Titleist CEO, David Maher, Responds to the Distance Insights Report
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Titleist CEO, David Maher, Responds to the Distance Insights Report

Titleist CEO, David Maher, Responds to the Distance Insights Report

In the wake of the USGA and R&A’s latest distance study, it’s no surprise that you won’t find much support for a rollback from golf equipment manufacturers. However, the majority have either been entirely silent or have, so far, chosen words with excruciating caution. For what it’s worth, our colleague and contributor, Rick Young, suggests that may be about to change.

To date, Titleist has been an exception, and while it’s safe to assume it has more on its mind than it has shared publicly, the company has made it clear since the USGA and R&A started sniffing around in earnest that it’s equally opposed to both any sort of equipment rollback and bifurcation.

If you believe both options should be off the table, Titleist is with you.

Given the company’s willingness to speak out against some of the solutions being floated to resolve golf’s distance problem, it shouldn’t come as any particular surprise that, yesterday afternoon, Titleist CEO & President, David Maher, offered up A Perspective on the Distance Insight Report. It’s well worth the two minutes it will take you to read it.

Spoiler alert: Titleist’s leadership isn’t particularly interested in rolling back much of anything. The USGA equipment rules are stifling as it is. They leave minimal opportunity for innovation (that’s especially true with the golf ball). It should go without saying that the idea that we need to rewind technology, whether ball, club, or both, and toss out a decade or few’s worth of advancements and the intellectual property that came with them isn’t likely to garner much support among equipment makers. That part should be obvious enough.

Much of Maher’s thinking mirrors my own, perhaps no more than in this passage:

“We believe the conclusions drawn in this Report undervalue the skill and athleticism of the game’s very best players and focus far too much on the top of the men’s professional game and project this on golf and golfers as a whole.”

Bottom line, the USGA and R&A are far too focused on the professional game (and the implications it has on course design and architecture), and not focusing nearly enough attention on the other 99.99% of golfers. For most of us, our biggest competitive aspiration is to win the 2nd flight of our Club Championship.

You Can’t Rollback the Athlete

Implicit in the broader statement is that evolution is inherent to nearly every sport. Athletes are becoming bigger, faster, and stronger. At a minimum, new skills emerge, while the values of others are sometimes diminished. This is nothing less than the natural order of things.

As if the contribution of fitness wasn’t obvious enough, in its 2019 presentation on Tradition and Technology in golf, Titleist offered up this slide.

PGA Fitness Van Visits

Golf fitness is a significant factor in distance gains. Should the equipment devolve because of it? Would the governing bodies of other sports make similar arguments?

Is anyone suggesting that every basketball hoop in the world should be raised two feet? Should the weight of the balls be increased because of the pro game has evolved from ball control and mid-range jumpers to a sport that’s played almost exclusively above the rim and beyond the arc?

The guys playing in 40-and-over rec leagues aren’t dunking and we don’t have Steph Curry’s range. We’re also not obsoleting our golf courses.

Even though I just made one, I’m not a fan of cross-sport analogies. Golf is different, and I’ll concede as much. The obvious response to the argument I just made is that that, unlike golf, basketball equipment isn’t significantly different than it’s always been.

True story.

What’s changed in basketball is the athletes. What’s changed in golf in the decade-plus since the USGA implemented its last distance limiting regulation, is also the athlete.

The USGA knows this, and yet the consistent response is to look at the equipment. It’s the low-hanging fruit. It’s one of the very few pieces of a complex equation that it can directly control.

Maher’s position is that the current equipment regulations are working and that the USGA is overstating the correlation between increased distance and the diminished skill necessary to succeed at the professional level.

Golf equipment (clubs and balls) has historically been highly regulated, and these regulations have been effective in setting upper limits on equipment performance and ensuring that the best golfers separate themselves with their talent, skill, and training while using equipment best suited to their games. The ability to consistently achieve distance with accuracy, and convert this into low scores, remains a special and elusive skill. In fact, the Report itself shows that hitting distance on the PGA Tour decreased in 6 of the past 13 years, including 2019. We believe this helps to affirm the effectiveness of regulatory efforts, particularly those adopted since the early 2000s, which continue to achieve their desired intent of setting boundaries around future distance increases while also rewarding skill and encouraging innovation.

He’s not wrong. The USGA’s distance charts are full of peaks and valleys, and from one year to the next, distance is down nearly as often as it’s up. It’s also true that the trendlines show gains, but there’s been no attempt to normalize the data. What’s not accounted for in the USGA’s charts is the impact of both the venue and the field have in average distance from event to event and year to year. Soft conditions vs. dry conditions, different golfers on the course. It’s apples and oranges at best.

What’s the Solution?

My only issue – and I suppose it’s a small one – with Maher’s statement is that it stops short of offering a position on a possible solution (assuming he believes there’s actually a problem).

Let’s not rollback the gear. That much is clear.

Bifurcation is off the table as well. Titleist’s position on that has been evident since former CEO Wally Uihlein argued The Case for Unification.

It’s not unreasonable to take a wait and see approach and read the tea leaves as the fall, but I do wonder; if pushed to make a specific recommendation, where might Titleist and Maher land?

Evolution is natural. Do nothing. – That’s certainly a possibility. Charts provided in its Traditions and Technology Report suggest that longer courses don’t have a significant impact on scoring.

major championship scoring vs. course length

Grow the Grass?

Could Titleist be a proponent of our preferred solution – Grow the Grass? I understand that architectural purists hate the idea every bit as much as I loathe the idea of rolling back the equipment, but that same Tradition and Technology report provides some compelling evidence for rolling back the lawnmower.

fairway length vs. distance

I’m not suggesting we rollback greens to 6.5. I’m not opposed to firm and fast greens, but given that fairway height has decreased by more than a half an inch, perhaps it’s reasonable to shift the conversation a bit more towards the amount of distance attributable to excessive roll.

At a minimum, if one of the primary concerns with increased distance is that it will eventually obsolete classic venues, shouldn’t the scope of any solution including maintaining fairway length somewhat closer to what the architect was working with at the time?

Waiting for the Chips to Fall

For now, it’s more of the same. It’s reasonable to expect the equipment manufacturers will weigh in and potentially speak out with a bit more zeal against a rollback. There’s real money on the line for them – and frankly, as far as the recreational game is concerned, it’s a stupid idea.

Proposals for solutions will have to wait as companies decide how much of their data – some of which will almost certainly directly contradict the USGA’s findings – to share. For now, the approach is one of unity – working together because we’re all in this together. If the USGA pushes closer to a doomsday scenario for manufactures – a rollback of the ball, the clubs, or both, the tone for the manufactures and the spirit of cooperation may shift dramatically.

One thing is for sure; we’re a long way from putting this one to bed.

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Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony is the Editor of MyGolfSpy where his job is to bring fresh and innovative content to the site. In addition to his editorial responsibilities, he was instrumental in developing MyGolfSpy's data-driven testing methodologies and continues to sift through our data to find the insights that can help improve your game. Tony believes that golfers deserve to know what's real and what's not, and that means MyGolfSpy's equipment coverage must extend beyond the so-called facts as dictated by the same companies that created them. Most of all Tony believes in performance over hype and #PowerToThePlayer.

Tony Covey

Tony Covey

Tony Covey





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      Bob

      4 years ago

      Place the name of the location, city or town, that your golf balls are produced.

      Reply

      Dave Tutelman

      4 years ago

      Two points:

      (1) I agree that we should not change the equipment rules to solve “the distance problem”. I don’t even think it is a problem. As Titleist points out, it only applies to a tiny fraction of golfers. Growing the grass is a better solution — but I don’t think even that is necessary. Just let the tour pros bomb away and show the rest of us how the game CAN be played. I have a feeling the tour is quite happy with the “oooh”s and “ahhh”s from the fans. Unlike the USGA, the tour won’t be very upset if there are more sub-60 rounds posted. That is what gets us to watch those amazing guys.

