he wanted to push the boundaries even further (17/1700), I’m confident I could have gotten him close.
Generally, for +AoA guys you have a lot of options. With negative guys…especially strongly negative, more often than not your fighting just to maintain a comfortable launch angle without creating too much spin. I never like to compromise launch angle just to reduce spin, but that said, on a couple of occasions, with strongly negative AoA guys I’ve had to settle for 9° and 3500. With strongly positive AoA guys, I never have to settle for anything.
Gmack
3 years agoOnce again, great stuff. What about low spin shafts for both of these players. What weight do you recommend as well.
chad
3 years agoGolf Channel’s Morning Drive just did a a Ricky interview with him hitting 3 or 4 shots on course and the Sound is AWESOME. Just what I had been searching for.
Jack
3 years agoLoving my Mizuno JPX-850 for all the reasons explained above and the “How Golf Club Center of Gravity Makes a Huge Difference” article. But will definitely be giving this club a demo when it is released! Love the temptation combo of highest MOI, and will also be among the lowest spinning.
Dee Miller
3 years agoYou know I have a very hard time buying into your marketing data. Based on the 2015 Driver tests that you conducted I bought a Cobra Fly Z + driver and am very disappointed. It has been no better than and actually worse than the Taylormade RBZ driver (!st model) that I currently use. Both clubs have the same identical shaft which has been pured and aligned at the 12 deg setting.
Casey
3 years agoSounds like you are a player who needs the extra spin on a driver. Not all drivers will fit all players.
Desmond
3 years agoPioneers get arrows in their back.
This may be a short term hit, and a long term dud if this Zero stuff makes it another SLDR.
Denny Cox
3 years agoWhen will it be available to the public??
Jack
3 years agoRetail 10.1.2015
Matt wiseley
3 years agoTony,
Great article and great explanation on the technical side.
I am a high spin player with a 2hdcp. I live in NM with high altitude so I play the G30ls with a low spin custom shaft. I still have Rpms around 3300 with the ping. Here at home, I lose distance but doesn’t kill me. (Swing speed 110). I just got back from a west coast golf trip (pebble/Bandon), my drives were going no where. I have to lower spin but need to keep forgiveness. I will be one to get the Cobra pro version. Question- what are the reviews on the stock shaft in this club?
Great stuff, keep up the good work…love this website.
Thanks
Tony Covey
3 years ago@Matt – as with a good majority of the stock shafts, Cobra has gone fairly middle of the road (at least I’d call it middle of the road) with the Aldila Rogue Black. It’s a reasonable stable offering, but fairly mid/mid in terms of the relative ball flight. I’ve played the Rogue Sliver Tour 125 MSI in my Fly-Z+. I may stick with that even in the lower spinning head, but we’ve also seen good spin reduction from the Aldila Tour Green (which I suspect will be a zero-charge alternative).
Matt Carter
3 years agoI have the exact same trouble with spin and about the same swing speed. I too use the Ping G30 low spin and custom tour shaft. It’s a great club if not the best for my swing, but the distance, spin, and roll-out still leaves something to be desired. At times I pick up a rogue 295 yard drive but repeating it with the spin issue just leaves you scratching your head.
Gordon
3 years agoI am more then enthralled with this club!
I have to ask, is the stock shaft “Made For” or Proprietary?
I know the shafts in last years Fly Z and Fly z + were the real deal, just had cobra specifics graphics.
I cannot imagine that Cobra would put this out with anything other than a real deal shaft…also, any specs on the shaft length for this beautiful piece of hardware?
Tony Covey
3 years ago@Gordon – real deal shaft with custom orange graphics for Cobra.
Gordon
3 years agoThanks Tony, that is good news.
JimR
3 years agoLets throw the new Krank driver into the mx. It is LONG & used by many of the long drive guys. Must be a reason !!!
Tony Covey
3 years ago@JimR – Krank drivers border on horrible for the average golfer. The tall face has extremely negative CG consequences – basically it raises it significantly.
If you have a strongly positive angle of attack, and consistently hit the ball above the center of the face (which is exactly what long drivers do), Krank drivers will perform well. They are built for long drive.
The reality is that an overwhelming majority of golfers hit down on the ball, and do not consistently make above center contact. For those golfers (again – the majority), Krank’s design causes a higher than average amount of vertical gearing, which causes a significant increase in spin rate.
That all translates to significant decreases in distance.
Wayne F
3 years agoNot sure about this shaft – why this one?
