GET UP! – Taylormade Is Kicking Your Ass!
News

GET UP! – Taylormade Is Kicking Your Ass!

GET UP! – Taylormade Is Kicking Your Ass!

KNOCKOUT!!!!

4,5,6….GET UP!!!….7,8,9…..IT’S OVER…..KNOCKOUT!!!!!

(In comes the corner man to administer the smelling salts)

Come on kid…you can do better than that.  You looked liked Michael Spinks fighting Mike Tyson (VIDEO) out there.

Golf and Boxing are rarely used in analogies to draw comparisons between the two sports.  Although…I think when it comes to the major equipment manufacturers there is no better way to describe how Taylormade Golf is literally destroying its competition.  And the sad thing is…no one is really even challenging them to take their belt away.  At this point the distance they have put between themselves and the #1 contender is so large that I don’t see anyone catching up to them for years to come.

There haven’t been many people in the industry more critical of Taylormade Golf than myself (If you know of one by all means let me know)…but even I am willing to admit what has become painfully obvious….Taylormade is “King Of The Hill” and every one else is playing for scraps.  Market strategies for the major companies all look similar on paper…increase market share for metawoods, maximize exposure of irons, have a strong presence in the golf ball category, etc, etc, etc.  The only difference is that Taylormade has achieved every market strategy they have forecasted…and the rest well…like I said they’re playing for scraps.

HOW ARE THEY KICKING THE COMPETITION’S ASSES?

Well in many ways…but one of them is simple…MARKETING & CREATIVITY!  Now you might be saying well Taylormade has more money to allocate to marketing compared to the other golf companies.  And you would be partially correct…but even that is not 100% true.  But even if it were 100% true that does not mean that the other companies should just be packing it in and hanging their heads in defeat.  You don’t have to look too far to find other companies in other industries that have risen to the top without possessing the largest advertising budgets.  Times have changed and their are countless ways to get more bang for your buck with the ad dollars your spend.  Its all about creativity…something the golf industry is desperately lacking.

At this point when it comes to golf equipment and how well it performs there isn’t that much that separates the top from the bottom.  And even less when your talking 1st and lets say 5th place.  With the difference between almost every equipment category being so close…you have to do something to stand out in a crowded space.  And standing out in a crowded space is just what Taylormade is doing.

For example if you watched this past weeks’ tournament you might have noticed some red hearts on players hats, headcovers, balls and drivers.  It is part of a campaign Taylormade is calling “#DriverLove”.  Sounds pretty simple right…and it is…but simple is often the most effective when it comes to marketing.

WHY DOES IT WORK?

Why does it work?  Because you’re not used to seeing it on golfers hats when they play in tournaments.  Everybody on tour is sponsored by someone…and they all have something in common with their sponsorships…they all wear the companies logos on their gear.  Thats great if your a newcomer and your logo gets seen on TV…but if your competing against all the other manufactures to be noticed it doesn’t really get it done.  It’s almost like when you see a company online promoting “FREE SHIPPING ON ORDERS OVER $100”.  We have almost become blind to this type of promo…because everyone is already doing that.  The heart on the hats this week made people stop and look and ask themselves, “What is that?”  That’s what Taylormade wanted you to do…and that’s exactly what viewers did.  And the cost of this type of promotion could be done on a much smaller budget than your typical ad campaign.

Similar to their white drivers.  Nothing groundbreaking when your talking about technology…it’s just paint right?  But when your talking marketing it’s nothing less than genius.  At the time almost every driver was black…so when your watching the tournament on TV and you now see a white driver you automatically know it’s a Taylormade driver.  Once again simple…but effective…very effective…just ask Taylormade or your local proshop.

And this year…it’s all about RocketBallz.  I don’t know how many people emailed or commented on our site about how stupid the name was…but you couldn’t be more wrong.  That name got two things to happen.

  • One:  It got people talking about their new line-up more than any other line-up coming out in 2012.
  • Two: It got you looking at a club that almost no one talks about anymore…the Fairway Wood.

The fairway wood hype was once again genius.  Now I don’t know if this is how the discussions actually happened within Taylormade…but this is how I see it.  No driver is talked about more than every new release by Taylormade…but what do you do when the chatter starts to calm down and you don’t really have any new ground-breaking technology to hype this year and you want to milk the white thing as long as possible?  Well…simple…you move to a club that no one is competing for…thats right…the Fairway Wood.  The fairway wood has almost been forgotten about in the consumers minds…the hybrid has almost completely taken its place.

So to keep peoples eyes on your brand why not push technology in a club that hasn’t really been pushed.  Like I said the club has almost been forgotten about so it wouldn’t take that much in regards to a yardage increase claim to get people not only talking about it but more importantly talking about your brand.  And that is exactly what is happening…there is no club being talked about more than the 2012 Taylormade RocketBallz fairway wood right now.  And whether or not people buy it is almost insignificant at this point…because even if consumers don’t (which they will) they will still look at other Taylormade offerings at the same time…with the assumption they will be just as good.

And this is just the start of the brilliant marketing ideas Taylormade has incorporated to get golfers talking about their gear…of yeah and before I forget…anyone remember the R11 Foul Pole at the Sand Diego Padres home field?

Like I said none of these ideas are what you would call “Rocket Science”.  Companies outside the golf industry deploy similar concepts all the time.  But up until this point Taylormade is the only one in the golf industry willing to get out in front and try different things.  Crazy thing is you would think that by now other companies would get it…but trust me they don’t.  I talk to people all the time from inside the other golf companies who convey what they are working on…some are good…most are just too old-fashioned and out of touch…and the rest just have me shaking my head.

So Who Could Challenge Taylormade?

Like I stated previously…no matter if the following companies started yesterday with a campaign to actually try and challenge TM for “King Of The Hill”, I think it would still be at least 2-3 years before anyone actually starts to take any reasonable amount of the market share away from them.  But I also stated earlier that this doesn’t mean that just because it will take time, money and hard work that they should throw in the towel…which is the way it looks now.

Callaway Golf

In my opinion they still have the best chance at taking Taylormade head on…but they are going to have to seriously change the image of the brand at this point.  They have some great product but majorly lack aggressiveness when it comes to marketing their line-up.  They need to get younger in their message…which they are attempting with the whole Justin Timberlake thing.  But up to this point I still think they are missing the mark.  I still think to some degree they are relying on the past to determine their future…and in todays time nothing will put you in the grave faster than watching grass grown under your feet and being complacent.

Adams Golf

An up and comer with a real shot at leap-frogging over many brands to reach the top the quickest.  Year in and year out Adams Golf puts out products that perform just as good and often better than anyone else in the business.  They continue to push the envelope of technology and have really become a pioneer in producing ground-breaking technologies that other companies love to employ in their own lines. Problem is not many people know this…many consumers still look at them as a hyrbid company geared towards the senior.  But this couldn’t be further from the truth.  In my opinion I would rate them #1 in actual product performance if you’re looking at a brands products from top to bottom.

We have discussed it quite a few times amongst myself and others at MGS…but at this point if Adams Golf wants to play with the big boys it wouldn’t be that hard to do.  But it would take some balls…first thing I would do is change your slogan to, “Adams Golf – Better Than Taylormade!” One sentence wouldn’t get you to the top but it would get everyone looking at you in a different light and taking you seriously.  And to be truthfully honest…the slogan claim might just be right.

Cleveland Golf

Now this is one company that has got some money behind them if they really wanted to take a shot at the title.  But money will never buy you good product…especially across an entire line-up.  You have to actually come up with something golfers are compelled to try, then buy and then tell others about.  In my opinion there are not many golf companies that have missed the mark more often than Cleveland Golf in the past few years.  To me it seems like they are a brand lost in the dark.  When you used to think of Cleveland you used to at least think wedges.  Although now…it seems as though they are just throwing random spaghetti noodles at the wall to see what sticks.  But one thing that is great about having lots of money…it affords you the chance to take risks and lots of them.  So you never know…maybe we will see some changes next year at Cleveland…maybe they will get the ship turned in the right direction and they will begin to be known for something other than a wedge line from years past.

Nike Golf

Talk about money…I have said it before but there aren’t many companies that can launch themselves at least into the competition as quickly as one with the name Nike behind it.  And I will give it to them…they have improved year in and year out with their entire line-up.  But for whatever reason no matter how good their line-up is there is a group of consumers that just don’t seem to take them seriously.  I see it all the time…we will have a positive review of a Nike product or I will be talking to someone about Nike’s golf products and they will tell me, “I don’t care how good it is…it’s Nike…I won’t play it.”

There are a a couple reasons for this reaction towards the brand in my opinion.  One of the biggest ones I think goes back to the money.  As an example let’s take two friends you might have had growing up:  one that always had to scrape by, worked for everything he got in life, eventually became wealthy and for this reason was looked at by his peers as someone that deserved everything good he got in life.  Then the other kid had a trust fund with millions of dollars in it…he was a nice guy, but you always saw him get whatever he wanted in life, spent money like it was a bottomless pit, and you felt would never really have to work hard the rest of his life.

There is always some level of resentment from most people about individuals or companies like this in their lives. Not always fair…but it does happen.  And in this case I don’t think it is 100% fair towards Nike either.  But the problem is this is a perception about Nike that might always be there about the brand.  The feeling that they bought their way in and never really had to work hard to get where they have gotten.  Unfortunate but true.  In the end it should just be about who makes the best equipment for your game…end of story.

Titleist

Well Titleist in my mind has no desire to take Taylormade on or any other leader.  They seem to be happy with where they are…and in my opinion they should be for the most part.  But like I said being complacent will bury you quick nowadays.  So just because you are happy where you are does not mean that you don’t need to push the categories that make you who you are.

Titleist I think will always be about the ball more than their clubs…simple math equation will tell you that.  Their ball is worth umpteen times more than the club division.  But I still feel they have a perception issue with their club division and maybe with their ball now as well.  In the ball department they have always been one to push the technology whereas with the clubs they usually let other people be the pioneers, then wait to see what was going to stick around and then and only then try and improve on everybody else’s technology.  Both models worked in the past.  But a couple things have changed since then.

When it came to Titleist clubs in the past they had always been perceived as being of higher quality and the better golfer almost never strayed from the brand.  That isn’t so true today.  Lots of lower handicap golfers are moving away from the brand in my opinion and the quality of clubs thing…well…there are lots of companies making good product nowadays.

And the ball division once owned the market…and they still do.  But even that piece of the pie is shrinking…companies like Taylormade and Bridgestone and even Callaway are beginning to make really good golf balls that are considered just as good as the “King Of All Kings” the Pro V1.  Now I’m not saying Titleist doesn’t make as good or better balls than they ever have…because they do…but a lot of this is about perception…and many people would say that the perception of Titleist golf balls is not the same as it once was.

Who Will Be The Next “King Of The Hill”?

Well…to be honest I don’t see them being dethroned anytime soon.  But no quicker way to starting your way back to the top than coming out with something revolutionary.  So who has the next “titanium” for the golf industry?  Many people say there aren’t any great new technologies left to discover.  100% Total BS.  There are tons of new technologies the golf industry could employ…they just aren’t looking in the right places.  Also most aren’t willing to take a risk…they prefer to evolutionize and not revolutionize technology.  Which is great for the TM business model…they can keep plugging along like a computer company…continuously coming out with a slightly faster computer chip year after year and people will keep buying it.  Problem for the other companies is if they don’t do something fairly ground-breaking pretty soon they might be forgotten about like so many of the other companies have been in recent years.

In the past couple years alone I have had more than a few think-tank type conversations and seen technology in person that could be on the horizon and could completely change the golf industry.  Some of this stuff would blow your mind & golf companies minds as well.  Shame is…like I said this industry lacks creativity and the ability to think outside the box.  So until they can get past only being able to look at bottom lines & playing games of follow the leader…they will continue to get knocked out by their competition…if anyone wonders who that is…it will be the guy standing at the top of the hill with his foot on your throats and a heart on his hat.

The Challenge Is There…Now Who Has The Balls To Step in The Ring?

For You

For You

Golf Wedges
Apr 16, 2024
Vokey WedgeWorks Low Bounce K Grind Wedge
News
Apr 16, 2024
It Was A Masters To Forget For LIV Golf
Golf Apparel
Apr 16, 2024
adidas Pioneers Next Generation of Lightweight Golf Garments
MyGolfSpy

MyGolfSpy

MyGolfSpy

Our mission is #ConsumerFirst. We are here to help educate and empower golfers. We want you to get the most out of your money, time and performance. That means providing you with equipment reviews you can trust, as well as honest reporting on the latest issues affecting the game today. #PowerToThePlayer

MyGolfSpy

MyGolfSpy

MyGolfSpy

MyGolfSpy

MyGolfSpy

MyGolfSpy

Driver Ping G30 Hybrids PXG 0317
3/4 IRON PXG 0311XF 5-GW Srixon Z 565
SW PXG 0317 LW PXG 0311
Putter EVNROLL  
MyGolfSpy

MyGolfSpy

MyGolfSpy





    This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.

      MCoz

      11 years ago

      Taylormade’s ownership of Adams won’t kill the brand. In fact TMAG recognizes that Adams is very innovative and a brand that has had very little sales outside of the US because they don’t have that properly set up to do so. TMAG does have that structure and they will pay for the purchase price of Adams within two years or less with the increases in the Adams business worldwide. Their purchase did two things, one it gave TMAG a solid alternate brand that will further compete against the “stodgy” competition, and secondly it keeps the Adams innovative team away from the other OEMs. This was really THE story of the year in 2012 when it comes to golf equipment manufacturing! Brilliant move by the biggest mover in Golf—TMAG.

      Reply

      AG Pro

      11 years ago

      Hi, without reading every single reply I haven’t heard anyone mention the TM buyout of Adams Golf. So that’s one rival taken care out. Callaway razr product is easily the best performance product range available on the market. Their forged composite is a game changer, I have tested this over 2 years across all ability levels and the results are staggering. I will list below the results I see everyday through fitting and testing.

      Basically if your driver clubhead speed exceeds 80 mph there’s no longer driver than the razr hawk. Not razr fit, but hawk.
      If your less than 80 mph chances are its going to be Cleveland SL 270 most likely with a high loft.

      With irons TM is the distance leader with the 2.0 fact. However the differance is not anywhere close to what is claimed. On top of this dispersion is horrific! Cheap over length shafts with little or no quality controls, never good.
      When it comes to dispersion there is one clear brand winner and that’s Ping. Although not long the g range of irons are incredibly accurate. Best all rounder would again be Callaway razrX. These are a great trade off, not just as tight as the Pings but close. Not as long as the 2.0 but again close.
      Adams a12 pro hybrids are easily the best performance hybrids out there, but get them quick before TM destroy their innovation in favour of profit.

