Sub 70 Golf
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Sub 70 Golf

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Sub 70 Golf

How long has Sub 70 owner Jason Hiland been selling golf gear online? Well, if you were alive, you were either doing the Macarena, playing with your new Tickle Me Elmo, watching Season Three of Friends or learning the names of the first 50 Pokemon.

The worldwide web hosted fewer than 100,000 websites in 1996 and Hiland’s value-priced component/clone company Diamond Tour Golf was one of them.

No one—not even 12-year-old Mark Zuckerberg—could have envisioned the bold new world of e-commerce or direct-to-consumer (DTC) golf equipment we have today. And there’s no way college freshman Tom Brady would believe that, someday, with just a few keystrokes, he could order —and pay for—a full set of custom-made golf clubs with his dial-up connection and AOL account.

But here we are in 2020 and DTC is the new business model for the new decade. It’s a model that gives you more choices and better pricing but it’s also a minefield. Most OEMs sell their gear online directly to you but only a handful use DTC as their primary path to market and its unique selling proposition.

Can smaller companies survive the minefield? It’s certainly no easy undertaking as it requires you to buy clubs you’ve never actually seen from a company you may have never heard of. Hiland’s Sub 70 is trying to navigate its way through that minefield to viability.

Mail Order Birdies?

Direct-to-consumer most certainly isn’t a new idea. When I was a lad, we called it mail order. You’d see something in the Sears catalog, Boy’s Life or Popular Mechanics and send away for it. After six to eight weeks of breathless anticipation, it would show up at your door. Today, we’re pissed if we don’t get our Amazon Prime delivery the next day.

The worldwide web has changed the way we live, work and interact with each other. It’s also changing the way we buy things, making companies like Ben Hogan, Sub 70, and others possible.

“More people are using direct-to-consumer brands in the rest of their lives,” says Hiland, “so this isn’t as crazy of a jump as it might have been five years ago.”

There’s plenty of upside to DTC. More choices and better pricing no longer limit you to the handful of OEMs on retailers’ shelves. And since many of these companies are small, you get to deal directly with the owners.

The downside? Well, too many choices can be confusing, compounding the risk of dealing with the unknown. If you don’t like the DTC balls you just bought, you’re out 30 bucks at worst. Golf clubs, however, are bigger ticket items and, therefore, a much bigger risk. Social media, with all its inherent nonsense, has helped lower entry barriers for DTC brands. Every OEM uses social media (some better than others) but for DTC brands, social media is the great equalizer, giving them what amounts to free access to you.

“Without social media, this would be impossible,” says Hiland. “From a customer service standpoint to getting our message out there without having to spend tens of thousands of dollars month? This company could not have existed 10 years ago. There’s no doubt in my mind.”

Hogan stumbled upon the DTC model almost by accident. It used social media and its email list to liquidate inventory after bankruptcy. The response showed DTC to be a viable business model.

Hiland, on the other hand, has been selling online for 25 years with Diamond Tour Golf and for 12 years with Hurricane Golf. The DTC thing wasn’t all that big of a leap but selling a new brand of golf clubs to a consumer base that is, to put it kindly, set in its ways?

Yeah, that’s a leap.

The Credibility Conundrum

New ventures are hard. Building credibility is even harder. It’s totally understandable, and justifiable, to be wary of an unknown DTC brand. Sending your credit card info into cyberspace for a set of clubs you’ve never seen from a company you’ve never heard of might seem downright foolhardy.

“It’s uncharted territory. It’s a new paradigm,” Hiland says. “You’re trying to tell somebody they don’t have to pay price X for this, they can get something just as good for price Y. Here’s why it’s more efficient and here’s why it’s better to have everything custom built.”

The value proposition for Sub 70, Hogan and others is premium equipment at a substantially lower price. Since there’s no middleman, no field sales team, no TV and print ad campaigns, and minimal to non-existent Tour presence, you pocket the difference. Therein lies the DTC conundrum: if the price sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Hiland admits he thought it would be harder to explain the apparent unicorn of low price, high quality and custom-built delivery to customers than it turned out to be.

“From talking to customers every day, I attribute it to two things. First is people are using the direct-to-consumer model online for other stuff so it’s not as crazy a leap for early adopters as it might have been five years ago. And, second, the third-party reviews we’ve had have helped answer some of those questions.”

While certainly not the top-performing brand in MyGolfSpy’s Most Wanted testing last year, Sub 70 performed well enough. If yards-per-dollar is your decision-making matrix, you’ll find Sub 70 a solid value.

“If you Google ‘Review Sub 70’ or ‘Sub 70 golf reviews,’ you’ll find a lot of positive reviews,” says Hiland. “That really helped. If we didn’t have that, I don’t think we would be as far along in the process of getting our message out there as we are for a small, one-year-old company.”