Tony Covey
3 years ago@Wayne F – The Rouge Black is fairly mainstream. It’s a safe middle of the bell curve offering. Pretty typical of what you find as stock in many drivers.
Wayne F
3 years agoNot familiar with this shaft and reviews or opinions on this?
Regis
3 years agoI’ve gamed every brand over a lot of years. TMAG has always been the girl I brought to the dance however. A lot has to do with the adjustable shaft adaptor which allows me to entertain my harem of shafts. But based on this site I recently bought a Fly Z and a couple of adaptors. I’ve only got an 85 mph swing speed and my SLDR is probably longer on best hits, but I can work the ball with the Cobra, flight it in the wind, and I’ve never had a club that I enjoy as much. Never. I popped a GD Tour AD shaft on it and I never got that shaft to work on any other head. It probably has to do with all that CG mumbo jumbo but you called the Fly Z (and the +) this time last year, and I expect the LTD to become a hit across all handicap ranges. They just have great engineers/designers.
Max
3 years agoCan’t wait to see some numbers and reviews for this.
ComeOnSense
3 years agoThis is great news for me, looks like the Fly Z+ driver I’m waiting to buy will drop in price a lot faster now.Sweet!!!
Hula_Rock
3 years ago“Cobra was trying to determine if they could learn something about material properties in a zero gravity environment that could be applied to golf products here on earth”
…….can’t wait to see what “mumbo-jumbo” they come up wtih, its a pretty cool concept though
Steve C
3 years agoI like Cobra but WHAT A LOT of NONSENSE.
Max COR is Max COR. This driver will have to comply therefore the smash factor will be in line with every other driver out there.
That leaves swingspeed, lighter is faster for SOME. 270 gram total weight drivers have been around for years.
Which leaves spin, most companies have low/mid/high spin drivers already. Nothing new here.
Which leaves ‘forgiveness’, fantastic strides have already been made in this area, companies are left scratching around for minute improvements which may be discernable under lab testing conditions but out on the course they are invisible to the golfer.
This industry is becoming laughable.
Tony Covey
3 years agoFactually you’re incorrect on multiple accounts.
Yes, max core is max core – and for all manufacturers that applies to the center of the face. Nobody, for example, is near max core 10mm towards the toe. So when we speak in terms of average distance from impact all over the face (where golfers actually hit the ball), there are still distance gains to be found.
Face technology (shaping, strategic thinning, etc.) helps get some of that back, but moving the CG closer to the neutral axis also preserves ball speed as it provides for a more stable head. That was the actual benefit of TaylorMade’s Low/Forward…it put the CG closer to the neutral axis, but did so at the expense of MOI (because it was forward).
The KING LTD’s CG is closer to the neutral axis than SLDR’s was, but Cobra was able to do it while pushing the weight back. It’s the closest thing we have today to SLDR efficiency and G30 forgiveness. SLDR was low launch, low spin, and was terribly unforgiving.
KING LTD is high launch, extremely low spin, and among the most forgiving drivers on the market. This isn’t marketing double-speak it’s mass properties and physics. That’s the real issue…golfers have been so overwhelmed with marketing nonsense, they can’t distinguish between puffery and scientific reality.
Regarding Smash Factor… Smash factor is a measurement of compression, which is most directly tied to what Trackman calls spin loft. It’s the relationship between dynamic loft and angle of attack (dynamic loft is directly influenced by CG placement, and the evidence suggests AoA is influences as well).
The problem with your comment,and others like it, is that it begins with the assertion that CT/COR and by extension ball speed is the exclusive dictator of distance. It’s not. It’s piece of the puzzle…a large piece, but not the only piece.
Launch angle and spin rate also play a significant role in determining distance. In simple terms Cobra’s mass properties (again…this is physics, not marketing), create a more favorable relationship between the two. Specifically, higher launch with lower spin, while at the same time PRESERVING ball speed. Golfers aren’t used to thinking in terms like ‘efficiency’, but that’s the real benefit of the mass properties of the KING LTD.
The chart isn’t marketing, it’s an industry-standard mass properties measurement.
Lighter drivers have severe limitations. Lower weight means lower MOI (MOI is, in part, a function of the mass at impact), and because of what it takes to reduce total mass is limited, which means there’s little discretionary mass. As a result, on a comparative basis, basically every lightweight driver has what can best be described as a high middle CG placement. That is the trade-off for weight. With currently available materials, it’s unavoidable.
ryebread
3 years agoGreat response. Thank you.