      (2) I disagree with Titleist’s intent when they complain about stifling innovation. I don’t think the game needs innovation of the sort that sells one brand’s clubs in competition with another brand. Of course, the companies spending millions advertising their golf clubs DO NOT WANT the industry to become commoditized. But that is part of what must be done to save and grow the game, IMHO. Innovation, in the sense the manufacturers intend, has made equipment more expensive. I think another sports analogy is called for here — even if Tony Covey objects. (Hey, Tony, you used the basketball analogy right before you objected. BTW, I agreed completely with your basketball analogy.) I used to compete
      in racing one-design sailboats. When I compare the cost of racing one-design with the costs of development or even handicap classes — at least if you are racing to win — people can afford one-design, but few can afford development or handicap boats. The difference is that one-design seriously limits innovation that would make the boat faster. The innovations from development classes that can be used in one-design make the boat stronger, or last longer, or cost less to manufacture. Comparable innovations in golf would be steel shafts replacing hickory, or stainless clubheads (even titanium, if we don’t include spring faces), or composite rubber grips. Those are the sort of innovations I’d like to see golf equipment manufacturers offer — not innovations that make the ball go farther.

      Reply

      Rappers

      4 years ago

      There is a general consensus amongst golfers that pro golfers are hitting the golf ball too far. Many top quality courses which were used for tournaments are now too short to host a pro competition – which is a real shame. Furthermore, watching pro golfers hit a drive and a wedge to a long par four is not really entertaining either. Notwithstanding that, despite modest gains in recent years there is still the possibility in a generation or so that drives of 350yds plus will be the norm. So, do the authorities take action now, or wait another 20-30 years until the problem is even greater?

      There is either a distance problem or there is not. Assuming the former, the solution is quite simple. By altering the dimple pattern on the ball it should be possible to reduce the distance the ball travels and possibly how much it deviates through the air. This solution would cost nothing and would still allow golf club manufacturers to invest in R&D to get the best out of their equipment. After all, that’s what it’s really all about.

      The only real question left is whether a ‘tournament’ ball should be produced by manufacturers for elite golfers, or everyone plays with the same ball? I think club golfers would be loathe to give up precious distance. It’s not them that are hitting 300yds plus and reducing holes to a drive and a wedge.

      Reply

      Kip

      4 years ago

      One very simple solution that every course can do. End the fairway at a yardage that gives the players an approach of 80 yds or more, And tighten the green side areas to penalize missed greens. This will bring in strategies to keep the ball in play and make the power players lay up or risk the penalties of narly lies inside the 80 yard range. When I say end the fairway, I mean bring in tall fescue, sand, water, drainage areas, maybe some flower beds, whatever they can to make it undesirable to run the ball up.

      Reply

      L

      4 years ago

      .did I miss something where scores/scoring average has skyrocketed scores higher and higher under par? Are they suddenly shorting 30-35 under or more to win? I watch every weekend, the winners have had about 15 under and 2 weeks ago the winner had 9 under …if 9 under after 72 holes is amazing and demands more difficulty, then I guess I’m a pretty good golfer. I don’t play pro courses, but I can golf 2 under in a round like they’ve been doing in order to win.
      You can hit it 600 yards, but you still gotta hit it in the fairway or close. Playing army golf like quite a few have been doing lately.

      Justin Thomas is one of the longest hitting pros, he had the lead on Sunday and completely choked it away, like Rory has done lately…you still gotta play great, even if you hit it 240 yards with a 7 iron like they did this weekend in Mexico. But again, the winning score was 16 under after 72 holes, nothing to brag about IMO

      Reply

      Nick

      4 years ago

      I like the idea of growing the grass. Also, maybe consider not raking bunkers so then they are true hazards. Then just change the rule about digging one’s feet into the bunker to avoid really big ruts. That would certainly make players think twice about trying to hit it into bunkers where they can easily splash the ball into the green with spin. It’d be interesting to see.

      Reply

      Mat

      4 years ago

      I agree with many… grow the grass!

      If the USGA thinks there’s a huge problem, set a compression limit on balls, like nothing over 100, or 90, or whatever. But whatever happens, you cannot bifurcate equipment. Where would the line be drawn? How could you tell? You couldn’t.

      If you must, if it’s such a problem, require manufacturers of balls to meet a lower compression spec, and make it mandatory for any competitive round anywhere.

      And grow the fxxking grass.

      Reply

      10shot

      4 years ago

      I’ve read the comments and not sure I agree with some.
      As I sit here watching the GC the 3 Amigo commentators just gave new driving stats on Bryson. Guess what, he hit the gym and now if #5 in Stokes gained by LONGER drives.
      So, why would the USGA n RA want to stifle that type of commitment?
      Why, IMO to many good Ole boy courses are out of real estate and don’t like it their courses are looking like child’s play. ( For the Pros that is)
      The Mexico course + altitude goingneed to add 1000 yards, their driving most par4
      One more, if this distance is such a game changer why haven’t all the course records dropper and stats been crushed, why, pros still golf -3 under average. This is just a BS story with someone waiting to strike.
      Thanks and all this is IMO⛳??✌️

      Reply

      TimoTe

      4 years ago

      If the players are stronger and have better technique then leaders will still be leaders. If the ball or equipment is changed then the distance would just be a little less.

      This article missed the point of driver head sizes going from 195cc to 460cc, from wood to steel to titanium to carbon fiber head construction, and from steel shafts to graphite shafts. There is no penalty from swinging at the limits of your ability when the sweet spot size kept getting bigger, the speed increasing off the face, and the ball spinning less. Not to mention, driver lofts of persimmon woods was closer to 14 degrees and many players today are 5 or more degrees stronger – would that get the ball farther?

      Reply

      Luke Matekaitis

      4 years ago

      Exactly my though…did I miss something where scores/scoring average has skyrocketed scores higher and higher under par? Are they suddenly shorting 30 under or or to win? I watch every weekend, the winners have had about 15 under and 2 weeks ago the winner had 9 under I believe …if 9 under after 72 holes is amazing and demands more difficulty, then I guess I’m a pretty good golfer.
      You can hit it 600 yards, but you still gotta hit it in the fairway or close. Playing army golf like quite a few have been doing, doesn’t cancel out long distance .

      Reply

      Dave Tutelman

      4 years ago

      Too late! Pandora’s box has been opened. Any action the USGA takes to limit distance will be DE FACTO BIFURCATION. Face it, there are tens of millions, maybe hundreds of millions of drivers in the hands of golfers that would be rendered non-conforming. Does anybody really believe the 99% of non-elite golfers are going to throw them away and buy new, distance-limited drivers? Ain’t gonna happen.

      And it gets better. (Or worse, depending on your point of view.) There will be manufacturers that will cater to the trend. My own guess is that all the manufacturers will before long. Consequences:

      (1) Conforming clubs will be a small percentage of the market. Tooling, manufacturing, stocking, and marketing them for a small market implies they will be expensive. That will further discourage the non-elite golfers and accelerate the trend.

      (2) Without rules like a .83 COR, the manufacturers of non-conforming equipment will be free to build stuff that would not even be legal today. And they will! Even greater distance will be happening for people who don’t care about conforming equipment — which will be most golfers.

      (3) A consequence of #2 is that snake-oil claims from manufacturers — even more so than today — will be around. And more than today they will be true, because there is no rule limiting distance, or at least none that is being followed.

      (4) Finally, and perhaps most important, the USGA will be basically ignored by all except the few who play elite tournaments. IGNORED! Not just for equipment rules, but for everything. The USGA will no longer be the ruling body for golf at large, just for elite competition. If that. If we’re lucky.