      As for any other brand, forget it. Titleist, Cobra, Nike and the rest.

      Its unfortunate but golf is a marketing business. TM are great at it and the rest are not!

      This is based solely on my own experience fitting players of all abilities, there will be those who disagree with my simplicity in relation to these brands and I accept we are all differant. I would offer this piece of advise to anyone considering changing their equipment, ask your fitter/pro to recommend a few options for you but also to completely cover the clubs before you proceed. If you don’t know what it is chances are you will pick the correct club based on performance, but then again there will be those who won’t

      Goodluck.

      Reply

      Peter Vlassis

      12 years ago

      As a father of two boys that both play junior and high school golf Callaway Pre Owned saved my bank account. Being able to trade in every year that they grew out of last years clubs really helped their games. One of the marketing strategies that companies use is to get their products in people hands at an early age and hope they stick with them forever.

      Reply

      mike wilson

      12 years ago

      As far as adams being the innovators of excellent technology I couldn’t agree more. However who have they just been bought by??? Thats right… Taylormade!

      Reply

      lucyver

      12 years ago

      Bridgestone Golf. They are testing the water with ball industry right now, and its only a matter of time they jump in and be the future leader.

      Reply

      Martyn

      12 years ago

      I was giving RBZ some grief as I bought one in the shaft I thought was right (it wasn’t) just tried a pals with stiff shaft, wow it’s straight and long, he’s lent them to me to try (bloody nice chap) Still searching for a driver to beat TM burner 09 stiff 49 g shaft 10.5, swing speed 97mph, spin 2700, side spin 250 rpm smash factor 1.5!!!!!!!!! any ideas from you boys in USA?

      Reply

      Martyn

      12 years ago

      R.P thats for interesting comments much appreciated, we cannot get good club fitting as say, Bronson Wright suggests (rev golf)I went for a driver fitting, i said preferred Titleist 910, he gave me shaft and head what flightscope suggested, it didn’t work, so instead of changing shaft he changed club, again and again, trying to desperately find a club which I hit better than my exsisting driver! Unless one is prepared to spend big more on fitting an average golfer trys and buys more or less off the shelf. I do know my swing speed, launch angle etc so have a good idea of what I need, just tried RBZ 4 wood, thought it good but out on course just can’t get it going. May trade back in against new driver if my next “proper” fitting gives me the desired 15 yd increase in distance coupled with accuracy!

      Reply

      Martyn

      12 years ago

      I have just bought a RBZ 4 wood, it’s all hype, I cannot get the stupid thing going. totally fed up with it, handicap 8 so not a bad player. sure to be put on Ebay next week. what a waste of my wife’s hard earned money. will stick with Callaway Octane, Also just spent some more of her dosh on a set of Ping i20’s, comments? What is the best driver shaft combo put there?

      Reply

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      Does your golf store accept 30-day returns? Better than eBay, if so.

      Personally, I’ve had a great time with the free-upgrade black Project X shaft in my i20 driver. I feel like I get the ballflight of a stouter shaft, but a much softer feel than the stock TFC707.

      Based on your post, and I hope you don’t mind me saying this, I’m falling in love with your wife…

      Reply

      R. P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Martyn, that’s unfortunate,,Out of curiosity, what was your experience like in buying the RBZ?..Did you just pick one off of the rack, basing your shaft choice on prior purchases, or did you hit it into a net with/with-out a monitor, etc…Playing to an 8, you can obviously swing a club & usually your experience happens to a mid-high capper..Regarding driver shaft combination, I would never base it off of what someone says, regardless of who they are..I play in a SWAT & of the other 15 guys who play(all between +4 to 8 hdcap), only two share the same shaft, and if you asked each of us, we’d all swear that the head/shaft combo that we hit is “the best”..The point is, while suggestions can be made regarding brands & models, you should go to a facility/individual that can have you put up some numbers & fit you accordingly..Otherwise, there’s a good chance that you’ll have a repeat of your RBZ experience, & I wouldn’t want to explain that to your wife..lol..The best to ya…Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Rich I know what model yr talking about now, ya that wouldnt surprise me about how their cut, welcome to China. Unfortunetly thats not enough proof to convince people like Kflare and the simple fact that the circle Ts are worth over a grand is another dead give away that todays market camerons arnt the same, I cant fathom why people cant understand that I mean its so obvious but people dont want to beleive that that can happen and it happens all the time. Anyway if I were you Id sell your retail camerons of today or trade them in for other things . good luck.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      k flare you dont give up man lol, thats ok I admire that you stick to yr guns and I can respect that, but Ill tell you one thing you will never ever get Titleist or Scotty to admit to it and if I were them I wouldnt either ,it would be awfully stupid for them to come out and tell the world our putters are not made like the used to be. As far as factual evidence I cant get anything in writing thats kinda silly, but when it comes to computers and sending pics Im computer illiterate unfortunetly. The sad thing is you really cant get things like that out in writing . If you want proof the retail ones today have more of a hollow click sound and are not as soft as the ones in the 90s early 2000s. If you can find an old platinum from that time you will notice a heavier softer feel and you will notice the balance more.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Rich if its from 95 and its in good condition like you say it is Id say its worth 5 to 700 but it also depends on the shape, anser style ones are the most popular and also with this economy you might have to go 3 to 400. Its the circle Ts that are worth over a grand on ebay , but yr putter is definetly worth more than the retail ones thats for sure, will you get what you want for it , thats a tough call with the ecomomy and all.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      The ’95 Coronado looks more like the old Bulls eye flange than the anser..There’s a picture of it in the archives section of the Scotty site…I’ll say one thing..My pro Platinum feels different(better) than any of the Studio Select putters(Newport, Fastback, Kombi S) that I have…What really bothered me was I had three of my Studio Selects regripped with the black “Mini Ts” grips, and the when the guy took off the old grips he brought two of the putters out & held them up..The top of both shafts were cut uneven, and @ an angle, & very ragged..So ragged that it would snag or tear your shirt if you brushed it across it..This is a $300 putter, not some $69 Dick’s Maxfli special…The third had an even, smooth cut, but come on..He’s gotta do better than that..Though, maybe not, as long as guys like me will pay that(now $350) for his putters…I did buy the new Monterey, & I do like the deep milling, though I can’t put those two putters out of my mind…For $300, we deserve better!..Ron, thanx again for the info…Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Ron, I’ve got a Scotty 1995 Classics Coronado, pristine + condition…Conservatively, what do you think it would bring?..I finished the season with it & it’s got an amazing pop to it..Thanx…Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Rich thanks but its ok those comments by others dont bother me because theres always going to be ”THAT GUY” on here but to be honest with KFLARE and JONW Im not trying to down them at all Im sure their not bad guys at all just alittle mis informed about this business. Im just here to inform people to be careful what they buy in this business because people who dont understand that and go half cocked and pay 400 for a cameron putter for instance thinking their getting a quality putter because of the name today is the main reason why their prices are what they are. People need to research this stuff because with golf OEMS the quality they think their getting alot of times their not.

      Reply

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      Ron, I’ll dispense with the ad hominem jabs, but I will challenge you to provide factual evidence that anything I’ve said in this thread is false. Now bear in mind that facts are based on logic and truth, not simply your opinions even if years of experience back it up…

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Jon W you seem to have a BS answer for everything, Im saying that as a company to put a cheap shaft in the clubs every year instead of putting a half way decent made shaft like other companys do tells you their not a company to trust, ya they invented alot of different things in the driver and the original metal wood I understand that and kudos to them for doing that, but for 400 bucks a driver and still not put the most important part in it means their quality sucks big time, they made tons of money through bogus painted shafts to look like the ones on tour and hiding TM made for logos under grips and paying every non staff pro 1800 bucks a week to use their clubs is a sad way to get where there at, and you say thats business GIVE ME A F…… BREAK WILL YA.

      Reply

      Martyn

      12 years ago

      read all the TM comments with interest, tried R11 and R11s and they do not perform as well as my 09 Burner, maybe the 49 gram stiff shaft just suits me perfect. All the hype with TM and for me they are nowhere as good as thought they would be, not to say that as most tour pros use TM ‘s drivers that they are not the best! How do drivers get longer when the COR is set at 0.83? can only be the shaft? I need another 15 yds on my driver but it’s like misson impossible, the odd driver goes longer but is inconsistant, so looks like I will have to improve with longer irons and fairways

      Reply

      Jon W.

      12 years ago

      Sell like a whore would, wow Ron, that’s intelligent. They are a different company for sure, one that isnt afraid to try something new, try something no one has ever seen before, stand behind what they have started, and most of all believe in it. They are different because they stand alone, they have pulled away from everyone else in the pack. They have re-invented the metal wood and how the average amateur can now be properly fit with technology to hit it straighter and farther. Now all the other brands want the hype as well. TM kick ass and take names. Everyone else is looking up at TM for a while now, I dont see any changes on the horizon either.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      RP Jacobs I forgot to mention in the process the lathe the cameron used for ones back then and circle Ts is slower , so to be more teediuos with every area of the head and more attention to detail. Today that wouldnt keep up with the time Titleist needs them which is why they had to go a different faster and cheaper direction in making them which is why they were forced to mass make them in china. fairways and greens my man.

      Reply

      R. P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Ron, Thanx….Fairways & Greens 4ever…..

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      RP Jacobs I would say that you could get 4 to 500 easily for it, just go on ebay and look for what people are selling them for, I saw one in terrible condition in Edwin Watts and they wanted 230.00 for it and this thing looked like its been through a man with the worst temper in the world. Its mostly the real GSS they use in them back then and they were made by him and his team which is why the balance and make is so good. Circle Ts were made by him personally which still feel the same as the ol platinums but they have more custom spec options, lie angle paint fill etc. Also the weights on the bottom of todays retail jobs are made from a lighter cheaper alloy than the ones on the circle Ts, I hope this helps.

      Reply

      R. P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Thanks Ron, it did help..I’ve never really been on ebay(I’m an IT midget & my personal use consists of this type of posting) though I’m gonna check it out..A guy told me that the Newport Beach Circle T was worth $2-2400, though by putting my initials on the front toe, I devalued it by $4-500..Oh well..It’s my plan to keep that one as long as I’m around..Interesting that Scotty’s taken the usual US manufacturer’s road to Asia..Maybe that was the Titleist influence?..Anyway, thanx..And please, call me Richard..Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Kflare I respect your comments and to answer some of them Ill start with the age thing, when I was around 6 I didnt know nothing about golf I was around it, what I meant by saying 35 years is a combination of being around it and eventually getting involved from people I know that were very informed in the equipment industry as the reason why I got involved . No Ill admit Im not the most educated person in the world because my mommy and daddy cant afford to send me to these fancy colleges like some people have, I got into this business through connections people I knew in which I was very lucky. But my knowledge of equipment in general is very good, I dont know what your agenda is with me but it sounds like you work in these golf stores, why else would you be trying your dammest to protect their image. I always knew miura uses the same metal as OEM companies its 1025. For you to say the camerons of 12 years ago and the circle Ts are the same as the shit in the stores tells me 2 things about you, 1 is that you dont have a clue in hell what you are talking about, 2 is that you have absolutlely no feel for this game at all, 3 as I mentioned befre you obviously work or manage a golf outlet and your trying to protect the cameron name. Just knowing that you think camerons are the same tells me one thing, that Iam wasting my time with you. Fact , the retail camerons do not I repeat do not use real german steel in their market putters like they used to. The ones 12 years ago and the circle Ts are 100 percent real german steel , if you had any feel like I do you would know this easy but you dont . Not only that but the knowledge Im lucky to have tells me its not the same, as soon as he got his name established Titleist forced him to go the mass route, like you said its BUSINESS. What am I to do jump through hoops giving you info of where I get this knowledge and bringing peoples names into this, Im too smart for that. When I stated the cost of the make of a Ti driver head that was ball park figures and nothing else, It obviuosly cost more than that to make the whole club itself, Yes their in business to make a profit I understand that but Im just telling you what I personally think their worth thats all . I have nothing against people buying golf equipment Im just giving them my opinion from what I know , why who made you god. MYGOLFSPY T does a terrific job on here I know that but this is after all a taylormade showdown isnt it. You mentioned irons are better made today well some are very well made nike vr pro for instance, a guy I know told me at the pga show last year he talked to an iron expert and he said by looking at the vr pro irons they were a better quality made iron compared to all the others. You accually think the 2011 TM mb heads are in the same league quality wise as the ben hogan apex irons from the 80s and the Titleist tour models of 84 and 660s and 680s from ten years ago your absolutely NUTS and know absolutetly nothing about quality iron forgings and if you cant feel the difference you obviously have NO talent. Yes they have more forgiving high tech irons today I know that but do you think the ping i10 is better advanced than the eye 2 your wrong again, thats why they couldnt give those ”high tech” irons away for 200. Im done

      Reply

      R. P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Ron, you owe noone an apology for your schooling, grammar or anything else…I’m the perfect example that education means little because I’m clueless when it comes to computers..& as for grammar, I’ve got a dictionary next to my computer cuz I can’t turn on the frickin spell-check & I still butcher the English language…Again, thanx for the info on the Circle T…Fairways & Greens….

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Kurt trust me their made in china I know what Im talking about.

      Reply

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      Ron, I’m still trying to figure out you’re agenda. It’s fine if you want to spout off opinions, but I personally believe it’s a problem when you spread all of these lies while you claim to have all this insider knowledge. Golfers read this blog to get information and analysis – you dilute those elements with your repetitive, ill-informed ramblings.

      Since you won’t let it go at this, here are facts in response to your clueless comments:

      -Not ALL companies bifurcate their “Tour Spec” and their retail clubs ALL the time. In fact, all the OEMs have some pros playing some equipment that can be purchased in stores along with a typical fitting.

      -Forged iron technology has improved since the 80’s. Take the Titleist AP1/AP2 and the PING Anser Iron. Both are irons forged with deeper pockets (to increase perimeter weighting) and with tungsten weights welded in the soles (to lower CG). Both are much easier to hit. Other than that, quality control has only increased on material and forging techniques. Grooves are also more tightly controlled (both milled and cast)

      -The quality of steel is not getting worse over time (for Scotty or anyone else). An old Scotty made of 303 stainless is going to pretty much have the same mass/balance/MOI/CG as a new Scotty made of 303 stainless. The metals used in the golf industry are not magically selected by Mr. Miura (despite the claims); they are defined by international standards that govern their physical properties and composition (including impurities).