This represents a combination of the G30 and the SLDR. Sounds good to me.
Gmack
3 years agoEXACTLY!!! Sorry Steve C, but you exposed yourself there.
Steve C
3 years agoThought i’d revisit this now its been hit.
Factually its no longer than last years model or the years before that.
Mark Crossfield had 262 yards carry, the same as every other drivers he’s hit in the last 5 years.
So whats the use in talk of space ports and techobabble if the ball isn’t going any further.
I repeat, utter nonsense.
GMack Golf
3 years agoSteve C, you need to spend more time reading and less time spewing. Tony has explained this to you already. This Driver’s potential is to have a low C of G(low spin) and a high MOI(larger sweet spot). This has never been done.
But, unless I missed it, Tony never said it would be longer. The COR has been the same for all Drivers for years. So, this driver being longer by itself is unlikely. What he is saying is that it has the potential to be longer on the miss hit. Yes, we all have those.
This is about forgiveness for the high spin player. We have never had that before. That’s exciting assuming the science in this club equals results. Until that is found out, how about giving Cobra, MGS & Tony some slack.
Michael Brands
3 years agoGiedo Steenbergen en Bart Keuper you’re time has come buddies!
Peter
3 years agoWhat is the black small rounded piece beside the spaceport in the first picture? I that some kind of adjustable weight?
Tony Covey
3 years ago@Peter – that’s actually the additional bit of tooling (it’s a cap of sorts) necessary to remove the SpacePort cover. It’s what allows you to open the driver up and take a look inside.
Sam
3 years agoWill the LTD Pro be a smaller head? I’m used to 445cc smaller heads.
Tony Covey
3 years ago@Sam – Same sized head. Lower loft and flatter lie angle. It pushes CG even lower (below neutral axis) than the standard version.
Doug Uridil
3 years agoWhere would the Cobra L4V end up on that chart? I haven’t found a driver with launch and spin numbers as well as extremely forgiving from off center strikes. I love everything about the new head and may have to give it a shot.
Thanks, Doug
Dan Newman
3 years agoWill hard to say no Travis Jack Daniel Head
Will o'the Glen
3 years agoYour definition of neutral axis is incomplete, but based on the references to it in the article I am assuming that you mean a line perpendicular to the geometric center of the face…
Putting the CG far back as possible reduces the effect of vertical mishits, i.e., missing the sweet spot high or low. Ideal impact point on face is as close as possible to a point which is the endpoint of a perpendicular line to the CG. That being said, angle of attack is very important to amount of spin generated, and ball aerodynamics are important to how much spin is optimal. Shaft characteristics affect club head response to mishits, too.
Bottom line is: position of CG in club head is one of MANY factors affecting ball flight, and not necessarily the most important.
Tony Covey
3 years agoYes…we should have said “center of the face” in our brief explanation of the neutral axis (or impulse line or CG projection as it’s sometimes called).
But, I will assert that CG placement is without question THE MOST IMPORTANT design aspect that impacts ball flight. Yes, Angle of Attack is important, but that’s not a club design specification – and perhaps more to the point, our testing has shown that CG placement actually influences angle of attack.
From purely a design perspective, you have face technologies Cobra’s E9, TaylorMade’s inverted cone, etc… because everyone is at the CT/COR limit for center of the face, those technologies really only impact off center performance. Beyond that nearly every other performance aspect boils down to CG placement.
Dynamic Loft – a product of CG placement.
Spin Rates – a product of CG placement.
MOI – – a product of CG placement.
Spin loft – the relationship between dynamic loft and spin, and perhaps the most effective measurement we have for efficiency of strike (Trackman describes Spin Loft as “compression itself”) is a direct result of CG placement.
Everything golf companies do with materials. and weight is done to effect movement in CG. As I said, from a design perspective, it’s unquestionably the single most important thing.
Mark
3 years agoVERY interesting. Have never played a Cobra driver and was pretty convinced my next one was going to be a discounted R15 this winter but now I may have to wait and see …
Josh Rigdon
3 years agoJeremy Billy
Jeremy White
3 years agoI’ll pass
Krizar
3 years agoA few thoughts: driver looks really nice, but I hope there’s a few options other than orange (hope cobra keeps the colour options)
And no article on the irons? They look amazing as well
Tony Covey
3 years agoCobra is telling me that LTD will only be available in black. Nevertheless, I’m angling for a blue one.
Iron article forthcoming. We had limited time and decided to feature the driver since we believe it will be one of the most compelling products over the next season.