      Reply

      TimoTe

      4 years ago

      1. The cost of small run clubs doesn’t matter because we are only talking about at the PGA tour level. Amateurs, LPGA and local clubs can still use the latest and greatest because, frankly, we all benefit from it.

      2. The LPGA and Amateur level will still follow the current regs. Actually, the simplest solution is a ball that floats for Male PGA level instead of rolling back equipment. Currentlv the ball is a minimum of just under 41ccs. The weight is no more than 45.93 grams. If the weight is the same, and the volume of the ball is more than 45.93ccs then the ball would float. This would simply increase the effect of drag on the ball and.reduce PGA tour distances. If this ball change becomes universal then losing balls in a water hazard would be a thing of the past because it would be easy to retrieve them.

      The PGA tour is money driven so they have No once incentive to limit anything, so an outside governing body is necessary to keep structure. I want to see the best golfer be tested on tour. Course layout becomes irrelevant at the distances they hit. Oversized drivers, thin faces irons, and a high performance ball all benefit the player to make the game hard to differentiate.

      Reply

      Dave Tutelman

      4 years ago

      Timote, I’m not sure we are at odds here. You are saying, “Bifurcation, but only reduce distance for the PGA Tour, not LPGA nor amateurs.” (I will assume you are lumping with the PGA Tour the men’s other men’s tours like Korn-Ferry, and men’s elite amateur events likd state championships and Div 1 college.) I’m saying, “If you do a blanket distance reduction for everybody, bifurcation will happen anyway, just without rules for most golfers.”

      Our biggest difference of opinion is whether it matters that the PGA Tour is distance-reduced. You say “do it”, and I say “leave it alone”. We can agree to disagree on that point.

      I agree that the best way to do the distance reduction (if it is done — which I think should not happen) is with the ball. I agree that making the ball bigger with no increase in weight will accomplish that. (See my article at https://tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/ballWeight.php) I don’t know about the ease and practicality of manufacturing a larger ball, nor the benefit of the ball”s floating, but don’t believe either of those is a big issue.

      TimoTe

      4 years ago

      Dave Tutelman: kudos to all the engineering expertise you bring to the table. As I looked at your page on ball weight, showing graphs of swing speeds and different simulated weights, you predict a 40g ball to drop distance by about 14yds for a 120mph club speed.

      I agree that seems almost negligible at the current size of the golf ball. Increasing the size increases drag and wind effect to have a more substantial effect.

      Respect to you sir.

      Berniez40

      4 years ago

      I’m all for letting the grass do the work. How many of us play on shaggy courses that no pro would ever touch. Yes let them have manicured greens and fairways—-that’s still better than most of us get. Make the first cut an inch…second cut at least two, and if you go off…time to gouge that puppy out of there.
      They also have the benfetit of smooth as silk bunkers. I remember just a few years back when they to played at Jack’s Course for the Memorial. The rakes hade more distance between the teeth left furrows in the bunkers. Seriously—why not? It’s not just amateurs who play under such conditions—
      The Pros used to as well. That’s why Gary Player’s book, “From Any Lie” was such a big seller. That was also the reason Seve Ballesteros was considered a magician. Anyone can blast it out of he sand or so-called rough from a pristine lie………If you’re such a bloody pro—-PROVE IT!

      Reply

      Mezz

      4 years ago

      As far as the ball is concerned.,I think Lee Trevino summed it up best.”If we had (the new ) ball in my day,the best of us would have hit it 300 yards and Jack Nicklaus would have hit it 360″. As for the equipment….consider this. In 1982 Fred Couples was 22yrs.old.He averaged 268.7 yrds.in driving distance. In 2009 he was 49yrs. old with a decade of serious back problems.He averaged 297.5 yards in driving distance.His former World Cup partner, Davis Love lll,led the PGA in 1986 at age 22,averaging 285.Two decades later,he gained 13yrds. And at 52 was one of eight golfers who had a 400-plus drive.

      Reply

      Richard Bourbeau

      4 years ago

      I am 71 years old, just getting back into the game after 30 some years, and I am looking for as much length as I can get. I am watching the professional tournaments, and with all these bombers out there, how many playing in the tournament, finish in negative numbers. The winner could finish 20 under, but what is the average +/- for that tournament. Not every pro is scoring well. I don’t think there is much of a problem, if you want to make a change, then Grow the Grass. Look what is happening at the WGC in Mexico, even with drives close to 400 yards, they are having trouble gauging distances and clubbing, even with a caddie. They should be thinking about the amateur golfer, they are the ones to grow the game.

      Reply

      Hector

      4 years ago

      So,… what has been the effect of ball and club technology advances over the past 40 years on the average golfer, as measured by their average handicaps? I don’t know the answer, but that should be factored into the discussion. Why can’t we just accept that the elite pros and amateurs are more skilled than those in the past. They have better technology available to assist them, but so what? What is so sacred about par? I don’t shoot par Do you? That the pros are able to shoot under par doesn’t change the challenge for me. The most intelligent comment I have heard so far re: the ball is from Dean Snell. He noted there are at least five major factors that influence scoring, on the tours, and at most the ball may account for 20% of the advancement in pro’s scores in recent years – probably more like 5 or 10%. Limiting the technology of the ball won’t effect the other factors. In fact, they may become the source of compensatory changes that the pros will be the best at invoking in their games. I’m all for changing the course conditions for the pros, especially tightening the fairways and growing out the grass. But leave the natural progression in technology alone for the most part, and don’t bifurcate the game.

      Reply

      Marty

      4 years ago

      Bifurcation simply isn’t commercially viable for so many obvious reasons that it is boring to list them all out – much less have to read them all.

      The R&A and the USGA have already placed their technical limitations on the clubs and the ball and now they just need to live with it.

      Their report was interesting but what is more interesting is their mind set that these relatively recent increases in player distance has somehow rendered so many of their once-favored golf courses obsolete.

      I personally would like to see just one US Open played on some well-designed muni that the USGA would consider as being brutally neglected. . . You know, a golf course where the depth of the sand in the bunkers varies from two feet deep to non existent and the chance of getting a perfect lie out in the fairway is far from being guaranteed – the kind of course that the majority of golfers throughout the world plays on each and every week.

      Reply

      TimoTe

      4 years ago

      Look how the uptick in driver distance coincides directly with the introduction of metal woods and scooping rapidly with the increase in driver head size. I looked up the cc of a persimmon wood which was about 195cc. In the early 90s is when the metal woods started being bigger. Then they started using titanium which is lighter and stronger. By 2002 there was a 500cc driver. The USGA put a stop to the ever growing wood size at 460cc in 2004. The ball is just under 41cc. The customary ratio for a long time was about 5:1. Now it is over 10:1. The weight ratio of wood and titanium heads remain about the same with the greater significant change being the lighter shafts in newer clubs allowing for longer lengths to the USGA limit. The change in materials, in our lifetime, has drastically changed the ability to increase the size of the sweet spot on drivers. I’m all for reducing the size of the drivers for tour players back to 250cc, reduce spring like faces by requiring thicker faces on all clubs, smaller heads on irons, thinner soles, single metal construction of irons, and watch the more accurate player rise above the rest.

      Reply

      Hector

      4 years ago

      Timote – with all due respect to your opinion, I think you should ponder for a moment on who would be most impacted by reducing the volume of the driver head significantly – the PGA European Tou and LPGA pros or the amateur golfer like you and me. Henrik Stenson routinely hits that 3 metal of his around 300 yards. He and most on the tours simply hit that small sweet spot on the club that we amateurs find once in a while. WE WOULD BE THE ONES HURT BY REDUCING THE FOREGIVENESS OF THE LARGER DRIVER! Not the pros..