And since timing is everything, Sub 70 entered the market just as the big OEMs cracked the $500 barrier for drivers and the $1,200 barrier for irons.

“The early adopters were like, ‘I read the review, I like your story. They’d say, ‘You seem honest, you have a 60-day guaranty and I’m having a hard time justifying to the family why I’m spending 12-  to 15-hundred bucks when I can do it for $599.’”

Small is Beautiful

Trying to out-Callaway Callaway or out-TaylorMade TaylorMade is, as a business strategy, extremely stupid if you don’t have Callaway or TaylorMade money. The DTC model banks on brand-weary golfers who are tired of what they perceive as marketing bullshit. It’s for golfers who believe they can get virtually the same performance for a lot less money and who are ballsy enough to make the leap of faith and plunk down cash for the relative unknown. The fact they’re dealing with a small company is a bonus.

“I’m trying to have individual relationships with my customers,” says Hiland. “My phone number is out there everywhere. I want it to be a unique experience where they can talk to the owner and where we can make sure the customer is taken care of. If it’s not perfect, if it’s not exactly how you think it should be, you can call me personally.

“It would drive me nuts if I knew somebody had something they weren’t satisfied with. It would literally drive me crazy.”

That approach is becoming common among the small upstart brands in virtually any industry. It’s a point of differentiation and appeals to the buyer who feels lost or alienated in the modern marketing machine. DTC offers an alternative.

“I think there’s this yearning for authenticity and smallness and craftsmanship,” says Hiland. “It’s not just in golf. Lots of people would rather go to a local restaurant than a chain. Small-branded beers are doing great.”

The thing that ties all this together, of course, is the internet.

“Mark Calcavecchia reached out to me last year to build him some Pro Fairway woods,” says Hiland. “We built him a 3- and a 5-wood and when he put on social media he was going to game them—and we’re not paying him—our phones just blew up. You talk about social media impact—that was huge for us.”

A brand like Sub 70 wouldn’t even have had access to a Calcavecchia five years ago but, as the song says, your old road is rapidly aging. The new paradigm is surely shaking windows and rattling walls but the times might not a-change if the product isn’t any good.

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The China Syndrome

As with virtually every other clubhead in golf, Sub 70’s are made in China. Hiland admits he’s no engineer and has no in-house R&D. Product development, he says, is a team effort with his Asian suppliers.

“We’ll come up with a general idea of what we want and then we rely on them to help us design the guts of it,” he says. “We utilize their engineers to help develop the clubs. I come in and try to make it look sexy but, for lack of a better word, it’s like having on-demand engineers. There’s no way I’m doing that all on my own.”

Hiland has a 25-year relationship with his factories and he owns the designs and molds they jointly develop.

“I don’t go outside my core group,” he says. “They know I’m going to pay the bill and I’m willing to pay the price for quality.”

A common narrative in the golf business is the bigger OEMs—the ones that do their own R&D—tend to be a step or two ahead of the challenger brands when it comes to technology. It’s a narrative that may, in fact, be perpetuated by the big OEMs and their fans.

“We’re not trying to copy what others are doing,” says Hiland. “We’re trying to come up with the best product we can. If you put our 699 iron up against other player’s distance irons, is there a performance difference or does it hold par with pretty much everything else?”

Last year’s Most Wanted indicates there isn’t, and it does. The 699 finished solidly in sixth place overall, ahead of such stalwarts as the Callaway Apex and Rogue Pro, the Titleist AP3 and the PING i500. Top of the line performance? Debatable. A performance-per-dollar value? It’s hard to argue otherwise.

Cycles and Such

Can your brain wrap itself around the notion that an unknown set of irons priced at less than $500 can be on par with or, in some cases, outperform big-name clubs that cost as much as $1,000 more? How about a $249 driver? As riled as we get over mainstream OEM pricing, the idea of equal or better performance at a lower price simply does not compute.

“Every piece of equipment from every major brand is world-class,” admits Hiland. “You really can’t tell the difference. You could take every major driver and put them side-by-side, they’re pretty indistinguishable when it comes to ball speed.”

The brands you know—the mainstream brands—are safe choices. You know what you’re getting and that comfort comes at a premium. The major OEMs are also substantial R&D, sales and marketing machines. You’re paying for that, too, as well as all the effort that goes into sustaining one- to two-year product cycles. DTC companies, whether it’s by choice or necessity, aren’t slaves to a product release calendar.

“Customers trust me to know I’m not going to BS them,” says Hiland. “None of our products are going to be on a tight life cycle. If I can’t make the 699 have better ball speed or be more accurate or just plain better, I’m not going to lie to people and hope they’ll buy it again when it’s not much different. I can’t do that to my customers.”

In addition to Calcavecchia, you will start seeing Sub 70 on the PGA and Korn Ferry tours and has just signed a deal with Tommy Armour III to play Sub 70 on the Champions Tour.