Krizar
3 years agoThe black I like, it’s the orange trim I hope to change. I guess it wouldn’t be too hard to fill though.
Cobra Nut
3 years agoAcetone my friend and you can lose the orange if you want as for me I love orange and will keep it on the head.
Colby Evans
3 years agoSo will one be able to see wall to wall inside? And do you know what the stock head weight is? Just curious if the weight adjustability will be enough for those that like shorter and heavier swing weights. Oh, and that orange color of the spaceport window makes it look a lot like the Mac Burrows driver
martin buckland
3 years agothis looks great cant wait to try it i just hope that it has the same sound and feel off the face as my current driver(zl encore) as all the new ones have that horrible tinny feel where you cant feel the ball on the face i have tried every make out there nothing comes close the the encore
Alex Goodyear
3 years agoMackenzie Clark this thing looks like a beast
Jon Bennet
3 years agoFugley!!!!
Mark
3 years agodid you look at this picture? http://www.mygolfspy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/crown2.jpg
I’m not a Cobra fan boy but THAT is far from ugly and you can’t see the bottom of the club at address … I don’t see the problem
Colin Howe
3 years agoAnother joke the industry is selling, see a lot of buyers here already sucked in!
Peewee Aguirre
3 years agoBili na Andrei Cornejo
JP Handicap 5
3 years agoLooks incredible, I’m a Titleist fan through and through but this does look impressive.
Only problem I have is as usual the standard shaft options that is very average.
Again I’m sure they’ve done a lot of R&D on this and the club performs well ( I hope)
but just feel with such a revolutionary design that more shaft options should be available to actually increase your customer base.
They probably going to catch me hook line and sinker on this driver but outlay to get a light high end shaft for 115+mph swing speed is going to be a discussion for another forum.
Regis
3 years agoI’m at the other end of the swing speed/handicap spectrum but I agree. I’ve played Titleist Drivers and their big selling point (at least to me) is the great variety of shafts available. That’s why I believe if a manufacturer is going to market to a large range of golfers either have a variety of shaft options or make the head only available
Nick Sykes
3 years agoBen Simpson
Brandon Asay
3 years agoIs TeXtreme the new Venollum? Remember that amazing material they came up with two years ago for the Bio Cell + and have not used in a driver since. Do people really still buy all this marketing? Does any other sport on the planet do this? Is there a constant line of new baseball bats with “space in it” promising faster ball speeds and more forgiving? Give it a couple months after release and pay 1/2 price thats how golf works these days.
golfercraig
3 years agoThe short answer is “Yes.” Every other sector of sporting goods that uses an implement does the exact same thing. Hockey, lacrosse, baseball, softball, tennis. All of them.
Tony Covey
3 years ago@Brandon – as with any most everything else, Venollum was an earlier part of what I guess is now an ongoing mass properties project at Cobra. Venollum was lighter than what they had previously used, which propelled the technology forward a bit, but ultimately wasn’t light enough to get them to where they are today.
Keep in mind that no matter the company and no matter the material, in metalwood design, when companies talk about specific materials what they’re really doing is putting a name on whatever it happens to be that allows them to SAVE WEIGHT while MAINTAINING or IMPROVING STRENGTH.
While nobody other than Cobra (and occasionally PING and Titleist) actually use the phrase “mass properties”, that’s really what everyone is ACTUALLY talking about. Saving weight to impact CG movement. In many (most cases), a collection of structurally intensive gimmickry limits what can actually be achieved.
What I would suggest is that you and everyone else study our CG charts. These aren’t marketing influenced at all. It’s 100 measured with industry standard equipment. I think it paints the clearest lines between who is focusing on advancing technology and who is focused on marketing.
The materials will constantly change because companies (both inside and outside of golf) are constantly developing new composites and alloys. When lighter/stronger materials become affordable enough to support requisite retail margins, those things find their way into golf products.
Trent Palmer
3 years agoThat sucks then everyone will have it
Kevin Williams
3 years agoyou have the chemicals
Kevin Williams
3 years agoTrent Palmer you can put that chemical in this driver really easy
Deb Brittain
3 years agoBasics guys….
PLAY GREAT GOLF
3 years agoI think stuff like this are great
SB
3 years agoTo da moooon !