      Reply

      TimoTe

      4 years ago

      That is why I am only talking about male PGA tour players and not the amateur or LPGA. Additionally, I agree that they can hit the sweet spot 100 times better than most amateurs. However, I believe there will be some tour players that will slow down their swing speed if the sweet spot is a lot smaller in order to error on the side of accuracy.

      LABillyboy

      4 years ago

      Want to roll back distance? Get old. Technology advances kept my distance where I was in my 20’s when I was a zero or better hcp. Now that I’ve hit 60 I am seeing my distance creep away… You all have that to look forward to.

      For the pros? I agree with using the lawnmower to negate distance as an advantage. Not only should the grass be longer in the fairway, but simply go out to 300 yds. and stop cutting… Let those 340 yard bombs land in 12 inches of thick grass. Par 4’s on tour are as long as 528 yards.. That’s still only 228 to the green. I couldn’t find the tour average distance for par 4’s but a maximum 300 yard fairway should work on a lot of tracks.

      While they are at it, narrow them as well. Make it a hack out if you are off the short grass.

      Let’s see how the pros deal with that… accuracy will replace distance.

      Reply

      Ken

      4 years ago

      Do 2 things. Reduce the size of the driver head so that you can’t hit it all over the face the the same results, and change the golf ball so that it doesn’t go straight not matter what the quality of strike. I guarantee you, all of these guys would not be swinging out of their shoes or be able to use their 132 mph club head speed if they were hitting a ball that curved like the older balata ball.

      It have more respect for the players from the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s more than ever. Why do you think those guys didn’t “go after” every tee shot with all they had?

      Reply

      David Johnson

      4 years ago

      Two comments.

      1. Might be worth speaking with GCSAA about this topic. They might have something to say.

      2. Another possible solution. Ban pros from using driver on par 4’s. Seems like an easy fix in my opinion.

      Reply

      Ron

      4 years ago

      Simple solution to the distance problem. Do what baseball did, make them go back to Wood Drivers and 3 woods. Would be fun to see what the manufacturers would come up with.

      Reply

      Tom R

      4 years ago

      With athletes fitter than ever and the grass being shorter, it is clear these are factors that should be taken into consideration. The question I would have is less about the pros but for the rest of us, has the average score really changed that much? I would venture to guess the answer is a big fat no.

      Reply

      L

      4 years ago

      Scoring average significantly changed? Not that I’ve seen, and I watch every week.

      Justin Thomas is one of the longest hitting pros, he had the lead on Sunday and completely choked it away, like Rory has done lately(tho he’s still my favorite my far) and Mickelson did a couple weeks ago and Tiger did a few weeks before….you still gotta play great, even if you hit it 240 yards with a 7 iron like they did this weekend in Mexico. But again, the winning score was 16 under after 72 holes, nothing to brag about IMO
      Bryson has a chance to tie on 18 after having the lead most of the weekend, and he hits a 15 feet putt about 7 feet..again, you still gotta execute shots no matter how far you can hit the ball

      Reply

      Hack62tpi

      4 years ago

      The USGA and R&A are just out of touch. A simple thing as grow the grass will change everything for the pros. Most municipal golfers play on greens that stimp slower than the fairways on tour. My typical drives don’t get a fraction of the roll the pros get. Pro golf is also entertainment, no one wants to see the most talented golfers held in check. If the goal is to kill the game get going in this direction. Starting to have second thoughts of remaining a USGA member.

      Reply

      John kwiatkowski

      4 years ago

      There are guys on tour that are 5’6, 140 lbs. soaking wet that hit 325 yard drives. There are beer belly guys hitting 325 yard drives. It’s the equipment and course design that’s responsible. The big boom came with the solid core ball. The manufacturers only concern is making money. When’s the last time you have seen a major manufacturer advertise irons that for pinpoint control and workability? They know that distance sells. Are you entertained as a golf viewer with a 340 yard drive in the rough followed by a gouged out wedge onto the green? I’m not. I can move up to the forward tees and swing like a wild man and blast balls into the rough and hack out wedges. That’s not the game. Courses are cutting down trees, creating pastures and calling them links. Golf is a game of power, control, finesse, hand eye coordination and strategy. That’s what makes it a great game.

      Reply

      Tony Covey

      4 years ago

      I think it’s important in any debate to avoid gratuitously inaccurate statements.

      The current leader in driving distance on the PGA Tour averages 320.5 yards.

      He’s also 6-foot tall and weighs 175 lbs.

      Blaise Hax

      4 years ago

      The only people that golf courses are becoming obsolete for, are the elite .5% of golfers. To that I say, who cares? The course setup for tour events is so entirely different from what the rest of us play, a “distance report” is ineffective. For the average golfer, they have no issues playing courses that are shorter, because it makes the game more fun. I love the idea of growing the grass in the fairway and the rough on tour. How about we do a study on differences in the golf course setup from 1990 to 2020? There’s your distance report.

      Reply

      Rob Froelich

      4 years ago

      Totally agree with Hax. I’m 69 and still drive it about 260 – 270 and play from the white tees normally. I play some good courses and none of them have the kind of fairways that the pros play on. My course’s fairways are at least 1/4″ longer. Think of the rolls I could get if I was playing on the pro’s fairways..

      Reply

      Neil Policow

      4 years ago

      Why not focus on the course set up for PGA level events? US Open set ups with heavy rough and narrow fairways would reward perfect accuracy and penalize the “long and wrong” approach. Wayward shots would penalize the pros and force them to recover to the fairway with a wedge. Placing a premium on accuracy rather than length would allow the shorter hitters to better compete.

      Reply

      Ned

      4 years ago

      Having worked in the business 35 plus years I have seen equipment improve. However, the ball and equipment rules have not changed that much. Manufacturers have made better tools for all of us. Everything has improved even the courses we all play. Rough is not as rough as it was 20 years ago and the ball sits on top of fairway grass.
      As for as the PGA player’s equipment. Yes, they do play with different equipment because each ball, club head , shaft , grip is fitted to meet their swing and idiocycracies..
      The PGA player is bigger and their workouts are tailored for improvement for their swing.
      My vote is for the USGA and R&A to be more concerned about the everyday golfer. The governing bodies
      need to grow the game not stifle it.
      One last comment for the governing bodies and the PGA Tour in limiting distance. Set a limit of 5’10” and 175 lbs. plus,
      No player can bench press more than 200 lbs.

      Reply

      Bobarino

      4 years ago

      Follow the money. At least in contemporary times, Golf = Money. Freeze any aspect of the buisiness which feeds off the game – let alone roll it back – and money feeding that part of the game will certainly dwindle. Any freeze or rollback will start to atrophy that aspect of the buisiness. For those whose drumbeat is “Grow the Game” that will be bad. Brick and mortar will suffer. Corporate shareholders will suffer. The business model and all the billions of dollars invested in “Golf” with a capital “G” will suffer. There will be entrepreneurs who will see it as a way to capitalize on the change, but there will be a net flow of money out of the game. If any freeze or roll back happens it won’t be soon. The USGA and R&A would give years of notice – which they have been doing – and the monied parties would have ample opportunity to adapt, while buisiness concerns with shallower pockets would likely drop away.

      I think a freeze on tech is coming. I support it. But it’s still probably years down the road.

      Reply

      Mackie

      4 years ago

      This issue is already played out. There are opposite negative effects no matter what is done. If the equipment (clubs and balls) are rolled back. Guess what….i want my money back for buying all the stuff that is in theory, going to become illegal if by chance this solution were to happen. No company is flying with that senario. Second, what about the kid who plays high school then college golf with the latest and greatest, wants to go pro and then basically gets handed a set of persimmon performing clubs and a balata ball. Not sure if thats a good incentive for sticking with and growing the game amongst the youth. Im totally on team ‘grow the grass’! Pros are basically playing off of carpet right now. And the rough is like 70’s shag carpet. Lets get it closer to the local muni heights and see what happens. The only drawback i see there is it might kill the spikeless shoe craze. You will need spikes in taller grass or risk busting your azz walking down hills. Done that already. Damn eccos!!