      -It’s going to be pretty much impossible to find a modern metal wood head that costs $6, as you claim. You could get away with $10 for a steel hybrid head, but you made the claim about a driver. Much more for a Ti driver head.

      -And I’m also calling shenanigans on your “experience”. You claim to be 41 with 35 years of golf experience and 13 years in “equipment management” (caddy?). Your valuable experience apparently started when you were 6 and your comments have not progressed much beyond that. Plus, you still keep telling us about how much you know, but you keep failing to demonstrate it.

      -Finally, you still accuse these companies ofmaking money. We aren’t occupying Wall Street here. We as golfers are accepting that these companies make a profit (much of which stays in America) because they deliver products that we like. Maybe they perform better, maybe they look better, maybe they make us feel better because they’re good enough for our favorite pro. But we pay what we think they’re worth, not just the OEMs’ cost plus 1%profit margin. You’re not changing anyone’s mind here, so stop spreading your lies in an effort to combat the golf retail industry.

      When you troll the comments sections as you have, it hurts the effectiveness of this website that the Golfspys work so hard to maintain. For MGS’ sake, please elevate the level of your discussion (and spellcheck a little) or just be a reader from now on.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      KFlare, your ongoing snipping with Ron aside, very good points..well stated..Question: I’ve got 2 Circle Ts…If you know, where were these made, who made them, were they assembly line manufactured & did Scotty have any hand/input in there manufacturing..One is just a basic Del Mar, though the other(Newport Beach w/sound slot) was originally made for a top 50 tour pro with his initials, though he took it, he never used it in a tournament(he went with the X)..Although I have alot of putters(I’m probably a club w****) & quite a few customized retail Scottys(mostly pre-2001), I’m not a die hard & bought the Circle Ts cuz they looked good & the Newport feels great….Thanx…Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      Richard, I must confess that I am (regrettably) not well-versed in the history of Scotty’s putters. If I can bring any knowledge at all it will mostly be about current club production. So, I’m sorry that I can’t be much help, but it sounds like you have some very interesting putters!

      And yes, I’ll keep my childish snipping to a minimum, though I haven’t read Ron’s long comment below yet :)

      On an upnote, I couldn’t agree with you more that there’s no better reason to buy a club than it looked good and felt great!

      RP Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      KFlare, thanx for response…If anyone can answer my questions regarding the Circle Ts, I’d appreciate it…Ron, I have an ‘Ol Pro Platinum in pristine condition…What would you think that’s worth?..What process did that one go through, vs. the more recent Scottys…When did they start shipping them out…If ya know about the Circle Ts, please fill me in…I’m obviously not a Scottty history buff…Thanx much…Fairway’s & Greens ⁴ever…

      Kurt

      12 years ago

      R.P- thanks and same to you.
      Ron- I still haven’t found a Cameron that says China anywhere on it. Maybe it’s under the grip. I’ll have to look later though, customer wants to buy the RBZ fairway. Hits it 15 yards longer and straighter then his, Adams was 10 yards behind the RBZ and not quite as straight, in case you were wondering.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Call me Richard, please…Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Mygolfspy T If TM was this great company why do they sell a driver for 400 bucks and put the cheapest shaft in it, sounds like they could care less about making their product the best just to make a huge profit . Not only that but one time they made people think they were getting a real matrix shaft only to hide the made for taylormade logo under the bottom of the grip, if that aint trying to fool the public I dont know what is. Thats like advertising something that its really not, I know Titleist does it but they atleast they put the made fr Titleist logo on it where people can under stand what their getting fr the money which is the SISTER shaft of the real thing. Then TM starts to paint every shaft same color and the ones on tour to Fake people into beleiving their getting the same thing, unbeleivable. Adams gives you the real deal fr that money, a company I respect.

      Reply

      CPPGC

      12 years ago

      O wow (sarcasm). MGS comes out with an article that says Taylormade is doing better than everyone else. Is MGS is now in the pocket of TMaG?. Hence the “haircut” article being featured at the top of MGS for quite awhile now. It just seems like MGS is kissing Taylormade’s butt for some reason. What is going on?

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      I stared at your comment for nearly an hour before deciding to approve it. Censorship really isn’t our thing, and I’m not about to start simply because I’m tired of dealing with such nonsense. I’ve been sick since Thursday…feeling generally irritable, but because I’m aware of my irritability, I’m going to choose my words carefully.

      Before I get into the meat of exactly why any insinuation that we’re in TM’s pocket is ridiculous, let me first point out that historically speaking, we only rotate our featured articles every 2-4 months. Perhaps we should do it more often, but the fact that the same one has been there for all of 3 weeks is anything but unusual.

      As for this article…here’s the reality…TM IS kicking everyone’s ass. While some others in the industry might tell you they’re not playing the same game, the bottom line says TaylorMade is killing everyone…and I don’t mean just on tour…I mean in the pro shops across the country, and ultimately in the golf bags of amateur players. This article (which came from observations made during the Northern Trust Open), explains why that is, and how well the other golf companies have positioned themselves to actually do anything about it. Point is, TaylorMade’s marketing department is the best in the industry right now, and unless others in the industry step up their games, they’re going to fall too far behind to ever catch up.

      To your suggestion we’re in TM’s pocket. Nothing has changed. TaylorMade has paid us nothing for this (or any other article). And as long we’re going back on the record the same holds true for Cobra, Callaway, Adams, and Mizuno (4 companies whose pocket I’ve at one time or another been accused of being in since I started writing for MGS). Moreover, while I expect it might not hold true forever, as of right now, TM hasn’t even agreed to send us a single piece of equipment for testing. Maybe being in someone’s pocket means something different than what I think it does.

      How about we play by one very simply rule… If you can find one…just one other golf site of consequence that has a readership within 20% of MyGolfSpy’s, that like MyGolfSpy, accepts ZERO money from big OEMs, and has ZERO big OEM banners on their site, then by all means, feel free to comeback here and continue making baseless accusations about MGS and its staff being on the take. If you can’t, I’d very politely, and with all due respect ask that you kindly STFU.

      Reply

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      +1. Roasted!

      CPPGC

      12 years ago

      I hadn’t noticed that featured articles stay up for months, but the haircut article really jumps out every time I visit MGS.

      This article (that Taylormade is doing better than every other company) simply states the obvious, and featuring the haircut article wasn’t helping the matter. I don’t remember the last time MGS had a single specific OEM the subject of a featured article. I asked “what is going on?” because I do know MGS prides itself in not taking free stuff or advertising $$ from big OEMs.

      Sorry for saying you might be in anyone’s pocket. I just noticed MGS seemed kinder than usual to Taylormade. Lastly, I didn’t appreciate you telling me to “STFU” (even if it was kindly). Take a higher road readers than offend you.

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      CPPGC – I’ve basically always taken the high road…or at least one of the roads in the middle, but given how generally unsuccessful that has been as far as deflecting the sort of implications you made goes, I decided to try something different.

      I can imagine you didn’t appreciate the last bit of my comment, and that’s fair.

      Now image you’ve spent two years building an unbiased review system, while still trying to find some time to enjoy the game and the opportunities MGS presents (like a trip to the Kingdom for example). You fly out to try and repair a damaged relationship so that you can actually review TMAG gear for your readers. You spend almost as much time (literally) writing the article as you did the entire time you’re in San Diego, but instead of appreciating the efforts and the story, not to mention the hours it took to write it, a handful of readers decide a couple of articles amount to evidence that you’re now in TaylorMade’s pocket.

      Put yourself in my shoes? How offended are you?

      Look…from our perspective, TMAG is no different than other OEM. We cover them as the equipment, and other factors (what you might call buzz) suggests we should. Find me a bigger equipment story right now than the RBZ and how the TMAG marketing machine is finding new ways to dominate, and I’ll gladly chase it down.

      CPPGC

      12 years ago

      Golfspy T, I really appreciate your second reply (and the time you put into first one too). I have been reading MGS for a long time and made a quick judgment when something seemed a little different from the MGS ordinary. Any point I was trying to make should have been said with more thought before posting. Keep up the good work. MGS is the only site I know that isn’t afraid to post a bad review of a golf club (I love it when that happens).

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      CPPGC, Kudos…Class comment..The best this season….Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      R. P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      CPPGC, although I’ve got no dogs in this fight, it’s hard to pass over comments/responses like yours & MGS T’s…First, your issues were adressed adnausium in many of the comments/responses above…MGS has explained themselves, though there’s really nothing for them to explain, to the point that they owe none of us anything more.. What part of the prior, oh, 4-5 responses to basically the same questions as yours do you not understand?..That T took the time to respond to you, period, is a testament to his professionalism…And regarding his telling you to “STFU,” there was a caveat, so if you do find a site on MGS’s level that takes nothing from the larger OEMs, then please point them out & if not, well, you can take T’s advice or you can take your sterling comments to another site…And dude, you gotta admit, putting your emotions aside for a minute, there are not alot of other sites where ya get such a personal response like T sent you…I got a strong feeling it’s not the first time someone’s said that to you…Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Steve P.

      12 years ago

      I wouldn’t be suprised that TM “hasn’t even agreed to send us (mygolfspy) a single piece of equipment for testing.” MGS does the most thorough reviews in golf. Why would TM let the world know the truth about how their products actually stack up, when hype is what they’ve really relied on to sell millions of clubs every year?

      RON

      12 years ago

      Jon I never doughted their marketing strategy they are brilliant no dought about that they choose to sell them sells out like a whore would, their a different company thats for sure .

      Reply

      Jon W.

      12 years ago

      Richard Jacobs hits it on the head!!! Ron, I would not buy jack from you golf-related. Typing lessons included in that. Bashing people that work hard and turning a $400 million company into a $1.4 billion company in 11 years is impressive. They market, they’re good at it. They pay their players, make good product for their Tour players and according to the geniuses in their R&D department on this forum, the different clubs for the regular golfer out there. They sell a crap load of product because it works. People pick up distance and hit it straighter with better launch conditions and spin rates due to getting properly fit for adjustable product which is what TM has nailed. Why is Callaway all of a sudden releasing an adjustable driver? Why did Titleist do it last year? Why did Cobra do it? Cuz it works. I love it when I hear people say they cant hit a white club because they cant look at a white club. What? Thats Ron, the guy who sticks with his old faithful RAM driver and Wilson fairways because he is afraid to buy into hype, that WORKS!!!!

      Reply

      R. P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Jon, good points..Fairways & Greens 4ever…..

      Reply

      Jon W.

      12 years ago

      Ron, I don’t doubt your knowledge. But please, please slow down when you type. Dear god, it takes me like 5 minutes to read your posts. Spell out words. You know for a fact TaylorMade pays every tour player contract or not $1800 per week? That is a crap load of money. I would love to see documentation on that.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      JON What why would I try to impress people I could care less thats def not my intention and the only reason I bring up the inside people i know is so people would know and understand where Im comming from thats all, it just makes it easier fr the listener to know Im not some guy on here wasting your time just to look at my own writing, plus after I type it I dont even bother to look at it , whats the point I know what I wrote I dont need to see it again, and the more and more people who understands this the less people will pay those prices and maybe I dought it, but maybe the prices will get lower to normal standards to where it should be.

      Reply

      Kurt

      12 years ago

      I just wonder what the agenda is. Your not going to stop anyone from buying. If new club prices are to high then people buy used. I have lots of customers that come in and walk straight to the used rack. Two problems with that, the fitting process pretty much goes out the window and eBay has killed trade in prices.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      I just want people to realize thats just because its made in china really doesnt mean its a cheap product its what these companys are willing to spend , and considering TM has a hundred commercials and tour gys to pay , I wouldnt think they have all that extra money to throw around to make a premium product , impossible inless they have all the money in the world.

      Reply

      Kurt

      12 years ago

      I’ve got 12 yrs in myself, in 2 different states, 4 reps with tour van experience, so don’t think your not talking to someone without knowledge. I’m standing here holding a new Cameron and for the life of me I can’t find China anywhere on it

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Richard Jacobs YR ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ITS NOT WORTH ALL THE TYPING AND CONSIDERING iM ONE OF THE WORST TYPERS OUT HERE LOL.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Richard Jacobs I am not really worried abt my delivery or impressing people on here Im just giving em the cold hard facts abt these WAY WAY WAY overly expensive golf clubs are considering how cheap they are to make , I know its business to make a profit but its like selling rocks to the public and advertising and telling people its gold. Business is one thing but this is way over the top. Miura irons fr an example I know cost 10 bucks a head and I know they hve to pay the employees there but then charge 1600 fr em, I mean come on. Rocks sold like their gold.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Ron, if you’e not tryin to impress people then why would you spew about who you know & what you know..It’s a misguided attempt to get these guys to listen & agree with you..By reading theor replies, maybe you should care….Though just like some people speak to listen to their own voice, many write to read their own words…That’s the great thing about this country, you can pretty much say/write what you want..My only point about delivery is that if your are writing to influence or persuade any of these people to accept this vast amount of knowledge that you have to give, you probably should do something differently…Though if you’re writing to see yourself in print & continually speak about how qualified you are to teach these guys with them obviously not buying it or you, then yea, keep doing what you’re doing & you’ll keep getting what you’ve gotten…Those are the cold facts…out…Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      iVE BEEN IN GOLF EQUIPMENT MANAGEMENT FR 13 YEARS NOW iM LUCKY ENOUGH TO COME IN CONTACT WITH PEOPLE WHO WORKED THE VANS AS WELL AS A COUPLE TOURING PROS BUT ITS NOT IN MY BEST INTEREST TO MENTION NAMES . The reason I threw some off putting names around is out of frustration because people only want to beleive what they want to beleive , but yr right I shouldnt name call that was stupid on my part. Im just sharing alot of info I know fr a fact to give people info on the biz and people argue and tell me that I dont know anything and unfortunetly its the other way around.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Ron, if that’s the case, don’t waste your time, energy & emotions…That’s the great thing about opinions, evryone has ’em & you know what they’re worth..Let ’em believe what they wanna believe…Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      Reply

      Kurt

      12 years ago

      Are you incapable of having a conversation like an adult. All you do on here is call people names and insult them. I never said HE made them. Reread the post. Your conspiracy theories are old and tired and you still haven’t answered the question. What do you do that makes you privileged to all this insider info you keep quoting?