Josh Church
3 years agoMark Attebery how do I get one and how much will it cost me?!
es
3 years agolistened to the press release, the technology sounds incredibly cool, like when they said, that port hole in the space shuttle… yup we used that technology and put it in a driver.
however the one thing that did stand out was when they said… the technology and engineering in this driver is super duper cool, but just wait until you see what we’re working on next. we’re super excited about that and it’ll put this to shame…. (I’m paraphrasing and I was doing work while listening but that’s what it sounded like to me)
Tony Covey
3 years ago@ES – I actually asked Cobra’s Mike Yagley exactly that question (perhaps with a bit more colorful language). All he would say is “we have some ideas”.
I think it’s reasonably easy to make some projections. CT is maxed, so center contact ball speed is done. There are still huge gains to be made with off center contact (imagine a face that maintained ball speed across 75, 80, 90% of the face. We’re a long way from that but that’s a direction of work.
For higher spin players, you can still push CG lower and get some benefit. Ultimately, I think the roadmap will be two fold…
1) Push the CG even further back, while keeping it on or just below the neutral axis. Think about a zero CG driver with higher MOI than a G30.
2) Find new materials that allow you to accomplish #1, while still saving enough weight in your basic structures such that you can put adjustable mass back into the head. The reason why LTD doesn’t have flipping, sliding, or otherwise adjustable weight like FLY-Z+ is that there’s a weight cost to those structures.
So if I’m Cobra, long term goal is an adjustable zero CG driver with the highest MOI on the market.
chad
3 years agoTony,
I thought I read their was adjustability, but only through club fitters and manufacturing directly?
Tony Covey
3 years ago@Chad – Other than loft/lie/face angle adjustability from the hosel, there is an internal tungsten weight (generally for swing weighting purposes). My understanding is that the weight is epoxied in place at build time, and is not consumer adjustable replaceable.
Rich Gronlier
3 years agoSteven Iglesias
Arnie Kourtjian
3 years agoNick Goodman
3 years agoAndrew Soppitt
Ryan
3 years agoI must say being a huge fan of the Bio Cell Pro I was upset the Fly Z never came with a Pro version so I went with the 915 D3 7.5 loft this year. Looks like the 915 D3 just became my backup driver. King LTD Pro is going straight into the bag! Always been a huge fan of Cobra products and they actually put legit R&D into thier stuff not like the other “marketing” golf companies out there.
Will
3 years ago“Zero CG” is a meaningless marketing buzzphrase, and there are so many other factors that come into play to affect ball flight in terms of launch and carry that CG location is only one term (and not necessarily the most important…) in the equation.
Gary K. McCormick
3 years agoTheir physics is not as impressive as they make it sound.
Jonathan Holmes
3 years agoGraham Mitton is it Christmas today big man?
Jon
3 years agoI read this and I’m confused by all this tech talk: why is this better for ordinary Joes like me than the Fly-Z+ I bought last month? What would the difference be for a normal swing? Lower spin isn’t a good thing for us necessarily.
Tom
3 years agoIt may not be for you. They kind of went into that in the article and the press conference. They designed it more towards Tour to 10 handicap. But for the Joe’s that want to try it, that’s why they give you the ability to loft it up to 12*, so that you can get a high launch (max carry) with low spin (max roll). It’s up to you and/or your fitter to dial it in properly to find those max settings, but the science behind this theoretically gives you the best shot of efficiency once it’s dialed in.
Jon
3 years agoThanks Tom – that’s what I thought. I suspect it’ll be better to stick with my Fly-Z+ which is 20 yards longer than my 915D2. Loving it. But if this were better, guess what I’d do!
One other question: did they only talk about drivers in this event? I had an email trailing the news conference that I missed that referred to hybrids and fairway woods too.
Tom
3 years agoYeah, they only spoke this driver. I don’t even believe that they spoke of the LTD Pro referenced above, but I might have missed that. They eluded that other ventures would be coming, but they couldn’t speak to any at this time. The irons that were in the brief video shown at the beginning were very Amp-eqsue. They featured what looked to be similar to the fangs of the non-forged Amp irons, but with tungsten inserts, a little more weight in the muscle portion, and an acoustic baffler in an elongated diamond.
McaseyM
3 years agoWow, those are some sweet specs. Being a big Cobra fan for my long ball (previously an AMP, currently Fly-Z+), it’s sweet to see them pushing the design and technology. Also LOVE to see the KING moniker return. You guys called it early when they dished the info on the Fly-Z line, and I hope this one can continue the Cobra run for the long ball.