“We’ll be working with Tommy to develop a forged iron,” says Hiland. “He’s now gaming the 639 CB irons but this will be his signature series club. When it’s ready, we’ll sell it in a wooden box with his logo; very boutique-ish, very niche but with a Sub 70 price.”

Is DTC For You?

Asking Alexa to order your basic household supplies is one thing, but golf clubs? For many, that’s a bridge too far. There’s still a sizable portion of the golf buying world that insists on hitting demo clubs into a screen at a retail outlet first. You can’t do that with DTC but they do have demo programs that allow you to try a couple of clubs on your own for a couple of weeks. There’s also the whole fitting challenge, something Hogan has addressed by opening up fitters such as Club Champion. Sub 70 isn’t there yet but they do have an online fitting tool and will build clubs to your specs.

The biggest challenge remains comfort. Make a bad decision buying balls DTC and it’s 30 bucks. A full set of clubs, even at attractive DTC pricing, might still run you $700 to $1,000. That’s where your interactions with the DTC company can make a difference.

“We’re just going to send our message of what we do at Sub 70 out there and try to be as honest as we can about it,” says Hiland. “Hopefully, the interconnected world on the internet will provide reassurance that this is quality, it’s every bit as good and it’s custom-made.

“We try to offer a better value for the customer. We can do it for a much better price because our model is so efficient. It’s not because of the quality of the product; it’s the way we deliver it. We cut a lot of layers out of it.”

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John Barba

John Barba

John Barba

John is an aging, yet avid golfer, writer, 6-point-something handicapper living back home in New England after a 22-year exile in Minnesota. He loves telling stories, writing about golf and golf travel, and enjoys classic golf equipment. “The only thing a golfer needs is more daylight.” - BenHogan

John Barba

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John Barba

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      Tony

      1 year ago

      Having always known about Sub 70 for years, and finding myself interested in giving them a try, but just never pulled the trigger. Because of PXGs “Heroes” pricing, I gave PXG a try in wedges, irons, putter and driver (was fitted for all by PXG), breaking away from OEMs like Titleist, Cobra, Callaway and “tour/player” offerings from Adams before they were bought by Taylor Made. After several years of playing PXG, I was getting ready to buy their Gen 5 Player irons and go through a fitting in Orlando. Again, the PXG Heroes pricing was driving me to stay with them, as OEM pricing is just insane. Then I read My Golf Spy’s testing of hybrids and the fact that Sub 70 caught my eye again. This time I pulled the trigger. I purchased the 699 Pro v2 black irons and the 949X Pro Hybrid (5 hybrid), at hundreds of dollars cheaper than anything I could have done with PXG for the same set-up (with much better shaft options that are actually in-stock with little to no up-charge). I did the online fitting, and it came up with the same metrics in my other in-person fittings. My clubs arrived in just about three weeks. They look amazing, well made, and with the same quality materials as any OEM. Sub 70 included a hat, tees, ball markers, decals, and a $100 gift certificate to an internet golf instruction membership. Where I was disappointed, is that I did not receive a personal note from the Sub 70 clubmaker that built my clubs, nor the owners business card. This is something they advertise that they do with every club order to add the personal touch with those of us who have decided to take a chance on Sub 70. Maybe an oversight (as a friend of mine got a note from his clubmaker for a hybrid he purchased) not getting the personal note, but I did get a envelop with my name handprinted with a card thanking me for my purchase and asking me to post a picture of my 699s on social media. Anyway, I have not gamed the irons just yet, but I have used the 949X Pro Hybrid and it is exactly as advertised! I absolutely love it. I find it extremely easy to hit and a tad bit longer than my current 5 hybrid which I use as my go-to 185-190 yd “money club”. Botton-line, so far I am really happy that I made the move to Sub 70, and I am looking forward to adding more Sub 70 clubs and gear to my bag.

      Reply

      ADK

      4 years ago

      Just finished a 30 minute call with Jason–could not have been more helpful! discussed a variety of options based on mechanics, dimensions, shot shape and shot windows–is building one club–at his suggestion– and will evaluate from there, making any tweaks as necessary–I was a little wary of the “over the phone” fitting”. Having had 20+ fittings in person I can tell you this was more comprehensive than most. I have a soft spot for these kinds of companies–personal service, small business where they take the time to help the customer–cant wait to try it when it arrives.

      Reply

      Jay Sub70

      4 years ago

      Hey Steve thanks for the message. We are actively involved with the design and testing process for each club. We aren’t just stamping our name on random premade heads that are then resold. There have been different iterations of each product with testing and tweaking made with our input. Everything is also assembled and custom built in Sycamore, IL. If you ever have any questions or need anything just let us know. We’re an open book

      Reply

      Charlie James

      4 years ago

      These clubs really caught my eye because the look like golf clubs! No ridiculous color schemes and “lipstick”. Looking at getting rid of my current monstrosities.