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Kurt Ill give u another example I saw a 2000 pro platinum cameron in a golf store in the used putter section , and it was an old 1999 platinum cameron wth the slanted neck, well this thing was beaten up pretty bad nicks in every inch of the head including the sweet spot , and they wanted 230.00 fr it. Why because its an ORIGINALL CAMERON.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Kurt you must be gullable as hell to thing those putters are made by him , ofcoarse he will say their not if he admitted it his biz would go under , think smart not stupid, why do u think the heads say MADE IN CHINA, YOU THINK HE FLEW TO CHINA TO MAKE EM LOL. Kurt from working fr people in this industry and knowing ones who are in this racket TRUST ME I KNOW MOST THINGS U GYS COULD NEVER KNOW AND THATS THE TRUTH NO LIE.

      Reply

      Kurt

      12 years ago

      Scotty Cameron addressed those rumors in 2008 and said they were false. Cameron putters are made in the USA.

      Reply

      Kurt

      12 years ago

      Ron, what do you do in the golf industry?

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Neil your DEAD wrong todays cheap retail cameron putters are made in China look at the stickers guys I know in this bus get alot of shipments of those putters in boxes that say head made in CHINA. The feel and balance is nothing absolutely nothing like the early ones he made fr retail when he first came onto the scene. Once he got recognised fr making good quality real german steel handmade putters 14 years ago he had to go the mass production route. Even the weights on the bottom of the putters tin alloy very cheap to get and inexpensive. You gys have no idea how knoweledgable I am in this club bus.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Ron, I’m not saying that you’re right or wrong, cuz I haven’t really been paying attention, though your last sentence caught my attention..For what it’s worth, when you’ve gotta tell people how knowledgable you supposedly are, you’ve either got to work on your delivery or go find some one else to deliver it to because I don’t think these guys are overly impressed with your knowledge..BTW, I agree with alot of what you say about Scottys, & I own 14 of his retail(ranging from 1995 to a ’12 Monterey) & 2 Circle Ts..He don’t make ’em like he used to…The best…Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      Reply

      Neil

      12 years ago

      Scotty Cameron putters are made in a milling shop Dow the street from the Studio, not in China.

      Reply

      Kurt

      12 years ago

      Ron, so your hatred for TM is that they are a business that does an excellent job of marketing. They do in golf what Nike does with shoes, Microsoft does with computers and so on. I don’t understand where your coming from. Out of all the R11’s we sold last year and the RBZ’s this year I can count on 1 hand the number of people who just walked in and bought without ever swinging it. Anyone who walks in my store brings in thier own club and hits it on the launch monitor to compare numbers with what they are looking at buying. Sometimes they walk out with new product sometimes they don’t. Sometimes they walk out with what they came in for sometimes they walk out with something different. If someone walks in and has their mind set that they are walking out with a certain club, you can’t do anything about it no matter what the monitor says. To fault TM for doing a great job is totally wrong. If you want to blast them for stealing ideas then you have to the same for every company. They all take each others ideas and try to improve on them. Does TM have better slot technology? That just depends on who’s hitting it. Plain and simple, what works for me may or may not work for you.

      Reply

      R. P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Kurt, excellent points, well said…have a good season….Fairways & Greens…..

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      John w The scotty camerans in the store are cheaply made compared to the ones HE made in early late 90s early 2000s. A good putter can put just as good with them as they can with a circle T, but the balance, material , make of the ones HE made back then and the circle Ts of today are night and day better feeling. The ones today are mass produced in China that Titleist made him do, everone knows that. 4 years ago I tried the retail ones and it was a light tin can feeling peice of garbage. Thats why the ones that were made by HIM in late 90s early 2000s ARE WORTH DOUBLE ON EBAY OF THE ONES TODAY. No I would never pay 1500 bucks fr a cameron cause no putter is worth that inless yr a collector or something, and they cost that much cause they were made by him like the pro platinum and telente copper insert ones that were in the stores back then, After he got his name established they went the mass production route its business.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      JON W taylormade is in alot of bags because they pay each guy 1800 a WEEK thats right a WEEK and I know this for a fact . That 1800 pays hotels caddys and alot other stuff fr that week that they need, as much as I dont like TM I would bag them every week fr that money if I was on tour. By the way the TM drivers on tour are totally different than the retail ones,Im not saying their retail ones are no good there plenty good enough fr that handicapp golfer and good player BUT I saw first hand from a freind in the bus that they cave in alot not every one mind you but a good amount and my freind has NEVER saw that wth other competative drivers. Simple they lead the stats because they pay every Tom Dick and Harry out on tour to use em , and people see that so thats why they sell alot plus their marketing is alot more than the other OEMs, you sound like a little kid mentioning all that crap. Ya calling it LA open is a hell of alot easier than calling it northern trust, who cares abt the sponser name , if you told the average person northern trust he wouls say what the f… tourney is that. when you mention LA or riviera right away they will know what tourney it is cause its been called that forever mouron.

      Reply

      Jon W

      12 years ago

      Michael L.

      Please look at this site. http://www.taylormadegolf.com/tour/players

      That’s probably the most pointless mention in this forum thread. Only good looking players? Really? Everyone you listed there, one thing in common except for Natalie and Dustin, major winners. Keny Perry? You think he went to Adams because of that? No, he wanted more money, a lot more money, and he wasn’t winning on the PGA Tour. That’s why companies don’t give a lot of money to the Champions Tour players. They don’t drive the needle. He now plays courses that are 6300 yards from the white tees and pins in the middle of the greens. Yeah, he pumps it off the tee, but Corey Pavin won the week prior with guess what company??? He hits half the distance Perry hits it. Plus Pavin hits it way straighter than Perry.

      Reply

      JIM S

      12 years ago

      If anyone has any doubts about Adams being the company on the leading edge of technology, wait till you hit the XTD Super Hybrid and XTD Super Fairway. Don’t even respond until you have hit them. As far as TM only sponsoring “attractive” players, I hope you’re joking. Kenny Perry changed for the extra yards and control. His play justifies it. Play what you play best, but don’t knock what others play.

      Reply

      Neil

      12 years ago

      A few points to add. The slot technology on the sole of the Adams and TM woods are not governed by any patent. The slot on the crown is an Adams patent. Nike was the first with compression slot technology. The ASP plate that TM uses is a Callaway patent. One company manufactures the adjustable hosel for TM, Callaway and Titleist (hence the 40 lb. tourque setting in all). Callaway is using TM’s MWT in their new driver. And everyone copies the Ping Anser putter. The simple fact is that there’s more going on behind the scenes between companies that we know. So play what you want ans what works.

      Reply

      Michael L.

      12 years ago

      Taylormade is the most popular golf company because they have the most attractive tour players. Paula Creamer, Natalie Gulbis, Martin Kaymer, and Dustin Johnson just to name a few. there are some exceptions such as Darren Clarke, but for the most part, Taylormade only sponsors good lookng people; that’s why they dropped Kenny Perry, he was really dragging them down.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Michael , I’ve read alot of comments that make me sit back & shake my head, though I gotta tell ya bro, this might take the cake…I’m sure the TM guys that read this post are getting a chuckle out of this one, though I’m guessing a sheep’s a sheep & they’ll take ya any way they can getcha…Since you’ve exposed a business tactic that I’m sure TM doesn’t put in writing, what do ya think about Titleist?..How do theeir boys & girls stack up against TM?..Hit ’em well this season….Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Reply

      Jon W

      12 years ago

      Ok Ron, so explain this to me please. I TM is so bad and they are a worthless company, spend a lot on marketing, make a crappy product, yadda yadda yadda, than why do they have these stats at the Northern Trust last week, or I guess you would still call it the LA Open.

      #1 in driver, #1 in FW wood, #2 in irons, #2 in hybrids, #3 in wedge and #2 in ball. Plus, all the stats that this writer has written on this article on how well they sell product in retail stores and green grass accounts. In 2011, according to articles online, TM’s sales in the first quarter when R11 hit the market was over $350 million, first quarter like I said. Nike, Cleveland, and Adams were all under $100 million for the YEAR!!! Why is that? I guess they brain wash PGA Tour players too? Those guys play for a living, so equipment is sort of a big deal, right? Explain that. Yeah, what a crappy company. Thats like saying Apple computers suck because they have an apple as a logo. Thats like saying Nike basketball shoes are crappy because some have bright colors or they have air bags on the sides of them. Someone also on here said their products suck because a lot are on Ebay? Was that you? You kidding me? So a Cameron putter because it has a “tour stamp” on it or has a circle T logo on it is worth $5,000? Really? Oh yeah, an all milled putter that says Cameron and has a T on it will make you drain putts like Stricker. Cant wait to read your response.

      Reply

      Patrick F.

      12 years ago

      What an article, I love MGS for bringing this topic to light. I am a strong believer in playing the best technology that works for me. I am a scratch golfer that has played for over 40 years, I remember the blade irons and persimmon woods, balata balls…etc. Today’s equipment is light years better. I also agree that Adams Golf makes some very good equipment. head to head there Drivers, Fairways, hybrids and irons with the KBS shafts are amazing. One thing everyone continues to get mistaken, is that Adams started the slot technology. If I remember correctly, Nike Golf started the slot technology, Adams borrowed thieir technology and made it better. Now Taylormade claims to have taken that same technology a step further. This is nothing new, it has gone on in the golf industry for years. I agree that Adams needs an Adidas type company to prove there equipment is better if not just as good as TMG.

      Reply

      R. P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Patrick, good point about Nike & the slot, though they both hit the market the the same year(2011)…Christ, do you make me feel old because I’ve been @ this for 44 yrs & I’ll never forget how proud I was when I got my first Powerbilt Citation persimmon driver( & the 1st spike mark, I almost cried..lol)…Technology is definitely better, though sometimes I long for those days…Things were simpler then, including my golf game…The best…Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      Reply

      Steve P.

      12 years ago

      Patrick,
      Yes, you are mistaken. If Nike deserves any credit for the dual slot technology that Adams first brought to the industry last year in fairway woods and hybrids, then you might as well give Ping the credit for putting a sound slot in the sole of their Cushin putters in the 60’s. Nike’s channel technology has nothing to do with what Adams created in fairway woods and hybrids. Adams’ dual slots improve the launch angle, expand forgiveness across the face, increase ball speeds by raising the CT/COR, and do so without increasing spin. A little history: Nike came out with the “compression channel” in 2010 in the VR DRIVER only. It supposedly helped to improve performance on shots hit “in the lower zone of the heel.” (Those are Tom Stite’s own words.) Look at the VR fairway woods and hybrids from that year. They are completely smooth soled on the bottom beneath the hitting area. Why, I’m betting Nike didn’t see a benefit that translated to fairway woods or hybrids. Last year, at the same time Adams launched F11, Nike came out with the VR Pro that did feature their channel in all the clubs, but just look at the design, it’s a mere inverted speed bump, completely rounded on all sides, and too shallow to do anything on all but shots hit on the lowest portion of the clubface. The channel concept is a technology Nike developed for drivers, and I think they simply slapped it on all the woods in the VR Pro series a year later because they wanted visual “uniformity” of their line for marketing purposes. Just look at their new VRS clubs – no channels at all. Hmmm? If Nike should get credit for the best advancement in the last 20 years in hybrid and fairway wood technology, why have they abandoned it? Look, Nike just throws cool looking and high-tech sounding things against the wall every year, but nothing ever sticks. Their equipment sales are an embarrassment for a company that’s had the best player ever (maybe) in the fold for so long. And how many other huge name staffers have they spent zillions on, and seen win a bunch of times including majors, without Nike even sniffing being in the top tier in equipment sales? Why, it’s because the so-called “new technology” they bring to the consumer every year never truly works. Look, Nike is, first and foremost, a fashion company, not an engineering company. (Shoes, shirts, uniforms, ball caps, Livestrong armbands, that’s what they’re good at, FASHION) It’s the truth, we all know it. Now, golf technology? Just look at EVERY fairway wood they’ve ever introduced; they’re always just mini versions of their driver of the moment. SQ, SQ2, Sumo2, Dymo, Dymo2, on and on, it’s all cr_p. And did anybody really want a square aerodynamic fairway wood (or hybrid) that they came out with, the MachSpeed? I still see tons of those in golf stores (and they’ve been discontinued for 2years) and I almost throw up every time I see them, hideous. But if they actually performed, they’d be all sold by now. Now, has Adams, the company that was actually first to stress and focus on the importance of improving aerodynamics in 460cc drivers, EVER made a single claim about “a more aerodynamic” fairway wood or hybrid? NO, because they are, first and foremost, an engineering company. They know that focusing on aerodynamic design to improve performance in fairway woods and hybrids is pointless. Fairways and hybrids are too small for it to matter. They don’t rely on gimmicks or “marketing uniformity” to continue to grow their sales and compete with the huge companies. And for that matter, that is why Adams doesn’t put their dual slot technology in their drivers. Drivers are already at their legal limit for COR/CT. Putting the same slots in their drivers would require Adams to thicken or “deaden” the face to keep them legal after adding the slots. Why would you go backwards? (I bet Nike would though for marketing purposes.)
      Now as to TaylorMade “improving” on Adams’ design? Where do you get that? Because TM said so in their commercials, or on their facebook page, or you read it in chat room, or because it’s white? Or is it because anybody that wants a big TM check every week will bag one on tour, and so now the PGA Tour is full of them? TaylorMade’s wood is as good as they could legally have made it. Fortunately for Adams, they were wise to patent the crown slot design before anybody else could “borrow” that technology. If one slot on the bottom improves performance low on the face and raises ball speed, it stands to reason that a slot also on the top would have some affect too, no? TM’s sole slot is deeper because that was only way they could raise the CT around the center of the face without having both slots. But that deeper sole slot is also the reason many have a hard time getting the ball off the deck with the rbz; the face deflects downward and delofts at impact. That’s why TaylorMade specifically states in their marketing that “better players will gain up to 17 yards.” They’re not “just being honest” here folks, they are covering their legal arses. It’s because better players are already able to launch the ball off the deck with a good trajectory with any fairway wood, and will actually see the benefit of a higher core and low spin. It doesn’t perform nearly as well from the fairway for the 90% of sheep that will buy it though. Sad thing for them is, most people will only try it off a tee before buying it.
      But you know what, everyone should go all three brands and then report back. I have, and I just did.

      Reply

      R. P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Steve, very informative, thanx for the post….Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Patrick, I don’t know that I’d go so far as to say that TM has improved on the Adams slot technology, though I can only speak for myself…As stated in an earlier post , after hitting the Tour S/13′, I put my shaft of choice in it & off I went..I currently have the Adams F11Ti(titanium face) in my bag, & though it is a 15′ loft, I hit it as far as the TM RBZ Tour S..It will not be leaving my bag…I to have played for 40+ years(44) & play to a 4.2 & have a lot of confidence in the F11 off the tee/deck…Although the F11 is “old” technology, for me, it’s a rocket!..BTW, I hit the F12 3FM & it was 6-8 yds. shorter than my F11Ti w/a lower ball speed..Nice club, though it’s not the F11Ti, @ least for me…Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      Reply

      Shaunthesheep

      12 years ago

      What!? You mean the price of golf equipment has risen over the last 35 years!? I demand to know why the MGS team haven’t produced an article on this startling revelation?