      Reply

      Abdus Saabur

      4 years ago

      The RNA and PGA of America they both are having a get off my grass moment.
      The horse has already left the barn ,the ball companies are not going to go along with rolling the ball back ,the money that they are making ,along with the players thru endorsements and .The PGA tour that is part of marketing golf balls to the buying public .The argument to fix the game by rolling the ball back is a topic that is just fodder for talking heads ,message boards like this one and older players like Jack and Gary who want to have a say about what the game needs to do about what ever the popular topic of the day may be at the moment, but the rolling back of the golf ball will not happen, the money being made is simply some thing that the makers of golf balls are not going to put themselves in a position to make less of because when you are in business making a profit is the bottom line.

      Reply

      John Brown

      4 years ago

      Personally, I’m for rethinking the grass. I’ve been golfing 5 decades. The most difficult part of my game is hitting off these “SHAVED” fairways. VERY LITTLE room for error. You either hit it perfect or you’re thinning or skulling it or you hit it fat. I don’t have 80 hours a week to perfect my swing to NIP it off this real short grass firways. Pros are pros and more power to them. The average player are the ones supporting our local golf courses and as length is important, PLAYABILITY is even more important.

      Reply

      JasonA

      4 years ago

      I think statistics back this point up. When Pro’s hit it in to the rough the shotlink data shows even the bombers are reaching 270-280 yards off the tee.

      Personally I play my golf in Ireland. Most time there is very little roll out, but last year we had a drought (officially it’s 29 days without rain in this part of the world!! ) And despite my very average ball speeds around 150 MPH I suddenly was hitting 280 yards total drives. Roll-out was crazy. Our index 2 par 4 on a 7000 yard tees was suddenly driver and a gap wedge, rather than long iron in to the green.

      Reply

      Hayden

      4 years ago

      It’s impossible for the equipment manufacturers to agree the game is now too long – after all, they’ve been selling us on how much longer we will be year after year if we bought their new version.
      But the stats don’t seem to support that we’re all hitting the ball too far – just the tour pros.
      I think growing the grass longer would just help the bloke that hits it the furthest carry distance, and the short hitters are out of the game.
      Instead, have shorter holes. The stats show that on par 3’s, the average score is over par, but par 5’s the average is under par. If “par” is what they want players to hit to, have more par 3’s, less par 5’s.
      Us duffers can play 18 as par 72, pros play as par 68 – whats the problem?

      Reply

      chris

      4 years ago

      seems to be a lot of agreement on growing the grass. as for the comment about par 3’s, 5’s, and length of the holes, many course already offer a “composite” tee box that essentially does in part what Hayden and others suggest. and if the course doesn’t have it predetermined just play the holes from a tee that fits your name. If the course doesn’t offer composite tees then yes, you can’t post a handicap score, but I’ll bet that a large majority of golfers done’t even keep a handicap anyway.

      Reply

      Bandit Baker

      4 years ago

      I’m with you Guys, “Rollback the Fxxking GRASS”!!!!!!!!!

      Reply

      Pascal R.

      4 years ago

      I feel like i am missing something. I don’t get why we are discussing this at all. Wha is the issue? That the winning score is 15 under and more? Why should I care. The current world record for the 100m man sprint is 9.58s. Do I every think I need to get close to this number, no!
      Back to golf. Does playing a PGA venue with my buddies where the winning score was 20 under, somehow deminish the fun I will have, how I play or my life in general, Fxxxk no. So the pros can play 30, 40 under, for me that makes no difference.
      If for some reason “action needs to be taken” I am in the camp “grow the grass”. You could even implement semi ruff at certain distances on the fairway, to force players to hit shorter clubs. But then again, the sky will not fall, my life will not go down the drain just because avg. driving distance is 350 yards in a few years.

      Reply

      DJA

      4 years ago

      Your comparison of golf and track is interesting.

      If I may, rolling back golf equipment to akin rolling back running shoes because track athletes are obsoleting running tracks around the world due to improved equipment and physical conditioning,

      Imagine the governing bodies of track and field making not only track athletes go back to wearing shoes made in the 1980s that so they don’t run as fast, but the entire population of amateur runners must wear the 1980 shoes as well.

      Reply

      Greg

      4 years ago

      The game is dead if you supress egos. New well designed equipment gives us what we want. We want balls that go forever we want 37 deg wedges that go as far as 7 irons we want 21 deg 6 irons that go like 3 iron distances. For me throw out the driver and 3 woods .we want loft and we want distance and we want to stop ithe ball on a dime. We want it all. Anything less than 15 loft is useless . So lets just limit loft minimum loft is 14 degrees .
      Balls will,have to be redesigned . Run down a bone dry fairways wont be a problem unless you have skill to lower flight.
      The only thing they need to do is limit the length and weight of clubs.
      Problem solved lets play..

      Reply

      TimoTe

      4 years ago

      Limiting loft will never work. The players can manipulate loft anyway they want.

      When you say limiting weight: making the weight have to be a certain minimum weight would favor the strong players. Heavier head weights usually result in shorter shafts to make the club manageable.

      Instead of only focussing on head weight, the size could be limited, and the requirement of a firm face that has NO trampoline effect will highlight the precise player more than the power hitter. Jack Nicklaus was both with small, heavy headed clubs. Few players could swing that fast with accuracy, so they would swing less hard. The size of the sweet spot on drivers and irons have grown to allow players to miss extremely well.

      Reply

      Dave Tutelman

      4 years ago

      Greg says, “The only thing they need to do is limit the length and weight of clubs.”

      Length is already limited.

      The optimum clubhead weight for distance has been known for over 50 years; it is just about 200g. You won’t find many driver heads outside 10 grams of this number. And all the other clubheads are heavier. (I’m always amazed how many people believe otherwise.) So limiting the weight of clubheads is not a solution. And, if you meant a lower limit on clubhead weight, that would give stronger golfers even more of an advantage than they have now.

      Reply

      Chris

      4 years ago

      I can’t help but wonder if there isn’t a way to engineer the ball so that the performance dives when the ball is over compressed. In this scenario swing speeds that exceed a number like 118MPH would compress the ball enough that the flight/trajectory becomes suboptimal. This would keep the power hitters from bombing and gouging, and put some emphasis back on shotmaking with the rest of the clubs. Frankly I’m tired of watching bomb and gouge and players bailing out to perfectly manicured hazards that are actually easy for them (sand). I’d like to see strategic choices, and great shotmaking return to the game. Anyone recall when Harvey Penick called for wavy bunkers because they stopped being hazards and became bail out zones?

      Reply

      CB

      4 years ago

      Yes to making the bunkers more challenging. Years ago at the Memorial I recall them having special rakes that left smaller furrows in the bunkers and it indeed made them much more challenging. Players of course didn’t like it though and the concept never stuck…..if I’m remembering correctly anyway.

      Reply

      Acemkr10

      4 years ago

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      Reply

      Johnathon

      4 years ago

      It is encouraging to see a good number of people against this. I agree with a previous comment that the USGA has forgotten it’s main duty: GROW the game. When Brooks or Rory rip a drive and the kids in the background are standing with gaping mouths…that is growing the game! Professional golf has NEVER been in a better place. However, amateur golf has been healthier in the past. Dialing back equipment will not keep golf courses from closing. The USGA is spending time and money on something that is not a problem while ignoring the elephant in the room – amateur golf could be dying.
      Also, I would not mind seeing some better data on golf course size. I understand that longer courses take up more space but it does not necessarily mean bigger fairways and rough to take care of. For example, you can set a tee box 35 yards back with minimal maintenace and all of a sudden have a hole 35 yards longer without really doing much to it. Now I understand not all courses can or do take this route (Augusta National), but I wonder if course length numbers by themselves accurately reflect whether or not we are using up too much land or not.
      Thanks to everyone for their comments.