      Reply

      Stephen Harte

      4 years ago

      Is there any sign of these been made accessible to European golfers (Ireland) without the big shipping and customs costs in the near future?

      Reply

      Jay Sub70

      4 years ago

      Hopefully our shipping costs aren’t completely terrible…and the cost savings on the clubs themselves still makes it doable. We’ve considered partnering with a European distributor but that would still be quite a ways off for the time being. Thanks for the interest in what we are doing!

      Reply

      Mitch

      4 years ago

      I ordered the Pro 3 wood and wedge late in 2019; can’t say enough good about the 3-wood, been an absolute fairway machine. Really enjoy the looks and responsive feel of the blacked out wedge; seems to be holding it’s finish pretty well too.

      Reply

      Charly

      4 years ago

      Received my set of 639s this week after several phone calls with the owner Jason. Loved the look of the clubs , loved the way they felt but most importantly was great to have such a positive buying experience. Like others have said Jason didn’t try to push any clubs or purchase upon me but guided me through what would be the best fit. As I told Sub70 it was probably the best purchasing process that I’ve come across regardless of industry and they do feel and look like a quality club

      Reply

      Justin

      4 years ago

      This company has had my interest for awhile. I have read many positive comments. The day that this article came out on MGS, I had sent Jason, the CEO of the company, an email stating that I am a teacher and their business hours 9-2 didn’t fit my schedule to discuss what I needed in an iron set. I left Jason my phone number and three hours later, I didn’t receive an email response, I received a phone call. He listened to what my needs as a golfer were. Didn’t push me to something that was more expensive, but suggested what was best for me as a golfer. I look forward to further conversations about what I need when those 699 pros are back in stock. Jason mentioned that he’d call me when they’re available and I have no doubt, from the reviews I’ve read, that this wonderful customer service will continue. I highly suggest giving them a call if you’re on a tight budget, but would like high quality golf equipment. The reviews on social media and right here on MGS speak for themself.

      Reply

      HAC

      4 years ago

      Is it better to save money on clubs by buying DTC clubs like this where you cannot get fit, or buy clubs from a bigger company that are a couple of model years old? These things are widely available. Is it better to get fit for say a Ping G driver or a Taylor Made M-2 or something like that.

      Reply

      Bob Wilkinson

      4 years ago

      Hi,
      I’ve read with interest all the comments above and note that all contributors are in the USA. Are your clubs available elsewhere?
      I’m in Australia.

      Reply

      Jon

      4 years ago

      I’m from canada and I have recently got a set of 699’s. Went to a local club builder to get my spec’s. 60 money back helps with the fear of making a bad buy. After having tried them, they are staying in the bag. It’s a solid brand that does not bs and overhype. MSG most wanted says all you need to know about them

      Reply

      hellomcfly

      4 years ago

      Put me on the waiting list for a LEFTY set of 639 CB (SIX THREE NINE) those bad boys are clean!!!

      Reply

      Braxton Fullerton

      4 years ago

      I’m right there with you. Super excited they’re releasing them sometime this year and definitely want the blacked out version!!

      Reply

      Thilo

      4 years ago

      I respect every attempt to help grow the game, and cheaper but solid golf clubs are certainly important for that. But I have problems seeing any USP for this brand: the clubs are from standard chinese factories, there is no real R&D needed, they have the club models ready, just some branding and colours are needed. The price point is also very weak these days because all big OEMs throw their clubs at you 40% off at the end of the season, I play Mizunos, vokey wedges, odyssey putter, Cobra/Callaway/Taylormade clubs, all at least 30% off. So I payed a sum very close to sub70, but I got a fitting next door, service next door etc. Free quick lie adjustments, free grip change when you buy grips, they even tell me „no dont buy that bag now, it will be 40% off in two weeks“. All that R&D from the big firms, all those discounts even for custom clubs, all that service from local retailers just wanting to make a living and play golf, is all that evil and a corporate machine sucking the life out of us? I do not believe it. If sub 70 would develop and produce in the US, have their own forgery in the rust belt etc. that would be a good story.

      Reply

      Aaron

      4 years ago

      Just curious as to how somebody living on the West Coast goes about getting fitted for Sub70 clubs. A leap of faith or a flight to Illinois?

      Reply

      Braxton Fullerton

      4 years ago

      You can request clubs from their site to try out for a small deposit and then make your choice to buy or not.

      Reply

      Jay Sub70

      4 years ago

      Hey Aaron thanks for the message. The demo program that Braxton mentioned can definitely help. That allows you to test our products for a couple weeks and then send them back. Otherwise you can get fit locally and send us the specs or use a combination of our online static fitting tool and conversations with our owner/CEO Jason to get what you need. If you ever have any questions just let us know

      Reply

      Pete

      4 years ago

      To Sub70:

      Please please please…Whatever you do, please stay active in forums and threads like this. please do not lose this personal touch that most of the big names have done. It’s refreshing and offers the consumer some insight into your care and service.