      Reply

      Ronaldo

      12 years ago

      The article is all about marketing and it’s a good article but the discussion should be about performance and quality. I would say that Mizuno, Titleist and Ping made the best irons in industry and TM made the worst. I will add too that TM have a good line of Woods but Adams is supreme and there are a good set of woods in Callaway. What I’m trying to say is that every one of us should have in our bags the best in each category I’m convinced that no one can offer the best product in every category and it’s really smart to take the time to try different brands and compare.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      KFLARE that was a cold shot but to tell u the truth Im not here to bash anyone Im just letting all u guys know how much of a rip off the golf bus has turned into now to charge almost 50 bucks fr a dozen balls just shows you how its gtting carried away now and 19 bucks fr golf gloves to . Just telling it like it is and the hard core truth about the crooked golf business.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      JON W where do u get this etonic and wilson stuff from and by the way the wilson staff fluid feel irons from early 90s are by FAR a better made club than taylormade mb and mc irons today theres no contest. I will say this though the VRpro 11 blades are very well made iron. I hit the TM mb short word cheap ass forging in every aspect and I know forged clubs like I know my own hands.

      Reply

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      And given your sparkling personality, I imagine you’ve gotten to know your hands really well…

      Reply

      R. P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Guys, in all seriousness, take a minute & step back & read what you’ve posted…It’s one thing to dissagree and voice that in a responsible, adult like manner, though to just start slinging insults, then to go gutter like this, come on..I have absolutely nothing to do with MGS professionally, though I and many others come here to relax and exchange ideas, views & opinions..And sometimes those may differ..There’s an appropriate way to do that & this crap isn’t it..The guys @ MGS haved worked way too hard to build this site to have garbage like this take away from it…Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      Tittotheduke

      12 years ago

      I love Taylormade

      Reply

      Martyn Wells

      12 years ago

      It’s all talk and no show, I have TM burner 09 49g stiff shaft, tried numerous others including R11, R11s, RBZ and other makes, I just cannot find anything that gives me 12-15 yards extra without loosing accuracy, nearest is Machspeed Black Nike, waiting to try their near gear, also can’t find a good club fitter in UK like Bronson Wright?

      Reply

      Steve Sales

      12 years ago

      I think the fact that Adams is looking for a buyer or partner coupled with the fact they make do make solid equipment makes them a good entrant in the TM contender contest. As MGS points out, much of TM’s financial strength comes from being part of the Adidas clothing giant.
      and as an earlier poster pointed out, the profit margins on equipment are miniscule compared to those on clothing and Adidas does very well in that biz. I have watched a similar chain of events over the years in the surf industry. ie The clothing guys are who make all the money. The boardbuilders are way down the list but it is the surfboard that makes the sport possible.

      If Adams can get partnered with a rag biz that makes some money then I think their talent for new technologies (ie hybrids, speed slot, etc) could be brought to bear in a fashion that TM would not be so far ahead of the game. I totally agree with MGS that most of the golf CLUB manufacturers are woefully stuck in the past. The names Hogan, Snead and Nickalus still conjure up great memories for me. IMO though the market now has to be targeted and grown for those who think that all golf history starts with Tiger and Phil. That seems to be where TM is and where they are going. Love ’em or hate ’em they got completely out of the old box and most everyone seems to be still be reading the old shipping label.

      Reply

      kent

      12 years ago

      While I can agree with you that Taylormade is a huge marketing player, I think you are way off on Titleist. While they are the absolute dominate player in golf balls for decades, they have always been a quality over quantity player in the club business. They have put themselves in place to be the “players” choice and they protect it every but as much as Taylormade protects the “quantity” side by paying anyone that will take their money and having the mass exposure to get the R11 in bags of the rest of us hackers. Look at the equipment counts for this year – in the Hyundai – with only champions playing, Titleist was #1 in ball-drivers-fairways woods-hybrids-irons-wedges-putters. That is a #1 for every category. After the Hyundai, in the 2012 PGA events to date they are #1 in ball, irons, wedges and putters for every tournament and #2 in drivers,FW and no worse than #3 in hybrids. Of PGA club pros in the only tournament (i can find online) with an equip count, Titleist is #1 in every category again. My experience in the various “almost tours” (my term for the various tours of the players trying to get to the nationwide) was that Titleist was always the most played clubs as well, although I have no stats to back it up. In my opinion, Titleist is targeting the best players and they are hitting the numbers every bit as well as Taylormade. Titleist is winning on quality (not necessarily saying their clubs are the highest quality – but they market them to attract the best players) and Taylormade wins on quantity.

      Reply

      John Chalmers Sr

      12 years ago

      At the top it ask “So who could challenge Taylormade”. ??????? I would say they already have. Let’s take last weeks golf, PGA 1st place TITLEIST. Champion 1st and 2nd place ADAMS, And LPGA 1st place ADAMS. Need I say any more?

      Reply

      mygolfspy

      12 years ago

      Winners on tour is great…but that has little to do with what the article is really referring to.

      Reply

      Garry

      12 years ago

      Means nothing at the cash register.

      Reply

      fleeter

      12 years ago

      Fantastic article. My 12 year old daughter saw me watching golf and even asked me why they had hearts on their hats, and if I could buy her one! A brilliant piece of marketing by TM for sure, and I’m a ping driver user. Rocketballz is another great idea also by TM. The minute you hear the word you’re thinking about it and that’s what marketing is all about – to get the consumer thinking and eventually buying. In my opinion the guy(s) at TM that came up with these two ideas deserve a promotion and on demo day I think I’ll maybe swing a rocketballz and see what all the rumble is about!

      Reply

      Garry

      12 years ago

      Adams golf is on the market for sale. Same company that put the Titleist Korean deal together is looking for buyers. 2 of the US gieants have passed. Adams is being shopped in ASIA.. I am suprised MGS hasn’t mentioned this. There was a little pre PGA Show rumoring and lots of it at the show in the back rooms where deals go down. There is and will be more shaking out in the golf industry. Callaway is in trouble.. they old Nike/Callaway hook up is in the rumor mill again. They were close 5-6 years ago. Gold OEM’s need dip pocketed big brothers and ADAMS is looking.. sorry Adams fans.. but reality is life

      Reply

      Steve P.

      12 years ago

      What is there to be sorry about for us Adams fans?
      Taylormade was sucking wind before Adidas purchased them back in the late 90’s.
      Adidas’ money is the primary reason for where TM is today.
      If Adams were to be purchased by the right type of company (sporting goods ideally outside of golf) with deep pockets looking to make a splash in the golf business, then Adams would finally have the resources to really tell it like is to the consumer from a product standpoint.
      Do you really think TM would have knocked off Adams slot technology if Adams had a marketing budget on par with TaylorMade’s, or if Callaway introduced slot technology first? Yeah right. TM would be the laughing stock of the industry. I can picture the response ads in my head right now from Adams… “RBZ, Strap a Knockoff to your Ball!” It would be classic.
      TM knew they could “steal” the design, market the p_ss out of the new club, and most of the “sheep” wouldn’t even know someone else offered anything like it before.
      Really, the best thing for the “brand” would be for someone with marketing muscle to acquire Adams and allow Adams to spread the word about how good and innovative their equipment is.

      Reply

      Garry

      12 years ago

      Just telling it like it is. You Adams folk have no clue. The cash registers around the country say y9ou know absolutely nothing about the business. You think blindly. Man it is just a golf company. Steve P comeback from Dizzykneeland. What happened 20 years ago has nothing to do with today. Typical ostrich.. living in the past.. grabbin some ass(line for a 60’s rock song)

      TM stole know designs. If they did it would be in the courts. That is a new way to pad the bottom line and would be industry news, Why babble BS.. try real Honest facts. Not something made up.

      fleeter. the Heart Hats & HC’s are rumored in the works. Might come out of tomorrows corprate meetings

      Steve P.

      12 years ago

      Garry,
      If you are that excited about TaylorMade’s sales at “retail”, why do you feel the need to whore 41 pieces of their new stuff out on ebay? Would TaylorMade approve? Do the “big box” stores know? They’ll squash you like a grape if they get wind. I’m betting Adams won’t open you up, or they shut you down. Don’t worry though, “it is just a golf company.” You can sell stuff like it next year when TM comes out with their version of it.
      I can’t imagine a golf store in Wyoming would be that busy though, so I guess I shouldn’t be too judgemental. You gotta sell that monsterous TM prebook somehow right?
      One tip, you might want invest in a “spell check” feature for your laptop seeing how much time you spend on your computer. It’s embarrasing really. Cha-cha chowchow.

      i3PUTT

      12 years ago

      Garry, Get Up! Steve is Kicking your Ass!
      LMAO
      This has got to be the best comment section ever.
      Well done mygolfspy!

      Garry

      12 years ago

      If it is Brand Loyality. Taylor is in very good shape. As has been stated. Golfers tend to stay with a brand. Taylor gain market share each and every year. MAth says a lot of those golfers are going to stay. Being in the golf business. IT IS ALL ABOUT TAYLOR MADE right now. 10 drivers sold.. 9 will be/is Taylor Made. JUst go to a Big Box and watch. The buyer goes str8 to TM and starts there.. and finishes their! TM has the MoJo and they have people that think ahead.. Proactive.. not reactive

      The war is between NIke & Adidas.. and golf is just a gnat in the sceme of things

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      JON by the way retire? Im only 41

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      I remember a couple years ago that I noticed the taylormade logo underneith the end of the grip on a matrix shaft shaft on their clubs trust me they are a slick company. Jon W you dont know half of the stuff that I know in this industry nor the people who work with these companys I know so dont tell me you think you know more.You accually think Titleist makes their forges better than when they were forged by hoffman back in the 80s and 90s no way no how not even close so so much for your modern tech today. Modern tech is in your big waffle headed drivers that makes em more forgivable and the ball is longer today thats it, all the other stuff is BS advertising.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Jon W I know so many people in this industry and they can tell you those mastrix shafts that come with those TM heads are not the same regardless of no TM logo on it wake up . The drivers of today are easier to hit ofcoarse I know that but you cant work the ball as easy as before thats common sense theres always going to be a trade off, funny thing I even found out that the cleveland Miyazaki shafts are a little different than the REAL thing despite it saying made in Japan while it is made in Japan it is a grade lower than the Miyazaki shafts fr 250 to 300 dollars if u buy single . The Adams Fubuki you get with their new drivers are the real thing however thats what makes Adams a very good company , The Aldilas that come with the Callaways are a hundred times the quality of the shafts TM puts in their woods.

      Reply

      Garry

      12 years ago

      TP shafts are the real deal. the non TP are tamed down 350 shafts. Now TM is going to the OEM’s colors.. so their can be no more lying about TP shafts not being OEM spec. Pure BS. The TM Tour Pros play TP shafts right out of stock. They just to dial in. Tip trimming here.. tweek the head here.. MSG wrote an article. I am sure he saw the bazillion shafts Taylor has. Stick to real facts. No hear say BS.

      More nosense. Go to both web sites.. check out the specs. If the shaft says made for.. it will be a tamed down version. Titelist – Callaway – Nike – blah blah all do it.. then they hook you for the 335 real deal version at $100-200 upcharge. Industry scam played by the OEM’s

      Reply

      Favre the Looper

      12 years ago

      Next king of the hill??? I’m going with Nickent or Zevo or MacGregor.

      Reply

      nick

      12 years ago

      TaylorMade has become the most boring brand in golf. It’s time for new things. I personally like the attitude of COBRA PUMA GOLF they seem to be forging their own identity in a pretty cluttered market. I look forward to see how they develop in years to come.

      Reply

      Jon W.

      12 years ago

      Exactly, 35 years. Retire. Quit make believing that TM is somehow robbing everyone. You clearly sell Etonic cleats and Wilson irons still in eastern Arizona. Ron, do some research. Golf has evolved into a very technologically advanced industry.

      Reply

      Curt

      12 years ago

      RON, look at the new Callaway woods and hybrids shafts, bar none some of the worst I’ve used or seen. Not even a shaft from at outside company. Callaway uses Aldila and so does TM. What do you do for a living because you obviously don’t have much knowledge about the companies…Callaway is ripping off TM by having adjustable weights and face angle. It’s the same with all companies they rip each other off and it will never end. Adams had that technology last year yes but TM made it better. Saying all of this I don’t even play TM. KFlare it is the same with every product you purchase I definitely agree. For some ridiculous reason people don’t have a brain when buying golf equipment. Your asking me to give you a discount on these clubs when if I came to see you to get a discount on insurance, banking, buying a house, buying a car…would these people give me a discount, I don’t think so. If you want the new clubs pay for it and be happy and if not, no one wants your uneducated opinion. Not my fault you can’t afford it so quit knocking it.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Atleast companies like Adams and Callaway put good quality feeling and performing shafts in their drivers that they charge 400 for. TM in the other hand not a chance in hell because their advertising costs prevent them from making a driver with a half decent shaft in it and then have the nerve to charge 400 bucks fr it. They only way to BEAT a company like TM is to buy that driver a year or 2 later alot cheaper and put yr own shaft in it, but Im sure alot of people know that already atleast I hope. But I still see people buying that r11 last spring when it came out fr 400 and a 10 dollar shaft that comes with it, stupid people like that is why that dam company does this BS.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      Shauntsheep they do cut corners big time by putting in 10 dollar shafts which are pitiful and turn around and charge you 400 fr the club, you gys are suckers.

      Reply

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      $10+ for a shaft, $5 for a headcover, $60 for a titanium head, add in labor, distribution, and retailer costs, plus the fact that a company has to pay their accountants and HR people while turning a little profit.

      Let me guess Ron, you’ve never purchased a new car or furniture or a computer. Because those companies make money too, and that would make you a sucker.

      You are a troll and you are sad.

      Reply

      Jon W.

      12 years ago

      How many custom shafts on TM clubs say “made for TaylorMade by Matrix Ozik”???? Oh, thats right, NONE, because they ARE the real shafts!!! Thats why they keep their drivers the same price as the other leading driver out there. Ron, what do you play in your bag? Exotics? Nickent? Wilson? RAM from 1994? Please. $10 shafts? Actually, look this shaft up on Ebay for me. Diamana Kai Li 60 stiff. Project X 65 driver shaft. Probably going for $200-300, just for the shaft. Ron, like I said before, it is 2012. Not 1993 where steel shafts put you 220 in the middle. Now you can hit it 265 down the middle with graphite, adjustable heads, and yes, custom shafts. Try it out. Sounds like you get beat by a lot of white drivers at your golf course.