      Reply

      Pargolfr

      4 years ago

      Goats! That should cut down on environmental issues. ;)

      Seriously, there is no problem with 99.9% of golfers driving insane distances. Easy enough to turn a par five into a par 4 for competition for the bombers. But even that won’t necessarily change the final outcome. There should not be any bifurcation. No mincing of words with what Titleist said. Course designers and course maintenance need to get more creative and figure out how to tame the bombers, while decreasing the agronomy footprint. Nothing about the equipment or the ball needs to change.

      Reply

      Jrodey

      4 years ago

      Golf companies only care about profits. Titleist only cares about the better players and Pros. Distance is king and players that blast the ball are revered. Shotmakers are an afterthought for ball manufacturers and David Maher is just reading from the script handed to him by Wally Uihlein.

      Reply

      mackdaddy9

      4 years ago

      The majority of golfers are either seniors or soon to be seniors. The average driving distance is well below 250 yards. There is No distance issue for the average golfer unless it is that they are to short!!! The USGA and R&A are looking to punish the 85% because the 15% are strong and able to overpower the designs at times. Just because the top young pros can blast the ball a mile doesn’t mean they should penalize we aging golfers who lose yards every year to age!!!!!!!

      Reply

      Bag Rat

      4 years ago

      Leave the ball and equipment alone.., Listen to the voice of reason (mygolfspy)
      And most amateurs grow the grass. If it’s not broke don’t mess with it. The game is in-good hands.

      Reply

      10shot

      4 years ago

      My 2 cents,
      Some prominent courses are out of real estate…sucks to be them.
      USGA and RA should read up on the fall of NASCAR before shooting ones foot.
      Reduced speed, control design 1/2 filled NASCAR events, revenue down etc. I don’t watch NASCAR anymore why, for the last crash laps.
      Read the damn trackman stats on Pros, they aren’t crushing it 400 yards.
      IMO it’s about the good Ole boys club, Rivera comes to mind out of real estate.
      Just IMO
      THXs

      Reply

      TimoTe

      4 years ago

      On the whole conversation about reducing driving distances of PGA Tour professionals by the USGA and RA I believe is a valid and necessary objective. If you play devil’s advocate for reducing the distance the ball flies and just play along, it seems that a reduction of at least 10% is what is needed. Considering that, in order to do this the simplest, least invasive way for ball manufacturers would be to decrease the weight of the ball because they could use the same molds and just change the compound that goes in the center of the ball to make it lighter. Making the ball larger would also accomplish the same thing, but they would have to create new molds to make the ball about 1/8 to 3/16 of an inch larger in order to accomplish a 10% reduction in driving distance. A combination of the two might be a solution 10 years out to give OEMs time to do this. Additionally, the ball they produce would only be available at the PGA tour level and not in stores. The major OEMs can afford to make a different ball for the PGA tour than the amateur market. I don’t think anybody on our level would want to reduce their distances by 10%, but in all reality it wouldn’t be the end of the world if they did. The argument that the major manufacturers would incur a large cost or have some ill effect to engineer a new ball really isn’t the biggest issue or a large concern. I’m on the fence whether the new ball would be implemented across all levels. If they only made the ball lighter then the litmus test would be just to weigh the ball. It seems to me that many of the tour players are already playing a ball that isn’t available on the amateur level in major retail stores when I see all those white boxes. Eventually, if they went to a larger ball, then just using a simple circle cut out of a piece of metal would be the litmus test to see if that ball qualifies for tour use. If the ball falls through you can’t play it. Also, the director consumer market could continue to make the ball that they do now and ignore the USDA/RA ruling to make a larger and/or lighter ball if they ever do. This could create a real disruption in the ball market because if people like snell and cut continue to make the ball that they’re already making it would effectively go farther than the ball that they would be using on tour.

      Looking at baseball, the use of a wooden bat is heavier than an aluminum bat. Using that analogy in golf, The reality is that the equipment is also lighter than it used to be with persimmon heads, or maple, but they were made of wood. The shafts of the drivers were made of steel. So now, the drivers overall weight is about half of what it used to be. This allows almost anyone on the PGA tour to be able to swing as fast as some of the elite, strong players of the past. Looking at Jack Nicholas as an example, even back in his day he hit some of his drives over 300 yards. That was with old equipment, an old ball, an old driver, and he swung fast. But now, we have people, and equipment, that can crush the ball out to over 320 yards as often in as they want to swing that hard. Rolling back the equipment, I understand would be a huge blow to major OEMs but, reducing head size of the driver, reducing head size of irons, making irons out of solid materials instead of two or three piece construction with thin faces, reducing sole size, and increasing driver head weight, only for tour players, would reduce their accuracy and require the elite to perform at an elite level to reach the distances they used to reach with ease with this equipment that we have today. Following the same vein of rolling back equipment or reducing the size of equipment by putting limits on it would result in this phrase that I would love to hear: I hit it farther than the PGA tour guys. Obviously, that would only be because they use equipment that we use today in the amateur world.

      The LPGA matches the amateur market more accurately, so bifurcation remains relevant. Use the LPGA to continue pushing the amateur equipment boundaries and keep all the same ball and equipment as is. This may even allow women players to complete with the guys on a closer level. Women’s basketball have a shorter 3 point line; women’s softball players are not swinging wooden bats like MLB players. Again, elite players are such a small part of the market that it’s not a big deal if they have different equipment than amateurs. I’m not saying to go back to wood shafts.

      The flip side to reducing distances and limiting equipment is to go completely in the opposite direction. Reduce any limits on equipment, reduce any limits on the ball, and completely ignore the USGA and RA and all their rules to create a new league that just says hit the ball in the hole anyway possible. With the recent talk of an elite golf league, this seems more of a reality. Who cares how far they hit it; who cares how long they have to make the course to beat these guys. The NBA as we know it today was changed by the ABA with the implementation of the three-point line that did not exist in the NBA before the ABA. People today don’t even know that about the history of basketball because it happens so long ago.

      The way the golf industry is now, the only way to beat them, the PGA Tour players, is to speed up the greens, firm up the greens, grow the rough, and wet the fairways. The fairways in PGA Tour golf are usually tightly mown and firm which gives them way more role than they should get. Even narrowing the fairways, and reducing the size of the greens would be great ways to try and beat the PGA tour players with course design. But the one factor that no one can control is mother nature. So trying to firm up the greens is not always going to work. Controlling the equipment, whether it be what they hold in their hand, or the ball they hit, is one sure way to even the field and have the elite really shine.

      Reply

      Chad

      4 years ago

      Exactly! Well said.

      All I know is I hit the ball further today than I did 30 years ago. I had a better swing and was more fit back then. There courses I played then are so much easier to play today because I am able to hit shorter irons into the greens.

      Reply

      clarence

      4 years ago

      my opinion is that outside of distance the pros are not much better than most of us. take away all of the help from caddies scouting all the lies and roll and what you get is a lot of boogies , I mean have you been watching the players putt? i’m not much of a golfer shoot in the high 80’s to low 90’s but I do things to challenge myself all the time, no drivers, different tee boxes. I thought that’s what the game was about. the challenge to ourselves not the equipment. now if you want to offer real advice on how to play better i’m listening. clarence

      Reply

      Kevin

      4 years ago

      No Clarence. No. Take any pro, give them only 6 iron to wedge and putter, and they will destroy you. Yes, they can hit the driver far, but do not marginalize the rest of the game.