      Reply

      Jay Sub70

      4 years ago

      We most definitely will. Staying in contact with our customers and just being “available” are huge for us. We’ll always try and keep an eye on any message boards or social media conversations…and people can always contact us through social media, email, text, phone, etc. Thank you!

      Reply

      Jay Sub70

      4 years ago

      Sorry if this is a duplicate post…but we will always do our best to be active and available. It’s really important for us to stay in contact with our customers or anyone else that has questions regarding our company and products. At the end of the day we’re very passionate about golf and love interacting with other golfers. It’s not just about selling a club and moving onto the next one. We hope that our customers feel like we’re there for them and that we’re building something together. We’re always available through social media, message boards, email, text, phone, etc. Thanks for the message!

      Reply

      Johnny Penso

      4 years ago

      *Choose hand*
      *Right*
      *Choose hand*
      *Right*
      *Choose hand*
      *Right*
      *Choose hand*
      *Right*

      ? ? ?

      Reply

      Jason Hiland

      4 years ago

      Left Handed 699 Irons are coming this spring and as we keep growing more options will follow!

      Reply

      Jon

      4 years ago

      I’ve been buying from Diamond Tour since I moved to DeKalb in 2004. Having been a long time customer, I knew about the sub70 brand while they were still in prototype. As soon as I was able, I had Jason fit me for a mixed set of 699 irons and 939 hybrids, along with 3 wedges. A couple months later, I wanted to add 2 more hybrids. Since I work past their normal business hours, Jason dropped them off at my house! By the way, I wonder if they enjoyed the pizza?

      Reply

      Jason Hiland

      4 years ago

      Now i know who dropped that off!!!! We took the crew down to the Forge for pizza and beers! Had a blast! I owe ya 1!!!!!

      Reply

      Danny

      4 years ago

      No love for us lefties, I guess. I tried a few different club choices on the website. The choose “Hand” drop down appears to be a cruel joke.

      Reply

      Brian

      4 years ago

      Late Spring/Early Summer is the estimate they have given for the LH version of the 699 irons.

      Reply

      Jason Hiland

      4 years ago

      We will have left handed 699 irons in later this spring…..!

      Reply

      Bubba

      4 years ago

      Imagine if a golf company ONLY made left handed clubs. There would be outrage!

      Reply

      Steve S

      4 years ago

      I think DTC for clubs has been working for years. But for 5 or 6 hundred bucks I can get a nice 2-3 year old “name brand” used set that fits. I think folks like Gigagolf and Golfworks have been doing this for years without the price tags of Sub70.

      Reply

      TimoTe

      4 years ago

      I am loving my Maltby wedges from Golfworks for less than $60 each with premium shafts.. That’s so low I can get three for the cost of a Vokey

      Reply

      Rob

      4 years ago

      But settling on 2 year old used clubs from one of the “name brands” you are not getting custom fit, you’re buying someone else’s fit, who may have the specs you want, but aren’t fit to you. Kind of a big difference than speaking directly to the owner and having something built specifically for you .

      Reply

      William Johnson

      4 years ago

      As far as DTC goes, beware of dealing with Hogan golf. I liked what I was reading about their irons. I remembered their clubs from the late 60’s and decided to order a set. Whomever answered the phone wanted to take my order but I asked for someone who could answer a couple of questions I had. I told him my age, 80, and my swing speed, mid 70’s with 7 iron. Long story a little shorter, they sent me PTX pro irons. I tried several times to put them in play with the same result. They didn’t work at my swing speed. I called the company back and was told I could trade them in for something else. Feeling it was as much their fault as mine, I was insulted that their response seem to be try again. Anyway I think I will give sub 70 a try as they offer a trail period. Be sure you know your specs before ordering DTC.

      Reply

      Jay Sub70

      4 years ago

      Thanks for the comment William and sorry to hear about your poor DTC experience. Part of the reason we started Sub 70 is so that we can work directly with every single customer which is difficult for most major OEMs. Our CEO Jason speaks with and assists a huge percentage of our customers and we have other customer support staff available to discuss our products and your needs as well. Please feel free to contact us any time. Jason Hiland, our CEO, can always be reached at 815-621-3556 or [email protected] Thanks!

      Reply

      Kc Leonard

      4 years ago

      Not sure if you are aware but Hogan has partnered with Club Champion and you can get fit for the Hogan irons now. Club Champion can even build them to you specs on location.

      Reply

      Joann

      4 years ago

      I have a set of Fort Worth Irons I bought from their site. Love them. What you should of did was demoed their club. They have demo site on their webpage.
      I think they will send you a club for a small fee so you can try out if you don’t have a club champion near you.

      OGWC

      4 years ago

      Yea and if they build them for you, you pay for that on top of the price of the sticks, plus you pay for the fitting.