      Reply

      R. P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Jon, I’m not tryin to throw gas on the fire cuz you guys got a pretty good one goin though I don’t think that I’ve ever seen a retail TM driver with an “authentic” shaft in it..I know that I’ve got 2 SF TPs that had “made for” & I’ve got 1 SF 2.0 TP with a “made for” & though I switched out these for my preferred shaft, for 95%+ of the sheep, when they buy a club off of the floor, they’re are getting a “made for”..Not that it matters to their game, though it is what it is…Have a good season…Fairways & Greens 4ever….

      Shaunthesheep

      12 years ago

      I don’t get all the blind hate I am seeing towards Taylormade tbh, I don’t quite think that was the idea behind the article. Do you honestly not think every other OEM wants your money too!? Taylormade just have the greatest knack for getting it. Don’t hate just for hates sake or because one guy claims all his Taylormade drivers break, sheesht it’s like a playground in here.

      As it happens I currently use R11 woods and love them and fail to see and “cut corners” performance wise. I bought them because they stood out the most to me, I don’t have any brand loyalty when it comes to woods. (Irons are another matter)

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      So go on and steel Luke Donald and Love111 you are already paying em to use yr woods anyway and why you are at it go ahead and charge people 50 bucks fr yr driver love heart headcovers while yr at it, VOLTURES MAN.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      To look at TM copying adams with the slot in the bottom of their RBZ just tells you they are voltures that will go to any extreme to make a buck, TM I really hope you gys read this because after seeing you copy Adams like that I have zero respect fr yr company, nuff said.

      Reply

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      Ron, while you call them vultures, would you believe it equally irresponsible for them to identify that Adams made a great design optimization, and then proceed to not use it for the sake of being “original”, yet sub-optimal? I imagine you’d also be upset at Taylormade for selling inferior products just based on principle.

      To show the flipside, many golfers get upset at PING for not making a muscle-back blade. But PING believes musclebacks deliver inferior performance to cavity-backs, even for “players”, so they don’t give people what they ask for.

      Taylormade didn’t claim to invent the slot, they claimed to have designed it the best (which is also debatable). Some of the best products come from second or third movers (iPods!), not the original inventor.

      Reply

      Jon W.

      12 years ago

      It funny Ron you point that out with the slot technology. I totally agree, they did “copy” that from Adams. Let me run this by you however:

      R11 gets introduced last year which is a flat white driver. I say flat because it is a dull color meaning no glare. No hot spots, and no reflection so when you set down a black driver and the sun is beaming down off of it and it blinds you. Have you seen the color of Adams newest Speedline Fast 12 driver???????????? It is Silver. And guess what????? It is FLAT SILVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why is that RON???!!??? Ping I20 driver??? Seen that one???? FLAT BLACK!!!! Whos the real vulture?? How many metal woods did TM sell last year? Over 1 million. How many did Adams and Ping sell? NOT THAT!!! So if you have 0 respect for TM, you must not have any for Adams or Ping right? So, what are you really trying to point out here?? I really would like to know.

      Reply

      JIM S

      12 years ago

      There’s quite a big difference between technology that affects performance, and a paint job. If you do some research as to why Adams has slots on the top and bottom, and why TM only has a slot on the sole, you might find they have different philosophies as to what is more efficient. They are both innovative products that work quite well, and one might work better for one person than the other.

      Shaunthesheep

      12 years ago

      Got an Adams rep coming in to see our team tommorow to say he’s gonna have questions to answer is an understatement. lol

      Reply

      John Barry

      12 years ago

      These other companies need to take a look at TM. and start thinking outside the box, and fast. Also, those doing marketing for the other companies should be cleared out, and fresh people brought in with new ideas, goals and direction. Not tooting my own horn, but I would bet my year’s salary I could go to any of the bigger OEM’s and gain ground with in the year.

      Reply

      bart

      12 years ago

      Hi Guys,

      I just started playing golf last June at the age of 46, and quickly became addicted. I had no pre-concieved notions of brands and only remembered hearing about Big Bertha in the past. When I went to my local golf shop I wanted to buy the best of everything, but they told me to not waste my money and that I should start with a starter set, then as I got better and developed a swing I could upgrade. He was right and it gave me time to research the brands and clubs. I scoured the internet, read every review for the other sites and came away more confused. Everything was gold or silver, 5 stars, 15 yards longer, best (insert name of club) I have ever hit.

      Then I found an incredibly helpful and knowledgeable site called mygolfspy.com. Great site check it out! Finally a rating system with details, and straightforward reviews without pressure from the ad sales department. I trust the info on this site without question.

      The one thing I noted when I first came here was “TM = Microsoft” attitude. More so from the users then the staff but it was there.

      I have not replaced my fairway woods and I am waiting to read a comparison review between RKZ and Adams (I can’t remember their club name). Interesting. So when will we see that “Vs” golf spy’s?

      Truly thanks for all you do!!!

      Reply

      RP Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Bart, I’m sorry though my reply to your comment ended up under Steve P’s above…My comments seem to be like my ball, landing every where but where I intended them to..oh well..Golf & computers, very humbling….The best….Fairway’s & Greens 4ever……

      Reply

      bart

      12 years ago

      Hi RP,
      I would love to take them both out, but I am left handed. The local shops do not have the Adams in stock and I feel bad about asking them to bring one in and then not buying it. With the RBZ they have 1 3 wood if I’m lucky. I went to Myrtle Beach (no time for golf) and went to Martins in the hope of swinging both but again no demo clubs in either. I feel like a red-headed step child.
      I’m going to open a left handed golf shop.

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Bart – First…I’m glad you stumbled upon our site, and are enjoying what you’ve found here so far.

      Regarding Adams vs. TaylorMade (and even vs. Nike) on the fairway wood front:

      I never say anything is a done deal until I have the clubs in my hand, but I expect we’ll be starting work on an Adams F12 Fairway review shortly. We also have tentative plans to review the XTD fairways and hybrids, as well as the F12 Driver.

      It goes without saying that we hope to review the RBZ lineup as well.

      Confessions of a TaylorMade Advertising

      12 years ago

      Dirty little secret,
      dirty little lies.
      Say your prayers and comb your hair,
      Save your soul tonight.

      Reply

      Gavin

      12 years ago

      Maybe I’m too young to understand all the other companies but Cobra/Puma really appeals to me. Plus I’m not really clear why everyone assumes there is no tech or the tech is inferior to the other OEMs. Cobra guys have been at it for years making the tech better and better, I think they are the only company taking the risk of remaking their image.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Gavin – I couldn’t agree more. In the 2 years that I’ve been writing for MyGolfSpy Cobra woods and irons have consistently been big performers for us. The S3 irons were quite possibly the biggest surprise I’ve ever had while testing equipment. And the drivers always put up big numbers.

      And yes…Cobra’s PUMA-infused marketing approach is risky for sure. While most in the industry target a demographic, Cobra is essentially trying to create one. I think it’s going to work, and while I don’t expect it will be a game changing number, I suspect they’ll start to pull some of the young/beginning golfer crowd away from TaylorMade.

      Reply

      Matt

      12 years ago

      I think coba is going to be surpriseingly good this year they understand how much looks effect people decisions

      Reply

      Curt

      12 years ago

      LEVI, I hope you’ve at least put some new shaft technology in them!

      Reply

      Curt

      12 years ago

      Yohanan, I wouldn’t spray paint it because it would make it “way” to heavy. You have more of a luxury being able to be fitted like that. Very rare up here in Canada. You will find what you need but I can’t seem to find a club to sell someone that outperforms these TM ones. TM next year, make them available in black or white.

      Reply

      Yohanan

      12 years ago

      Hey Curt – I will go hit both the R11S and the RBZ just for you. My mind said, OMG No, when I picked up the well worn, dirty R11 last Aug when i ended up with a VR Pro 9.5 with PX 6.0 stiff that balloned on me. Not the clubs fault, just my swing and settled for a Round MS as mentioned. Anyway i will try to close my eyes and hit the white clubs because my bag is open to just about anything which would mean my mind and wallet is just about open to anything that improves my game. After all thats why i am here? As far as my spelling and or gramar errors sorry. I type fast on a droid or this gtab and stay clear of this site with my company pc. Oh and i am going to hit the RZF with a Fubuki Alpha next week when I Fit in Folsom lands it. If i can get past the the life force being sucked out of me by those white clubs i would even go hit the TM performance studio at Aviara in Carlsbad in order to get get properly fit and settle this once and for all. After all how much is can of flat black spray paint? You taking notes TMAG marketing guy?

      Reply

      LEVI

      12 years ago

      Curt the reason I wouldnt open up to new technoligy in irons is because there isnt new technoligy in them and why would I leave a well made set of 1984 Titleist Tour model set of irons for a cheaper made 712 series of irons. Thats why people on here would love to have a set of the old Titleist 680s irons over their new ones of today, thats why people on ebay are selling brand new sets of those 680s for over a grand. Wake up and smell the coffe Titleist

      Reply

      Ron

      12 years ago

      peter well said I wouldnt either its garbage but then again TMG targets all of the gullable people out there, so unfortunetly it wont stop. next year R13 two years from that R15 give me a break.

      Reply

      Mstod

      12 years ago

      I’d be really curious to see which consumers go into a store looking for the best performing club from any brand vs the consumer who must have a club from a certain company. Then see which group gets the better results the next day out on the course. I think TM makes a good product ( I own a TM Hybrid), I just don’t think they make the best product in all categories all the time for all people. And yet it seems people spend their money in a way that indicates that they do. I know it’s marketing but you would think golfers would be more interested in playing better.

      Reply

      Peter Ciambrone

      12 years ago

      White heads, rocket blue balz, r21 and what ever will be next for this marketing company that happens to sell golf clubs can keep thier crap, no way I would EVER play, buy or support TMAG, bunch of BS crap. I’ve heard some interesting stories from reps on tour about how some of thier players hate the white driver and some of their other crap.

      Reply

      Kurt

      12 years ago

      Callaway- great product the last 2 years but they didn’t the 2 before. They have a chip on there shoulder that’s very evident when dealing with there reps. How do you drop the Big Bertha name?
      Adams- if people gave them a chance they would be surprised. Great irons, woods and hybrids.
      Nike- it’s a afterthought for all but the most loyal, which is sad, especially since they make a really good product.
      Titleist- as my rep says “we are a ball company”. That really says it all. Best woods I hit last year
      Ping- no innovation. Until they go adjustable they won’t go anywhere.
      Cobra- I can see them taking on Taylor. Lots of money, going after a young crowd. Best woods I’ve hit this year, Amp.
      Cleveland- not even in the discussion

      Reply

      cdvilla

      12 years ago

      My sense is that many recreational players want to emulate the pros in that we want our clubs, hat, shirts, balls, etc. to match. Adidas/TaylorMade makes that easy. Nike makes that easy. Titleist/FootJoy makes it easy. (Puma/Cobra?) They offer a full line that people can buy into then show up to the course looking the part. I know this site is leans a bit toward the hardcore “quality is the only measure” end of the spectrum, but there are a lot of people who like the fashion aspect of the game and I have no issue with that.

      Regardless of what I think about their equipment, I think that TM is doing a fantasic job with their marketing which really is the entire point of this article.

      Reply

      Kyle

      12 years ago

      Great read. I’d really love to hear your thoughts on Ping and Cobra and why they are ‘different’.

      Regarding Nike: They aren’t a company that’s always been a golf manufacturer. They did (and still do) have their hands into everything, basketball, football, soccer, running, the list goes on and on. So, some people’s (including mine) perception of them is that they aren’t or can’t be as focused on one particular RnD department. I know they have the money to put an infinite amount of research into anything they develop, but it’s hard to see Nike in the golf mfg. world the same way we see Titleist, Ping, Callaway, TM.

      Reply

      RP Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Kyle, excellent summation of Nike…..Although I do play their VR PRO hybrid I don’t really care for them & you hit the nail on the head…great comment…Greens & Fairways ⁴ever…

      Reply

      Tanksfurnutin

      12 years ago

      Funny this article should show up today. I was talking to my father this weekend and he was telling me how much he likes his new Rocketballz fairway wood he just got. I replied that it seems to be getting a lot of press but I just didn’t like the whole white head thing that Taylor is doing. He says, “Yea, I’m not really sure I like the white either”. I then tell him, “You know Adams came out with almost the same technology last year”. His response, “Really, I didn’t know that.”

      I’m not making this up. It just goes to show you how advertising and what you people see on TV affecting what they buy.

      Reply

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      While I agree with the premise of your article, “MARKETING & CREATIVITY” are just one piece Taylormade’s business model that appears truly optimized to make money in the golf industry. As much as it pains me, they employ other important strategies that make them a juggernaut:
      -Tour penetration: 75+ players on PGA tour? For $3000/week to play a new R11 driver, how can players resist? TMAG’s huge tour budget means that they will be far more visible and win more often and lend more credibility to the “pros are all playing TMAG” marketing.
      -Distribution: TMAG uses more cash/credits/buybacks/freebies at their distributors and retailers than anyone else and that makes them a very enticing partner for a golf shop.
      -Supply chain: TMAG’s huge sales allows more bulk purchasing and domination over their suppliers to drive down manufacturing costs (many TMAG suppliers hate dealing with them but can’t afford not to).
      -Cost reduction: while making way for new product launches, TMAG continues to manufacture old models using reduced cost methods so that they can discount the retail price while maintaining profit margin (instead of simply selling through current inventory). For one example: TMAG converted the ’09 Burner driver from cast Titanium to a much cheaper 4-piece welded construction that is much cheaper, but results in a slightly inferior product. These two different drivers were sold as the exact same product!

      There are certainly more reasons, but Taylormade’s dominance goes far beyond simple marketing and product design. For better or worse, their entire organization and business plan is built to make money, and they make a quality product only to the extent that it furthers their bottom line. This is generally how industry leaders are, and no other golf company has so completely aligned themselves with the goal of profit to be a true competitor.

      FINALLY, I am in agreement with previous commenters regarding PING. In 2011 they were either 2nd or 3rd in sales of metal woods, irons, putters, and bags. That makes them a MAJOR player. While I agree they are different, it’s an oversight to leave them out of any competitive analysis of the golf market.