Rémy Al Homsi
3 years agoGuilhem Verdier
Guilhem Verdier
3 years agoFaut voir en vrai, ça a l’air de faire bizarre la grosse mass slot…
Teaj
3 years agodo we know if the open settings are because of the adapter in the shaft or does it have to do with the head. I would probably want the slightly higher spin with the option to open the face as the quack hooks can come into play with closed faced drivers.
Tom
3 years agoSince the adapters work for all of their heads, it’s in the head design. If you take the adapters for each of the different heads, you’ll see that they tilt a little bit and it’s that tilt that gives each head it’s specified loft.
Ryan Crespi
3 years agoMichael Creath Joshua Arndt
Ali Mirza
3 years agoMy next driver.
David Hopf
3 years agoMeister Lampe
Donovan Childers
3 years agoTin can
Sylvanus Edmund Lau
3 years agoWhat would Vici martynov say?
Golfercraig
3 years agoInteresting. Too bad TM fired/lost all their R&D guys. Cobra and Callaway reaping the rewards.
Guy Crawford
3 years agoGood! Now the fairway finding bomber Fly Z will drop the price even more! Time to go shopping!!
Amen Corner
3 years agoOne good comments. I’m with on this.
AndyUK
3 years agoI take it this was the driver you guys Tweeted about a few days ago??
From all the info above and the graph, it truly is a driver out on it’s own…definitely one I’ll try when it comes out and that’s a big admission from a die-hard Titleist fan!
Would of thought that good club fitters are going to love this if they can easily manipulate swing weight due to access through the Space Port.
Tony Covey
3 years ago@AndyUK – Yup…this was the one.
Regarding the internal tungsten weight. That’s the one piece that’s factory installed. Fitters can determine the appropriate swing weight, but Cobra’s custom department has to do the work.
Marshall Hanson
3 years agoJustin Cameron Derek Tyler Cody
Cliff Morgan
3 years agoRandy Conley
Anna Joe Sanders
3 years agostrange looking thing
PLAY GREAT GOLF
3 years agoI agree Nice :p
Matthew Deibert
3 years agoJesse
Pierre-Pete LaBrecque
3 years agoI’m sold. Can’t wait to try both models to compare numbers.
Chris
3 years agoI know you guys have done a lot of stuff about discounting, but at 449, or 500 would it be that big of a difference in performance over the fly-z selling for around 185 right now? Would love to see some numbers on performance (please don’t tell me I have to wait till next spring!!)
mygolfspy
3 years agoTotally understand your concern. Unfortunately we can not answer that just yet. To know how much better it is compared to the field we would need to test it against all the other drivers in 2016 and with the same amount of testers as we did in 2015.
That being said the physics behind this design are in unchartered territory. Quite a leap forward in that regards.
Jon
3 years agoHave you hit it?
Stephen Olalia
3 years agoGotta have this hahaha
Gorse Richard
3 years agoglory hole?
PLAY GREAT GOLF
3 years agoNice 🙂
Brad Meadows
3 years agoLee Embler
Matt Ames
3 years agoDennis Ames
PLAY GREAT GOLF
3 years ago🙂
Dennis Ames
3 years agoSOLD .. BABY lets go !!!!
Nigel Day
3 years agoFantastic article, so much info .
Peter Rowling
3 years agoIf the insert is flexible at all it will give the face a spring affect therfore pumping the ball out long and hard with less spin
Jeff J Jay
3 years agoSome where to put your stash for the round how thoughtful
Canuto Ledezma
3 years agoJeremy Ramon
PLAY GREAT GOLF
3 years agoYeah Awesome thanks a lot :
Ronald Kuntoro
3 years agoThe one in the middle looks like a processor…. maybe you can use the driver for browsing the net…LOL!
Lui Camporeale
3 years agoPeter Rowling Peter Gaby Juan Hung Lo King Cobra makes a comeback
Chris Embardino
3 years agoI have to wonder about the integrity of that spaceport. Any time you add a hole, you decrease the integrity of the outer shell. Granted they probably did a lot of testing, I generally don’t feel comfortable with large holes like that.
Paul
3 years agoWow. That driver just moved to the top of my list of “must get fit for” drivers! I loved my G30, but it was 10 yards + shorter than my Bertha… If I can get more distance and forgiveness than the LS Tec I tried at a demo day, this club will be tough to beat. Especially given that it will keep the spin down!!! Awesome! Low spin, and forgiveness… Great news for high-spin players like me!
Ray Murphy
3 years agoDavid Tomlinson get it
PLAY GREAT GOLF
3 years agoAgreed… 🙂