      DEA Kelly

      4 years ago

      I too went on the Hogan reputation before went bankrupt. Irons/wedges were/are pretty good. Bought some extra wedges they were dumping but had different shafts than ordered or what had originally ought. Said that’s what they used. Not a good shaft for me. All had to be replaced. .When became DTC, bought their driver & fairway woods. Driver had paint scratches & went asked about them was told wouldnt hurt the club. Told them had wrong shafts but said I ordered that way(?), so bought new shafts. Shipped the woods back to them so be factory okay. Were to ship wrong shafts with redone clubs. Didnt. Had to get them to ship new wrong shafts.. Last week pulled shaft to try different model shaft. The Hogan standard shaft was ground down to bout 225 shoved in a hosel with some kinda small shiver in it. It was like they were trying to make it fit. No more Hogan for me.
      Will say, versus OEMs, these smaller companies are saving customers money. OEMs charge full retail (so why bother doing online?). OEMs not competitive any more regardless of AI they might have. Buying 2/3 year old clubs kinda like buying DTC new irons at used club prices.

      Reply

      Ed M.

      4 years ago

      I was fitted for irons by Jason at their facility in Sycamore, IL. As soon as I arrived, Everyone who saw me, introduced themselves to me and made me feel at home. They all knew I was there for a fitting and set me up in their simulator. Before even hitting a ball, Jason and I had a lengthy conversation about my current game and what I was looking to improve about it. I was currently gaming Bigbox Players CB irons and was looking to add more distance in my irons. After hitting a few balls with my irons he was 100% transparent and advised that there was absolutely nothing wrong with my 5 year old set and if I wanted to continue gaming CB irons, to stick with them. Maybe upgrade to a heavier shaft but no point getting new clubs. Then I tested the 699’s and a prototype of the 699 Pro’s (since they were not available yet). The 699’s felt great but had a bit too much offset and after hitting the 699 Pro’s, I was sold. We tested the 699/699 Pro’s tuning in the shaft type, weight, length and lie. We also talked about grips and swung a couple clubs with different grips. At the end of the process I went with the 699 Pro’s but since they were not in yet, he put me on the waitlist and called me as soon as the heads were in. We went through my custom specs over the phone and he even had custom ferrules installed at not charge! 4 days later, I received another phone call to let me know my clubs were ready for pickup. He also added that if at any time in the future, if we need to take a look at the lie angles again and dial those in, just to let him know and they would take care of it.

      The hype is REAL!!! I would highly recommend taking advantage of their $20 Demo Program to see for yourself! The only thig you will regret is that you’ll wish you would have done it sooner! Thank you everyone at Sub70 Golf!

      Reply

      shortside

      4 years ago

      Good looking sticks. Top to bottom. Even the super game improvement 739″s. Carpenter steel face is a plus. These aren’t junk by any definition.

      They’re not too far from me. Have seriously been considering paying Sub 70 and Tour Edge a visit for a fitting when the time comes.

      Only problem is since the Cobra F7 hybrids went in the bag followed by an F8+ driver I developed a Cobra problem I never dreamed I’d have.

      Reply

      Jay Sub70

      4 years ago

      Thanks for the comments…you’re definitely welcome to visit us any time!

      And we have a ton of respect for all of the club manufacturers out there. We actually think it is difficult to find a truly bad product these days. Golf equipment has never been better and if you have something that works then who cares who makes it. We just want to create equipment that performs similarly and allows the customer to have more money for lessons, range time, rounds of golf, golf trips, golf memberships or ANYTHING else even if it’s non-golf related spending. Hopefully we’re successful in doing that and our customers will be happier with how they are spending their time/money

      Reply

      Alex

      4 years ago

      I demo-ed the 699s a few weeks ago while on a weekend getaway to San Diego. The guy I got paired with (a five handicap who was gaming Apex and used to be a + +1) and another guy who worked ine pro shop both loved the look of the irons. I felt like I was an infomercial talking about the company.

      Asking the staff, while the 699s got mentions in Most Wanted Players Distance, the 739s appeared to do fine in the Game Improvement category (about a yard further away from target, but a yard or too longer than the Hot Metal winner. . Can the MGS staff share any thought (tester feedback) s on the 739s? (I found them easier to hit than the 699s in my demo of the 739 last fall) Thanks.

      Reply

      Aart van der Molen

      4 years ago

      If they only focus on Sub70 golfers, it will be a niche market indeed.

      Reply

      Jay Sub70

      4 years ago

      Haha! While there are a number of guys here that are capable of going sub 70 the large majority of us are still dreaming about scores in the 70s and aren’t sniffing the 60s yet. We do have products for all skill levels of golfers though and our 699/699 Pro irons are our best selling products. We definitely want to have something that could appeal to any golfer out there

      Reply

      Nick

      4 years ago

      Sub70 is what the golf industry needs. We all want to “buy local” and support small business. Well these guys are IT. Quality products custom made with great customer service to back it up! Great job to the Sub70 team on staying true to their model but also making top notch products. My 17° Utility Iron was custom made and delivered to my door (With goodies and a hand written not by Jason) within 4 days. Can’t beat it!