      Reply

      Will

      12 years ago

      I think the next major innovation will be the company that perfects custom fitting in stores.

      It’s a two pronged issue, as the company will have to have trained professionals fitting customers and a good enough manufacturing arm to actually build the clubs to spec.

      A company that does it well from putter-driver will buid an insanely loyal fan base, and the custom fit clubs will outperform the off the rack competition for years to come… so even people trying to switch away will be disappointed.

      Reply

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      That brand is named PING, and they do have an insanely loyal, but relatively small, fan base.

      Not meaning to be a jerk with this comment. Do you envision a higher level of custom fitting that hasn’t been attained yet at the more specialized stores (like Edwin Watts, not Golf Galaxy)?

      Reply

      Kyle

      12 years ago

      I’m one of those Ping loyal fans. But even Ping doesn’t come close to a perfect fitting. Sure, they can built to length, lie, any shaft you want, but they still just do a ‘glue job’ when it comes to building the clubs. There’s so much more involved in putting the clubs together; getting the swing weights correct and in order, the shafts pured, setting the frequency, MOI matching to each individuals swing and more.
      I was ‘fitted’ at Golfsmith for my S56’s before I knew what I do now about fitting. Looking back, it was a half-assed fitting job. Since then I’ve been re-fitted through a professional club fitter who I was fortunate enough to find within an hour of where I live. He took fitting to a whole new level. Something even Ping can’t do for everyone. Will is right, custom fit clubs will out perform off-the-rack clubs. But, thoroughly and professionally custom fit clubs, now that’s where the real results. The hard part for the mfg’s is finding the fitters to do it, and have the clubs built in a reasonable amount of time for a reasonable amount of money.

      KFlare

      12 years ago

      I get where you’re going. Yeah, finding the fitters with the knowledge and equipment will always be difficult to fit into a sustainable business model, but we can hope things keep moving that way!

      Curt

      12 years ago

      Have you ever been in a golf store Will? Please get better. Kyle I definitely agree with you 100% though. People just don’t understand this and really don’t care enough about there golf game to do this though. They come into the store basically just buying for brand and I still see many people buying Ping clubs straight off the rack.

      Jon W.

      12 years ago

      Please if you have one of these in your area, go to one. Speaking of TaylorMade.

      TaylorMade Performance Labs. The only Tour like fitting system available to the general public. They use both indoor and outdoor analysis. They do not use SIMULATORS, they use real 3d technology. I have been to one in San Diego, best thing I have ever been through. I have been to all the golf shop fittings, demo days, etc. This is beyond belief accurate. Because it is like they use a calculator to figure out what you need. No lie boards, tape, old school stuff. Launch monitors, dressing up in a suit and seeing yourself in 3D, plus they have all the custom options!!!! They dont give you right off the shelf crap. How many people out there actually play well and hit the ball in the center with off the shelf clubs? All the technology out there these days in the clubs, how the heck are we normal golfers supposed to know how it benefits each of our swings. Let alone how do we even know what it does?? Do yourself a favor and research these “Labs” a little bit. It is a one on one session, you’re not treated like a number, get through in 20 minutes and only hit into a net. When I went through this, the last question I asked myself was – “how the hell have I let myself purchase clubs when testing for them, I don’t even see the ball flight?!?!?!?” That is like going to purchase a car and you only drive the thing around the parking lot and test out the bells and whistles. People want to take it out and see what the car has under the hood and it performs which is exactly what you do with this kind of fitting. I went through a session last summer. Got a whole set, handicap dropped from 9.7 to 3.2 in 6 months, including breaking 70 for the first time. I then took my father in the next week who is a 30 handicapper. He has never shot three rounds in a row under 90. He did it two months ago, TWICE!!!!

      Joe

      12 years ago

      You are right on the money here. TM has become Microsoft of the golfing world and I don’t yet see any Apple on the horizon. The only real danger they have is alienating customers from over-exposure. I know a few people who will not play a TM simply because it is a TM and everyone has one. Not a big problem for TM now, but that will eventually start to hurt them. I loved my old TM supersteel woods and the old ‘find your game’ slogan with a Scottish accent. But I don’t think anyone would consider TM ‘traditional’ these days.

      Product wise Callaway is the only real competitor with sharp looking and preforming equipment for all levels. But they are just reacting to TM at this point. They need to lead.

      I think Cleveland is making a good move with the Classic driver, targeting a market that has been ignored for a long long time. I fully expect to see Classic FW’s, Cleeks and Rutting irons from them if the driver sells well. Combine that with the Black Series and they have a nice one two punch with classic and tech. But the Mashie line is just not going to cut it and they don’t have enough other product to compete.

      Have to agree with the others on Adams. I like their stuff but they are in the PR wilderness. They can’t even capitalize on their own good ideas. Adams is not ‘cool’ and its not classic. They will need a lot of work just to get it the same league as Cleveland and Callaway- never mind TM.

      Nice article.

      Reply

      Paul Lafleur

      12 years ago

      Love your articles in general. Pretty much disagree with every point made in this one. The heart thing is stupid. Rocketballz is stupid. So much so, the only reason it wasn’t pulled was momentum and loss.

      Reply

      max w.

      12 years ago

      wonder how much tmag payed for this

      Reply

      mygolfspy

      12 years ago

      At this point do I even need to address such ridiculous comments anymore? But nevertheless, let me give you just a plethora of reasons this is such an assinine comment:

      1. If I were going to sell out to one company for one article…dont you think I would have sold out to ALL the companies to make that much more money. I mean do you really think ONE article is worth what I have invested in this over the past 3-4 years?

      2. We have never allowed ANY big golf company to advertise on MyGolfSpy. If you knew the amount of money I have turned down from big golf companies I think you would finally get the BIG picture. What is that BIG picture? That I write for one group and that is YOU…I could care less about pleasing the OEM’s in this industry (ask people that work with me or why don’t you call Taylormade and see what their opinion on me selling out is). I don’t do this for the money if I did I would have already sold out like the rest of the sites in this industry.

      3. OK NOW LISTEN REALLY CLOSELY TO THIS ONE. I have turned down multiple five & six figure ad deals from individual companies to advertise on our site. In my quick estimiations it adds up to over $250,000 this year. I TURNED IT DOWN…DID YOU HEAR THAT. I don’t make barely enough money to pay my bills and feed my family…and I have funded this site entirely out of my own pocket. So keep getting your Golf Digest and turn the station off of MGS if you don’t have the brains to see the difference.

      ALL the other large sites take the big dollars we don’t…so you tell me who has sold out and who is trying to do things the right way. The way I see it…you guys can keep assuming something as naive as your comment for the next ten years if you would like…but trust me the day MGS is gone from this industry is the day you are truly going to be dealing with some sellouts and that is the day you would have wished we were never gone.

      At this point I don’t need to waste my time explaining myself anymore…believe what you want to believe. I say my tracks record in the industry the last 13 years stands for itself.

      Reply

      RP Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      MGS, you definitely don’t owe any one of us a single word of explanation much less the comment above…That you took the time to attempt to explain to max & those that think @ his level is a credit to you..Your’e a better man than I!..If someone(max) can’t see from any part of this site that you answer to NOONE, except yourself & your fellow employees, then no amount of explaining will do..Unfortunately, there is a portion of the human species that are idiots..Whether it’s genetic, enviromental or acquired is open for debate, though what is not open to debate is that unfortunately, they have to be tolerated…Though like young, immature children, if you ignore them, they eventually go away…To attempt to please everyone(just look @ most of the golf OEMs), you end up pleasing very few, especially those who deserve your time, thoughts & energy…max, & those that swim in the genetic mudpuddle that bred him are in the former group..Forget ’em…Nuff said..The best..Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      Curt

      12 years ago

      Do you have a job for me? That was beyond well said and truly will keep me coming back to this website everyday. Max Dub is just jealous because he doesn’t do what he loves. He sits in an office and stirs that he has to hand in his TPS reports everyday instead of dealing and talking with golf equipment everyday. MGS FOREVER!

      Three Guys Golf Blog

      12 years ago

      Being new the the blog game I am in awe of your site. Until you do it you have no idea what it takes to write 500 good words let alone you virtual encyclopedia of info. I spent like 2 hours reading your iron reviews before I went to the store. My hats off!

      mygolfspy

      12 years ago

      Appreciate the tip of the cap.

      RC

      12 years ago

      I have been “fiending” for everything that is golf on the web for at least 14 years, and I found MGS a couple of years ago. There is no other site that consistently dishes out the real deal. There is no selling out going on here – that guy would know that if he could read with comprehension. I would encourage him to go back and read some of the older reviews so that he can get the real flavor of this site.
      That being said, I think I’m a TaylorMade fan because some of their stuff works for me. We have a golf super store here in L.A. that gives you 90 days, same as cash, no questions asked on club purchases. I tried out the Ping drivers, Tour Edge, Callaway, and others, but the TaylorMade brand has produced 2 Drivers that were head and shoulders above the others – The 2007 Burner, and the 2012 R11 S. But the real story for me is the 3 wood. I’m currently hitting the RBZ 3 Wood after reluctantly switching from the Tour Edge Exotics. Believe it or not, the RBZ gives me at least 15 yards more on the average than the Tour Edge (which is “guaranteed” 20 yards more than any other.) I have hit the RBZ (3 wood) 30 yards further off the tee than any other 3 wood I’ve ever hit. (Once – maybe my only sweet spot hit with a 3 wood ever?) 2 guys I play with bought the RBZ 3 wood because of seeing my “improvement”. One guy had other TaylorMade clubs, the other swears by Titleist. What one should learn from this? Find a club that works for you and believe in it – confidence leads to better scores!

      Ed

      12 years ago

      The reason people look in tour bags is the same reason people cheer on auto brands that spend so much money racing. We all know the Fords/Chevys/Chryslers/Toyotas that go around the oval has not a single part in common with the cars we buy off the show room. However, if a certain brand is able to win more races, have more winners play their golf balls, and have more winners play their clubs, it creates a halo effect around that brand. Do brands with the halo effect sell more? Do the math and you’ll see that in many cases it does. Why, because consciously or subconsciously, people want to be associated with winners. Does it make sense, not to me, but it seems to work in marketing.

      I believe it has limits, look at Nike, but I guarantee you that if Tiger was’t playing it, they wouldn’t have stood a chance in entering the market as much as they have.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Excellent points, especially regarding Nike..Fairways & Greens 4ever…

      Reply

      Robertz

      12 years ago

      golfspy T Why is it that I have more problems with TM equipment regarding things breaking and heads caving in compared to other companys, its because their quality is not good at all, They may have good RnD but their quality is the worse by far that I have ever dealed with and Im sure Im not alone. Bottom line is that they spend most their money advertising and sponsering gys on tour, even non TM staffers are paid big money to use their woods and thats a fact, LOVE111 and DONALD, Those gys and others are paid 1800 dollars a WEEK to use their woods at tour stops. They pimp themselves out to every living sole that is a good golfer.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Robertz…I would fully expect that one would see significantly more broken TaylorMade clubs than any other brand. Of course, a healthy percentage of that can likely be attributed to the fact that there are significantly more TaylorMade products in the wild than any other brand. Everybody’s clubs break…and if there’s on really great thing about the golf equipment industry it is that everybody stands behind his product, and most will honor warranties long after they are expired.

      From a material composition perspective, I’m told that there is no difference in quality between TaylorMade’s Tour Issue equipment and the off the rack stuff (that wasn’t the case a decade a go).

      But yes…the money TM spends on tour guys is comparatively obscene.

      Reply

      Richard P. Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      MGS, thank you for adressing the comments regarding Adams’ visibility on the PGA Tour, so I don’t have to waste my time, though I did adress this issue in the comments section of the review of the 9064LS driver in response to Al’s similar statements…Most people are of the herd mentality & so they feel a need to play what they see played by others whether it’s their peers or on tour, though most don’t realize that the clubs that are played on tour are NOTHING like the clubs that most amateurs play…

      SGI to Players’ irons & MWs to hybrids, Adams can go toe to toe with TM, & in many areas, they are superior..The only non Mizuno iron I’ve played in the past 26 yrs were the Pro Golds(They took the 67s outa my bag, no contest)…Hit the MB2 then the TM MB & tell me you tell me…MGS hit it right on when he says that Adams has to grow a pair..Instead of playing into the “senior” stereotype(Using Kenny Perry, Champion’s Tour player in latest add), they should use Aaron Baddeley..He’s got game, he’s got the face & personality..I like Ryan moore, though he might be alittle too low key…If someone bases their opinion of clubs on their visibility on tour(I guess that means Muira & Mizuno don’t make the grade, right?), they probably don’t know the Darrell Survey from Darryl Strawberry…

      No, PGA visability has more to do with corprate strategic direction & bank accounts & very little to do with club quality…If you doubt this, instead of getting defensive in your comments, go & hit the Adams clubs, though it’s also gonna take a pair to play something that might not be what the other sheep are playing…Then if you still think that they are not top shelf, come on back, I aint goin anywhere..BTW, nice article, accurate assessment of OEMs…Fairways & Greens 4ever..

      Reply

      levi

      12 years ago

      I have 30 year old titleist tour model irons and they feel miles better than todays titleist irons. Todays titleist irons are made so cheap compared to how they use to make em. Food for thought fr you gear heads out there.

      Reply

      Curt

      12 years ago

      Get with the times. If there was any common sense used in that you would of not replied. Open up your mind and try out and stick with something new. It blows me away how people don’t think they need to upgrade there clubs. I’m not saying buying every year but get real here or open up and try other companies. There are to many options out there to be so close minded.

      Reply

      RON

      12 years ago

      By the way why are all of you gys so interested in what their using out on tour anyway, the public is not getting the same stuff anyhow, plus their not using most of this stuff because they like it its because their getting paid big bucks to use it, if that makes you gys want to use clubs like TM and so on I feel sorry for you. Stop being like a little kid by trying to copy your hero by using his clubs and grow up.

      Reply

      Ron

      12 years ago

      I will say this Iam so sick and tired of looking at tour bags every week on skunkwrx and seeing nothing but TM , they hog almost every player out there, what are they trying to prove anyway. It was never like this before with golf companys like RAM, MCGREGER,PING,SPALDING,WILSON,TITLEIST,BEN HOGAN,MAXFLI,,MIZUNO, and so on , this company seems to be buying out the pga tour and its sickening. Funny thing is that their clubs aint half the quality of the companys I listed above.

      Reply

      Jon W.