      Reply

      Gary

      4 years ago

      There is one thing that might reign in the USGA and the R&A on this matter. That is, the pro tours could simply ignore them. After all, pro events are, for the most part, financially independent of the ruling bodies and anyone could, in principle, make up their own rules and follow those instead. Apart from the US and British Opens, who cares what the “governing” bodies think? Are these two tournaments even viable if the top players in the world don’t turn up?

      If the USGA and R&A go down this route, people might just realize that the ruling bodies have made themselves redundant. In this regard, the various pro tours do not need the ruling bodies. Nor, indeed, do the millions of amateurs around the world. Something similar has happened before in both cricket and darts..

      The pro tours and the manufacturers don’t want bifurcation, and amateurs don’t want to lose distance. If the USGA and R&A try to force this through they might just find out where the power really lies.

      Reply

      Corbin

      4 years ago

      Could you imagine the US Open being played with a different set of equipment than the PGA tour. Seems like comedy to me. Imagine all the bitching the players would make at the USGA. USGA thinks they have more power than they do.

      Reply

      Dave Tutelman

      4 years ago

      Your point about power is well taken. There are already equipment companies who are making — and proudly ADVERTISING — non-conforming, distance-maximizing clubs and balls. If the USGA makes some rule unpopular with the majority of the golfing public, you will see more companies doing this. And you will see more golfers buying the stuff.

      Bottom line, the USGA could completely lose control of golf. IMHO, that would not be a good thing; we NEED an effective governing body. But we don’t need a governing body that loses track of the fact that, first and foremost, protecting the game means protecting the golfing public. Not course owners, and not hidebound traditionalists concerned not about growing the game but making sure it never changes.

      TimoTe

      4 years ago

      on a slightly different subject that I don’t hear people talking about much that it started to become a concern for me. The golf industry, major OEMs who sponsor tour players, use the players as banners for their product. But the product that they play is not the product that is available in stores in the same configuration that the tour players use it. My goal is to require any OEM whose sponsors a PGA Tour player to only allow them to be sponsors if they sell the product that the player is using in the same exact specification to the public. That would mean they would have to publish the players specifications, shaft weights, loft and lie angles, grip size and weight, shaft length, and driver modifications like hot melt. Many times the drivers that the PGA Tour players are using are modified in a way that is not available to the consumer. The big elephant in the room is that they use these poster children as marketing for a product that the consumers cannot buy. This infuriates me and makes me not be able to trust the major OEMs are representing their product correctly, equitably, or honestly. In other words, when you put a major OEM on your hat or your sleeve as a tour player, you are releasing your specs to the public because you are advertising for them. And if they use a special shaft that is only available for $350 to $800 up charge, then that shaft has to be available from the OEM in order for that player to use it on the PGA Tour and have the sponsorship logo want his person while playing on the PGA tour. The PGA Tour is doing the amateur golfer a disservice by allowing or not regulating the sponsorship in the way that it’s currently being done

      Dave Tutelman

      4 years ago

      As things stand, the PGA Tour is obligated to observe the equipment rules set by the USGA rather than make their own. It’s a strange bit of history — and it lies in the hands of one of the manufacturers to release them from the obligation.

      This comes from the settlement of the suit by Ping against the USGA and the PGA Tour at the beginning of the 1990s. The PGA Tour promised Ping they would recognize the primacy of the USGA for equipment rules and not make their own.

      Ping has already signed a waiver on one part of that settlement. (Remember the crazy bit with Mickelson playing ancient Ping Eye-2 irons around 2010? Ping put an end to it by signinf a waiver of the part of the agreement that grandfathered the Ping Eye2, which would otherwise have non-conforming grooves.) If they are among the equipment manufacturers who doesn’t want distance reduction nor bifurcation, they could also waive this. But it remains to be seen if that will happen.

      Reply

      Acemkr10

      4 years ago

      Wouldn’t be easier for the average non tournament golfer to play a non conforming ball and hit it as far as he wants, most disregard the rules anyways

      Reply

      Dave Tutelman

      4 years ago

      The USGA should be concentrating its effort on growing the game, not protecting par from the pros. And growing the game, while it has lots of facets, includes at least two considerations — important considerations — that would be damaged by rolling back equipment.

      (1) Making golf more fun for the millions of duffers, beginners, and wannabees that make up more than 99% of the golf population. Depriving them of distance is no way to accomplish that.

      (2) Keeping or even growing the TV viewership. My own opinion is that most potential fans love to see amazing drives and amazing scores. Leaving both equipment and courses alone can only help, not hurt.

      Unless, of course, your main concern is to protect par.

      Reply

      Doug

      4 years ago

      The tournament professionals don’t put money in the game. They take money from it. You make excellent points. The game should be regulated for the 99% that put the money in.

      Reply

      David

      4 years ago

      It’s not the ball , clubs, equipment , if that was even close , we should
      have bottomed out long time ago. More conditioned , maybe some what ,
      But the Modern golf swing sucks , look at all the injuries, this was not the
      problem years ago. As for distance the best swinger of the golf club was
      longer than anyone today , with steel shafted drivers , balata balls. Problem
      is mostly the courses are too easy, all the roll out is ridiculous. Make the
      course tough, let the grass grow. See how all the pros drop like flies.
      Folks don’t know how the golf swing is to be really learned to be
      injury free. Most all continue to keep reading magazines, of tips, so much junk on youtube.. Nobody sticks to proper body movements. . The golf
      today is a joke for long term. Just watch the Champions Tour fade away,
      Players today will never make it that far. Close the door on the Senior tours.

      Reply

      Thomas

      4 years ago

      Why are Titleist latest SP metals on sale at 20% off???

      Reply

      Ima Fitter

      4 years ago

      Rolling back the ball and possibly the equipment isn’t going to work. The new generation of golfers are athletes, strong and powerful. Wouldn’t it be neat if Tiger could be inserted into a Shell’s Wonderful World of Golf with Nicklaus, Palmer, and Player! Comparing distances, styles of play, and equipment. Making current courses and greens more difficult may be the answer…not to trick them up, but to force the use of every club in the bag. Driver/Wedge/Putter/Birdie…that needs to change.

      Reply

      ChrisK

      4 years ago

      I keep hearing how the guys are bigger and stronger, and I think that contributes, but i’d still like to see a test with 1) persimmon driver w/ a balata ball; 2)persimmon driver w/ a new ProVI; 3) new titanium driver w/ a balata ball; and finally 4) new titanium driver w/ a new ProVI.. And with that test, show a range of guys (slower speed guys, 95-100 mph guys, and 110+ mph guys. Come on mygolfspy, show us a test that truly represents what driver tech has accomplished in the last 30 years!

      Reply

      Jeff Wiggins

      4 years ago

      Tougher course setup for pros would go along way.. But they would cry and maybe less people would watch…Grow that grass..

      Reply

      rob

      4 years ago

      The ball is fine performs well and is durable and goes further (PRO V1) but not insanely further you still have to hit it. The drivers are another thing for the average golfer there are no real demonstrative differences in length that effects the courses they play on its great to get an extra 10-15 off the bat. However where it really changes is at the Pro and elite amateur level and with amateurs that are now generating high club head speeds that can take full advantage of the new driver technology. Personally its boring to see Rory hit driver 8 iron into a par 5. Perhaps its horses for courses changes for the pro and elite amateurs if you look at your games NFL, Baseball, NBL what did they do when the plays became stronger, bigger, taller and they equipment improved?