      Reply

      Jay Sub70

      4 years ago

      Thanks Nick! Hope you’re enjoying the 699U! If you ever need anything just let us know. Thanks again.

      Reply

      MattF

      4 years ago

      Good story John. I’m a believer in Sub70. I spoke to Jason about a new 3 wood, we worked out what I wanted with the shaft I wanted and I pulled the trigger. I couldn’t be happier with the performance of the 939X and Even Flow Blue shaft. Longer than my previous 3 wood and string straight. They’ll be at the top of my list when I replace my irons.

      Reply

      Robert Hargrove

      4 years ago

      I seriously doubt our game has a market for a discount brand like SUB70. The trend we see is paying more with the assumption we can play better. Golf isn’t a game for many of us, its an obsession. Those of us who drive the market using the top brands are never going to switch to an unknown. Someone like myself who plays over 100 rounds a year would be more likely to get trapped into a custom fitting for PXG’s then a no name company looking to break into the market. Lets face it, we’re locked into the major brands and probably switching every 2-3 years to whats hot looking for clubs to improve instead of lessons. Just saying!

      Reply

      Rob W.

      4 years ago

      Hate to say this Robert, but it sounds like you’ve been brainwashed by years of “play better” false advertising that MGS set out to destroy.
      Not sure why, but Chicago area seems to attract these “no name” companies like Tour edge, Sub70, Bettinardi :-) Maybe it’s in tradition of Northwestern?
      Anyway, Golf is an individual game, so there is no “us” unless you’re playing on the ryder cup or presidents cup team. So go ahead and play what you think gives you the best chance to lower your scores, while I keep my 10 year old cleveland mashie 3 hybrid in my bag, but please refrain from proclaiming what the golf marketplace will and will not support.

      Reply

      Brad

      4 years ago

      The majority of golfers aren’t playing 100+ rounds per year.. My irons? PXG 0311 Ts My wedges? Sub70 raw forged. They have replaced my Vokeys.. There’s plenty of room for Sub 70 in the golf world.

      Reply

      Matt f

      4 years ago

      I just demo’s the 699s and while I love the look I’m not sure I can strike it pure enough just yet. The speed was about 2mph over my game improvement set but I think I have to wait for a breakthrough for a new set. That being said… Those wedges are so sexy and for the price!? What do you think of them? Mine are wearing.

      Alex

      4 years ago

      Matt, I had the same issue. Although it doesn’t have as much ink as the 699s (which is why I asked MGS what the tester feedback on the 739s) , the 739s might be worth a demo.

      fast patriot

      4 years ago

      dear robert, note to self, you can’t buy a game…. ask Adam Scott, using 15 year old irons to win at Riveria….. keep patting yourself on the back for driving the market but it will not improve your game. my bet is you’d be better off with some tour edge iron woods or cleveland hb turbo irons…..

      Reply

      Chris O

      4 years ago

      I got fitted by Jason at Sub 70. They are such an amazing company and Jason is amazing and will drop anything to help anyone. He works with you through the whole process and you can ask him any question you have or any ideas you have for your clubs. Their products are amazing quality and feel great. I love the look of your stuff and you can’t beat the price.

      Reply

      Rob W.

      4 years ago

      I live about 45 minutes from sycamore, and the idea of custom built clubs sounded appealing until I went to the site and priced a 4-aw set with Align grips & steelfiber shafts at $360 upgrade charge.
      At that point I’m better off getting a slightly used set of Apex19 with my specs from CallawayPreowned for much less..
      Too bad. Maybe I will start out with a set of custom wedges.

      Reply

      Jay Sub70

      4 years ago

      Hey Rob thanks for checking us out. The Aerotech shafts will certainly increase the cost quite a bit but they’re a high end graphite upgrade. A new set of major OEMs with those shafts would be significantly more expensive. If you are looking into used options then things will certainly get closer from a pricing perspective. Of course there are other added benefits such as the customer service you receive, etc. Thanks again for the interest though!

      Reply

      Joe

      4 years ago

      So a brand new set of irons with upgraded exotic shafts for under $900 is the tipping point? Any major OEM with a less quality shaft will cost more than that. Do those Apex19 have steel fiber’s in them?

      Reply

      Bruno

      4 years ago

      Hello, DECATHLON, in an other way, makes his own road…..

      Reply

      Mark

      4 years ago

      I am a Sub 70 customer and I am very pleased with the set of irons I bought. They performed just as well as anything else I was demoing at the time and they were several hundred dollars cheaper. Jason was great to work with and he is definitely wants to make sure you’re taken care of. Recently I saw the pro I take lessons from and him look and try my irons and he was very impressed.