      12 years ago

      How many of those companies are still in business? The reason why you see a lot of Tmag presence on Tour players bags? THEIR PRODUCT WORKS!!!!! I have always said, if you see it in a Tour’s players bag, it is probably a solid product, no matter what your handicap is. Luke Donald #1 in the world, Paddy Harrington 3 majors, G-Mac, US Open winner, Ricky Barnes, Jonathan Byrd, Brandt Snedeker, and the list goes on. You know what they all have in common? They all are signed and make a lot of money from other companies!!!!! Yeah Mizuno drivers are real solid, ask Luke and Byrd. TaylorMade does not pay a dime to Luke Donald for hitting an R11. Their clubs “aint” half the quality of the other brands? How do you explain #1 Driver every week on Tour, #1 Fairway wood every week on Tour and #1 in Irons every week on Tour? That’s like saying even though Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Tiger Woods, Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, and Charles Barkley wear Nikes, they are horrible because they are not high-top Chuck Taylors. If you are playing a Wilson driver, RAM putter, Ben Hogan irons and a Spalding golf ball, dude, wake up. It is 2012. Everyone in your group probably bombs it by you by 45 yards huh? So log off your 1998 Dell lap top and go hit the RBZ fairway and R11s driver, they are pretty sweet. Try a ProV1, pretty decent golf ball. Odyssey putters – yeah that actually is an insert, makes the ball roll better.

      Reply

      Nicteck

      12 years ago

      I work in a fairly large on-course golf store, and have had a chance to observe both sides of the TaylorMade thing for a few years. MyGolfSpy is exactly right. TaylorMade has been swallowing the smaller companies market share in metal woods for years. One tactic that I have notice that no one is talking about is how TM will re-release a previous years driver at a very discounted price the next year. For example, being able to buy last years Burner SuperFast driver for $150. This has really hurt several smaller companies that used to make a good driver that fit in that $120-180 price range. What would you buy?? Some off brand, or the driver that Sergio was talking about on Golf Channel 6 months ago?? Pure genius.

      Reply

      Aresnik

      12 years ago

      What you are talking about is closeouts… TaylorMade will even go so far to make their closeout drivers with lesser materials. They have the same name and color, but they are not the same club. And you are right. The smaller companies do have to over come this. But the smaller companies also have one advantage, they don’t have the overhead like TM, Nike and Callaway do. So when you actually see one of the smaller companies clubs on the rack, Orlimar for example, give them a shot. No they won’t perform as well as the big boys, but they will be very comparable. Especially when we are talking irons.

      Reply

      Shaunthesheep

      12 years ago

      First time poster, long time follower.

      As a golfer you have to have been living under a rock not to recognise Taylormades dominance but working in retailing golf equipment makes this article ring that every bit clearer.

      One thing that suprised me from this article is no mention of the Cobra/Puma connection!? You guys have certainly recognised thier potential within previous write ups so what gives? Have they just been acidently overlooked in this particular post or do you genuinely not see them getting in on the fight?

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      I’m sure X has his own opinion, but Cobra/PUMA, like PING is a bit different. Based on what we’re seeing, CP’s approach is to compete vigorously for a specific demographic. You might even argue that they’ve created the demographic.

      They make an outstanding product…generally speaking as good as anyone’s, but I don’t see them trying to compete full force against TaylorMade. Instead I suspect they’ll attempt to carve a niche for themselves, and then grow it as much as they possibly can.

      Reply

      Shaunthesheep

      12 years ago

      Thanks T

      I can see now while Cobra/PUMA will attract new customers with many a young Ricky Fowler type amongst us they are just as likely losing the senior guys and higher handicaps who have no interest in making any kind of brave statement.

      This year the sales team of which I am a part of are looking towards Adams golf and at the very least to make them become an alternative consideration for our customers. We like yourselves see them leap frogging brands but only if we can actually get thier products into buyers hands in the first place. For the time being over here in the UK it is very much “who!?”.

      Curt

      12 years ago

      I still have big problems trying to sell Cobra…I love CP and everything they have started but there aren’t many people out there looking for a colored driver with the same if not worse technology than TM, Callway, Adams and Nike.

      Robertz

      12 years ago

      What people have to realize is the more a company spends on marketing the less they can and will spend on quality of their product and this sentence has TM written all over it. From working in the golf business i found that more and more Taylor Made driver heads have caved in than any other companys, does that tell you boys something.

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Robertz – I think you may be oversimplifying the correlation just a bit. Yes, TM has a huge marketing department, but they also have a huge R&D/Engineering department as well. While some companies are forced to make a difficult decision between marketing/PR & product engineering, TaylorMade isn’t one of them. Their budget is big enough that they’re able to allocate everything they need to both sides.

      Reply

      Curt

      12 years ago

      I’ve been in the golf business for the past 8 years and I would disagree with the amount of caved in driver faces. In most cases it is the general public that have bad swings and never take a lesson that cave in these drivers. These aren’t made to take the abuse an average joe golfer with no time to practice and who truly doesn’t care much about the game and respecting there equipment.

      Brian Cass

      12 years ago

      Not to mention PING as well, would concur with previous poster that PING is certainly ahead of Adams in my mind. Who is playing Adams wedges, anybody????????? Not bashing Adams as they have made serious progress but not super serious contender in my mind for uber market share on tour or with general public.

      Reply

      mygolfspy

      12 years ago

      I decided to leave PING out of this article because in all honesty they are just different than the others. I could write an entire separate article about that…but for now I will just say they are…different.

      Reply

      BR

      12 years ago

      Please write an article on your view of Ping. It should be a good read.

      Kyle

      12 years ago

      I would love to hear your thoughts on that as well.

      Brian Cass

      12 years ago

      Interesting look at the golf world but Adams in my mind is WAY down the list. Nice equipment sure but look at how many PGA guys trust a full bag of Adams….not many.
      Maybe some will argue that Callaway/Titleist/Cleveland/Nike will pay guys more to play a full or nearly full bag but my view is that if Adams was that good top to bottom, they’d have more PGA guys, not just seniors playing their full line.

      Reply

      mygolfspy

      12 years ago

      Brian,

      We are not talking about who paid the most to be listed on the Darrell Survey for this weeks tournament. I am looking at this from both inside the industry and outside the industry as a consumer. Maybe it is because I hear about what goes on behind the scenes with these companies that has me formulating my opinions in this article. But Adams doesn’t have more people on the PGA Tour (WHICH MEANS NOTHING REGARDING QUALITY OF EQUIPMENT) because they don’t have the money. They are not even close to the spending scale of the others listed in this article. But if it came down to performance alone Adams is at the big boys table for sure…trust me. Your arguement regarding who has the most tour players has little relevance to where you are on the LIST of companies who are doing it the right way.

      Reply

      Golfspy Matt

      12 years ago

      I would add one other thing: look at the number of guys who ARE playing an Adams club while on staff with someone else. Not sure if he still is, but Fowler was playing one for a long time, as are many others.

      Consider that Adams is #1 or #2 in hybrids on the PGA Tour WITHOUT spending the $$$ of other OEMs. That speaks to performance more than anything else, don’t you think?

      Curt

      12 years ago

      Well put Matt. You can probably look at the other tours (SPGA & LPGA) and see how much they are played as well. As a golf salesman you are seeing them starting a brand recognition/loyalty with higher handicappers. As of a couple weeks ago Rickie still had it in his bag.

      Steve P.

      12 years ago

      Brian,
      I find the use of the word “trust” in your post hysterical. Most clubs put in play by tour players are only done so with the pro “trusting” that the check they get paid to play them won’t bounce. Listen, Adams doesn’t make golf shoes. Adams doesn’t make golf balls. Adams doesn’t make apparel. Adams only makes golf clubs. And the margins on equipment are near the bottom among golf products. Do you really think TaylorMade could afford to throw around cash to any Monday qualifying tour player that agrees to bag their driver that week if they were not owned by Adidas. That Adidas shirt you pay $70 for in a pro shop was sold to the shop for around $37-$40 and the material and manufacturing cost to Adidas is likely in the neighborhood of 4 bucks. Golf ball margins are about as obscene. There is no bottomless wallet for Adams to go out sign just anybody to full bag deals. The fact that Adams has, since 2008, been number one in hybrid usage individually on all 3 men’s tours should scream of the superior performance of their hybrids given that they start every week on the PGA Tour down around 35 to 3 in staff player counts compared to Titleist and TaylorMade. Johnson Wagner and Brandt Snedeker are 2 winners already this year that have used Adams hybrids in their victories. Why didn’t you see them in Adams’ “win ads” for their victories, because they didn’t get paid jack. You’ll notice Rickie didn’t give up his Adams hybrid(s) when he went Cobra. VJ has bagged their hybrids quietly for years. G-MAC cashed in with a new bag after his open win, but structured his new bag to omit required hybrids. You’ll never see an Adams ad with any of those guys because they don’t get $. When the behemoth mentioned in this article FLAT OUT copies technology that Adams brought to market a year ago in fairway woods and hybrids, and then has the nerve to market the RBZ as having “game changing” technology that “they” pioneered, that should say more than enough about where Adams Golf is most focused, producing superior equipment and leaving the hype to the others.

      Reply

      Curt

      12 years ago

      Very educated opinion, agree 100%.

      RP Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Steve, thank you!….Fairway’s & Greens 4ever…….

      RP Jacobs II

      12 years ago

      Bart, humbling game, isn’t it?..lol…regarding the Adams FM vs. TM, they are both top shelf & you really can’t go wrong with either one if you get properly fit…I happen to play the F11Ti(titanium face) though I have played the F12 & RBZ TOUR S(13′) & 14.5’…As I hit balls on the practice tee & played both, I bought the TOUR S(13′) though it will not replace the F11Ti in my bag….You can pick up the F11Ti for what the new MWs are selling for(give or take depending on who you buy it from) & if you get fit for the proper shaft, it’s a wicked club..You picked two of the finest MWs on the market…While you’re waiting for the “vs” review, take ’em both out & hit ’em & play ’em, and you make the call..which ever one ya choose will give you some great shots….The best this season….Fairway’s & Greens 4ever……

      Yohanan

      12 years ago

      Hey TMAG marketing guy who reads this blog. How many people wont buy the white club s because they look strange and bloated? What if the club s was available TMAG “classic”? I mean that burnt orange you used for years I am sure offended many prospective buyers? It did foe me then as the white does now? Why not take it step further I and make a black ball?

      I like technology. I like hype. I like performance. I don’t like your white club and can’t even bring myself to demo them last year. I even bought a full set of SF woods and still have the hybrids in my bag.

      I agree CALLAWAY needs to pick it up. Hopefully the RZF does the trick to kick start and the HEX Black is well received?

      SPY- NO PING in your article? I think they have always embraced technology and at the same time being non traditionalist while now being sort of bland? Or just being PING?

      My bag is currently a mix to say the least. NICKELNT 4DX EVOLVED (first adjustable I bought 3 plus years ago. NIKE round Mach speed driver as back up and target golf. PING K15 3 WOOD. The aforementioned SF Hybrids PING G 5 Irons. CLEVELAND CG 16 wedges (getting replaced soon may put the CG 11s back in the bag till I settle this) and a Odyssey Dart putter.

      WHAT EVER WORKS IS MY MOTTO and the white clubs arent going in my bag because I can’t get past the way they make me feel about them? Bloated uninspiring blinding overstated lamp shades?

      Cheers

      Reply

      Curt

      12 years ago

      Brutal reply right there, try out the new TM and tell me how they perform. People will change there minds when they are hitting this “white club” further than any other one. Get better spelling and open up your mind.

      Reply

      Brad

      12 years ago

      Hey curt, I guess you have not hit razr fit or Adams new driver. Crushes white by at least 8-12 yards on every trackman. TM is genius but their driver dispersion pattern is horrid for the average golfer. new RBZ irons sure look familiar? Genius marketing that out spends R&D 4-1 and that’s a fact. Wilson and macGregor once thought they owned the industry.

      Hatcher J.

      12 years ago

      The problem is when “marketing” is concerned nothing is more powerful than brand loyalty. And when golf is concerned its hard to sway golfers to update their clubs let alone play a completely new brand. Personally I believe Nike has a great plan in place, though you won’t see the effects for some time. Given that golf is geared so much towards brand loyalty you have to compete by appealing to the younger generation (get your clubs in their hands before anyone else’s). You see examples of this across the board, their apparel, their balls, even their quirky looking equipment is all geared towards looking cool to the younger player. You can spend as much money as you want to try but fail at changing the perceptions of stubborn consumers or you can put that same budget into forming the perceptions of your future. Using the same boxing analogy, Taylormade is that “hard hitting” strong heavyweight (Tyson). You can’t beat him by trying to match him blow for blow (Michael Spinks). You have to slowly and methodically go to the body, take his legs away, make him go the distance and next thing you know… (BUSTER DOUGLAS)!!!

      Reply

      GolfSpy T

      12 years ago

      Brand loyalty is an amazing force in the industry, and one that’s extremely difficult for another company to overcome (equally as difficult to overcome is a strong brand aversion which we see from time to time).

      At my club I have guys that won’t consider anything other than Callaway. I have a friend who plays only Nike, and of course, there are legions of devout TaylorMade guys.

      Apart from simply being better at the marketing end of things (this includes traditional advertising, special promotions ie driverlove, R11 foul pole, etc.), I would also add that TaylorMade is kicking the snot out of everyone on the Social Media front as well. What some don’t get that TaylorMade has clearly figured out is that Facebook & Twitter shouldn’t be “me, me, me, me”. Yes…they promote their products, but if you observe the way they interact with their followers, and compare it to how Callaway and others use the medium… They simply do a much better job of engaging their fans.

      Finally, because of the effective marketing strategies, TaylorMade has done an amazing job of luring new golfers to their products. This is how brand loyalty starts, and nobody has historically been better. Incidentally, this is probably where TaylorMade is most vulnerable. Cobra-PUMA is making an effort to target the younger demographic, and thus far I like what I’m seeing. While I don’t think they’ll ever go toe to toe with TMAG, I do see them being able to steal some market share there.

      Reply

    Leave A Reply

    required
    required
    required (your email address will not be published)

    This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

    Golf Wedges
    Apr 16, 2024
    Vokey WedgeWorks Low Bounce K Grind Wedge
    News
    Apr 16, 2024
    It Was A Masters To Forget For LIV Golf
    Golf Apparel
    Apr 16, 2024
    adidas Pioneers Next Generation of Lightweight Golf Garments
    ENTER to WIN 3 DOZEN

    Titleist ProV1 Golf Balls

    Titleist ProV1 Golf Balls
    By signing up you agree to receive communications from MyGolfSpy and select partners in accordance with our Privacy Policy You may opt out of email messages/withdraw consent at any time.