      Reply

      Gary Lee

      4 years ago

      Agree with grow the grass in both the rough and fairway. This would reduce maintenance costs and make courses more of a challenge for the pros. Just look at the US Open. Long rough and tight fairways always means higher scores across the field. For the amateur golfer keep everything the same. Simple, cost effective so.ution. No bifurcation.

      Reply

      BR

      4 years ago

      Two ball specs. One for pros, one for amateurs. Use to not think this way but if the ruling bodies can’t figure out how to manage agronomy to protect game then what else do you do? Enough business to support both ball types. Grass, trees and sand do wonders for testing a golfer’s skills. …

      Reply

      TX

      4 years ago

      What a great way to prevent players from cutting doglegs and carrying now-obsolete hazards off the tee.

      Reply

      MBU

      4 years ago

      Ok, give them a persimmon and a balata ball and see how far they hit it in comparison to before. Why have longer more expensive courses?
      Why make all the great old courses too short?
      I just saw McIlroy hit drive 8 iron 520yards… So to make it a real par five shall we make it 800yards?

      Reply

      Matt

      4 years ago

      Yep. There was a video from a couple years ago where professional long drivers had to play older wood equipment for a long drive contest. The longest drive these beasts could conjure was just over 325.

      It is the clubs, the ball and the grass. I’m all for a rollback.

      Reply

      Richard

      4 years ago

      BS to the fitness argument, Hand them the old equipment and see how they do….John Daly was the longest for almost 10 years and he Passed BY a gym once on his way to buy beer. Yes some golfers are in good shape, but golf is not a game of physical perfection….Lee Travino, Ben Hogan, Moe Norman even Jack Nicklaus were never featured in “Physical Fitness” magazines…..Titlist wants to sell $50 dollar a dozen golf balls and $600 drivers they are in business to make money period.

      Reply

      Simon ACT

      4 years ago

      It’s fair point, Rory carries his 8i 200yds. The length of the fairway isnt changing that stat.

      Reply

      Luke Ó Cathasaigh

      4 years ago

      “ There’s real money on the line for them – and frankly, as far as the recreational game is concerned, it’s a stupid idea.” I understand this is your opinion but I honestly can’t see how you would come to such a conclusion?

      The game is the exact same game if we all lose some distance. The objective stays the same, get the ball in the hole in the fewest strokes? What’s stupid about that, what’s the issue?
      That’s right, there shouldn’t be any unless your concern is for the manufacturers. Yes they’ll have lost some IP but they’ll still have the benefit of competing to be the best manufacture within the set limits.

      There are only benefits in my opinion, any course that I’ve played that has been built in the last 20 years, has a much larger land footprint than ones far older. Owed mainly to crazy back tees and the distance required between fairways to reduce personal injury. This extra land has a huge environmental and economical impact on the recreational player. To ignore these issues, for ones selfish benefit of a few extra yards is incredibly irresponsible and I can only hope that players can look beyond their own agenda and to that of the wider issues.

      Reply

      Chris Nickel

      4 years ago

      In my opinion, it’s ridiculous to solve a problem that doesn’t exist. Amateur golfers don’t hit the ball too far. That much is clear.

      Furthermore, it’s stupid to penalize 99.9% of golfers based on the purported abilities of .01% of players.

      At this point, I don’t see “wider” issues. I see a small handful of people with concerns. That isn’t to suggest the concerns aren’t valid because it’s coming from a vocal minority, but it’s a minority nonetheless.

      Reply

      pje

      4 years ago

      Should distance be a concern? No.
      Maher is right. Pros have gotten fitter and bigger. So, naturally they hit further. Distance has always been a great separator in the pro game. Nicklaus had other world power and length in his youth and that was 60 years ago.
      One of the appeals of the pro game is watching someone do what is remarkable such as hit the heck out of the ball. One reason why the PGA is much more popular than the LPGA is that many, many golfers can hit the ball just as far as most LPGA pros.
      Other than ego, and misplaced ego at that, i.e., “I hit it as far as the pros”, if you think distance is a problem what is wrong with bifurcation? Make the pros play a shorter ball. Major League baseball plays a wooden bat while everyone else is playing other materials so why can’t the pros just play a shorter ball?
      But bifurcation should not even be considered. This distance debate really is sparked by the elite snobs of golf, read the USGA, worried that somehow the sanctity of par on their private clubs is being destroyed. One of the biggest worriers and proponents of a distance roll back is USGA official Mike Davis. Are we supposed to trust the guy that has a history of mucking up great courses, e.g., Shinnecock fiasco, in the name of par?
      I am 56 years old and I can routinely hit a 7 iron 150 yards and good drive will go about 240 yards. A bad 7 iron goes about 140 yards and a bad drive goes about 210 yards. My home course from the white tees is 6400 yards. A 420-430 yard par 4 is about all I can handle for a GIR. I am not overpowering anything.
      If there is a distance roll back, I am done with golf.
      The USGA should step lightly. Distance sells. If the PGA Tour, in concert with manufacturers, decide to play by new “PGA Tour Rules”, i.e., status quo on distance instead of USGA rules guess whose organization just became irrelevant? The USGA.
      They can keep their US Open and their amateur events with their rules but no one is going to care.
      And if the USGA pursues a roll back, I hope that happens.

      Reply

      Luke Ó Cathasaigh

      4 years ago

      Why would you not move up a tee box at your local course if the rollback happens? Less distance to cover, less time to play. Problem solved.

      Reply

      Rick

      4 years ago

      I’m glad it’s about you

      Reply

      Chris

      4 years ago

      Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought bifurcation means that the pros would play a shorter ball and/or equipment? Meaning, you could still play the same stuff you do now as an am.

      I’m all for rolling back the ball for the pros, and have yet to hear a great argument against it (not that one doesn’t exist). What is the PGA’s product? If we can agree it’s the coverage, then I believe that they could greatly improve that product by showing a greater variety of shots into greens. The best pros (the ones getting most of the coverage) are hitting wedges or short irons into most greens and stopping it on a dime. A ball rollback for the pros would, in theory, give us a greater variety of approach shots from different distances, with an added bonus of more flexibility in course setup.

      Reply

      TR1PTIK

      4 years ago

      I’m definitely a proponent of grow the grass. Quite frankly, course setup has probably changed just as much if not more than equipment and is the one thing that doesn’t seem to be regulated at all beyond the size of the hole. I’ve watched countless times as pros struggle on soft fairways and slow greens because they aren’t used to the lack of distance and roll. Take that away and make them putt more aggressively. When the pros play the same course conditions the rest of us do, then maybe a discussion can be had about rolling equipment back, but I doubt that day will ever come.. Either they grow the grass and see that a rollback isn’t needed or they just ignore the overwhelming majority and shove an easy fix down our throats. That’ why the USGA and R&A want a rollback; it’s the easiest solution for them.

      Reply

      Justin

      4 years ago

      I have said it for the past couple years. You don’t need to worry about equipment because you can dictate the tournament by course setup. If some weeks -25 wins a tourney then so be it!!! I see the bombers out there ripping drives but cant get their wedges inside 15 feet on a regular basis. And lets give credit to the athlete for pouring in the training in the gym to be able to hit the ball a mile. Make bunkers more penal with inconsistent sand. Too many players use them as bailouts and they are supposed to be “hazards” Make the rough more penal the further you go closer to the green. It really isn’t that difficult. You don’t need 8000 yards of courses to challenge these players.

      Reply

      Josh

      4 years ago

      GROW THE GRASS!!!! It’s the obvious solution. Uses less water, makes the course longer, and tests the skill of the golfers to judge the lie. Keep the greens smooth, but make the fairways and rough longer. It can happen right away, too. Seems pretty easy to me.

      Reply

      Gary

      4 years ago

      I agree. Grow the grass. Simplest solution.

      Reply

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