      Reply

      Sharkhark

      4 years ago

      So I read your article and just for fun go to look at their website and I click on a model of irons called Sub 70 699 Irons.
      I then want to see what a set would cost and the first drop down menu requires you to pick which hand* and when I click it instead of giving me left hand or right it instead repeatedly opens up a email? To their customer support? I tried several irons the same problem.
      If they can’t even create a working website it gives me pause on their attention to detail..l no retail presence and a website that doesn’t work. Not a good combo.

      Reply

      shortside

      4 years ago

      Must be your computer or device.. Works fine.

      Reply

      AussieRon

      4 years ago

      No problem here either..

      Brian

      4 years ago

      Never had a problem with their website. Including 2 minutes ago when I checked to see if I would have your issue. Worked fine for me.

      Reply

      Jay Sub70

      4 years ago

      Hey thanks for the comment. My name is Jay Armour and I work at Sub 70. As far as we can tell we’re not having any website issues. I tried to replicate that issue without any success and we’ve never heard of anyone having that issue. You can always reach our CEO Jason at 815-621-3556 or [email protected]. Our normal customer service number is 877-267-7093 or [email protected] We’ll try and reproduce that issue so that we can troubleshoot it…but if you ever have any questions please feel free to contact us. Thanks again.

      Reply

      Chris

      4 years ago

      I don’t have the problem at all, everything seems very smooth to me. Try a different browser and see what happens? Seems odd a dropdown menu would open up and email… unless you have seen this on other sites well.

      Reply

      Nick

      4 years ago

      It must be your browser or phone. Mine works fine and has every time I have been on their website. I ordered a 17° Driving Iron last week. Custom made and to my door within 4 days. Can’t beat it! Jason also sends a few goodies in each order along with a hand written note and his business card.! think Sub70 has the details figured out perfectly!

      Reply

      Jason Hiland

      4 years ago

      If you ever need help…..reach out to me personally……815 621 3556 Cell

      I checked on our end….website is working as it should…….

      Reply

      Sharkhark

      4 years ago

      I tried several iron sets they all did the same behavior click the option for right or left hand and your email address opened up in my email as off I was clicking customer service.
      My wife tried on her phone and it did the same thing.
      I posted the problem and now I visit and it works.
      So people can either say it was my phone and my wife’s phone (me Android chrome and her iPhone Safari) …. Or you can believe they read there’s a problem and fixed it.
      Doesn’t matter. I know what it was doing and it’s working now.

      TimoTe

      4 years ago

      How do Maltby Clubs stand up to Sub70? I’m happy to see your approach to customer care that Golfworks seems to lack, at least based on my experience. I game Maltby wedges and driving irons. I use Ping Irons from 2005 that still do the job. I look forward to your response.

      Sharkhark

      4 years ago

      I use an Android phone with chrome and it wasn’t working. It is working now so maybe I found a fault and they fixed it.

      Reply

      PhDawg

      4 years ago

      Appears to be another validation of DTC viability. Your complaint whether founded or not was met with a rapid reply up to and from the ceo. If in fact there was a problem it was addressed AND resolved. Swiftly. That’s good customer service in my book. I imagine the product is going to reflect this level of commitment and look forward to finding out more.

      Joe

      4 years ago

      I have the 639 CB/MB blended set and absolutely love them. Beautiful looking irons in the bag and more importantly, they perform just as well as anything ive played.

      I went from TM p770/750 which were great irons to Sub70. I honestly prefer Sub70

      Are there better irons? Yes, but not $600 better for Mizuno MP20’s.

      Reply

      Ed

      4 years ago

      Joe do your TM P770/750’s need a new bag to call to call home? Btw Jason and his staff are awesome people to talk golf with and get equipment worked on. I visit a couple times a year as they are the only golf retailers around locally.

      Reply

      Joe

      4 years ago

      Ed– haha no I sold the m a long time ago. I played all last year with them. I visited Jason also. I’m in Lemont so it was about an hour and a half driver for me but it was definitely worth going to hit the clubs. Soon as I saw the blades in person I was hooked!

      Customer service is top notch. Its always cool (and rare) to be able to talk to the owner of a company who genuinely cares about making sure youre happy with the product

      Kevin

      4 years ago

      Hi Joe,

      Any follow-up experience/feedback after using the combo 630CB/MB for some time now? I’m also interested to buy.

      What’s your view about durability of the heads, and how do they perform in terms of distance/forgivness vs. the TM P770 you use to play?

      I’m hesitating between CB (4-6) / MB (7-PW) or CB (4-7) / MB (8-PW)… What did you choose?

      Would appreciate your feedback!

      Thanks,
      Kevin

      Reply

      Steve

      4 years ago

      Aren’t they just acting as a middleman for some Chinese company or others abroad?

      Reply

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